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InZane
2004.03.31, 03:48 AM
This is what Swedish Pro-chassis look like.
http://home.no/kazifoto/nnny/hi.jpg
http://home.no/kazifoto/nnny/bak.jpg
http://home.no/funflyer/cb3/cb3_under.jpg
http://www.home.no/funflyer/pro27/pro_3.jpg
http://w1.367.telia.com/~u36707229/mini/mcl2.jpg
And there are a lot more to come!

herman
2004.03.31, 07:08 AM
that's totally inzane...

can you tell me what electronics you used? it definitely doesnt look like stock electronics...

InZane
2004.03.31, 08:18 AM
I'm nor sure what electronics Niclas uses in his car (the fist two pics).
But the other car uses
Jeti Rex 5 plus (http://www.jetimodel.cz/eng/prijimaceen.htm) for reciever
and
the ESC is a GM SX3R (http://www.shop.graupner.de/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1451385&prmenbr=1081&lang=en)
We are also trying out the new ESC frpm Robitronic (http://www.robitronic.com/robitronic_e.htm)

West.F1
2004.03.31, 08:49 AM
very impressive. so far what is the cost to convert?

pchan0
2004.03.31, 09:31 AM
Nice choice on batteries...!!

TruReaper(Chad)
2004.03.31, 06:17 PM
How can I get one of those chassis in the first two pics. Ans what would it cost?

BenBmxer
2004.03.31, 08:08 PM
How much does it cost to make something like at and where did you get the body?

InZane
2004.04.01, 03:26 AM
The electronics costs about 140$.
Parts and carbon fiber are somewhere around 60$.

You can buy the body (Betta 1:24 1962 McLaren GT F1) from AB Slotsport (http://www.abslotsport.com).


We have chosen to use 2/3AA instead of the usual AAA because it's easier to build a chassie with regular electronics if you use these (same price).
They are not damaged by high current-drain as the AAA are.
I think AAA is just a bad heritage from Kyosho Mini-Z - something we should move away from! http://w1.367.telia.com/~u36707229/mini/mcl3.jpg

T Man
2004.04.02, 08:41 PM
My jaw literally dropped when I saw that first pic. Where can I get that chassis? :eek:

InZane
2004.04.03, 07:17 AM
Timeplan is commercial release this autumn.
We are still in prototype testing - next month the plans are to attend the first real race.

ikinari
2004.04.05, 07:58 AM
:eek: Great chassis!! Very impressive!!! :eek:

Z-as in Zorglup
2004.04.07, 04:38 PM
Heyy !!
Cool !!

InZane
2004.04.26, 12:54 AM
http://medlem.spray.se/chipreset/images/bilen2.jpg
http://medlem.spray.se/chipreset/images/bakifran.jpg
What's happening in the rest of the world?

mini-z
2004.04.26, 08:39 AM
Nice! Is it a commercial chassis or just a one-off?

T Man
2004.07.19, 11:42 AM
Hmmm......Any updates? :D

InZane
2004.07.19, 11:54 AM
The development of new 1:27 open chassis is really exploding here in Sweden.
The latest release is this one from Jonas Haggard of Stockholm.
My guess is that there will be at least 10 different new chassis this season.
What's happening in the rest of the world?

InZane
2004.07.19, 12:27 PM
Even if there are a lot of carbon chassis the original Kyosho chassis is still competetive.
Winner of the Swedish Championship was this (heavy modified) MR-02.

nikudorei
2004.07.21, 12:34 PM
they look awesome, know where you can get plans for such a chassis?

gulfclk
2004.08.01, 07:17 AM
That's it ... I'm gonna move to Sweden!

bithed
2004.08.02, 12:15 AM
...i like the spoiler up on posts like that...an interesting idea that i might play around with...

morati
2004.09.15, 10:50 PM
Anymore updates on that first chassis yet? Where can we buy them?

InZane
2004.09.16, 03:01 AM
Rumours say there will be a big realease at Nuremburg Show in February - the biggest Hobby Show here in Europe.
There will be one 1:27 track version (lexan Group C bodies) and one oval version (Nascar bodies & all 4 batteries on the same side).
The chassis will be made of carbon reinforced plastic very much like the new Associated TC4.

InZane
2004.11.19, 04:38 PM
We have two classes here in Sweden - Mini-Z Stock and 1:27 Open.
Open cars are the same size as Mini-Z but custom built chassis, whatever wind you like as long as it is a 130-motor and 2/3AA or trippleA batteries (4 cells).
The reason for this is that 2/3 AA can stand the punishment from hot winds a lot better than the usual trippleA.
Here are some new prototypes from Team InZane Racing

ruknd@aol.com
2004.11.19, 04:51 PM
We have two classes here in Sweden - Mini-Z Stock and 1:27 Open.
Open cars are the same size as Mini-Z but custom built chassis, whatever wind you like as long as it is a 130-motor and 2/3AA or trippleA batteries (4 cells).
The reason for this is that 2/3 AA can stand the punishment from hot winds a lot better than the usual trippleA.
Here are some new prototypes from Team InZane Racing

Hmmm Sweened keeps bombarding us with all this cool stuff and tracks...I'm still pushing for a gtg in sweeden :p

ruknd@aol.com
2004.11.19, 04:53 PM
Hmmm Sweened keeps bombarding us with all this cool stuff and tracks...I'm still pushing for a gtg in sweeden :p

