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Mondo
2004.07.16, 02:35 PM
Recently I acquired myself a new small scale to compliment my already oversized and underused collection (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6581)
It's an ABC DTM X4, the true giant killer of small-scale RC. I got this from our old freind ChezeDog who had it up for auction. (Thanks Chris)
The DTM X4 is a 1/24 scale shaft drive 4WD, has a 180 size motor, adjustable ball-diffs front and rear as well as friction fit wheels a-la Micro RS4 and X-Ray M18. he DTM X4 comes with foam tires all round.
The difference is this will whup any standard Micro RS4 and M18 into submission, let's not mention what it will do to a Mini-Z or even an Iwaver :D

This is a truly amazing little car, it came RTR minus TX and has a Team Orion Flash ESC, 7.2V battery pack, Shredder mini-RX in 27MHz AM, Hitech HS81 Servo and fairly decent Calsonic Skyline bodyshell.

I've just ordered a high-speed bearing set for it and intend on fitting a Mamba CM2054 5400 kV brushless setup to it which I am getting from United RC (http://www.unitedrc.com)
Why am I fitting a brushless system that can propel a Micro Rs4 to beyon 50mph to a 1/24 scale car? I have one reason: because it can be done!

Mondo
2004.07.16, 02:41 PM
Here's a few pics to show the DTM X4's size compared to better known small scale RC cars.

I will Post pics of it once my brushless setup arrives from URC

TNB
2004.07.16, 03:52 PM
I've just ordered a high-speed bearing set for it and intend on fitting a Mamba CM2054 5400 kV brushless setup to it which I am getting from United RC (http://www.unitedrc.com)
Why am I fitting a brushless system that can propel a Micro Rs4 to beyon 50mph to a 1/24 scale car? I have one reason: because it can be done!

http://www.castlecreations.com

4200Kv system pushing a Mini-t with a 3-cell LiPo is projected at 32 mph.
5400Kv system is projected at 40 mph with a 3-cell LiPo.
6800Kv system is projected at 50 mph with a 3-cell LiPo
8000Kv system is projected at 60+ mph with a 3-cell LiPo.

Don't forget the photos of the aftermath. I'll do the same with my M18 if and when I ever change out the speed control. As Shawn (Castle Creations) informed me, my current set up would be either "stop" or "full speed", but nothing in between.

What charger are you going to use for LiPos?

Mondo
2004.07.16, 04:44 PM
TNB,

I will use an Apache 2500. There will be no wreckage as I plan on being quite selective when and more importantly where I run this baby.
Excuse my typo, correct, it is 40mph, so I can expect some improved performance when it's all fitted to the DTM X4. I say at least 50 mph?
What do you reckon?

TNB
2004.07.16, 05:09 PM
Mondo,

Well there is that smaller 3-cell LiPo targeted at the Mini-T made by Thunder Power Batteries here in town, which should propel that little car quite fast; however I do know that they only recommend the Schulze ISL 6.330d or Schulze 6.636d or Astro Flight AST1090 to charge their LiPos. It is my understanding that Thunder Power is also in the process of manufacturing their own LiPo charger. A new LiPo charger is also on my list of to purchase items—no hurry with all the Zs though.

If NML can get his Z to 50 mph, I can't really see why you couldn't get the DTM to 50 mph if you can get all the hop-ups to fit, locate a place to run it, still get enough traction, and still keep the DTM under control.

I'd like to see the little guy scoot in person, but I'll settle for a short video if possible. Good luck with your project. :)

herman
2004.07.20, 12:21 AM
hey mondo...

nice find... just wondering why cheezdog sold it...

if you can try to get a servo saver... a friend has one and after trashing two servo's... he put it atop his shelf and it now gathers dust...

how does it run as is?

Mondo
2004.07.20, 02:30 AM
Herman,

I haven't test run it yet, I ordered a bearing kit for it and once the bearings have been installed, I'll give it a blast.
Regarding a servo saver, I have some from the Micro RS4 "dual link steering kit" so when I strip it down and rebuild it, I will fit the servo saver. Thanks for the tip.
I also have a couple of spare Hitec HS81MG servos. Perhaps I should fit one of those? We'll see, but I honestly believe the HS81 (non-MG) is up to the task.

ZMS
2004.07.20, 05:12 AM
Mondo,
I can't believe that you are doing this. The Mamba is supposed to be for the M-18. Jon has already shipped your diffs. We are ALL eagerly waiting for the run the past few weeks.

