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diets
2005.06.11, 06:50 PM
Lowering the speed of the overland, that's one of the most important parts on building a real cralwer.

I don't know how far you guy's are?

That's what we are doing in germany and austria!

This video shows the "speed" of the modified overland:
http://www.mitglied.lycos.de/Cooldragon2/NoPin.wmv

Here is a thread, which shows the different types of modifications
http://549.rapidforum.com/topic=102178968346

The two modifications, which perform best, are:

"Lemo Klotz Motor"
The Lemo-Klotz uses a worm gear, so it comes to a full stop at once, if you release the throttle.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/viktoria/ol.jpg


"Faulhaber Getriebe Motor"
The Faulhabermotor has a wide variety of gear boxes with different reduction values. Therefore you can choose the right gearbox, depending on your track.

http://www.consunddiets.de/public/rc/ol/motor/fgm-2.jpg


Both modifications are using different motors with reduction gear boxes. They are sold in germany. I don't know if you can get them in the usa as well.

diets - sometimes "slow" isn't slow enough :D

Rev.Chuck
2005.06.11, 09:55 PM
So, to clarify, these motors have a gear reduction in them?
I looked up Lemoklotz and found no US listings. But I really like the idea of just swapping in a motor rather than my present plan which is modify the rock crawler tranny to work with my OL motor and tranny. The rockcrawler(This is the Walmart toy) uses a worm gear pinion and three reduction gears. Mating the two would be bulky and a lot of work. I like the idea of a worm gear to keep the truck stopped when you let off the throttle. Time to do some looking around for a tiny gear reduction motor.

I can't read German so I had to Babelfish, pretty interesting but not to helpful :)

TrikeKid
2005.06.11, 10:14 PM
I was thinking along the lines of a gearmotor for ant weight robotics. the only problem with these motors is the smallest shaft is 3mm. Thats about twice the diameter of a 130. what system is the truck in the video using for reduction?

http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_ant_motors.html

Rev.Chuck
2005.06.11, 11:06 PM
I have spent a couple of hours looking and the best thing I have found so far is the Lego gear reduction motor, $17 from Lego.
There is a train shop in town. I am going to hit them up next time I have a day off. Many scale trains run a gear reduction, so maybe they will have something.

MrHawk
2005.06.12, 12:27 PM
Could you post the part numbers for those two motors? Shoulnd't be to costly to buy since I'm in sweden.

Been looking for these things for quite some time now, but everything else has been to big to fit under the H1 body, these two look just the right size :)

toyjunker
2005.06.12, 03:55 PM
VERY interesting!

I've been eyeing gear reduction motors for a while for another project, and had thought about trying one in an OL.

Cool stuff indeed. :D

The video didn't work for me, though. Looks like I get a redirect page at Lycos.

diets
2005.06.13, 08:22 AM
@toyjunker
For the video - just right click - then "save destination as"



Faulhaber-Glockenankermotor (that is the motor/gearbox combination i use)

The Homepage of the distributor is www.lemo-solar.de

There is no possibility to give you a direct link to the necessary parts - sorry.

Homepage: http://www.lemo-solar.de/default_1.htm

Then click on the following links:
"Modellbautechnik"

"Glockenanker-Motoren"

Scroll down, until you find the motor with the following descriptions:

Glockenankermotor 15 Ø x 16 mm
2 / 6 Volt / T=Welle 1,5 Ø x 6mm / E=Ritzel M. 0,2/9Z.
Art.-Nr.: 1516...S
27,00 EUR

http://www.lemo-solar.de/10790b.jpg



For the gearbox click on the link "Getriebe 0816-22/2" on top of the page
Scroll down, until you find the gearboxes with the following descriptions:

Stirnradgetriebe 15/1-22:1
17 mm Ø, für Motor 1516 E.., 1524 E..
Art.-Nr.: 15/1-22
9,90 EUR

Stirnradgetriebe 15/1-41:1
17 mm Ø, für Motor 1516 E.., 1524 E..
Art.-Nr.: 15/1-41
9,90 EUR

http://www.lemo-solar.de/10865b.jpg






The "Lemo-Klotz"