Ah and I forgot all those rumors about Sweedisn women...we should probably see if its true ;) :rolleyes:

morati
2004.11.19, 07:00 PM
We have two classes here in Sweden - Mini-Z Stock and 1:27 Open.
Open cars are the same size as Mini-Z but custom built chassis, whatever wind you like as long as it is a 130-motor and 2/3AA or trippleA batteries (4 cells).
The reason for this is that 2/3 AA can stand the punishment from hot winds a lot better than the usual trippleA.
Here are some new prototypes from Team InZane RacingWill we ever be able to buy these chassis?

zereny
2004.11.19, 11:50 PM
Your pan-cars are awesome. But try to build your own transmission mount with plastic and carbon plate, you will have more possibility to use the 1:18 scale motor. Check out Crc, Associated & Calandra 1:12scale. I hope you get picture dude

InZane
2004.11.20, 02:42 AM
We are developing a new motor pod a lot like the the ones you mentioned.

About tracks - This years Scandinavian Open will be held on a converted Slot Racing track (high grip rubber carpet will be laid on top of the existing surface).
There are a lot of these tracks around and very few active slot racing drivers - I guess it's the same in other countries as well.
Low cost super tracks!

ikinari
2004.11.21, 02:56 AM
Wow that's the idea! That's one of the greatest track I've ever seen...:-o

herman
2004.11.21, 11:21 AM
inzane... cool pics...

can you give us a rundown on the electronics you're using for those pan cars?
and an approximate how much the whole thing will cost...
how about the chassis? does everybody make their own? or have you gone into commercial production?

zereny
2004.12.09, 03:19 AM
I really like your CF chassis design. It is awsome. And I am falling in love with it. I wonder if someone can organize something like the 1/24 - 1/28 scale open classe race worldwide. It will be interesting.
Beside I have some suggestion about the using of modify motor. We should start look at those slot car motor like the famous Platfit Cheetah or the Parma Super 16d or maybe just the endbell(The timing is fully adjsutable but the case has no mounting holes). They are among the interesting motors (+40 000rpm) to use with GM or LRP esc.

InZane
2004.12.10, 03:44 PM
The first thing we need are international rules for 1:27 Open.
We are having the first Scandinavian Champinonships this spring and are planning an Open European Championship early autumn. The next natural step would be a World Championship Open 1:27 late next year.

The rules we are using here in Sweden/Scandinavia are
>> these >> (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10649&page=2&pp=15) .
What do you think about them - arcan we use them as a starting point for a discussion about International rules?

InZane
2004.12.10, 03:48 PM
BTW - the wheelbase is changed to 102mm = 4".

zereny
2004.12.25, 02:39 AM
So it is getting bigger? Do you mean 1/24 scale??? :eek:

zereny
2004.12.28, 11:58 PM
InZane, I have updated some new rules. Please check it out. :)

zereny
2005.01.01, 07:55 PM
Inzane, What is the size of those ball links that you use?

revzalot
2005.01.02, 01:50 AM
Wow this open scale racing is exciting stuff. Not only will it promote the big companies but will also promote the small guys with custom homemade chassis. I hope this class of racing will develop like IFMAR.

InZane
2005.01.10, 12:27 PM
New year - new chassis :cool:

InZane Racing - Pro 27
commersial release next month

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.10, 06:48 PM
New year - new chassis :cool:

InZane Racing - Pro 27
commersial release next month
wow that looks awesome...makes me want to wait and see and inzane vs. proz comparison

ruf
2005.01.10, 07:11 PM
wow that looks awesome...makes me want to wait and see and inzane vs. proz comparisonJudging by what I've seen of Inzane, and personal experience with the Pro-Z v.6, I'd say Insane's chassis is the winner of that comparo. Can't say for sure though without driving it (Inzane's). Only drawback I can see to Inzane's chassis is that it might not be legal for competition in the US depending on the dimensions.

cam2
2005.01.10, 07:45 PM
Judging by what I've seen of Inzane, and personal experience with the Pro-Z v.6, I'd say Insane's chassis is the winner of that comparo. Can't say for sure though without driving it (Inzane's). Only drawback I can see to Inzane's chassis is that it might not be legal for competition in the US depending on the dimensions.

what didn't you like about the pro-z chassis?

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.11, 02:46 AM
Yes Ruf do tell I'll hold my review untill after yours.

InZane
2005.01.11, 04:33 AM
I have always been a great admirer of the Pro-Z products. This was also one of the head reasons for me to get involved in 1:27 racing – the Kyosho approach has always been a bit to “toyish” to my liking.
We all have personal preferences how the “ultimate” car should be.
I guess ruf prefers the technical solutions we implemented in the InZane Pro27 – this doesn’t mean that there must be anything wrong with the Pro-Z (I think it looks VERY good!).
A “shoot out” between different 1:27 cars is very interesting – but the real “test” would be a World Champs for 1:27 prototypes.

This is what we should prepare, plan & work for!!!

The size of the Pro27 is roughly the same as the MR-02 (82mm wide instead of 80, and 102mm wheelbase instead of 98 - all within the Scandinavian 1:27 scale rules).

ruf
2005.01.11, 11:36 AM
cam2 & Pro-Z Racing - I don't want to get into the design and production issues of the Pro-Z too much, yet. I would like to give it a chance. We have worked out a significant number of the wrinkles in the stock kit, but that car is still inconsistent. If you would like, I can go a little more indepth, but I really don't think it would be fair until we get the most out of the Pro-Z car.

