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View Full Version : Reflex 4play prototype evolution...


ruf
2005.05.13, 12:17 AM
Well if anyone ever wondered why I have "4play" under my name, here's the answer. On top of being a pervert, I've been working on a prototype chassis. A lot of the guys at the track have seen me messing with them so I figured there was no point in keeping it under wraps now. Especially considering that the design and methodology have changed so much. These are really just interesting design studies.

Originally it started out as a 4-link RM 94mm chassis - the 4playevo1. That was butchered in an ill-advised attempt at a redesign.

The evo2 was a 4-link MM 94mm chassis. The beauty of it was that by adjusting the turnbuckle links, you could make it 98mm or whatever you wanted. The downside was too much adjustability. You could seriously tweak the car if you weren't careful and it didn't like to get hit. It wouldn't break, but it would tweak. I don't have the new 98mm "shock tower" plate in this pic so the dampers don't line up. The thing was so tall that it looked like an upside-down hydroplane. :rolleyes:

KISS was the theory behind the evo3. I was getting more driving time with regular plastic Mini-Z's, and I was learning what worked and what didn't. This car was built as h-plate MM 94mm chassis. Later it was changed to 98mm. Probably the best car to date.

evo4? hmmm... ;) It's in testing right now. Existing parts compatability has been one of the design mantras of the 4play chassis. The evo4 should take that to another level, though maybe not in the way that most would think...

pchan0
2005.05.13, 01:28 AM
Nice, blue tape too!!! :cool:

ruf
2005.05.13, 01:53 AM
Haha! That's left over from my 1/10 and 1/12 days. We used strapping tape to hold in the batteries because it was the lightest method and didn't tweak the chassis like a battery brace could. Regular strapping tape was useless, but the good stuff was worth it's weight in gold. Blue, red, black whatever I could get ahold of. Usually came from overseas.

pchan0
2005.05.13, 02:02 AM
Haha! That's left over from my 1/10 and 1/12 days. We used strapping tape to hold in the batteries because it was the lightest method and didn't tweak the chassis like a battery brace could. Regular strapping tape was useless, but the good stuff was worth it's weight in gold. Blue, red, black whatever I could get ahold of. Usually came from overseas.

Yup, I'm using them on my Pro 4 right now. In purple of course, they can last a whole day of racing. :cool:

Be back on topic, so will we ever see this car/chassis conversion in production?

ruf
2005.05.13, 03:15 AM
If everything works out ok, then yah. The funny thing is that I was into Mini-Z when they first came out with the MR01. Bought the first Skyline that my LHS had. The thing handled like poo. Then I got the F1 and the OL. I got out of r/c right before the MR02 was released, so I had no idea how it handled. My buddy dragged me back into the hobby, but I hated the MR01, so I figured that I'd just make my own chassis. It was a pita to work the teething problems out of it and race at the same time so I bought a stock MR02. After working on the stupid plastic chassis car for the past few months, I've got it pretty strapped. I wanted to make sure that anything I came out with was an improvement over stock. There are some design characteristics on the MR02 that I don't like, and I think that I've addressed them but not as well as I would like. The prototypes handled better than the MR02, but not consistently and they were too complicated for the average user. Later versions have gradually been simplified in the effort to get closer to a true "production" model. Hopefully the evo4 will live up to the promise of the theories behind it.

Twenty-Se7en
2005.05.13, 07:36 AM
Pretty cool there ruf

El Tigre
2005.05.13, 12:36 PM
Holy crap, did you ever go out of your way to make it different. I would definitely buy one, you could even offer a setup board for it. Thats the most original design since the 3 shock thingie the Swede's were toting around here.

ruf
2005.05.13, 12:47 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys. I originally got the idea from GT cars where they have ridiculously long trailing arms. Then I think gulfclk had already done one like this but with shorter links pointing the other way. I've toyed with the idea of redesigning the 4-link car. The latest iteration has the upper and lower links on a different axis for more stiffness. I wanted to have them equal effective radius so that there would be no pod "jacking", effectively anti-squat, but I've revised my opinion on that so I might end up with unequal length links. We'll see how it turns out. Probably wouldn't sell it though. One of the really cool things about the 4-link car was it's high roll center actually made the main chassis act as a pendulum. When the car would roll, the batteries would actually be "swung" inward, carrying the weight farther on the inside. I was so intrigued by this weight shift since it is so much like leaning on a motorcycle. Cool stuff.

ruf
2005.05.13, 01:18 PM
Oh and on a side note, the name 4play had a combination of influences.