"Lemo-Klotz" is just a nickname for the ESCAP M915L

You can find it at "Glockenanker-Motoren" - scroll down to

Truck Trial - Antrieb für M 1:87 (Bausatz)
Micro - Glockenankermotor mit Getriebe 195:1
Art.-Nr.: MC 195
29,00 EUR

http://www.lemo-solar.de/11434b.jpg

You don't need the brass gear box extension

This is how you have to mount the ESCAP M915L
http://mitglied.lycos.de/viktoria/ol.jpg

There is a different motor - the ESCAP MU915L. It can be used as well, but need a different setting. It can't be used with a H1 body. So if you can get an M915L, this should be the better choice.

http://www.teufelsmal.de/pics/Escape/LEMO06.jpg
and the correspondig thread
http://549.rapidforum.com/topic=100278282659

The datasheet for the ESCAP motors

http://downloads.solarbotics.com/PDF/escap-mu915.pdf


Here is a link for the ESCAP MU915L http://www.solarbotics.com/products/index.php?scdfa-250100084-viewDetail-productzq3836zq4categoryzq37=true


diets - is not sure, if there are other distributors

toyjunker
2005.06.13, 09:34 AM
@toyjunker - For the video - just right click - then "save destination as"

Hmm... still not working for me. I've tried on two different Windows machines (both up to date), and one mac. No biggie.

Thank you very much for the addiitonal info on the motors, Diets. Very cool stuff!


:)

diets
2005.06.13, 10:20 AM
Hmm... still not working for me. I've tried on two different Windows machines (both up to date), and one mac. No biggie

Can you download the file?

I'm not sure, but i think it is compressed with divx.

diets - hopes this will help

Ninja
2005.06.13, 10:51 AM
you cant hotlink on tripod sites, tripod will shut your site down, as they have done here. this is the message i get hier wird gebaut

cooldragon2 Homepage

MrHawk
2005.06.13, 11:44 AM
Diets: Thanks for the details man :) Gonna have a closer look at it later.

Others: The video works fine you just have to go to http://mitglied.lycos.de/cooldragon2/ first and then just add NoPin.wmv to the link.

Ninja
2005.06.13, 12:06 PM
i still get the same message

diets
2005.06.13, 12:09 PM
To save the video - if you have the windows explorer - right click on then link for the video - a popup menu opens - then use the menu item for saving the destination (it is the third item) - this should work ???

http://www.mitglied.lycos.de/Cooldragon2/NoPin.wmv

it's a good example for the nssm-mod, as well :)

diets - this works on all my computers

toyjunker
2005.06.13, 12:12 PM
The video works fine you just have to go to... then just add NoPin.wmv to the link.

Superb. Now that is the slowness I seek. :D

Solarbotics has the ESCAP motors listed, but they are currently out of stock. I'm trying a couple of the Sanyo GM metal geared gearmotors they offer, though. I've been eying them for quite a while. This thread and that video were just the incentive I needed.

Rev.Chuck
2005.06.13, 03:41 PM
The Sanyo looks like it would almost drop in with just mods to the stock pinion to fit the shaft, and clearancing the housing. The GM3 looks like it would work pretty good with a worm gear on it. I have some plastic worm gears out of the Rockcrawlers so I might give one of those a try. 224:1 reduction plus the reduction from the worm should work pretty good.

diets
2005.06.13, 04:28 PM
The ESCAP motor works fine, but for a perfect ride you will probably need a transmitter with exponential throttle adjustment, for example the Kopropo Helios. With a standard transmitter (Kt-2 or KT-5) it is not so easy to drive at real slow speed. The Faulhaber motor has a better slow speed performance, it is easier to control.

For other gearboxes:
Keep in mind, that the diameter should be a maximum of 17 mm. Otherwise you will have massive problems to get a perfect gear mesh between the pinion gear at the new gearbox and the intermediate gear in the overland.

Here is another great video from cooldragon - using the faulhaber with the 41:1 gearbox.

www.mitglied.lycos.de/Cooldragon2/CRC_OL1.wmv


diets - crawling at reduced speed is crawling with increased fun

toyjunker
2005.06.13, 05:05 PM
The Sanyo looks like it would almost drop in with just mods to the stock pinion to fit the shaft, and clearancing the housing.

I've ordered the GM11 (75.7:1) and the GM13 (196.6:1). The 3mm shaft should fit pinions from larger RC cars with 1/8" (3.175mm) shafts well enough, so pinions shouldn't be hard to come by.

