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View Full Version : Results - Cup race at Tom Thumb Hobbies


Tom Thumb Hobby
2004.02.23, 07:18 PM
First I want to thank everyone who attended our race. Weather problems, health issues, and even plane reservation snafus held the entries to just under 60. I hope that all who came had a good time. I know we worked VERY hard to make this race as mistake free and fun as possible. I want to think we succeded.

I want to apologize to anyone who's name I mis-pronounced (or forgot) while race directing:( . I was trying to hit a happy medium between too much talk and not enough info during the heats. That combined with some AWESOME racing distracted me from time to time and I mangled some of your names. SORRY.

The level of competition was excellent. Shannon and Nic from Wyoming certainly showed that they are NOT novices with Mini-Zs. They knew the fast way around the track and the amount of awards they took home with them proves it. But, our local racers are no amateurs either. Kyle, John, Mark, Abe, Mickey, Dustin, and Nick all took home at least 1 trophy. Even some who didn't stand on the podium were also winners. Forum members Techno and Arch2B didn't manage to win any trophies but they seemed to be having a good time. That is the most important thing.:) :) :)

Race directing 35 heats over a 10 hour period didn't leave me any time to meet and talk with many of you. I regret that. I was looking forward to talking "Z" with you. Maybe next time.:)

I did manage to catch a moment between Luke R, a seven year old "mini" Mini-Z racer and someone talking to him -trying to get him to make a driving adjustment. Luke is standing there between 2 other drivers who are easyly twice his size and driving his heart out, calmly says"Look, I am a little busy right now. OK":D :D

For those interested in the details the following links will tell you all you want to know:


Final Results (http://www.tomthumbhobbies.com/reports/final.htm)

Detailed Results of all Heats and Mains (http://www.tomthumbhobbies.com/reports/detailed.htm)

Results for each Racer (http://www.tomthumbhobbies.com/reports/racer.htm)

Lastly, I want to thank my daughter Jessica for all her help. She worked hard all month to help me get ready and especially hard on raceday. She even covered the "Trophy Girl" position ( NO BIKINI :D :D )

arch2b
2004.02.23, 07:28 PM
thanks for the results mike;)

and here i thought i was 4th in the b main and i actually finished 3rd:cool:

i posted my many thanks in the other "tracks" thread..

latency
2004.02.23, 08:56 PM
Mike,

Can't say thanks enough. You ran an amazing race that was both on schedule to the minute and very very fun. I know getting the opportunity to host the Cup at Tom Thumbs was important to you (and all of us) and you did not disappoint.

In the last year alone, you have done quite a bit to increase the interest in the Mini-Z scene here in Columbus. From buying the timing system to considering the RCP tracks for our long term race course, you give us a place to race and just work on our skills. Each week we seem to get at least one new racer, and hopefully the club continues to grow.

I know I had the best time with the Z's at the Cup race. Managing all the heats, frequencies and transponders numbers is far from easy, and I have to say that went flawless.

Thanks to you, Jess and Mack for allowing us to take over for the day, and pack the house with some small scale RC racing! :)

herman
2004.02.24, 02:29 AM
from what i've read, looks like you guys had real fun... :D

the results seem quite interesting...

comparing the fastest lap times (except the overlands)...

stock mr01 - 8.9 mickey combs
open mr01 - 8.6 mickey combs
f1 open - 8.1 dustin richards (turned in at least two laps of 8.1)
open mr02 - 8.5 mark saunders

pretty close eh?... i may stand corrected though... it took a while looking through all those lap times...

another thing to consider...

ave lap times in the mains...

mr01 stock........ mr01 open..... mr02 open..... f1 open
10.525 ............. 9.616 ........... 9.795.............9.284
10.522.............. 9.745 ...........10.100.............9.611
10.556..............10.131 ...........10.309...........10.064

interesting to see that the top 2 mr01 open ave lap times are slightly faster than the top mr02... so does this mean that the mr01's are faster??? can't really come to a conclusion... but here's my theory... maybe they are too fast too handle... and being faster invites more errors... just a theory as i said...

f-1's were faster overall (as i suspected) but doesn't this just disspell my theory???

any insights from the others?

rckid1
2004.02.24, 06:00 AM
awesome job mike:) :) :) :) :)

herman
2004.02.24, 10:53 AM
hmm i got another theory... on mr01 / mr02 / f-1... ave lap times...

overall... i think the f-1 handles a lot better given its current setup compared to the mr02/mr01...

does anybody think that a bigger spur gear has anything to do with it? (45t compared to 44t and 42t in the mr02 mr01 - gear ratio 5 vs. 4.78 vs. 4.67)

arch2b
2004.02.24, 11:03 AM
i can tell you it had alot to do with the f1's staying off the rails more than any other class;) the gearing may contribute but i can not comment either way on that theory....