Anyway since you are already at it, why not just go for this:

RC Car Action is throwing down the gauntlet! We want to see who can build the flat-out fastest RC machine on the planet. We’re keeping the rules simple, and anyone can enter. You’ve got a year to build whatever you think it’s gonna take to be the fastest, and it'll all go down at the Irwindale Speedway in Irwindale, CA (Exact date to be announced. The event will be scheduled not earlier than June 1, 2005).
• For complete rules, click here.
• Talk about it! Click here to visit the RC Zone bulletin board and talk about what YOU will build!.


Cheers

Cian
2004.07.20, 08:43 AM
I just want to know how you intend keeping it on the ground..... :)

Mondo
2004.07.20, 09:20 AM
Mondo,
I can't believe that you are doing this. The Mamba is supposed to be for the M-18. Jon has already shipped your diffs. We are ALL eagerly waiting for the run the past few weeks.

LOL! I am buying another Mamba Brushless setup for this or the M18, Jon from United RC (http://www.unitedrc.com) and I are discussing what he can get for me regarding another Mamba Brushless, if he can get a 6800kV that will go into the M18, if not, then I'll just have to use 5600kV Brushless systems in both cars.


I just want to know how you intend keeping it on the ground..... :)

Cian, I am hoping and praying the weight of the motor, LiPoly batteries, electronics and the massive wing on the Nismo Skyline bodyshell will do the job

Chezedog
2004.09.01, 01:29 PM
I can see this car certainly found a good home! :D

herman
2004.09.01, 10:27 PM
hmm.. chezedog...

that car wouldn't happen to have a sister would it? i saw it had an 27mhz am shredder receiver... i've been looking for one, they're kinda rare since hitec stopped making them...

xemet
2004.09.02, 02:11 AM
ABC is a great car, only thing I don't like is the rear suspension system...
You shuold make a carbon fiber chassis and other structural mods on this car...
Specially if you want launch it over 50 mph! :D

Mondo
2004.09.02, 02:34 AM
hmm.. chezedog...

that car wouldn't happen to have a sister would it? i saw it had an 27mhz am shredder receiver... i've been looking for one, they're kinda rare since hitec stopped making them...

Herman, the DTM X4 is going 40MHz FM - like all my non Mini-Z RC's.
If you'd like to "deprive" me of the Shredder: mondo@yourmicro.com

I can see this car certainly found a good home! :D

Oh, of course. Thanks Chris, that little car is an absoloute gem!

Chezedog
2004.09.02, 08:50 AM
hmm.. chezedog...

that car wouldn't happen to have a sister would it?

Nope, that was the only one I had, part of a package deal I had with a co-worker.
But if I should come across another, I'll let you know...

TNB
2004.09.02, 11:16 AM
The Mamba is supposed to be for the M-18.
Don't you mean 1/18th scale? If not Palmer must have first did a lot of unnecessary testing with a Mini-T since the speed ratings are shown tested with a Mini-T. ;)

Mondo
2004.09.02, 05:13 PM
TNB,

Castle have speed ratings with a Micro RS4 and Mini-T in the manual.
No mention of an M18 though!

TNB
2004.09.02, 05:22 PM
CC may not have the speed rating listed for a M18 on the site or in the manual but they are being used in M18s. Soon the 8000kv should be in mine too. If it is too fast, I'll just use the brushless motor that I currently have in my M18. The 3-cell LiPo fits very nice as well. :D

My M18 with a 3-Cell Lipo & Brushless Motor (http://mini-zracer.com/albums/album289/XrayWIP022604_2.jpg)

Mondo
2004.09.03, 02:25 AM
TNB I just bought myself another Mamba Brushless from Jon at United RC (http://www.unitedrc.com) for the M18.
I don't honestly believe the BL will work with the DTM due to thge can being round, opposed to most 180 sized motors having a can with two flat sides.
I'm awaiting my ball-diffs and alloy dogbones before I build my M18.

As for the DTM X4, I got a bearing set for it and I've sourced some spare pinions and spur gears.
The only thing I want for it now is a decent Lexan bodyshell...