I guess I'll be patient and reserve my gearbox hacking session until the motors arrive. :(

toyjunker
2005.06.13, 05:18 PM
For other gearboxes:
Keep in mind, that the diameter should be a maximum of 17 mm. Otherwise you will have massive problems to get a perfect gear mesh between the pinion gear at the new gearbox and the intermediate gear in the overland.

At 29mm x 10mm x 12mm the sanyo motors look like good candidates.

Although with 75.7:1 and 196.6:1 ratios, I might be able to eliminate the idler gear completely. There's also a 297:1 version.

Here is another great video from cooldragon - using the faulhaber with the 41:1 gearbox.

www.mitglied.lycos.de/Cooldragon2/CRC_OL1.wmv

Sweet. What material is that that he is crawling on? It looks man made but very realistic. :cool:

diets
2005.06.15, 06:52 PM
What material is that that he is crawling on?

The structure is made with screen (???? that's the bable fish translation for "drahtgitter", what you can use to build a fence or a stable for small pets, made out of thin steel wire)

This structure is covered with newspapers and wallpaper glue.

The surface is a mixture of the following materials:
- tile adhesive
- sand
- small pebbles
- ponal (that's the brand, it is a special glue for wood, it is usually white )

(i hope you can guess what i mean, to many technical terms) :rolleyes:

Here is the thread, with a few more pics
http://549.rapidforum.com/topic=100678228664

I might be able to eliminate the idler gear completely
The perfect solution would be, eliminating/changing the diff gear as well. If you use a far smaller gear at the rear axle, you will gain additional ground clearance.

The main reason for getting stuck with the overland, is imho the limited ground clearance near/at the diff gear box cover.


diets - should have some more english lessons and a good dictionary

Rev.Chuck
2005.06.15, 07:40 PM
Your English is WAY better than my German. :)

toyjunker
2005.06.15, 10:48 PM
The structure is made with screen...
It looks great. Around here that screen is commonly known as 'chicken wire' since it is, as you said, used to make coops and cages.


The perfect solution would be, eliminating/changing the diff gear as well. If you use a far smaller gear at the rear axle, you will gain additional ground clearance.
Oddly enough, I picked up a few steel pinions at the shop today to try and do exactly that. Found some promising candidates, but their selection was pretty slim.


The main reason for getting stuck with the overland, is imho the limited ground clearance near/at the diff gear box cover.
I've previously gained about 1/8" clearance under TOYJNKR's diff by removing that low-hanging clip, grinding away a lot of material, then forming some hot sheet styrene over it, trimming and gluing it in place. It forms a sort of 'cup' that holds the bottom of the diff cover in place and serves the same purpose as the clearance-robbing clip. I'll ssee if I can post a pic in a while (I know... I say that a lot).

toyjunker
2005.06.15, 11:19 PM
Okay, a few quick shots to show the clearance job on the gearcase. One that shows TOYJNKR from the rear, and two that show another clearanced case next to a stock case.

Apologies for the poor quality pics. I'll shoot some better ones that show the modified cover in detail if anyone is interested.

toyjunker
2005.06.15, 11:40 PM
Two more showing the cup that is added to the gear cover. It has a lip that catches the bottom of the gearcase and holds it in place.

Bad pics again, but maybe you can get the idea.

With a smaller diff gear, you could gain a lot more. I plan on playing with that option when the Sanyo gearmotors arrive.

Rev.Chuck
2005.06.16, 12:07 AM
I decided to split the difference and went with the 134:1 Sanyo. Ordered just now, so it will be afew days before anything shows up to play with. I like that cutting away the clip. Think that will have to happen tomorrow. And maybe some other looking and trimming.

What about your tire trimming? I got another rockcrawler and plan to do a full rib removal on those tires, the present ones just have a rough clipping out of the ribs. It really does make an amazing grip improvement. I am going to try weighting the rears for more traction as well.