1) The original chassis design was 4-link.
2) 4 wheels - I think everyone names a car "something+4" nowadays.
3) Foxxy Love from Drawn Together - "not for real real, just for play play."
4) play - that's really what we do with these things. Trying to emphasize the fun factor, regardless of the technical aspects of the chassis.
5) I'm a perv. Just the thought of ambiguous meaning in a "wholesome, family environment" like Mini-Z makes me giggle. See "got kittens"... :D

ruknd@aol.com
2005.05.13, 05:11 PM
Oh and on a side note, the name 4play had a combination of influences.

1) The original chassis design was 4-link.
2) 4 wheels - I think everyone names a car "something+4" nowadays.
3) Foxxy Love from Drawn Together - "not for real real, just for play play."
4) play - that's really what we do with these things. Trying to emphasize the fun factor, regardless of the technical aspects of the chassis.
5) I'm a perv. Just the thought of ambiguous meaning in a "wholesome, family environment" like Mini-Z makes me giggle. See "got kittens"... :D
6) the ghey bastard stole the design right off my bedside table, molested my cat too....bwahh

come on chen...those are months old...keep the wheels of productivity turning they are going in the right direction.

ruf
2005.05.13, 05:21 PM
Yah, I had to take a little break from them. I was cutting like 2 new chassis per week. it was driving me nuts as well as killing my lungs and making me itchy all the time. I was constantly wrenching on the car at the races and consequently sucking. Stuff would just break all the time. I'd get like 5 laps in at a time and end up using the race strictly for track time. On top of that I was just getting back into it, so I didn't have any of my reflexes or timing back. Talk about a total hack. :rolleyes: I just got tired of people saying, "didn't that guy used to own the hobby shop? Why is he so slow?", so I got some MR02's and an F1 to drive for the last few months. Learned a lot about them, and how vehicle dynamics behave at this scale and on this surface. Still learning something new every week. Kind of cool. I haven't really been this excited about r/c since I first got into it. I'm happy to report that I'm back in ass-kicking mode in terms of driving, so now it's time to go back to the drawing board and get the evo4 rolling. :D

ruf
2005.05.13, 05:26 PM
6) the ghey bastard stole the design right off my bedside table, molested my cat too....bwahhThe only thing I stole off your bedside table was that 12" rubber dong. And your cat was asking for it, looking at me all sexy like that.

ruknd@aol.com
2005.05.13, 05:34 PM
The only thing I stole off your bedside table was that 12" rubber dong. And your cat was asking for it, looking at me all sexy like that.
damn that's where it went. i guess you're liking on it seing as you kept it...

ruf
2005.05.13, 05:43 PM
Yeah, you know me. All scientific and stuff. I like to have something to compare with.

DogbreathRacing
2005.05.31, 04:28 PM
I don't think he kept it....judging from your cats' behavior I would take a closer look there, you might find what you lost........... :eek:


One perv on a forum is never enough

ruf
2006.06.19, 10:55 PM
Well it's been over a year. I've finally gotten off my butt and completed the final evolution of the 4play prototype. It's maiden voyage will be at this weekend's IMSC race. It will be the last one since I will no longer have much time to do development work. If it sucks, it will die an obscure death. If it kicks ass, I might bring it to production.

color01
2006.06.20, 02:19 AM
if it sucks, can i have it? :D (i'm not really kidding, if i can draw up the cash and if the price is right...)

but seriously, i'm looking forward to some of these pictures. the last iteration was good (disk damper included, very cool). ;)

kittysniper101
2006.06.20, 10:09 AM
looks good ruf I like how the batteries are postioned toward the center more, that should give it less lean through the turns

ruf
2006.06.20, 10:52 AM
color01 - Haha, last time I let one of these out of my sight, it came back in pieces... :p Thanks though. I have a good feeling about this one, but it may not exactly be what you guys are expecting.

kittysniper101 - On our old test track, we used the Losi red disks/dots to mark off corners. I love those dots. Very reminiscent of the old plow disks we used at the track I first started out at. Whereas the MR02 would bicycle or even roll if you clipped the edge of the dot right (about 1/3 to 1/2 of the car on the dot), the 4playevo3 would just ride the bumps with a very low attitude/angle. I'm hoping that this version will do the same.

ruf
2006.06.23, 03:00 PM
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/gallery/DSC02060.JPG

Details coming soon...

