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View Full Version : Kyosho Cup Round at TTs- February 2004


West.F1
2003.10.05, 07:47 PM
this has been posted on another thread but to keep it fresh over here, i've decided to post this info again.

KYOSHO CUP RACE
February 21, 2004
Tom Thumb Hobbies
460 Wilson Rd
Columbus, Ohio 43204
Telephone: 614-274-5150


plans are in the works for a bigger track for this event. pics of course will be posted in due time as progress is made at the LHS.

mini-z
2003.10.06, 12:46 PM
Can't wait! :)

West.F1
2003.10.08, 10:36 PM
hey MiniZ,

here's your chance to make up ;) j/k

i plan on running the 02 again on this one and of course the F1

be good that we'll have you around one more time

Draconious
2003.10.08, 11:51 PM
Count me out due to battery control:

Kyosho Power GP800 NiMH Spec AAA is the only rechargeable battery allowed in Open Classes

Stock is Alkaline ;) Umm ok yea I cant wait to pay 40$ for 4 batteries that are only sold at the track... cuz kyosho mini-z batteries are not a US distributed product. They had better GIVE them to the racers...

hehe MR02 is a different class, as is the Overland ;)

MR-01 Stock (for cheapskates I guess?)
MR-01 Open
MR-02 Open
F1 Open
Overland Open

West.F1
2003.10.09, 03:17 PM
aren't the GP800 nimhs the same ones from greenbatteries.com?

if so, the cost is pretty good. For 800s that is.

Draconious
2003.10.09, 05:09 PM
Yea they are the same one, but you gota have the one that actualy says "KYOSHO" on the package...

Only way I will race is if i can use my Rayovac I-C3 cells..

BobT
2003.10.29, 03:56 PM
They must have someone at Kyosho who stays up all night thinking of ways to keep people from racing at their events.

For a half second I thought about trying to make it to this race. Then I read the BS about having to run Kyosho cells.

What a crock!

shwookie
2003.11.01, 10:45 PM
I talked to mike @ TT's today about the kyosho cup. I would love to do it, but it does seem to be such a hassle.

Tom Thumb Hobby
2003.11.05, 11:12 AM
It is unfortunate that confusion about the batteries has led to some of the negative posts on this forum. I spoke to my rep at GP/Kyosho today about the situation. I hope the following will answer some of your questions.

The desicion to mandate Kyosho branded batteries was solely Kyosho's. No shop hosting a race was involved. Do not direct your anger at any of the local shops hosting these events.

HOWEVER, I don't believe anyone need be angry. The purpose in mandating a particular battery is to help level the playing field. Anyone who has raced electric R/C for any length of time knows that batteries can be one of the great determining factors between winners and losers. That is why many 1/10 racers routinely spend $100+ per pack to try and get that extra "edge". Even when batteries are not the difference between first and last they are often blamed for it anyway.

Some have posted that they think this is just another way for the organizers to make money at the expense of the racers. I couldn't disagree more. I, for one, won't make enough profit from selling batteries for this race to buy a tank of gas and lunch :) :) . I doubt even Kyosho will make any major dollars. Batteries are just not a big profit item.

As far as availability, I have been told that sometime around 11/26/2003 they should be shipping. Forget the rumored $40 a package. They will sell for no more than $15 and might even be found for as little as $12.

So, before you make a rash decsion not to attend one of these events, considering this. NO ONE is trying to dig deeper into your wallet. The idea of a mandated battery is not new. Both Tamiya and Trinity have/do use it in their races. The purpose of the mandated battery is to make the races more equal, fair, and fun. And, isn't that why we race Mini-Zs....to have FUN???

I feel that the battery rule will make the racing better. After you try it I think you will agree. I also hope to see many of you at our race in Feb. 2004.It WILL be FUN !

arch2b
2003.11.05, 11:56 AM
take a look in the few shops that do have them.....they are atleast $17 and sometimes more. i'm sure you will find them for about $12 from the asian shops but that doesn't include shipping.
they are and likely will remain more expensive than almost all other brands as kyosho's parts are typically not cheap. this will not stop me from participating as i have already made requests for them to the shop. it's just frustrating more than anything else and many members are venting that frustration....