HammerZ
2005.06.16, 02:02 AM
I may have to look into that case mod. How do you attach that plastic to the gearplate, that is what type of glue do you use? I have done some stuff with CA glues. I already filed that bottom clip down some to run racer tires and wheels on my OL, the clip is still there but it is paper thin now. I lowered mine first, and then I will raise it later.

toyjunker
2005.06.16, 11:07 AM
What about your tire trimming? I got another rockcrawler and plan to do a full rib removal on those tires, the present ones just have a rough clipping out of the ribs. It really does make an amazing grip improvement. I am going to try weighting the rears for more traction as well.

I've been so busy I haven't made much progress on it.

The first thing I did after trimming the tire down was to use a 1/4" brass tube as a punch to cut holes in the ribs as far inside as I could. I wanted to weaken the ribs to allow the sidewal to flex, but not remove the support that the ribs provide for the open inner side of the tire. It works, but the big problem is the OL is just too light to deform the tires/sidewalls enough to matter. As soft as they are, the sidewalls of the XRM tires are just too thick for heavy duty flex.

So plan B was to cut two XRMS down to just the outer row of tread, cut the ribs out completely, then superglue the two halves together to make a tire with no ribs and inner and outer sidewalls. It works and looks great, but the stiff sidwalls are still a problem. I tried removing material from the inside of the sidewall to soften them up, but haven't found a good method to do so evenly and reliably.

Regardless I have some "cosmetic" upgrades to the XRMs that should prove entertaining for you all when I get around to my next pic session.

Even without any other mods, cut-down XRMs are still the best OL crawling tire there is. :)

toyjunker
2005.06.16, 11:09 AM
I may have to look into that case mod. How do you attach that plastic to the gearplate, that is what type of glue do you use? I have done some stuff with CA glues.

Yep, CA.


:)

TrikeKid
2005.06.16, 11:44 PM
I just did some cutting on my junk gearbox, and once I get some plasctic on to hold it together I should have at least 3mm more clearence under the diff gear. Toyjunker, you wouldnt be intrested in getting rid of that stock gear box would you?

toyjunker
2005.06.17, 09:03 AM
Toyjunker, you wouldnt be intrested in getting rid of that stock gear box would you?

No, I better keep all the spare parts I have.

Not that I break them while driving, but with the Sanyo motors on the way, I want to have a backup or two to experiment with.
:)

mini-z
2005.06.17, 02:13 PM
Very, very cool! :)

toyjunker
2005.06.20, 03:33 PM
Just got a nice little envelope from Solarbotics. :D

I'll post further developments in TOYJNKR's thread.

akura2
2005.09.24, 09:04 PM
You don't need the brass gear box extension

is there any way to get the brass gearbox extension separately?

I have the Lemo Motor that a friend in Germany bought for me and sent to me... but the motor has a pair of bevel gears in the bottom instead of the worm gear..and the bevel gears don't mesh (the gear attached to the motor keep sliding up towards the motor case and disengaging)

I would like the brass extension with the worm gear and axle

I'm using it for a TTTT project

Or do you know of anyone in Germany that can get me another motor that I can Paypal and have it sent?

Danke

diets
2005.09.29, 11:20 AM
Or do you know of anyone in Germany that can get me another motor that I can Paypal and have it sent?

I am from germany, and i will help you, if i can!

I found this gearbox (http://www.lemo-solar.de/11461b.jpg) at the homepage of LEMO-SOLAR.

http://www.lemo-solar.de/default_1.htm

Click on the link "Modellbautechnik", then "Glockenanker-Motoren und Getriebemotoren", scroll down a little bit, on the left hand side, you can find the gearbox, with additional informations


diets - maybe there are other suppliers

akura2
2005.10.09, 08:06 PM
I am from germany, and i will help you, if i can!

I found this gearbox (http://www.lemo-solar.de/11461b.jpg) at the homepage of LEMO-SOLAR.

http://www.lemo-solar.de/default_1.htm

Click on the link "Modellbautechnik", then "Glockenanker-Motoren und Getriebemotoren", scroll down a little bit, on the left hand side, you can find the gearbox, with additional informations


diets - maybe there are other suppliers
Thank you Diets... I went to that site before but they don't ship to the USA...and they don't take Paypal or credit cards...:(

diets
2005.10.10, 11:47 AM
Thank you Diets... I went to that site before but they don't ship to the USA...and they don't take Paypal or credit cards...:(

You have mail!

diets

akura2
2005.10.21, 12:15 AM
You have mail!

diets

you have mail back...:D