As for the unused brushless, I have three Micro RS4's, so I am sure I can "coax" the Mamba into one of those :p

TNB
2004.09.03, 11:33 AM
I believe URC posts a lot on RCU & 1/18th. I post on RCU and have brought over a few members to MZR, but I seldom visit 1/18th. I can also get the 8000kv for $10.00 cheaper with free domestic shipping, which I may just go order now since last night I was just playing with the new charger and thermo probe. At RCU some of the members already have the Mamba in the Micro RS4 and that is where the link is to the other seller. One RCU member is also trying for the speed record and is from your neck of the woods. ;)

Mondo
2004.09.03, 01:58 PM
One RCU member is also trying for the speed record and is from your neck of the woods. ;)
That guy also frequents YourMicro (http://www.yourmicro.com/forums) where I also hang out.
Winter is en route here and it's coming quickly, so he'd better set his speed record ASAP otherwise we'll wait 'till 2005

TNB
2004.09.03, 03:14 PM
He is shooting for 2005. If I recall correctly, he claims to have reached 93 mph so far. I also just ordered the Mamba 8000kv. It was $130.99 shipped. That's about $41.00 cheaper than if I would have purchased it locally. :D

arch2b
2004.09.03, 03:34 PM
mondo, do you prefer the rs4 or the m18 more? i see rs4's all the time on ebay but hardly ever see m18's

Mondo
2004.09.04, 04:26 AM
mondo, do you prefer the rs4 or the m18 more? i see rs4's all the time on ebay but hardly ever see m18's

Arch,

To be quite hoest, the M18 hasn't been assembled yet. I bought the following hops ups so far:



CF Chassis
Alloy Heastsink motor mount
CF Centre Shaft
Mamba Brushless
40MHz (FM) RX
TRC Mounted foams
HPI 150mm Corvette C5R Bodyshell


Now before putting this together, I am awaiting two ball-diffs and alloy dogbones from URC (http://www.unitedrc.com)
Hopefull these should arrive next week, then I can build this baby.

TNB
2004.09.04, 07:14 PM
Arch2b,
The Xray M18 is shaft driven while the HPI Micro RS4 is belt driven. That is one of the main differences so many times that is how people make their choice. Then again, some people may just want a RTR so they pick the RTR version of the Micro RS4.

TNB
2004.09.11, 09:33 PM
After installing the Mamba 8000Kv motor and speed control in my Xray M18, I took it out today for a spin on concrete, asphalt, ozite, and on a 4L RCP Track. :)

The bottom line is I had fun drifting on the ozite, but I couldn't get on it anywhere since the tires would swell and catch on the lexan body. I checked three LHS and only one of them had tires, but no foams. The salesperson I spoke to at one of the LHS races HPI Micro RS4s and even complained about the tire situation at the store he works at which had "some" tires.

Consequently, I plan to wait until Hobby Visions and check out the stock. If I don't end up with a helicopter or tires, I'll place an order for tires along with a bunch of other items from overseas. BTW Mondo, it is my understanding that there is already a C6 body for the M18. :D

Mondo
2004.09.13, 02:40 AM
BTW Mondo, it is my understanding that there is already a C6 body for the M18. :D

This Thread this becoming more M18/Micro RS4 orientated.

I have a HPI C5R bodyshell for my M18. Not too sure about the C6 though..

TNB
2004.09.13, 02:49 AM
There are photos at RC Mart. The site claims that it is the first C6 to hit the R/C market.

davisdavis
2004.09.13, 07:26 AM
i only have experience with mini Zs and gas cars.
for my gas cars, the receiver is operated by a saperated battery pack.

so what about in the 3 Lipo setup in the 1:18 that u guys mentioned??
do you just connect the 3 cell Lipo directly to both the receiver and esc???

TNB
2004.09.13, 11:03 AM
The LiPo connects to the brushless speed control. The brushless speed control then connects to the receiver. Same type set-up as other electric cars other than the fact an actual brushless speed control is required with a brushless motor. Basically, the "speed control" controls the throttle (aero controls are also different from car ESCs), regulates the voltage, and different modes, i.e. race, depending on the speed control. The Mamba ESC also has a voltage cut-off which is important when using LiPos. The nitro set-up simply needs the battery pack to power things such as the servos while the electric cars just use the same batteries used for power.

There are a few photos in Gallery TNB.

davisdavis
2004.09.13, 12:08 PM
thanks TNB, originally i thought that 2 packs of batteries will be needed...
one for ESC one for receiver and servo, haha~ :p

herman
2004.09.25, 12:47 AM
hmmm...

this is thread is becoming interesting... but i will have to post a bit later... assembled mine... took it out for a couple of runs... nnniiiicccceeee...

mondo can you pls hold onto that shredder for me? will be sending you an email soon... :D

TNB
2004.12.30, 11:25 AM
Mondo,

Did you ever get that brushless in the ABC DTMx4 and if so, did you modify the stock mount or did you purchase one elsewhere--alloy? I'm just wondering since I purchased an ABC DTMx4 from NML and have yet to purchase the electronics. I was also thinking about using a 2-cell Lipo and a lower Kv brushless unlike my Xray M18 set up. I haven't checked around Tiny RC yet either since I remembered this older thread.