West.F1
2003.11.05, 12:13 PM
yeah, it won't stop me from participating either.

i just hope the schedule will allow me to use one set for multiple classes;)

Tom Thumb Hobby
2003.11.05, 12:18 PM
Actually Arch2B, the $15 is Kyosho USA suggested retail and I expect to be able to sell them for bewtween $12 and $13. Not as cheap as some but still not a bad deal. No Asian shipping to pay either.:D :D

I do understand the frustration, but all things considered, the battery rules should make for a better and more equal race series. I have raced 1/10 elec for years and if all it would have cost me is an extra $2 to $3 per pack to make sure that the "other guy" didn't have a special "unobtanium" battery I would have gladly paid.

The popularity of Mini-Z is exploding and along with it will come a proportional increase in the technology adapted to the cars. I would not be surprised if someone isn't already trying "voltage enhancing" (VIS ala Trinity) or at the very least matching these little AAA's. As racing becomes more competitve the more the little things make a difference. I think Kyosho is trying to keep things equal for everyone.

Draconious
2003.11.05, 04:29 PM
None of my blame or anger was directed toward the race facility... it was 100% at Kyosho...

My $40 price. which was a humorous exageration in a live chat, was not nessessarily for one set, and was including shipping from japan/hK... since at the time that was the only place to get them... Its listed in the Kyosho Mini-Z manuals as a JAPAN ONLY product... they dont even translate it.

I still will not bother racing cuz I do not wish to pay for Kyosho Batteries... id obviously need more than just 2 or 3 sets... so you wind up paying around $40, any way... I ve already spent over $100 on cells I want to use what I already bought...

The Kyosho Cells better be GOOD cells, rumor is they suck, if they are extra cheap, or some are made in china, and some are made in japan, some one is going to wind up with bad cells, and good cells any way......... it realy dont make a difference, they only reason they insist on using the Kyosho cells, is cuz the money goes in Kyoshos pocket for the sales... --- if this is not why they are doing it, then give all racers 4 sets of Kyosho cells with their ENTRY fee.... will they (kyosho, not the race host) do this? Doubt it...

Also, If they did not want to make more money, why not make a small list of "other"acceptable parts and batteries?

Since I like to group buy things to make my cost liter on things, I would group buy the kyosho batteries, but that would just be a direct conflict with davids shop here, so I likely wont bother...

Has any one put a set of 4 AAA Kyosho Mini-Z cells in a Rayovac PS4 charger yet? -- if they vent charing in this charger then they are likely crap cells... no better then generic green cells with a kyosho label on them... who knows I dont doubt some one out there is trying to buy just the labels... sot hey can shrink wrap their favorite cell with a kyosho label.. LOL...

Also, If they did not want to make more money, why not make a small list of "other"acceptable parts and batteries?

Since I like to group buy things to make my cost liter on things, I would group buy the kyosho batteries, but that would just be a direct conflict with davids shop here, so I likely wont bother...

Has any one put a set of 4 AAA Kyosho Mini-Z cells in a Rayovac PS4 charger yet? -- if they vent charing in this charger then they are likely crap cells... no better then generic green cells with a kyosho label on them... who knows I dont doubt some one out there is trying to buy just the labels... sot hey can shrink wrap their favorite cell with a kyosho label.. LOL...

Tom Thumb Hobby
2003.11.05, 09:29 PM
Drac,
I never said Kyosho wasn't trying to make money. They obviously hope to capitalize on the publicity and increase the exposure of Mini-Z's which will equate to more money for them. This will eventually benifit all manufacturers of Mini-Z parts. You don't have to be a business major to know that the more people who own Mini-Zs the more people who will want to "hop-up" their Mini-Z. I just don't think the battery rule is a "money grabbing ploy" on their part. I do think they expect some kind of return on their investment of time and money. Is that a bad thing? The profit they might make on increased battery sales for these races will be microscopic when compared to the global sales of their other products.