InZane - There are a couple of design principles that I do like about your chassis. You kept the spring-over-kingpin design, which I'm a big fan of. It's a simple system that works well and is very consistent. I would love to see some sort of camber gain or reactive caster built into it like 1/12 scale. Something I'm kind of toying with, but not seriously due to the added complication of the system and the potential weaknesses it would bring to the front end. I also like the trailing link rear end and the battery holding plate as well.

Criticisms? I've never been a fan of t-bar rear ends, especially at this scale. When you get this small, the thickness (or rather thinness) of the carbon or fiberglass used eventually leads to delamination and the bar taking a "set" or a "tweak". The lack of fiber layers to reinforce each other reduces the fatigue life too much for my taste. If I were to design a t-bar car, I would experiment with spring steel. The other thing I HATE about t-bar cars is that it moves the cells to the outer edges of the car. I like to keep my roll moment very low as it lets you spring the car softer for bump compliance, but still have enough roll resistance in cornering. You guys also have the luxury of dealing with those tiny 2/3AA cells! :D While this is more of a comment than a criticism, designing around AAA takes up so much of the wheelbase that it often compromises component placement. Add to that the length of your chassis, and you'll find that you will have a tough time fitting an Autoscale body to it without some hacking. Now if you race somewhere that the rules are open enough to allow lexan and 2/3AA, then more power to you.

Now all this being said, these are just my opinions. Every designer/engineer has his own style and process of developing a solution and more importantly, EXECUTING that solution. A design that I consider "not optimal" may be implemented so well that it works great.

InZane
2005.01.11, 12:11 PM
Thank you for the compliments ruf :) .
We are constntly trying new solutions on our cars - different front ends are one og theese things.
Our present version has more than a year of development built into it.

The "one ball hinged" rear end is very similar to the old Composite Craft Lynx II, or more recent - the Calandra Carpet Knife (no T-bar).

2/3AA cells are, except making construction easier, less expensive and better suited for high amp loads compared to the tripple A cells.

ruf
2005.01.11, 12:23 PM
Ah, the CRC rear end. How are you getting roll stiffness? Did you just leave the roll springs off of the roll shocks in those pics? I didn't see a roll spring platform a la CRC, so I assumed that you had the uni-ball attached to some sort of spring plate.

What dampers are you using? How much do they weigh? I would be tempted to try using Overland plastic oil dampers especially with weight so high. Maybe cut-down plastic damper tubes with custom spring perches for "Kyosho" roll (maybe lowdown) springs?

InZane
2005.01.11, 12:43 PM
We run the rear end without roll springs the "Corally fashion" - just damped by the damper tubes.
The blue aluminum side-dampers from GPM will be changed to lightweight plastic damper tubes soon.

If needed we have a solution for setting the tweak/roll stiffness with a GRP plate and screws much like the way the CEFX C12 front end works.

ruf
2005.01.11, 12:54 PM
We run the rear end without roll springs the "Corally fashion" - just damped by the damper tubes.
The blue aluminum side-dampers from GPM will be changed to lightweight plastic damper tubes soon.Ah the Corally "mop" rear end! :D We used to call it that because it flopped around like a wet mop. :p It always seemed very "stuck" though. The Corally was one of the easiest to drive 1/12 scale imo. The rubber surround actually had a little bit of roll resistance.

If needed we have a solution for setting the tweak/roll stiffness with a GRP plate and screws much like the way the CEFX C12 front end works.That's what I meant by adding a spring plate to the uni-ball. I've been wanting to take a closer look at the C12 front end. Seems interesting.

Tweak is one of the things that bothers me most about Mini-Z. Originally I wanted to make a screw-type front preload system to adjust tweak, but found that the springs are actually quite consistent with each other as to make it almost unnecessary. The rear end is an altogether different matter. At the current time I'm using mounting posts cut to 0.1mm differences. Tedious, but predictable. I need to find a better solution.

InZane
2005.01.11, 01:14 PM
Last season, when we still races with heavily modified Mini-Z chassis, we used a tri shock set up in the rear.
It made tweak setting a snap - damped the rear end and made it possible to adjust the roll stiffness without changing the H-bar.
you can find some pics here >> (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13627)

ruf
2005.01.11, 01:45 PM
Last season, when we still races with heavily modified Mini-Z chassis, we used a tri shock set up in the rear.
It made tweak setting a snap - damped the rear end and made it possible to adjust the roll stiffness without changing the H-bar.
you can find some pics here >> (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13627)I love threaded adjusters. I just don't think I can find them for my application.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.11, 03:09 PM
inzane vs. pro z shoot out. Funny I never hear about the squat kit, anyone have one or a picture of one (not the rendering in the shop).

cam2
2005.01.11, 04:09 PM
inzane vs. pro z shoot out. Funny I never hear about the squat kit, anyone have one or a picture of one (not the rendering in the shop).

i read the squat chassis is garbage. check out this thread. http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14748&highlight=squat+chassis

InZane
2005.01.11, 05:24 PM
Here are som pics of the body - a Porsche GT1.
The last photo is taken from the side to show how low the chassis is - nearly nothing over the axles :)

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.11, 05:53 PM
I luv Link Cars. And Inzane has the best link car design i have seen in a few years. I have raced for team speedmerchant since the get go back when CRC and Speedmerchant were partners. Over the past 12 years we have tested every aspect of link cars. Theirs positives and negatives to both designs in 12th scale. However these positives and negatives get amplified when things get smaller. My very first design i was looking to use pivoting rear pod like a link car and promptly abandoned.