My Work-in-Progress ABC DTMx4 (http://mini-zracer.com/albums/album552/DTMx4bodykit.jpg)

Mondo
2004.12.30, 04:12 PM
Mondo,

Did you ever get that brushless in the ABC DTMx4 and if so, did you modify the stock mount or did you purchase one elsewhere--alloy? I'm just wondering since I purchased an ABC DTMx4 from NML and have yet to purchase the electronics. I was also thinking about using a 2-cell Lipo and a lower Kv brushless unlike my Xray M18 set up. I haven't checked around Tiny RC yet either since I remembered this older thread.

My Work-in-Progress ABC DTMx4 (http://mini-zracer.com/albums/album552/DTMx4bodykit.jpg)

TNB,

Greetings from Africa (I am on vacation)

The problem with the Brushless is that the motor can is totally round, whereas the 180 that ships with the X4 has two flat sides - a-la a 130 MZ motor.
I wasn't too confident about the clearance between the motor can and centre shaft without having to get a custom motor mount made up.
Another area of concern is that the DTM X4's plastic gears will not withstand the brute force of a "low end" 5600kV Mamba Brushless, and lastly, the heat generated by Mambas is incredible, as you know. I don't know how the X4 will hold up to all that heat under such a small bodyshell..

Horizon seem to be the only HS with a steady supply of critical DTM X4 parts too, so I am not going "risk" a Mamba setup on it. Remember, I do live in the UK, so parts can (sometimes) be an issue when they are needed in a hurry
It flies with the 180 motor, believe you me, you will not be disapointed with it's stock motor performance.

TNB
2004.12.30, 04:53 PM
Say hi to the tiggers for me and thanks for taking the time to respond.

I believe it is United RC that makes a custom center mount for the M18--I was thinking something like that may be an option. I also planned to lower the timing on the Mamba to hopefully, reduce the heat (as well as cut back to a 2-cell lipo). Palmer suggested the timing change when running the 8000Kv/3-cell lipo setup in the M18. I also planned to "vent" the ABC body.

I hadn't really considered the stock plastic gears since I'm still running the stock plastic gears on the M18. I guess I would have after I trashed one set. ;)

It's just that since they are building a new on-road track here, I'd like to show up with a very speedy and great handling 1/24th scale, hoping that more "side" local interest will be tossed towards the Kyosho Mini-Z.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.03, 09:06 AM
TNB...mind if I ask what you paid for the DTMx4 from nomotorlimit? I was thinking about one...

cam2
2005.01.03, 09:52 AM
TNB...mind if I ask what you paid for the DTMx4 from nomotorlimit? I was thinking about one...

ruknd i never got around to building my x4. its still new in the box if you want i'll bring them the next time we gtg.

TNB
2005.01.03, 11:01 AM
TNB...mind if I ask what you paid for the DTMx4 from nomotorlimit? I was thinking about one...
Since I purchased it from NML in person, the price may be slightly different if he were to ship one to you. However, I think he may have some for sale on eBay if you don't get one from Cam2 or from overseas.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.03, 03:15 PM
ruknd i never got around to building my x4. its still new in the box if you want i'll bring them the next time we gtg.
that'd be cool...by chance what did you pay for the pair?

cam2
2005.01.03, 04:01 PM
i payed 120 plus shipping for the sp and x4 with some loose cells and two 180 motors. i'll give ya the x4 and motors for 40. i actually put the sp together today over time i'll add electronics slowly. not sure how i'm gonna fit a receiver esc and servo on it though.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.01.03, 04:23 PM
i payed 120 plus shipping for the sp and x4 with some loose cells and two 180 motors. i'll give ya the x4 and motors for 40. i actually put the sp together today over time i'll add electronics slowly. not sure how i'm gonna fit a receiver esc and servo on it though.
sold! I'll grab it at the next gtg...if you want the cash now I'd be happy to meet a night or send a paypal transfer...

It liiks tight...a novak spy and mini hitec servo seems to work...also an IWaver board might not be a bad inexpensive option.
thanks... :D

cam2
2005.01.03, 05:22 PM
no rush for the money but if you want we can meet up somewhere and i'll give you the kit. we should probably move this over to the nyc thread.