edit: funny how you can post pics in the "Events" forum, but you can't in the "Gallery" forum... :p

Spoon
2006.06.23, 03:17 PM
edit: funny how you can post pics in the "Events" forum, but you can't in the "Gallery" forum... :p

Yeah I mentioned that a while ago,
here (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20783)

Looking forward to the details. Looks like a lot of F1 going on there, right down the the Atomic Pod and damper.

ruf
2006.06.23, 03:24 PM
There is a lot of F1 going on. Anyone who has read der manifesto :p about MR02 vs F1 on my website knows that I'm partial to certain design features of that chassis. A ridiculous amount of thought and experimentation went into this before the KISS principle dawned on me. I think I've managed to incorporate all of the features that I wanted to while keeping fragile, labor-intensive, one-off parts count low and off-the-shelf compatibility high. More details later. Too much to scribble down. :p

marc
2006.06.23, 05:58 PM
So was this about RC cars, or something perverted? Anyway, great chassis. I like seeing people tear up their Mini-Z's and making something of their own. I'm still designing my Hot Rod chassis in my head. You have to go searching for the thread, but I've posted an idea for a Hot Rod based chassis a while ago. Still working on it. Oh, you can find it in the off topic section.

Flashsp-2
2006.06.23, 08:36 PM
Looks very good, I particularly like the mr02/F1 hybrid. I remember a while ago reading your F1 vs mr02 comparison, and and I definitely like what you have done with the positive aspects of the F1. Good work, now let's see some pricing and availability :D .....

color01
2006.06.23, 08:49 PM
ruf,

that's beautiful. so you basically took the F1's positives and put it all into a 98mm wheelbase. awesome x1000. :)

just two concerns:

1) iwaver front end?
2) iwaver servo? goodness! :p

builthatch
2006.06.23, 09:41 PM
ruf,

that's beautiful. so you basically took the F1's positives and put it all into a 98mm wheelbase. awesome x1000. :)

just two concerns:

1) iwaver front end?
2) iwaver servo? goodness! :p

the iwaiver parts could be reproduced to a higher quality and tolerance spec and the servo i'm sure can be sourced from one of the reliable names in the servo biz...there are some pretty incredible micro servos out now.

color01
2006.06.23, 10:47 PM
i'm thinking blue bird BMS-303...you?

and you're right too about reproducing the iwaver front end... i just wonder how pricey it would be, unless you had connections or something.

i just realized... F1 flex plates are longer and further spaced than the respective piece of h-plate... which means tweak is much harder to achieve/much easier to adjust out! brilliant, that ruf is.

builthatch
2006.06.23, 10:52 PM
i'm thinking blue bird BMS-303...you?

and you're right too about reproducing the iwaver front end... i just wonder how pricey it would be, unless you had connections or something.

i just realized... F1 flex plates are longer and further spaced than the respective piece of h-plate... which means tweak is much harder to achieve/much easier to adjust out! brilliant, that ruf is.

haha...all asian guys have overseas manufacturing connections, don't they?

:p :p :p

lfisminiz
2006.06.25, 08:58 PM
Joe, looks cool. Cant wait for a run report on it. :eek: ;) :D

arch2b
2006.06.25, 09:07 PM
i like the kit bash prototype :) i would be interested in building one of those myself if i had the iw-02 parts.

how hard was it to chop the f1/iw to make that?

i too am looking forward to reading your review of it's performance

ruf
2006.06.26, 11:19 AM
Flashsp-2: thanks for the kind words. We'll see how it all pans out.

color01:
1) Iwaver front end = crap. More on that later.
2) Iwaver servo = beyond repair. I may be dumb enough to buy Iwaver alloy parts, but I'm not about to try Iwaver electronics. That is a Futaba 3107 servo with the driver circuitry gutted. I have no experience with the Bluebird servos, but I tend not to race spec sheets. The Futabas 310x series are the absolute best I've tried in this size. I am trying to justify buying the new KO PDS-3014 just for the metal gears. The digital driver would be scrapped when using a mini-z PCB, but the benefits could be returned with the use of an ADband board.

builthatch - you racist sonnova... us asian guys also make half-way decent chassis, no? :p Seriously, I am working with a few people to see about reproducing the Iwaver parts to somewhat respectable tolerances. The were almost unusable as is, and the prices that they charge are comparable to other "quality" Mini-Z aftermarket manufacturers. I can't believe that they can get away with that sort of quality/$...