The corally MOP was great back in the day and still runs well on asphalt where you need all the rear bite you can get but can't hang on carpet at any national level of racing. MOP just has no cut into a corner.


Mid motor on a 4 inch long car puts the balance point of a car too far forward for my taste. Puts you at the outter edges of rear tire setup. by that i mean you have to run the softest tires to hook up with a real mod.


The main reason link cars are disadvantaged is the roll center. IT is amplified because the axles are so much closer to the ground on mini z rear pod on a link car swings like a pendulum so as the rear end has to physically move side ways to move. This brakes rear traction the higher the pivot the more swing you get. The lower the roll center the more traction. In 12th scale we adjust roll center .030 inch for a big change. with a t bar the roll center is already as low as possible angled the t bar down and the rear pod will pivot directly inline with the chassis for most rear traction possible

For the size of the car the high roll center and MID motor all rob the car of rear traction. The floating rear end and double wide rear tires tells me it's at it's limits for rear traction.

Doesn't mean this car won't race well just like a Pro-Z doesn't mean you will win


Inzane i hope you keep testing and you always have original cars Try and lower your roll center and try a rm pod.

Your gonna need rear traction for the new Pro-Z brushless coming soon.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.11, 06:02 PM
It great to see bit of competition to spice things up...I agree on the rear dampers...I think the disc damper is the best bet on a car this size. But this being said there seems to be pluses and munuses of both designs.

Inzane..what is the price of yours and what does it come with and what components do you use.

from a practical aspect, I like that pro-z uses standard K knuckles, diffs and pods...thes are all things that break and its good to know there are easy replacement parts out there.

I wish there was a side by side comparison of the two...they are both really nice designs...though this gives me food for thought before I buy.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.11, 06:11 PM
sorry for the double post....

inzane...why did you go with the shock style and not the disc I saw in another prototype?

ruf...why do you think the inzane is so much better?

ruf
2005.01.11, 06:58 PM
ruknd - I also prefer the damper disk to tube setup on these cars. We are going to try to set up the Pro-Z V.6 with an Atomic damper plate system to see how it works. I've also cut out a 1/16" thick t-bar to try and alleviate the delamination/tweak issues. As for why I think the InZane chassis is better, I thought I answered that question a few posts ago. To be honest with you I prefer the Pro-Z V.5 to the V.6. We have pretty much gone to a V.5-style front end last time at the track. It helped, but not completely. Like in full-scale racing, steering problems usually come from the rear, not the front.

Pro-Z - I understand where your logic is coming from re: t-bars and roll center. I'm from a different school of thought being that I'm more of a touring car guy than a pan car guy. I actually like having a higher roll center and springing the car softer. Not too high of course. A little absolute traction is sacrificed in order to get a car that is more forgiving at the limits. This along with a smaller roll moment should allow to spring my cars as soft as I can get away with and still have good transition control. My buddy is the opposite way, he like to spring the heck out of his cars. He wants me to make him a kart chassis (no suspension) just for kicks and see how it drives... :rolleyes:

InZane
2005.01.12, 01:44 PM
The last year we’ve been busy testing everything we can think of – T-bar, disc dampers, rear mounted motors, batteries .......
InZane Racing Pro27 is the result, the only thing that counts is if we are getting faster lap times!
Chassis are always compromises – everything, even the biggest improvement, often has a downside.
Our theory is that a slightly higher roll center makes the car less prone to have problems with “traction roll” (the center of gravity and the roll center are moved closer to each other) – this is a much bigger problem on carpet or rubber tracks (rm makes things even worse) than low traction.

We are still testing different rear & front end solutions. Production will start in four weeks.
Time will tell if it will be uni-ball or T-bar, tri-shock or damper disc – we aim to produce the best car possible from our point of view.

I think our speculations what the optimal 1:27 RC car should look like is just a bad substitute for what we really should be doing instead – arranging a World Championships and prove our theories by winning!

Picture is of the Pro27 with damper disc & T-bar – still under testing.

ruf
2005.01.12, 02:34 PM
Now that's the ticket! :D

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.12, 03:04 PM
I Like it! It seems that different surfaces and drivign styles would better suit different rear ends...( I think sir mix-a-lot first showed us that there are people that like a variety of rearends)...anyway...any chance of option from proz or inzane?

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.12, 03:05 PM
[QUOTE=InZane]
Our theory is that a slightly higher roll center makes the car less prone to have problems with “traction roll” (the center of gravity and the roll center are moved closer to each other) – this is a much bigger problem on carpet or rubber tracks (rm makes things even worse) than low traction.

QUOTE]

Please explain your theory on roll center to me. High roll center pretty much is the worst thing to have with a car that traction rolls. Lower the roll center you gain rear bite and the front pushes instead of digging in and flipping Your talking about weight thrown over the front axles the higher it is the easier it is to throw the weight.


Also explain to me how RM is inferior Look at the balance point of the cars or any pan car. Even with RM the balance point isn't as far back as it is with a 12th scale and they have 3 times wider foam tires in the rear. Spinning rear tires aren't going forward My theory is to plant all the horsepower.