Wyo-Mini-Z
2004.02.24, 07:27 PM
Mike,

Thank you for letting the hicks from Wyoming run at your qualifier. We had a great time. You ran the races in a very smooth and professional manner.

Great overview of the races. Iím using the race results you posted in our clubs newsletter.

By the way Kyosho has placed some good pictures on their site http://www.kyosho.com/events/mini-z-cup2004-results.html

Thanks Again,

latency
2004.02.24, 08:37 PM
Hey, good find Shannon!

Alex got some cool action shots in there! Hopefully you guys had a smooth trip home, see you guys in April.

:)

triumph
2004.02.24, 11:26 PM
Many thanks Mike,

You and your help put on an excellent K-Cup racing event. I had a blast racing against the best. Also, great job on getting the results posted so quickly. See you on the track.

Andy

West.F1
2004.02.26, 09:42 PM
alright. Herman brought up an interesting point when comparing the three fastest chassis represented in the cup race. When it comes to stats we must be careful in how we intepret the data when deciding which chassis is indeed 'the fastest'. I've always been a firm believer that given the same motor and circuit, the F1 is clearly the best when it comes to overall speed due to it's design. Next the mr02 and then the mr01.

i've had a chance to peruse thru the numbers this evening and confirmed this from a different method than what herman did.
Instead of comparing the fastest laps from different drivers i decided to focus on one driver to see how he did in different classes. By focusing on a single driver,our attention is solely directed toward the car/chassis' performance since only one driver's skill (vs multiple) is focused on.

Below i've compiled the total laps of Nick Watts who not only is a very good driver but he happened to enter the mr01 open, mr02 open and F1 open classes. All three cars of course have the same powertrain - the xspeed motor and all three were put under the same circumstance- a full race situation on the same track. Since the data was not from any experiment but rather an actual race, it can be assumed that nick gave his all in putting out the fastest laps possible in each class. Unaffected by any bias.

Here are Nick's total lap numbers:

mr01 open
41, 40, 41. average 40.6

mr02
45, 43, 40. average 42.6

mzF1 open
43, 45, 46 average 44.6


the first three numbers reflect total laps from the first and second qualifying heats and then the A main. Each heat being 7 minutes ( ie 7-7-7) The 'average' at the end is the total of these 3 numbers divided by 3. Using the same person driving on the same course with the same amount of time, we can now see what the chassis is capable of in a race situation. As we can see here, his average increased by 2 laps going from mr01, to mr02 to F1. Keep in mind the amount of traffic stayed the same for nick.. 4 cars in the qualif and 6 in the A-main.

so in conclusion, i hope this helps clear the air a bit on this issue. I know i got a little long winded on this but my nerdish scientific mind just had to show what i've come to believe all along. So when you're asked 'which is faster?'
, you'll at least have somewhat of an idea what to say.


thanks for your time.

latency
2004.02.27, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by West.F1
So when you're asked 'which is faster?'
, you'll at least have somewhat of an idea what to say.

MR-01 right? ;)

Seriously though, nice comparison. Cool to see how each chassis fairs.

herman
2004.02.27, 12:00 PM
hmm...

i've compiled some race data... (attached on a zipped .xls file)

and compared some drivers who participated in more than 2 classes...

assumption.... i've compared average lap times and not laps done in the alloted time... (simply because if two cars in different classes finish the same number of laps, which one would you say is faster?) besides not all cars stop at 7 minutes, as i assume they let you finish your lap right?

case in point: mr nick watts 2 heat ave laps for f1 open and mr02 open both ave 44 laps over 2 heats... so which is faster?... looking at the ave lap times it was found out that the mr02 produced a lower ave lap time vs. the f1 (9.71 sec. vs. 9.73 sec)
now which is faster?

it's quite interesting to note...

that 4 out of 5 racers drove their mr02 (open) faster than their mr01 (open)... exception goes to shannon watts who ave lap time for his mr01 was 9.67sec vs his ave lap time for his mr02 9.87sec

that 3 out of 3 racers naturally drove their f1's (open) faster than their mr01's (open)

that 2 out of 4 racers had lower ave lap times for their mr02 (open) vs their f1 open.... mark saunders (mro2 10.05sec vs. f1 10.54sec) and jason vicars (mr02 11.04sec vs. f1 11.98sec)

and obviously the mr01 open ran faster than the mr01 stock...

over all i guess the data and sample size seems a bit small to come to any conclusions just yet...

but one theory might be that different racers have different driving styles and thus may favor a particular class over another...

apologize for the long thread... :D


oh my gosh, i can't believe i did that table...
i guess you all can call me a geek now....

herman
2004.02.27, 12:02 PM
those watts brothers must be something....

they should come out with a t shirt or something saying...

waaaatttttttssss up?

or

danger 2,000 watts

congratulations guys... and congratulations to all who participated... :D

West.F1
2004.02.27, 12:31 PM
and compared some drivers who participated in more than 2 classes...


hey you beat me to it:D My next step was to study numbers of other drivers ( besides nick ) to see if they had the same trends in multiple classes. good data though. Looks like we both like studying the numbers. Now if we can just get sector times...