I have no idea of the quality of these batteries. I think it is too early to speculate until several racers have given them a fair test. However, good or bad, at least everyone will have the same advantage (or disadvantage). I have been told that they are manufactured by GP. At the risk of starting my own unfounded rumor, if they are similar in quality to the GP sub-C cells used in 1/10 R/C racing they should be very good batteries. GP batteries are some of the best in larger R/C racing. But the only right way is to wait before we pass judgement.

BTW..the comment about trying to find heatshrink to re-label batteries...don't laugh, its happened in 1/12 onroad.

wcrotty
2003.11.25, 10:02 AM
Draconious,

I for one think this is a good rule. At the mini Z nats
most everyone should be the same speed and driving
should be the factor. When someone is twice as
fast as everyone else there is a problem. With the
right contacts you can get packs hand made for you.
So it's not just get a bunch of cells and match them.
No one else can get the cells.
Kyosho saw the problem and now is fixing it with this rule.
I will buy one set for each open class i'm going to run.

In the box stock class everyone was equal speed
wise and it came down to carrying the speed in the
corners by driving skill.

The Mini Z cup is a great event and Kyosho is doing
a great job with it.

I wish i could come out for your event.

Bill

arch2b
2004.02.06, 08:09 AM
mike (tom thumb)- can you give us some pre race registration numbers, like how many for each class?

i think i read deadline for registration is this weekend? is this true? if so, why? stampy's was taking registrations up to about an hour before the races were scheduled to begin

also, can you post track pictures as soon as it's up?

latency
2004.02.06, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by arch2b
mike (tom thumb)- can you give us some pre race registration numbers, like how many for each class?

i think i read deadline for registration is this weekend? is this true? if so, why? stampy's was taking registrations up to about an hour before the races were scheduled to begin

also, can you post track pictures as soon as it's up?

Hey arch,

Obviously I am not Mike, but I may be able to help with some of your questions. :)

In talking with Mike the other day, I think he said if he had to ballpark it, he was around 50 registation sheets. Now, some of those registrations, are like mine, where I registered for 3 classes. Weds he had 11 registrations alone. :) I am not sure on each class...

Not sure on the deadline, I was just looking at the Kyosho site, and they request they are in 2 weeks in advance for the tshirts, but do not list a hard deadline.

For the track, I am going to the shop tonight to lay it out. I will have pics of it tomorrow and then I will be able to post them for you. I forgot my camera today, and will be leaving straight from here to go build it. I know Mike got the track on Weds, and got a TON of boxes for it...so, we should have a good layout. :)

You need to come out for this event Arch... ;)

arch2b
2004.02.06, 10:04 AM
i'm seriously considering it as the wife gave the ok, it's just a LONG car ride... which also would require an overnight stay as there is no way to make it a day trip.

i'm even contemplating entering the overland race but my lack of skills are a serious deterent. either way i'd most enjoy meeting more of the mzr gang and watch some more racing;)

latency
2004.02.06, 11:29 AM
I took Friday as a vacation day that weekend so that way I can help Mike finalize his setup for Saturday.

He will have the track up on Friday, so if you come up, come early and get the practice time!

I know you have an RCP track at home as well, so practice up on that. None of us have driven the RCP yet, so you have the leg up there. :)

arch2b
2004.02.06, 11:53 AM
while i have a large rcp track, it's located at my parents which is 60 miles away as they have the only space large enough for it. so i get to visit it about twice a month. so far i think i have about 10-15 hours of track time on it which is much less than i'd like but i can't drag the family up there every weekend;) my little brother and cousin on the other hand have all the time he wants with the track.

i can tell you now, those that think they can ride the rails and still keep up are in for a surprise. it will do alot in seperating the chaff from the wheat so to speak. i think the skilled drivers will have to worry more about traffic than the rails.

overall, the more you run on an rcp track the better skills you will develope or they have to develope if you want to improve your times/laps. i can think of nothing else that forces better driving or the attempt at better drivng than the rcp track. not to metnion you won't have the chipped/scrapped/filed down body corners as happens with wood rails. i think once you get to run a few laps (hit a few corners), you'll love it.