You can get away with a lot with a stock motor or x speed Kinda like the Ferrari and a mini van driving a round a crowed parking lot, they both take turns about the same. Anything handles at low speed

Your car is different from the mini z but what has improved. I see about the same CG as the MR-02 balance point is further forward great for traction roll, smaller cells less run time. Looks to me like you just made something diffrent. Maybe even alittle worse than stock from my point of view.

Enjoy your Sweden World Cup I'm having the championship of the universe at my house.

Feel free to pick apart the pro-z please back it up with facts.

InZane
2005.01.12, 04:33 PM
Designing chassis is a question of personal choices.
There are no simpel answers for what is wrong or right.
A forum like this can be a perfect place for exchanging idéas and experiences with others.
You don't have to get mad if not everyone share your opinion - maybe you can learn something from others instead!
All that it takes is curiosity and thirst for knowledge.
Please - Pro-Z racing, I'm not critisizing either you or your products.
One of the reasons for the rapid growth of prototype class racing in Scandinavia is a very "open" climat between drivers/developers - maybe we should try having this international as well.

The theory behind less roll moment less traction roll is described >> here >> (http://www.team-orion.ch/faq/car-handling3.asp) .
Please feel free to explain in a polite way if you disagree.

I hope we can get an invitation the the championship of the universe - I'll be there ;)

ruf
2005.01.12, 05:25 PM
ruknd - as for rear end options on the Pro-Z, we will be trying an Atomic damper plate system on the Pro-Z V.6 next weekend.

Pro-Z - while I'm no moderator, I'm going to suggest that you watch your tone. You are quickly taking a technical discussion of different chassis concepts and turning it into an antagonistic debate. InZane just expressed the opinion and reasoning behind his design, and made no criticisms towards your design. I have been more than diplomatic about my experience with the Pro-Z V.6, and I would expect the same courtesy from anyone else in this discussion.

That having been said, back to roll center and it's effects on traction rolling. A lower roll center increases the effect of the cg about the chassis. It increases roll. While this is good for generating traction, it encourages more chassis roll at the same spring rate. Traction and chassis roll combined at extremes produces traction rolling or snap rolling. By raising the roll center, the cg has less leverage on the roll center and reduces total traction. By reducing traction and limiting roll, you effective counteract traction rolling. It doesn't matter if it's in the front or the rear as it's affecting the roll axis either way and taking traction away from the car. Now keep in mind that you are reducing side traction (sidebite), but maintaining forward drive traction which is based primarily on tires and weight shift. By raising the roll center, you can theoretically dial in as much or little sidebite as your chassis/tire combo can handle, while maintaining all of the forward drive associated with running fat sticky tires.

Also, I for one would love to be able to run the smaller lighter cells. AAA has way more runtime than is necessary for even 8min racing.

hKs Nelson
2005.01.12, 05:29 PM
ruknd - as for rear end options on the Pro-Z, we will be trying an Atomic damper plate system on the Pro-Z V.6 next weekend.

Pro-Z - while I'm no moderator, I'm going to suggest that you watch your tone. You are quickly taking a technical discussion of different chassis concepts and turning it into an antagonistic debate. InZane just expressed the opinion and reasoning behind his design, and made no criticisms towards your design. I have been more than diplomatic about my experience with the Pro-Z V.6, and I would expect the same courtesy from anyone else in this discussion.

That having been said, back to roll center and it's effects on traction rolling. A lower roll center increases the effect of the cg about the chassis. It increases roll. While this is good for generating traction, it encourages more chassis roll at the same spring rate. Traction and chassis roll combined at extremes produces traction rolling or snap rolling. By raising the roll center, the cg has less leverage on the roll center and reduces total traction. By reducing traction and limiting roll, you effective counteract traction rolling. It doesn't matter if it's in the front or the rear as it's affecting the roll axis either way and taking traction away from the car. Now keep in mind that you are reducing side traction (sidebite), but maintaining forward drive traction which is based primarily on tires and weight shift. By raising the roll center, you can theoretically dial in as much or little sidebite as your chassis/tire combo can handle, while maintaining all of the forward drive associated with running fat sticky tires.

Also, I for one would love to be able to run the smaller lighter cells. AAA has way more runtime than is necessary for even 8min racing.

This man knows what he is speaking about.

ruf
2005.01.12, 05:31 PM
And nelson is gh3y. And he likes to hang out around truck stops.

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.12, 09:35 PM
Yes, i apologize I shouldn't be so testy.

We have discussed the world championship thing before.

Ruf - if we were talking about a 4wd 10th scale i wouldn't disagree But not so on a 2wd pan car. You are right about the difference in traction roll and snap rolling. With the decreased weight the rear is more likely to slid untill the side wall bites and snap rolls. With the short wheelbase and high horspower rear grip is already scarce.

And I believe we discussed this alittle bit with your car (brian's car ) tri poding as the soft side spring rate would lay over, not snap roll. This lets you run stiffer spring rate and cut harder into a turn. Granted this is a preference but compared side by side a car that cuts harder will carry more speed through a turn.

InZane
2005.01.13, 01:57 PM
Our reason for using 2/3AA cells is not because they are smaller/lighter - in fact they are slightly heavier than AAA cells (1,5 gram).
The best cells that we have found are KAN batteries - much favoured by the electric RC flyers because of their ultra low internal resistance (much more important than capacity).
The two cell types differ only by the dimensions - 2/3AA are shorter but have a larger diameter. The characteristics are otherwise very similar as you can see on the attached chart.
We have chosen to use these cells because they give more space for the electronics on the chassiplate. Another advantage is the low price and their superior ability to "survive" large amp loads (this makes them even more economical in the long run).
>> The CBP 750 cells >> (http://www.unipros.com/cbpsite/loosecells.asp?session_id=224473) are said to be very good - romours say they are originaly Kan cells with a CBP label.
If you're planning to build a 1:27 prototype chassie we think you should strongly consider this alternative!