As for the Watts brothers, they were definately a class act. An outstanding pair that set the bar high for all of us. John and Latency however did have top podium finishes in their respective classes so not too shabby there either.

latency
2004.02.27, 01:00 PM
Cool Deal Herman! VERY nice spreadsheet. It was cool to check out the detailed averages.

We need you to move to Ohio, and can manage all the race data for our club races too!! ;)

Wyo-Mini-Z
2004.02.27, 02:32 PM
Thanks for all the compliments guys! Iím not letting it go to my head.

Hereís one thing to consider. My brother and I have more experience with the MRO1 and F-1. Weíre still trying to find good setups for the MRO2. I feel the MRO2 is much faster. However I had problems pushing through the corners. This made my line way to wide. If I could have gotten my MRO2 to corner like the other cars, Iím sure my MRO2 would have had a couple more laps per race.

Herman,
I kinda like the T-Shirt idea.
:)

herman
2004.02.27, 08:25 PM
hey shannon...

too bad there isn't an open unrestricted class... if there were, well check out this ride... (i just know west will just love the c5r)

http://minizracer.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12238

We need you to move to Ohio, and can manage all the race data for our club races too!!

send me a ticket and i'll be on the plane first thing tomorrow...:D

I kinda like the T-Shirt idea.

i think this calls for a watts (fan club) t-shirt design contest....
any sponsors?

herman
2004.02.27, 08:34 PM
However I had problems pushing through the corners. This made my line way to wide.

hmm... ok at least we know it's a set up problem... as i myself also feel that the mr02's are faster...

what tires did you use? i guess it would handle better with softer fronts? and softer front springs...

watt was nick's set up like??

or are you guys kinda touchy feely on the set up thing???? don't worry we will understand... just don't wonder why somebody might take you out in the first turn... j/k

but on a serious note, were there any rough racers out there?... i kinda know it isn't actually the sportsmanly thing to do though...

and what types of casualties were there? like were there any brocken h bars, servo gears, body mirrors... etc....

herman
2004.02.27, 08:37 PM
I kinda like the T-Shirt idea.

was just thinking.... i get to keep 5% right???

Wyo-Mini-Z
2004.02.27, 11:34 PM
We ran cars with the rear motor mount. I think this might be part of the problem. So far only the mid mount cars have won the qualifiers. I did run red springs and 10 degree tires up front and 15 degree tires in the rear. Nic's setup was similar.

5% sound good on the T-Shirt deal.

West.F1
2004.02.27, 11:51 PM
(i just know west will just love the c5r)


http://minizracer.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=113173

first time seeing this actually:D very impressive work

herman
2004.02.28, 05:01 AM
. I did run red springs and 10 degree tires up front and 15 degree tires in the rear. Nic's setup was similar.
that's odd... i thought softer tires should go in the back... harder up front... did anybody traction roll a mr02?

Wyo-Mini-Z
2004.02.28, 10:59 AM
If anyone traction rolled it was rare. I went with softer tires up front to help with the pushing issue. It did help.

mini-z
2004.02.29, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by latency
Cool Deal Herman! VERY nice spreadsheet. It was cool to check out the detailed averages.

We need you to move to Ohio, and can manage all the race data for our club races too!! ;)

OT: K, did you get my email, I didn't get a reply? :confused: Just wanted to make sure you posted a link to all those great pics!

latency
2004.02.29, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by mini-z
OT: K, did you get my email, I didn't get a reply? :confused: Just wanted to make sure you posted a link to all those great pics!

Uggh...no, and you know what, it is my darn Spam filters gone amuck. :|

Sorry Z, here they are: if you would like the full size images let me know, I could burn them for you or something...around 600mb in all. :)

http://www.latencyproject.com/miniz/cuprace/webpost/index.htm

Sorry about that. :(

mini-z
2004.03.01, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by latency
Uggh...no, and you know what, it is my darn Spam filters gone amuck. :|

Sorry Z, here they are: if you would like the full size images let me know, I could burn them for you or something...around 600mb in all. :)

http://www.latencyproject.com/miniz/cuprace/webpost/index.htm

Sorry about that. :(

Oh! Does that mean you didn't get my pre-race good luck and H-plate messages either? :confused: A CD would be great if easy! :)

arch2b
2004.03.01, 01:58 PM
mini-z- what about your video and pictures?

latency
2004.03.01, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by mini-z
Oh! Does that mean you didn't get my pre-race good luck and H-plate messages either? :confused: A CD would be great if easy! :)

Yeup. Dang spammers...dang fitlers....heehe

Shoot me an email to: kkeller at columbus.rr.com and I will burn you a disk and I can mail it to ya. Just drop me your addy is all in the email. :)