lfisminiz - full report coming soon. I've also made some headway on an all narrow MA010 setup! :)

arch2b - having experience with architectural models, chopping the F1 chassis should be a cakewalk. The conversion plates (there's an upper servo deck in the works) are difficult to get square. If you're off by 0.5mm, the car will end up being perfect for oval... The Iwaver stuff presents the easiest and the hardest part of this conversion. The components bolt right on, but they are so sloppy and out of spec, it's ridiculous. The left knuckle had 1 degree of camber, while the right one had 0 degree. The holes for the tie rod screws were drilled at and angle backward and to the left by maybe 5 degrees. The slop in the knuckle AND the suspension tower combined to give me about -1 to 1 degree of camber on one side and 0 to 2 degrees on the other. Great for precision work... :rolleyes: I ended up using the plastic tie rod since it seemed to bind up less against the screws and act as a sway bar. It also afforded me a little more compliance in the hopes of not stripping my 8th servo... Needless to say, it took quite a bit of work for the Iwaver parts to become functional. More later.

arch2b
2006.06.26, 12:02 PM
could you not reduce the iwaver plastic slop with aluminum replacement parts? either iwaver or gpm.... it will add weight but may be cheaper than having the same peices made to higher tolerances. your the expert though so i'm looking to you for the answer :p

ruf
2006.06.26, 12:40 PM
That's the issue. The alloy is sloppier than the plastic. Does GPM make parts for the Iwaver? I'd even welcome their haphazard QC over this stuff...

rlc77
2006.06.26, 05:45 PM
Bummer..... :( I was hoping the review would be positive. Looking forward to further details and hopefully a solution. I would like to build one of them. :D

arch2b
2006.06.26, 05:50 PM
That's the issue. The alloy is sloppier than the plastic. Does GPM make parts for the Iwaver? I'd even welcome their haphazard QC over this stuff...
that is horrible :eek: and people wonder why we criticize iwaver....

i'll check, i had just recently seen a full alloy catalogue for iwaver and it wasn't from iwaver.

ruf
2006.06.26, 06:00 PM
Bummer..... :( I was hoping the review would be positive. Looking forward to further details and hopefully a solution. I would like to build one of them. :DThere is no review as of yet! :) I haven't finished writing it. I'm still gathering my thoughts from the weekend, but my overall impressions were very positive with even more potential. Between this and the AWD, there's a lot swimming in my head. I just posted a few quick answers to address the questions posted here. Unfortunately, most asked about the Iwaver stuff, and I'm not one to sugarcoat the truth. I had my reservations about using those parts from the get go, and most of those fears turned out to be real. But Iwaver also offers the very real benefit of off-the-shelf availability. As for their negative attributes, there is always a solution. It just may not be an easy one. :D

ruf
2006.06.26, 06:04 PM
i had just recently seen a full alloy catalogue for iwaver and it wasn't from iwaver.That's great news! Keep us posted...

color01
2006.06.27, 01:25 AM
well, if the parts list is from radioshack, might not be so great...

ruf- i'm not sure about your size preferences, but according to the motto lighter = better... there's two really nice servos i think you should consider instead of blowing money on a digital one. one is a cirrus cs-4.4, i used it in my Xwaver. it's strong and fast, i love it. another is the blue bird bms-303; i've been reading around, haven't seen a single complaint other than the an early-batch servo frying the board (which isn't applicable because we/you remove it). that thing's friggin tiny as well.

i assume the crappy iwaver parts means you haven't been able to drive it then, huh.

builthatch- i'm asian. if i had all the manufacturing connections you say i should have, i'd have gotten my 3D CAD crap off the computer by now. (i still wish for it. :rolleyes: )

ruf
2006.06.27, 09:57 AM
Lighter is better unless it sacrifices reliability or speed. I've tried the Cirrus servos and they are nowhere near as fast/strong as the Futaba. The KO should be even better in these regards. Spec sheets lie. As for weight, once the driver boards are stripped out these things weigh nothing anyways. The servo is one of the last places I would try to save weight. It is your connection to the car.The Futaba is only $25, less expensive than the Cirrus.