I'm also attaching a picture of a new Scandinavian prototype - the MGZ- MkII

InZane
2005.01.13, 02:36 PM
Oval racing - European Style

I know it's off topic - but you just have to see this video by my friends from France!

>> Oval InZanity >> (http://alf888.free.fr/videos/diabolik/Diabolik09.01.05_02.wmv)

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.13, 04:12 PM
InZane...I'm confused does your car take these batteries or standard aaas?

One thing that concerns me when you use a three point suspension as inzane has is that the dampening rate, friction, and movement are not equal all around...this is why I like the friction damper on a set up where the shock is essentially mounted horizontally.

InZane
2005.01.13, 05:36 PM
We are using 2/3AA KAN cells.

The most important thing is to have some kind of multi directional damping of the rear end. Both disc dampers and tri shock set ups are OK.
If you use a disc damper you need an extra spring loaded damper pointing forward for dialing the in-steering (I'm sorry if my English sometimes can be a bit cryptic).
There is a problem because this damper gets a more forward position than if you use tri shocks (small car - no space).
Most of todays 1:12 pan cars have damper tubes instead of a damper disc - we haven't had any problems with unequal damping rate or movment with the Pro27.

ruf
2005.01.17, 04:47 PM
Pro-Z - perhaps you are right about pan car design. I personally want my Z to handle more like a TC anyways. Just something for me to experiment with.

InZane - I stand corrected on the weight of the 2/3AA. I would like to run 2/3AAA or something to get the weight down. Eventually I want to start experimenting with thin film batteries just for fun. The thing is that the battery standard needs to be locked down eventually for competition purposes.

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.17, 05:27 PM
Ruf - That will be tough with a 2wd straight axle car. Pan cars are more a point and shoot driving style Xmods feel more like a TC but the drive train is inefficient. Li- Poly cells are great nice and flat. I have been using some LI-Ion AA cells in my car they are surpassingly light and have 3.7 volts per cell the 2 li-ions AA weigh less then the 4 NiMH AAA and 7.4 volts 700 mAh to boot.

ruf
2005.01.17, 05:41 PM
The new thin flim battery technology is basically an upgraded li-poly cell. They are using a new technology in forming the film electrolyte. It will blow any current flat battery out of the water when it finally becomes available. Incredible cycle life, charge and discharge rates, and energy density.

Pro-Z Racing
2005.01.17, 06:31 PM
I heard NEC has some new carbon Oxygen somthing based cell that will have a 2 min recharge

Definaly some killer stuff around the corner.

McLaren F1 T3
2005.01.17, 08:34 PM
INzane, is it possible for people in US to order this chassis of yours? And how much will it be when it comes out? Thanks. ;)

InZane
2005.01.18, 11:08 AM
The commercial chassis are planned to be realeased late february.
Price and other information will be available on our web site (still under construction)

InZane
2005.02.07, 02:42 PM
Pro27 made it's racing debut this weekend.
Toughest possible competetition at Cargel Racing - the hottest 1:27 track here in Sweden (most prestigious place to win a race - and this was the biggest race there this season!!!).
Not to bad of a debut :D
TQ
New unbelievable lap record (6,859 - first time under 7 sec)
Overall win

Video from the first A-main, Isak took the start from pole position and won with an incredible new track record - 64 laps in 8min (http://www.inzaneracing.com/video/a_main.wmv)

Pro-Z Racing
2005.02.07, 02:58 PM
Nice track car looks good

arch2b
2005.02.07, 03:02 PM
those are fast!

ruknd@aol.com
2005.02.07, 03:07 PM
makes me want to see a pro-z inzane shootout even more...

morati
2005.02.08, 12:40 AM
Congratulations INZANE......well done. The car looks awesome. What electronics are you using (ESC, servo, motor, receiver) or are you using the stock stuff? When can we order from your new website? Will you be offering rolling chassis only?

ruf
2005.02.08, 02:47 PM
Looks good! That body looks like it's providing significant downforce in the sweeper. Also effecting transition quickness too! I will have to redesign to start running lexan GTP bodies! My current chassis is too high in the butt... :(

Bazooka
2005.02.16, 12:12 PM
Pro27 made it's racing debut this weekend.
Toughest possible competetition at Cargel Racing - the hottest 1:27 track here in Sweden (most prestigious place to win a race - and this was the biggest race there this season!!!).
Not to bad of a debut :D
TQ
New unbelievable lap record (6,859 - first time under 7 sec)
Overall win

Video from the first A-main, Isak took the start from pole position and won with an incredible new track record - 64 laps in 8min (http://www.inzaneracing.com/video/a_main.wmv)

Maybe I should correct this a little bit:

"Toughest possible competetition"-- There were only 5 cars starting and one was a Standard Mini-z with Atomic stockmotor

"and this was the biggest race there this season!!!" -- No it wasn´t
"Not to bad of a debut " -- The debut was on the 16th of Jan. and it came deadlast

"won with an incredible new track record - 64 laps in 8min" -- The Standard Mini-z driven by David Carlsson did 65 laps in 8min

ruknd@aol.com
2005.02.16, 02:09 PM
Maybe I should correct this a little bit:

"Toughest possible competetition"-- There were only 5 cars starting and one was a Standard Mini-z with Atomic stockmotor

"and this was the biggest race there this season!!!" -- No it wasn´t
"Not to bad of a debut " -- The debut was on the 16th of Jan. and it came deadlast

"won with an incredible new track record - 64 laps in 8min" -- The Standard Mini-z driven by David Carlsson did 65 laps in 8min
that's a curious first post...

TNB
2005.02.16, 02:13 PM
And the battle continues....

ruknd@aol.com
2005.02.16, 02:15 PM
And the battle continues....
i'm still skeptical as this person joined today and posted just this one post...

TNB
2005.02.16, 02:22 PM
That's why I would like to the see the Inzane, Pro-Z, and Carbo6 all on the same track at the same time. ;)

arch2b
2005.02.16, 02:47 PM
don't forget the new tagu 1:24 chassis :p

ruknd@aol.com
2005.02.16, 02:49 PM
and the dtm....kawaada...etc. etc.....

TNB
2005.02.16, 03:06 PM
I simply didn't want to list a bunch of others (though I have an ABC DTMx4) since I'm more interested in seeing the "contestants" strut their stuff on a track instead of a forum. In my opinion, some cars just aren't "Mini-Zs" by the time all the changes have been made and some of the others listed never were Mini-Zs.

arch2b
2005.02.16, 03:23 PM
there is very little left of anything resembling a mini-z in any of them. maybe a few parts and the use of the electronics....

Bazooka
2005.02.17, 08:30 AM
that's a curious first post...

what´s curious about it?
I saw the race and it wasn`anything like he said

Pro-Z Racing
2005.02.17, 02:28 PM
thats funny, I liked the promotional ad


Inzane did you buy that used Pro-Z V6 on the forum.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.02.17, 02:31 PM
what´s curious about it?
I saw the race and it wasn`anything like he said
was it the driver or the design?

kaz
2005.02.18, 12:40 PM
I was the driver in the race, and the race wasn't small or big - it was a regular race with drivers from all over sweden. yes only 5 cars were competing in the event but the other race there this season with 1:27 pro cars race had zero, null, nada competitors. So yes, it was the biggest 1:27 race there this season.

The standard mini-z was ran by a guy who's 1:27 car with lexan body burned the FET's at raceday so he couldnt drive it, he borrowed the car from the track owner.
He was extremly fast with this car - He is a great driver and the car itself has laid down over 1000 laps at that track. He is also a friend of mine and i felt sorry for him that he had to use the Standard mini-z, he would have been a big threat if he had had his 1:27 at hand!

I had never run the InZane car until the day before the race - and the car has never ran on that track before. I think i have laid down some 500-1000 laps at the track but i have never run under 7.4 before. (with stock-rules mini-z - all options but no fet's or lexan bodies)

The track was cargel racing - probarly the nicest track in sweden. Its small - but its beautyfull. ( www.cargel.se )


And about the so called debut at 16th of Jan when it came deadlast - it ran exactly 3 laps in one main and thats it. The driver at that race was very ill and went to hospital some weeks later when his disease got worse.
If you call that a racedebut - i have ran several maratons. ;)


The 64 laps in 8min trackrecord claim is a blatant miss from me - i said this to InZane after i won the 2 first finals, In the third final where i only cruised around David managed to get 65 laps and i didn't realise it. I take the blame for this.


The lap record of 6,859 is correct and no one has ever driven a 7second lap at a race before. When practising some guys have managed to get down the 6.9 tho - but practice is a whole different thing as you guys know.



Just to get this clear: I have no interest in taking sides here - both Bazooka and InZane are my friends.

teammpp
2005.10.22, 11:20 AM
The first thing we need are international rules for 1:27 Open.
We are having the first Scandinavian Champinonships this spring and are planning an Open European Championship early autumn. The next natural step would be a World Championship Open 1:27 late next year.

The rules we are using here in Sweden/Scandinavia are
>> these >> (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10649&page=2&pp=15) .
What do you think about them - arcan we use them as a starting point for a discussion about International rules?

I really like the idea of international rules. If a fixed set of rules could be agreed I would be prepared to build a chassis for retail myself to give more option. Im all on personally for full on modified's but we are a small minority who are willing to pay the price. We would need to limit possibly the radio to standard Mini-Z equipment so as to try keep costs at affordable prices for everyone (No point having a class if noone can afford to run it). If yourself and Pro-Z are willing to discuss a possible draft for rules I would be happy to set up a live chat area on one of my servers.

Pro-Z Racing
2005.10.22, 02:14 PM
the rules are easy same as every other scale of RC motor, #of cells and type, drive train = class. None of this chassis b i t c h i n g if you want to race a plastic chassis your choice. every other scale of RC is done this way but when the cars get smaller than 18th scale suddenly we enter bizarro world.

teammpp
2005.10.22, 02:44 PM
I agree with what your saying. But other more fundamental rules need to be discussed like lengths etc... Min-max etc.. Weight - min weight limit etc... Min motor turns etc... As far as chassis, yes anything goes (otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion). dampers same and bodyshells lexan or whatever.

Then you have to take into consideration how events are run. All clubs over the world have different methods of running meetings. But we should have a single set schedule like IFMAR/Roar/brca/efra so that everyone knows what is happening. I lost count of the number of arguements we have had at local National rounds in 200mm nitro etc because the rules werent defined properly.