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.06, 09:06 PM
Arch2b,
So far we have 39 entries with around 15 more commited but not registered. Unfortunately the confusion over batteries has caused a few to tell me they are considering withdrawing. The "spec" battery was a good idea, in my opinion, but since Kyosho could not supply batteries I felt it was unfair to enforce the rule. I appologize to those who feel cheated because they already bought Kyosho batteries so they could enter this race. The supply problem was not in my control and only came to my attention about 2 weeks ago.

We listed the deadline as 2 weeks before race day because that is what Kyosho printed on the entry forms. I think they wanted the 14 days to prepare prizes and t-shirts to match the number of entries. If you missed the deadline...don't worry....we will take entries up until the green flag drops (well, almost:D )

Several weeks ago I posted a list of hotels here:
http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11711

The hotel on Wilson Rd is about 2 minutes away. The others are all in a cluster about 5 minutes away and are all fairly new.

Glad to here you might be coming. We are going to have a GREAT time.:) :) :)

arch2b
2004.02.06, 10:45 PM
mike- do you have a preliminary breakdown on enries per class?

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.06, 10:54 PM
MR-01 Stock - 11
MR-01 Open - 11
MR-02 Open - 8
F1 Open - 6
Overland - 3

Several local racers have not yet entered. More Overlands are expected.

arch2b
2004.02.06, 10:57 PM
i will probably register for the overland open.... i don't know if i want to race or spectate though;)

stampy's had 24+/- mr-01 stock entries:eek:

wcrotty
2004.02.07, 10:01 PM
Tom Thumb hobbys,

What are the rules going to be for batteries at your race?

thanks

Bill

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.07, 10:29 PM
When we were told that Kyosho could not supply their batteries (less than 2 weeks ago) we were asked to buy "regular GP 800s" (the same as the Kyosho marked batteries) and put our name on them. These would then become the only other battery legal for our race other than the few Kyosho batteries that were sold. This was not a workable solution for us because there would be no time for the racers, especially those coming from out of state, to cycle the batteries and make them "raceable' (is that a word?:) )

Even though I STRONGLY support the spec battery idea because it goes along way towards leveling the playing field in Mini-Z, or any other electric R/C racing, it will only work if the designated battery is widely available.

So, for our Cup event we have decided that any 1.2 volt rechargeable NiMH AAA battery will be legal. Hopefully no one will show up with any "Thermo-Nuc Unobtanium" AAA's and violate the very spirit of the event....that if you win it's because of skill and not a bigger wallet.

arch2b
2004.02.08, 09:13 AM
did you guys have fun setting up the track? once you get the side rails attached wth the pins, it moves alot faster. i must have spent an hour just putting all the pins in on my track;)

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.08, 10:29 AM
Those pins can be a real pain in the %^$%. BUT, I think you will agree that the effort is definetly worth it. RCP is a great track.

BTW. I think they are working on a new, easier to install pin to mount the side rails.

RCPMini-z
2004.02.08, 10:44 AM
For those who wish to take the rails off during storage, this is the new design. It will be supplied with all the new tracks currently coming from our factory. If people want to replace their current PINS with the new design, we will have them available. There will not be a charge for those that would like to replace their current set.

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.08, 11:31 AM
OK. It is already the BEST MINI-Z TRACK there is. Now, with customer support like this, what are you waiting for? Get a RCP track for your racing.

arch2b
2004.02.08, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by RCPMini-z
For those who wish to take the rails off during storage, this is the new design. It will be supplied with all the new tracks currently coming from our factory. If people want to replace their current PINS with the new design, we will have them available. There will not be a charge for those that would like to replace their current set.

how do we go about having them replaced? i don't expect to take mine apart too much but the one taht was sent with the wide oval was MUCH easier to install.