I worked around the crappy Iwaver parts already. The car drove great even with a few silly oversights due to the rush this weekend. Just needs a little more track time to dial in the setup.

marc
2006.06.27, 11:47 AM
I don't know why you all are so down on Iwaver. My Iwaver 02 has been great, in fact it seems to handle better than my MR02 at the moment! It's lighter weight, and had a smoother suspension. Sure the electronics aren't all that great, but I've had no problems with it yet. Well, except for the fact that when I put my Murcielago body on it, it seems to move the batt's in such a manner that it turns off the car.
I've found the quality of Iwaver's alloy to be great so far. No problems there! I'm happy with my Iwaver and as I said before I can't wait for the 02M to come out!

ruf
2006.06.27, 03:06 PM
I'll try to be as nice about this as I can. I don't mean to put anyone down. If you are just putting around your kitchen floor, the Iwaver stuff is great. If you want to ignore these deficiencies, by all means be my guest. By your own admission, your cars are primarily shelf queens, and the Iwaver components are perfectly suitable for that. If I wanted a static model, I wouldn't mind using Iwaver stuff either. For high-level competition, Iwaver is unacceptable. We are talking about 4-5 degrees of slop AND binding. That just makes a car handle like dump, completely inconsistent from lap to lap and corner to corner.

If you want to blindly champion Iwaver, more power to you. Just do it elsewhere. This thread is about FIXING the Iwaver components, through careful rework or potentially remanufacturing the parts in question. If anything you should be SUPPORTING us in trying to find solutions that could make Iwavers better.

ruf
2006.06.28, 12:37 PM
First of all, let me preface this review by saying that Iím a bonehead. I thought I had figured out the Iwaver front end but it bit me in the ass. First of all, letís deal with what worked.

1) The kingpins were loose in the alloy front suspension tower. Iíve never seen this on any other suspension, stock Kyosho, JPL, etc. Unacceptable for a $17 part. This was easily fixed by lightly oiling the kingpin and gluing it into the tower. Then punch it out. The oil should keep the glue on the tower and not the kingpin.

2) The alloy knuckles were just as sloppy if not worse. I didnít have time to deal with it, but I may drill out the holes and use a delrin inserts from another set of knuckles I have laying around. Another option is to try the plastic steering knuckles to see if they are any tighter.

3) The screw holes in the alloy knuckles for the tie rod were drilled and tapped at an angle, which is ugly, but not really of any consequence since the screws have to be run loose for the steering and suspension to work. As always with alloy, loctite is your friend.

4) These alloy knuckles were supposed to have 1 degree of camber, but with it seems that the left knuckle was closer to 0 degrees. It was tough to tell with all the slop. The left knuckle could move between -2 to 2 degrees and the right from -1 to 3 degrees by my eyeballÖ A set of pliers fixed this. I just bent the offending knuckle until it matched. Again, pretty unacceptable for $15Ö

5) The alloy tie rod is actually TIGHT! It was the single part that was actually manufactured to a decent tolerance. Unfortunately, it needs to be LOOSE in order not to bind with the unique steering system that Iwaver has decided to implement. I tried a plastic tie rod and that seemed to fix the problem. The softer plastic might save a few servo gears along the way, since the Iwaver servo saver was useless with the large output shafts of the 3107 and 3108 servos. It might work on the small output shaft of the 3103. Anyways, I might end up swapping to a ball joint system soon. Maybe even mount the servo at an angle and invert the servo horn 1/12 style to see if I can gain a little more body clearance.

6) Hereís where I boned it. The Iwaver steering system is actually a pretty decent design. The only problem is that the ďhumpĒ in the tie rod will not clear MOST bodies. I havenít found a body in my inventory yet that it will not hit. Best case scenario, you end up with an uptravel limiter/swaybar that is uneven from left to right. Worst case, you canít even get the body on (VDS). I donít know how the Iwaver guys do it. Maybe they just run with no front suspension compliance. Being that the VDS body that I had with me wasnít mine, I didnít feel like hacking a hole in the front end for clearance. I ended up shaving as much of the hump as I could without compromising too much strength. It still didnít clear the VDS body so I mounted an Enzo. With the rear body posts positioned for the VDS body, there was no way that it was going to work with the Enzo, so I just ran a strip of strapping tape under the car and up the sides to hold the body down. I THOUGHT I had enough clearance when I test fitted it, but I was wrong. With go-kart front suspension, the car still ran pretty dang good. It tracked straight and true and turned in very predictably with a slight tweak (probably due to the uneven nature of the tie rod which was now acting as a VERY stiff sway bar.) I will probably try to get the suspension working with the alloy tie rod so I can completely cut the top off of the hump and run it as a ďUĒ. I donít think the plastic tie rod would hold up very well to an open top design, but the alloy should do the trick if I can just get rid of the binding.