How long does a qualifier last, final system (straight finals, bump up, christmas tree, aggregate multi runs, etc)....

Then you go into tracks. Each club uses different tracks. Norm in US seems to be RCP. European tracks tend to be hand made using many different surfaces. Whats acceptable? Whats the minimum width for international meetings? Whats the max width of track. What track boundaries are acceptable, etc..?

All these type of things need discussed. As mod-z is a totally different class to stock it needs its own defined rules.

akura2
2005.10.31, 05:26 PM
We are using 2/3AA KAN cells.

The most important thing is to have some kind of multi directional damping of the rear end. Both disc dampers and tri shock set ups are OK.
If you use a disc damper you need an extra spring loaded damper pointing forward for dialing the in-steering (I'm sorry if my English sometimes can be a bit cryptic).
There is a problem because this damper gets a more forward position than if you use tri shocks (small car - no space).
Most of todays 1:12 pan cars have damper tubes instead of a damper disc - we haven't had any problems with unequal damping rate or movment with the Pro27.

THat picture looks awesome

InZane
2006.01.16, 03:03 PM
A nice track in Falköping Sweden - a former slot racing track with rubber carpet surface.
The video shows "Busfro" (Niklas Goransson) driving his Open Class car - a modified Mini-Z (Atomic VDS body)
Video (http://miniracing.falbygden.com/rc/Busfro@fmr.wmv)

machine
2006.01.16, 09:26 PM
so are you selling them anwhere yet?

InZane
2006.01.17, 04:21 AM
Visit my homepage later this week

ruf
2006.01.17, 10:34 AM
InZane - shoot me an email. I'd like to get one of these bad boys. Still trying to get ahold of an AV03. :p I've personally shifted my R&D away from 2wd to 4wd. SO much faster, but the car is so ugly looking going around the track. No grace at all.

gulfclk
2006.01.18, 01:24 AM
InZane - shoot me an email. I'd like to get one of these bad boys. Still trying to get ahold of an AV03. :p I've personally shifted my R&D away from 2wd to 4wd. SO much faster, but the car is so ugly looking going around the track. No grace at all.

There will be another small serie of the AV03 coming soon. But, may I remind you the CT-03 will be ready in a couple of weeks as well ... ;)

will3kgt
2006.01.19, 01:08 AM
Visit my homepage later this week
I want to buy one of your cars. Your home page is down for the moment, I'll try to get on it later. Your cars are very impressive...The most impressive I've seen in this scale thus far.

InZane
2006.01.22, 06:41 PM
You are welcome to my site - it reopened today!

will3kgt
2006.02.02, 01:12 AM
Very nice site. I'll be doing business with you in the near future. Good luck.

InZane
2006.02.06, 02:51 AM
The InZane Team paid the Falkoping Track a visit this weekend - it's really a extremly nice racing facility.

How did it go? - well, we broke Busfro's track record (video earlier in this thread) with nearly a second :cool:

A short video clip from our visit. (http://web.comhem.se/~u96500031/Filmfalkoping.wmv )

Ninja
2006.02.06, 03:26 AM
man that car is sick :D

gulfclk
2006.02.06, 05:24 AM
The InZane Team paid the Falkoping Track a visit this weekend - it's really a extremly nice racing facility.

How did it go? - well, we broke Busfro's track record (video earlier in this thread) with nearly a second :cool:

A short video clip from our visit. (http://web.comhem.se/~u96500031/Filmfalkoping.wmv )

Which car had the previous record? A standaard mini-z or something else? This second says nothing without a reference ....

InZane
2006.02.06, 06:07 AM
Sorry - maybe it was a bit unclear, but I was referring to the message earlier in this thread (about 10 messages ago - vieo link as well).

The car wich Busfro set the previous record was a modified Mini-Z (wide rims, VDS body and a Atomic T2 motor).

InZane
2006.02.06, 06:16 AM
The old record was 9.4.
The new record set by Magnus Skold from the InZane Team is 8.7

InZane
2006.02.13, 04:50 AM
New video from this weekend - first sequence shows "Krille's" first outing with his new Viagra Ford
Next sequence shows Magnus Skold's record breaking Porsche GT-1
Video (http://web.comhem.se/~u65900037/falk12.wmv)

Michos Miche
2006.02.13, 10:06 AM
http://miniracingbolaget.se/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13335 On the Swedish Mini-Z forum.

pchan0
2007.01.28, 02:18 PM
Does the Pro27 accepts normal Atomic dish wheels? How wide is the chassis? How about ride height with rubber tires?

Will you ship to Canada?

InZane
2007.01.29, 02:50 PM
Does the Pro27 accepts normal Atomic dish wheels? How wide is the chassis? How about ride height with rubber tires?

Will you ship to Canada?

Atomic dish wheels will fit.
The Pro27 uses Mini-Z F1 differential and regular steering knuckles.
The Atomic motor pod has integrated height adjusters so there's no problem to run tires up to 25mm.

Unfortunately the Pro27 is discontinued in the Inzane Racing shop, but there will be other new alternatives later this year.

kaz
2007.01.31, 08:02 PM
The Pro27 is now sold by a swedish hobbystore called Skåne Hobby, you can mail them ( info@skanehobby.se ) and ask if they will ship it to canada. They took over the sale of the Pro27 from InZane racing.