West.F1
2004.02.08, 11:40 AM
the rails are definately an issue for those who've raced on the track. Getting stopped on a dime or bumped into oncoming traffic were the main things encountered. These aren't necessarily bad things however. Just something we need to get used to since we've never really encountered them on the old track using pvc's. i think over time, experience on track and therefore improved driving skills will lead to less frustrations.

the overall consensus i think was positive with the debut of this track. The surface lent to higher grip compared to the ozite carpet and so with the right tire set up the F1s and sedans could drive like they are on rails. Good stuff.

arch2b
2004.02.08, 01:44 PM
RCPMini-z- i hate to nag but could you repost this in the rcp faq? that is the beast place to post this info as few will be looking here for it;)

latency
2004.02.08, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by West.F1
the rails are definately an issue for those who've raced on the track. Getting stopped on a dime or bumped into oncoming traffic were the main things encountered. These aren't necessarily bad things however. Just something we need to get used to since we've never really encountered them on the old track using pvc's. i think over time, experience on track and therefore improved driving skills will lead to less frustrations.




Yeah, the rails are the best part of this track in my opinion. These rails quickly let the folks who ride the pvc know they ride it. Also, in MR-02 racing, I actually liked the bounce back action, as the 02's can sometimes be tricky to get in reverse. The bounce kinda helps with that.

The track is a VERY fast track. All it takes is one small bobble or mistake and someone can go a lap down. I LOVE THESE TRACKS. By far the best surface I have run on.

Also, as I setup for all of the races and tear down all our races, the tear down took us all of 2 minutes, where the tear down of PVC and carpet took me at least 20. That is another huge plus.

techno
2004.02.17, 06:39 AM
You know I must have missed it when do the races start. I am planning on heading up Saturday and I have no clue on how to get there and what time to leave from here im just north of Cincinnati

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.17, 08:09 AM
Techno, we will be opening at 8:00am and the 1 hour practice period will start at 9:00am. We plan to have a drivers meeting at 10:15am with the racing to start soon after.

West.F1
2004.02.17, 08:55 AM
we will be opening at 8:00am and the 1 hour practice period will start at 9:00am


thanks for the preliminary schedule mike, what is allowed from
8-9 a.m btw? i was planning on getting there early



I have no clue on how to get there and what time to leave from here im just north of Cincinnati


welcome techno. contact mike for directions.

TTs address is 460 Wilson Rd, columbus, 43204
(for mapquest or yahoo maps) (614) 274-5150

BobT
2004.02.17, 09:05 AM
Can we sign up for this race the day of the race?
I am inquiring for a friend.

Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.17, 09:06 AM
The hour between opening and the start of practice will allow racers to setup their pits etc. and me to do a final check of the track and counting equipment. It will also allow me to organize the practice period. It will be a controlled practice session, meaning racers will practice in posted groups for a maximum amount of time then others will be rotated in. This way everyone will get equal practice time and, if they want, we will also check to be sure their transponder is working. The track will NOT be open between 8:00 and 9:00.

Entries will be taken until 10:00am. After that it will be too difficult to add anyone into the computer. Late entries may not receive a t-shirt however. Kyosho is bring extra but they may not have your size. NOTICE. You must be entered to practice during Saturdays session. Anyone can practice during Fridays open session.

arch2b
2004.02.17, 09:13 AM
wow, it looks like there will be alot of forum members there sat;)

i will likely be registering fri or sat...i'm a last minute kinda person most of the times.

mike- you will have amb connectors right? i -plan to get my brother's ol back up and running and will need to wire in one for him.

teching- i've had to resolder MANY wire connections on my brother's ol, will this be a problem?
i need to glue my x5 body where it cracked, what glue will hold best?

herman
2004.02.18, 12:27 AM
what's the count? what's the count? how many have registered thus far????

good luck to all racers... run clean, and most important... have fun... :D

latency
2004.02.18, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by herman
what's the count? what's the count? how many have registered thus far????

good luck to all racers... run clean, and most important... have fun... :D


Here are the numbers from the other thread that Mike posted up:

The class breakdown as of 2/14;

01 Stock - 17, 01 Open - 12, 02 Open - 14, F1 Open - 10, Overland - 9 [/B]

Mike mentioned he has received more entries since then, so those numbers should be a bit higher now too. :)

latency
2004.02.18, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by arch2b
wow, it looks like there will be alot of forum members there sat;)

mike- you will have amb connectors right? i -plan to get my brother's ol back up and running and will need to wire in one for him.

i need to glue my x5 body where it cracked, what glue will hold best?