The servo response was EXCELLENT, faster than any Mini-Z that Iíve driven, keeping in mind that I havenít driven an ADband car yet. The rear end soaked up power just as I expected. With an Atomic T2, the car just rocketed away with no surprises. Even a well setup MR02 is a handful with this motor, but the F1 rear end just planted and launched. I will admit that I used the Atomic alloy F1 motor mount for the bling factor. Iím not a huge fan of the part, but I figured that it would appeal to more people and I had one laying around in my pit box. Originally, I didnít like it because of they way that it positions the motor. I thought that having the round portion of the can at the bottom would require you to raise the motor, compromising the CG. Turns out Atomic just slammed the thing on the deck. The motor is in the same position as the stock plastic motor mount, just rotated 90 degrees. With the F1ís larger diameter tires, this isnít an issue, but since I am using MR02 wheels and tires, ride height and tire sidewall become a factor. I wish that this motor mount had the eccentric axle bearing inserts of the Atomic MR02 L.C.G. motor mount. Using the latest GPM 8 degree rear tires, the motor rides about 1mm off the track surface. Pretty dang low. I was worried about it at first, but now Iím just happy with it! :D

That still doesnít address the lack of side springs with the Atomic F1 motor mount. I will be testing the chassis again next weekend with the stock plastic motor mount so that I can tune with side springs as well. I wonder if the molded diffuser actually does anything? I will have to cut a new F1 chassis since in a fit of manic cleanliness, I went ahead and chopped off the tabs that hold the tops of the rear springs since the Atomic motor mount had no accomodations for them. I will also have my own Atomic VDS and PN pancar bodies with the appropriate clearances for steering. I hope to get a true impression of the spring rates that I ballparked. Hopefully, the balance will be spot on. Wish me luck! See you at the track!

kittysniper101
2006.06.28, 01:13 PM
sounds like this thing will kick some serious tail once the front end is worked out, good job man

color01
2006.06.28, 05:36 PM
sounds great, ruf; do you think you could get away with inverting the tierod for more clearance? you might have to punch a hole in the chassis, but whatever works...

oh right: good luck!

PaulBoth
2006.06.29, 12:32 PM
Hey Ruf,

Excellent concept... but I have a small suggestion to fix your Iwaver problems.

Since you have a few spare front ends from the F1, why not use the top part as a hold down and make a flat carbon brace for the front of the car. You could then continue to use Kyosho quality components on the car. For the steering servo, use the same horn, but run a piece of bar down the full length so that it can activate the F1 link. This would also eliminate your problems with bodies not fitting properly.

Just an idea... may not work, but it shouldn't be that hard. Worst case you would need to have made a custom top brace... but that brace could also be used to hold down the servo or something.

PB

ruf
2006.06.29, 02:57 PM
The F1 front suspension tower would give you the incorrect track width requiring funny offsets on the front wheels. I already have issues with the amount of tire scrub that comes standard on the Mini-Z wheels. I have explored this option with past prototypes using both JPL upper tower bars and custom fiberglass tower bars. None of them were particularly robust. The beauty of the Iwaver design is that it is monoblock (think brake calipers). Very strong and very true if machined to the correct tolerances.

As for the F1 steering, it would require inverted pegs which wouldn't all that difficult. The thing with all Mini-Z tie rods is the amount of slop inherent to floating the knuckles. The ideal system would be a ball link system (essentially a heim joint steering rack a la larger-scale race cars), but I think the Iwaver system is working out better now. I chopped the top off of the plastic tie rod and it seems remarkably robust and with plenty of clearance for the Enzo body. We'll see if it holds up on the track. If not, then the alloy tie rod is on the chopping block next. I have yet to mock up another pan car body on it to see if it will fit.

PaulBoth
2006.06.29, 03:04 PM
Should have known that you would have thought of it already...

Great work though, looking forward to the finished product.

PB

ruf
2006.06.29, 05:12 PM
looking forward to the finished product.Me too! I'm getting a major itch to try this thing out now... :D

minittrackmann
2007.12.18, 04:43 PM
Has anything happened with this car? Pleaase lmk. I love the concept:)

Cody

ruf
2007.12.18, 08:01 PM
I've run the prototype a few times at Kenon, but I haven't been happy with the results. Just teething pains, as I really can't find anything wrong conceptually. Whether this car will ever materialize as a production car is probably a coin toss at this point. We've now got the manufacturing connections to get it done at a great price point and build quality, but lately we've been focusing more on AWD development.