Should be a good time! :)

Mike does have the AMB connections (the futaba plugs). Last I checked he had a load of them too. :)

When I cracked my x5, I used 2 glues and it seems to have held so far. On the ouside I used regular super glue. On the inside I then used "goop". Goop is nice because it holds well, and is flexible, not brittle. After doing that, the front end has stayed together for me. :)

arch2b
2004.02.19, 06:39 PM
see you guys tomorrow night for practice;)

when exactly are the practice hours friday?

West.F1
2004.02.19, 06:47 PM
when exactly are the practice hours friday?

store hrs are 12-8pm. If i'm not mistaken we'll be able to use the track for the entire duration. Latency, myself and john plan to be there at 12noon and stay till ??

not sure of the others but i expect the track will be busy for most of the afternoon

arch2b
2004.02.19, 07:04 PM
i'll likely get there about 5-6pm if i drive striaght and quickly;)

arch2b
2004.02.19, 09:18 PM
i forgot to mention something else.... do something to make your tx easliy distinguishable so when you go to pick it up from the teching table you know which one to get. it was a little tricky at stampys due to most of them being stock...

i learned my lesson and painted them;)

see me (http://mini-zracer.com/gallery/album58/IMG_0427)

latency
2004.02.19, 10:01 PM
Good tip,

Wont have time to paint them, will just slap some vinyl on them.

As West mentioned, he, John, Mickey and I are planning to be there as close to noon as possible. Mickey maybe later.

I plan on staying all day for the most part, right now I am sort of planning on staying till close. But we will see how tired I get. :)

See you guys tomorrow. :)

herman
2004.02.19, 11:45 PM
for a guy in a team mclaren outfit.... glad to hear you got it...
seems like all systems go for team mclaren.... recer's ready????

once again don't forget to post them pics and articles.... at least i'll hopefully get to know the faces behind the names, even though they're half a world apart... :D

if i drive striaght and quickly - arch

drive safely dude...


good luck and happy racing!!!!!

BobT
2004.02.20, 08:39 AM
Drive safely to the track.

Drive like a mad-man at the track.

Drive home safely.

latency
2004.02.20, 10:07 AM
Track opens in 56 minutes.

Be sure to check back late tonight, I should have pics of the afternoon up this evening.

mini-z
2004.02.21, 08:11 AM
I'm leaving now. Roads are a little icy here, hope it's better down there! :)

techno
2004.02.21, 11:02 PM
I have to say it was my first event and it was great I had a blast. Beware next time we meet Iíll be more prepared so be ready!:p
Met lots of great people there thanks again to Tom Thumb hobbies for sponsoring this

arch2b
2004.02.22, 01:09 AM
it's about 2am and i'm just getting home:( the drive was miserable up and back. pooring rain up and blizard snow on the way back... it was well worth the 14 hours in a car total

i want to first thank mike (tom thumb) for hosting the event and pulling it off without a hitch:D i think there was one instance of missed lap counts but other than that i saw no problems and if there were, you never knew;) i didn't get a chance to say goodbye or thank you mike...so please accept my thanks here!

i apologize for not making friday practice...one wrong turn and you off by about 100 miles:rolleyes:

sorry for not hanging out and chatting at the end too...it was fun to run the monsters though;)

i'll post more about how my brother, cousin and myself did after a good 8 hours of sleep! i will not be posting an article however as some of the locals will be doning so and will be able to give the event and racers much better coverage than i could.

thanks also to mini-z for making the trip even though he couldn't race...it was a pleasure to finally meet you.

thanks to all the friendly locals for the help anf the many forum members as well. i have a new found respect for many after witnesssing their skills:cool: even those that didn't do so well (techno, joking), had a good time and that's the most important thing. seriously don't be too hard on yourself...it was only me 2nd competitive race and your 1st

oh, and i DO NOT recomenned the econo lodge just down the street:mad: