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GREGDGR81
2010.09.08, 06:07 PM
Goldust should be in the Hackstreet Boys! He hack me so hard that my body and came flying off. See you guys tonight.

Slapstick10
2010.09.08, 08:34 PM
Oh and Rob B ......TQ's mini coop!

EMU
2010.09.09, 11:51 AM
I wonder if there is enough room to put a real life based layout down at Action... Click the pic for the link to other tracks...
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/Tracks/DoningtonPark.jpg (http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=392864&postcount=77)

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 12:12 PM
that layout looks really fast if im correct to say that and sick

ActionRC
2010.09.09, 01:07 PM
Tom would be more of an 'honorary' Hackstreet Boy - but I have my share of hacks from him - as he does from me! :cool:

EMU - This track is cool, and the dimensions show that it would fit, but a completely two-tile track would be awful! There's such little room to race, pass, etc. We (well, I) would be in the boards all race. I would like the layout if there were some three-tile sections in the straights or corner exits at the very least, which is possible with modification. It leaves a lot of open space, and I always try to maximize the space I could use, but I'll keep it in mind. I loved driving this track on TOCA on my PS2!

Just so everyone knows, Johnathan's father Tim was in a very bad boating accident in Lake George two nights ago. I spoke to Johnathan last night, and his dad will be okay, but he is severely injured. All of his ribs are broken, his knees are broken, his spleen collapsed, and he suffered cuts to his face, among other things. He is conscious, able to communicate, and has his wits and sense of humor about him, but he's in bad shape. The doctors say he will recover in several weeks, but he is lucky to be alive. Please keep him and his family in your thoughts and prayers. This will be a difficult time for Johnathan and his family. :(

On a better note, we had another nice turnout last night, and many great races! It was great to have Richie and his son Nicholas in the house from Brooklyn Hobbies, among many other regulars - 21 in all! The new points series is off to a good start! Points will be updated shortly. I had a blast! :)

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 01:26 PM
My hopes are for Johnathons father to recover How did it happen

EMU
2010.09.09, 02:22 PM
I wish a speedy recovery... Im glad to hear that he will be ok.

As far as the layout is concerned, it wouldnt have to be an exact replica, we can increase the width for certain sections as need be... I would like to drive a layout that is based on a real life course, I think it would be cool :)

EMU
2010.09.09, 02:23 PM
I wish a speedy recovery... Im glad to hear that he will be ok.

As far as the layout is concerned, it wouldnt have to be an exact replica, we can increase the width for certain sections as need be... I would like to drive a layout that is based on a real life course, I think it would be cool :)

Fifty7
2010.09.09, 02:32 PM
Tom would be more of an 'honorary' Hackstreet Boy - but I have my share of hacks from him - as he does from me! :cool:

EMU - This track is cool, and the dimensions show that it would fit, but a completely two-tile track would be awful! There's such little room to race, pass, etc. We (well, I) would be in the boards all race. I would like the layout if there were some three-tile sections in the straights or corner exits at the very least, which is possible with modification. It leaves a lot of open space, and I always try to maximize the space I could use, but I'll keep it in mind. I loved driving this track on TOCA on my PS2!

Just so everyone knows, Johnathan's father Tim was in a very bad boating accident in Lake George two nights ago. I spoke to Johnathan last night, and his dad will be okay, but he is severely injured. All of his ribs are broken, his knees are broken, his spleen collapsed, and he suffered cuts to his face, among other things. He is conscious, able to communicate, and has his wits and sense of humor about him, but he's in bad shape. The doctors say he will recover in several weeks, but he is lucky to be alive. Please keep him and his family in your thoughts and prayers. This will be a difficult time for Johnathan and his family. :(

On a better note, we had another nice turnout last night, and many great races! It was great to have Richie and his son Nicholas in the house from Brooklyn Hobbies, among many other regulars - 21 in all! The new points series is off to a good start! Points will be updated shortly. I had a blast! :)


I saw the article on SI Live and i was almost going to call him before i emailed you but then i saw his F******k status as "going to Lake George" and i figured if he didnt know yet it wouldn't be a good idea for him to find out while he was driving up there.

About the layout - A lot of open space = plenty of room to marshall. All 2 tiles = gonna need more open space for marshalling. Maybe you could utilize the open space to make the 2 tile straights into 3 tiles but still keep the basic design.

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 02:42 PM
i do see ur point marty in widening the straight

Fifty7
2010.09.09, 02:46 PM
I wonder if there is enough room to put a real life based layout down at Action...

Theres a lot of cool layouts there but a lot of 2 tile stuff. Wow we got it easy at ARCMS. :D I like this one. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/Tracks/YBSlow.jpg Dont know how to do the pic like Eugene did

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 02:47 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/Tracks/YBSlow.jpg

to insert image like that on the quick reply option you click on the little icon at the top that looks like a mountain stamp and paste link in

Fifty7
2010.09.09, 03:01 PM
[
to insert image like that on the quick reply option you click on the little icon at the top that looks like a mountain stamp and paste link in

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/Tracks/YBSlow.jpg


Hey, I learned something today.........From Stu

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 03:26 PM
who would of ever thought

EMU
2010.09.09, 03:51 PM
I use [IMG] in front of the image and put [/XXX] XXX = IMG, but if I did it, it would think I am posting an image. If you click quote on my image, you will see the code, and how to use it in the message that is quoted. Same goes for quotes, links etc... One bracked to open, and the one with / to close the statement.

When I post images, most of the time I upload them to the forums, and then link the images into the post...

Marty, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKVpGPYmW3Y

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 03:54 PM
i figured it would be easier to explain it that way then the way u stated eugene lolz

KA2AEV
2010.09.09, 04:07 PM
I wish a speedy recovery... Im glad to hear that he will be ok.

As far as the layout is concerned, it wouldnt have to be an exact replica, we can increase the width for certain sections as need be... I would like to drive a layout that is based on a real life course, I think it would be cool :)

WOW Eugene now posting in 3D


Seriously if anyone has any contact with Jonathon
Pass along that he and his Family are in Team Golddusts Thoughts and
Prayersfor a speedy recovery

KA2AEV
2010.09.09, 04:10 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/Tracks/YBSlow.jpg

to insert image like that on the quick reply option you click on the little icon at the top that looks like a mountain stamp and paste link in

Stu Im not so sure that would fit in ARCMS
Anyone know the demensions?

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 04:16 PM
i was just posting martys picture for him

Number1
2010.09.09, 04:17 PM
Videos from last night's race:

A-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42yIIGdCNhE

B-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gdBYx9NE6Q

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 04:21 PM
thanks for posting video roland

KA2AEV
2010.09.09, 04:28 PM
Stu did I do that right?

Scrapper
2010.09.09, 04:34 PM
what do you mean

p.s. post 1000 baby

Fifty7
2010.09.09, 04:42 PM
I use [IMG] in front of the image and put [/XXX] XXX = IMG, but if I did it, it would think I am posting an image. If you click quote on my image, you will see the code, and how to use it in the message that is quoted. Same goes for quotes, links etc... One bracked to open, and the one with / to close the statement.

When I post images, most of the time I upload them to the forums, and then link the images into the post...

Marty, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKVpGPYmW3Y

Looks awesome but still too narrow:eek::eek::eek:

KA2AEV
2010.09.09, 04:50 PM
Stu
You've Got Mail:D

ActionRC
2010.09.09, 04:57 PM
I didn't know how to post pics either! Thanks, Stugotz!

I'd be happy to tweak one of the layouts to fit our space.

Slapstick10
2010.09.10, 10:54 AM
I can't wait till tonight! But thinking about tomorrow ..... Jackson anyone?

SaiTam
2010.09.10, 11:00 AM
New Type of corners suggestion:

Can we try a traiangular corner like this one in the near future?

http://www.minicarclubofcanada.com/mediac/450_0/media/webPanorama1.jpg

*photo taken from Canada Mini-z club

EMU
2010.09.10, 11:44 AM
That layout looks pretty interesting...

Scrapper
2010.09.10, 11:46 AM
eugene u and shafiq going tonightt

Fifty7
2010.09.10, 12:50 PM
That layout looks pretty interesting...

I'm going to keep it clean and just agree...yes it looks "interesting".

Quick question for anyone who knows....If you have a car with double stacked fets and the bottom one blows, the car should still run....No?

EMU
2010.09.10, 01:02 PM
It should... Although I have had a top fet blow, and desolder the bottom one from the heat.

Stu, Im planning on going, but dont think is room in the car for more people with everything Shafiq has in it.

Scrapper
2010.09.10, 01:07 PM
oh thats a bummer

SaiTam
2010.09.10, 01:21 PM
I'm going to keep it clean and just agree...yes it looks "interesting".

Quick question for anyone who knows....If you have a car with double stacked fets and the bottom one blows, the car should still run....No?

It should work but it's better off fixing it. It was burned out for a reason.

Fifty7
2010.09.10, 01:38 PM
It should... Although I have had a top fet blow, and desolder the bottom one from the heat.

Stu, Im planning on going, but dont think is room in the car for more people with everything Shafiq has in it.

It should work but it's better off fixing it. It was burned out for a reason.

OK I should have been more specific but didn't want to complicate it and now i will have to admit to trying to take the lazy way out. My brother has a mini z monster that he had a speedy 07 in with 3004 fets and the forward one blew. What i was going to do was solder a new fet right on top so i didnt have to bother trying to get the old one off without ruining the board. In my short mini z experience i have only changed 1 fet and i found getting the old one off was the hardest part

EMU
2010.09.10, 02:04 PM
You can use a snip, cut the legs off the fet and remove them individually. A little easier than removing the fet in one piece. I think removal is the harder part as well...

You could just cut the fet off, and solder the new fet to the old legs... although, I would remove them/the burnt fet.

Fifty7
2010.09.10, 02:06 PM
You can use a snip, cut the legs off the fet and remove them individually. A little easier than removing the fet in one piece. I think removal is the harder part as well...

You could just cut the fet off, and solder the new fet to the old legs... although, I would remove them/the burnt fet.

See, Thats why i ask here. I like the idea of cutting it off and pulling the legs off individually. Gonna try that. Thanks. See you tonight.

KA2AEV
2010.09.10, 03:54 PM
See, Thats why i ask here. I like the idea of cutting it off and pulling the legs off individually. Gonna try that. Thanks. See you tonight.

Actually that sounds as if that would hurt the FET alot
Cutting its Poor legs and then pulling them off :(
I hate the sound of screaming FETs in Pain! :eek:

Scrapper
2010.09.10, 03:58 PM
Is anyone passing through manhattan on their way back tonight that could give me a ride home if i went

Slapstick10
2010.09.12, 09:17 AM
There was a lot of chit chat about qualifiers and main placement. Here's the situation!

If you have an A main driver who has a bad night ...break downs, testing or so on and so forth. Lap wise he doesn't make the A main...Computer says he gets shuffled to the B main. Should said driver be put in A main anyway.

Also the B main has become extremely strong over the past couple of weeks. Al,Jack,Dominick,Danny and myself are putting up as much laps as the A main drivers. I guess you would say we are on the bubble as you would put it. 3 of the B main drivers qualified for A main friday and a few regular A main guys qualified for B main.

Whats your thought on placement....was this an odd situation or does this shine a light on a broken qualifing system thats old or out dated?

Whats your thoughts??:D

EMU
2010.09.12, 11:36 AM
There was a lot of chit chat about qualifiers and main placement. Here's the situation!

If you have an A main driver who has a bad night ...break downs, testing or so on and so forth. Lap wise he doesn't make the A main...Computer says he gets shuffled to the B main. Should said driver be put in A main anyway.

Also the B main has become extremely strong over the past couple of weeks. Al,Jack,Dominick,Danny and myself are putting up as much laps as the A main drivers. I guess you would say we are on the bubble as you would put it. 3 of the B main drivers qualified for A main friday and a few regular A main guys qualified for B main.

Whats your thought on placement....was this an odd situation or does this shine a light on a broken qualifing system thats old or out dated?

Whats your thoughts??:D
My feeling is this, you qualify where you qualify... I have always been a fan of the bump up. So if you have a poor qualify, you have can race your way to the A main. It also allows one B main qualifier to experience what the A main feels like.

One thing that is different than A and B main drivers, which has nothing to do with skill, but A main drivers are used to the way the other A main drivers race. We all drive with each other every week, and have a good idea where a good overtaking opportunity will be. The B main drivers know the other B main drivers very well, but dont really know where the A main drivers are faster.

Late in the stock A main, I was making a run on NAT, closing the gap. Going onto the straight, I usually stay pretty close to the center. As I hit the straight, Al was trying to stay low, I thought he was going to go wider, and we collided. Im not going to sit here and say that Al took me out, because I clearly rear ended him. I almost never run the outside on the straight, especially when making a pass. I might have been able to catch Nat, since I was less than a straight behind him at that point.

If I would have qualified in the B main, I might just take it as a drop, and not race in the B, as Tom did a little while ago. However, if I can race my way out of the B and into the A with a B win, then I would go for it... If you finish at the back of the A after the bump up, or dont run in the A, you dont lose anything, since you already have the maximum points you can get from the B win, but if you are able to make a few positions, you can get very valuable points. More important, is that the bubble racers are able to drive with the A main more, and learn what it takes to adjust the driving style from leading one race to chasing another.

The B group qualifier was very clean, and the A group had a few rough starts. This allowed the B drivers to turn more laps, and get better qualifying positions than normal. I know that I had a bunch of flips in qualifying, but I had good pace. I dont think that I flipped during the main, but I was definitely close.

The look on Scotts face when I told him that I only ran AWD cars friday was priceless. Originally I had planned to run the car that I ran in Narrow in Wide, but didnt want to run a 96mm car in narrow, so I ran that in wide. Also the car that I ran in narrow I never traction rolled like I did the 96mm car, which I attribute to the suspension and added weight on the chassis. The car was very planted, and easy to drive. With the X-Speed motor, I didnt feel that I was any faster down the straight than anyone else. And I drove it nearly identically to how I would my MR03. Originally my gearing was off, 19/27, and I was faster than everyone on the straight, but too slow off the corners. I switched to a 17/29 and the car was much better. I came off the corners quick, and had good top speed on the straight. Since most of the layout was slower speeds, this worked out better for me...

bermbuster
2010.09.12, 12:01 PM
Bump ups are great......
they help racers to improve and give the lower ranked racer a chance to run with the big boys.....

I have seen a few Cinerella stories with bump ups too....
Racers having a bad event and coming back by winning a C main then the B and placing in the top of the A.....

In large events how the bump up is scored can be confusing....
In the PN world when you win the class and bump you dont get the lower place(give up trophy)....win the C main and bump to B...2nd place now becomes first place and if you choke in the B so be it....(prize was the bump and you can decide not to bump and keep trophy)
This type of scoring is very fair so the true Lower main champs still get there rewards and the a mainer who did bad gets back into position.

In some racing when you win a class and bump you keep all your winning places.....This is good for a sandbagger/ trophy hoe
It is also good for a racer having the event of a lifetime.....

What I think is important is that the racers know how the bump will work before the event starts so there is no confusion......

rajiex
2010.09.12, 12:15 PM
Whats your thought on placement....was this an odd situation or does this shine a light on a broken qualifing system thats old or out dated?
Whats your thoughts??:D

You are going to need a way to qualify racers? U have to use the old mouse trap until a new one is found. I have a suggestion for points, I instead a being given points in the class you fall into try points based on laps/time.

As you said, sometimes a racer can have bad qualifiers but fix the kinks by race time and put in more laps than a racer that was bumped up into a higher class. The groupings would be basically stay the same but extra points for a lower finishing in a higher class than a higher finishing in a lower class would be eliminated.

Slapstick10
2010.09.12, 12:50 PM
The look on Scotts face when I told him that I only ran AWD cars friday was priceless.


Priceless........I was devastated ....... I thought you just had a bad night I should have known better! Lol

EMU
2010.09.12, 01:14 PM
I worked out a lot of bugs with the wide AWD, but think that the majority of the problem was that I was too low in the front. I need to get new knuckles for the front, since I shaved down the top of the knuckle for body clearance with the shim under the knuckle... Since there are a few bumps, I need the car to be able to handle them a little better...

I liked how in Rally, the track started to come a part... made you have to take different lines and negotiate parts of the track that were good before, and now had a hole in it... crazy fun...

CDR racing
2010.09.12, 01:36 PM
There was a lot of chit chat about qualifiers and main placement. Here's the situation!

If you have an A main driver who has a bad night ...break downs, testing or so on and so forth. Lap wise he doesn't make the A main...Computer says he gets shuffled to the B main. Should said driver be put in A main anyway.

Also the B main has become extremely strong over the past couple of weeks. Al,Jack,Dominick,Danny and myself are putting up as much laps as the A main drivers. I guess you would say we are on the bubble as you would put it. 3 of the B main drivers qualified for A main friday and a few regular A main guys qualified for B main.

Whats your thought on placement....was this an odd situation or does this shine a light on a broken qualifing system thats old or out dated?

Whats your thoughts??:D

I agree with EMU, you should be placed where you deserve to be based on you qualifying. Bad luck is part of the game, as it is with all sports and all competition. If you have bad luck, then you have to just accept that. That is why we have 3 drops. So i think the system is fine, not old, broken, or outdated. It's just the opposite...since the drops are in place to allow for some bad luck nights. But competition is "what have you done for me lately?" You can't earn a spot just because you have a reputation as a good driver or an A main-er or anything. If you just put people in mains based on what kind of driver you think they are or how they usually run, then there is no point in running qualifying. We could just decide the mains at the beginning of the night. So no i think you have to be placed in the main that you earned based on your qualifying run.

ActionRC
2010.09.12, 02:13 PM
Great racing Friday night - nice turnout, and very competitive. We did much better on time, everyone was ready when necessary for the most part, you all did great marshalling, and we took breaks in the 10 minute range without problem. Thank you all so much for the great coopration.

I spoke to Johnathan last night. Tim may actually be getting out of the hospital today! He has been making an incredible recovery, but still has a lot to go.

Qualifying and Points - Here's my thoughts:
Qualifying: You have THREE chances to get your best run. Like when Tom had a bad week last week, or like Eugene experimenting with the AWD this week, you use those three chances as you wish and do what you can with them. If you cannot make the race that you THINK you were supposed to be in, or may normally be in, then you didn't deserve to be in that race that night. It could be that one driver had a better run than normal. It could be that there's a non-regular driver who happens to be good that bumped everyone down a spot. Either way, the method of qualifying based on laps is the best and only way to qualify. In NASCAR, they qualify by timed laps. At short tracks, just like we do, there are qualifying heat races and mains. We get the fun of running four races per night, but only one counts. This system has worked great for many tracks for many years, including at Action RC. In the case of both weeks, Tom had three chances to get his car right. He didn't, and made the B as the result. I think where this question posed by Scott came from was when I said that Eugene made the B. He was top of the B when shuffling 21 cars by 7, and he was 8th. This doesn't mean that he didn't earn the A. All A cars had 27 laps or more. He too had 27, and fit fine as the 8th car. The 9th car had 26, as did 10th, etc. It was just a matter of division. If 10 cars hit 27, 7 might have been in the A, and the lower 3 27's would have been the top of the B. I go by the fact that 7 cars is perfect, 8 cars is good but pushing it, and over 8 is just too much, and too many crashes will interfere with the true potential outcome of the race. The only time my personal judgement MIGHT come into play is if 9 cars hit 27. In that case, I MIGHT hold back the last two and put them in the top of the B so they have each other to race, as well as other drivers who may have low 26's. Remember - a 27:5.00 is just .01 quicker than a 26:5.99, so the guy who hit 27 is by no means a lock for the win. I say, "Don't fix what isn't broken."

Points: The point system is one that I developed myself. I follow NASCAR religiously, yet even I do not know how many points are awarded for a win. Our system is easy and dummy-proof, and has always lead to a final week battle and even extra shoot-outs because the system works so well. Again, I say, "Don't fix what isn't broken." If we had points being detremined weeks in advance, I'd say something's wrong, but that's rare. It only seems to happen in Div 1 when we have a guy who won 5 A's right away.

See everyone tomorrow! :D

Slapstick10
2010.09.12, 02:49 PM
Now qualifing

Why dont we shuffle the a&b drivers up to qualify. keep the C main seperated because of new drivers and the cost of cars and parts. Shuffle up the qualifiers twice and re shuffle for the 3rd. Gives drivers a chance to race with differant people.

And I dont know alot about Nascar however I think there is 1 qualifier on Saturday and the race on sunday.

So if we mix A & B main groups it would be actually closer to real racing then now!

Again I could be wrong.... I'm not a Nascar fan.

B drivers would get better quicker because there racing with better drivers.
and I say with and not against! you should be racing against time and not each other.

A drivers would have to adjust against traffic and slower cars....which is more towards real racing!


Anyone have any thoughts!:D

PS: This friday was the first time I drove in a main with EMU and Potter and because of these guys chasing me around during practice is why I was able to make the A main!

J-Milz
2010.09.12, 05:13 PM
I been to a few tracks, offroad and onroad. So, let me start by saying, I like the current system that Action has now. But to shake things up I would like to see us goin into heats. The first heat is comprised of random names thrown together via computer in a staggered starting system according to registration where ur clock starts when u pass the start/ finish line. Ie.,,So it can be possible that Golddust is on the same track as Rob for the first race. The second and third heats is where the groups start forming based on lap times. You wanna sandbag? Great! Your reward is racing with the kids. The top 8 are A, the next cluster is B etc...

EMU
2010.09.12, 05:19 PM
Im with you Jamil, but one thing that Al pointed out, was that there were a bunch of racers that come late, and if you already re-sorted the race after the first round, they are at the bottom of the sort and will be racing early. I never liked a sort after the first round, after the 2nd is very fair, since you have had 2 chances, and shouldnt have bad runs each chance...

Plus, it gives Al a lot more work to do on the computer, which takes longer between rounds, and time is precious... especially when we are leaving after 1AM already...

hpotter
2010.09.12, 05:21 PM
I don't have to worry I'm always in the A-main :D. I have no issue and believe that you should race where you qualify but my only issue was that when I made the B a while back (for whatever reasons :() I was like a second off making the A. I was the one who said to Al that if I'm in the B put me there (he probably would have just threw me in the A anyway) but what I realized later was that I was the one with the advantage over the B-main drivers and in my mind it wasn't fair to them so I pulled out of the race. No this is not me saying I'm better so I just won't race, I didn't feel right taking a position away from someone and maybe causing them to lose a championship because I took their points. As Eugene pointed out, even if I had stayed in the race and won, it would most likely end up being a drop. Its a very tricky situation at times but for the most part it works. Kudos to Scott for all of his great qualifiers and making the A Friday...I'm pretty sure he got his eyes opened as to how difficult it is to run in the A. Being that we have a few drivers on that A-B cusp right now I'd like to give a little advice if I may---take it easy and run your laps at your speed, nobody realizes how aggressive the race is and if your not used to it and try to match it nothing good is going to come out of it. There is no shame if you get lapped, remember last place in the A is still better than winning the B.

EMU
2010.09.12, 06:16 PM
Wait, your supposed to be aggressive in the A main? I must have missed that. Ill give it a shot...

Potter is right on all accounts. Except, that if there were bump ups, there would be more reason to push hard and get that B win, so you can go to the A and try to get those points... When sorting the mains, you just leave one guy back... So if you want 7 in the main, sort 6 in, and let the others fight to get that last spot in the main above them. Whether they decide to run that race, is up to them. They would still get the same points for winning the B as they would if they finished dead last in the A after they bumped up. The only difference is, that they might be able to get an extra point. If they bump up to the A, I wouldnt count it as an A race for the division trophy, since they didnt qualify for the race, but bumped up.

Bump ups have a negative as well... Al usually sorts the mains by groups of laps, so if one main is 3 laps less than the one above it, that winner gets thrown to the wolves, but will learn how it feels to dominate one race, and become the traffic in the next. I feel that is something very valuable to learn. When your on the A/B cusp, normally your too fast for the B mains, but too slow for the A mains... With bumps, you get to experience both if you win the B (or C) and bump up.

Slapstick10
2010.09.12, 08:56 PM
We are a bunch of racers that start late.........sorry emu What a crock of ....

Start later then, mix the a&b qualifiers for the first two and reshuffle after for the 3rd.

Jamil - No staggered start its boring as Al says and I agree

It will make more competitive racing, unless the A main guys are to uncomfortable with the challange!

And the A main pile up on the first turn, was a bunch of good racers running the same line and we all got there at the same time. As a B main driver on the cusp I need the presure to get better! In little league baseball when you play up you get better, same situation.

Oh and I didnt mention before but Rob B and Shafiq are always chasing me in practice ty guys!:D

J-Milz
2010.09.12, 09:43 PM
WOW! Stir the pot strikes again! This guy makes the "A" once in his life now he wants to change the rules!! LOL!! (That was the hater in me speaking aloud.:D) Scott, Dominick and Jack are making tremendous strides and they should be allowed to "run with the big dogs"..

No, but on a serious note, the quals should be strictly by qualification order.. If a A main guy is having a C main day, oh well. They gonna get C main points for the series that day...etc..

I love how these poll questions bring the truth outta everybody. :eek:

Slapstick10
2010.09.12, 10:08 PM
I worked out a lot of bugs with the wide AWD, but think that the majority of the problem was that I was too low in the front. I need to get new knuckles for the front, since I shaved down the top of the knuckle for body clearance with the shim under the knuckle... Since there are a few bumps, I need the car to be able to handle them a little better...

I liked how in Rally, the track started to come a part... made you have to take different lines and negotiate parts of the track that were good before, and now had a hole in it... crazy fun...


Has nothing to do with placing in the A main. It has to do with the way it's set up not being good enough to race with A main drivers. If we ran 2 qualifiers mixed it would be benefit both groups! Like I said before.

Jamil - don't hate the player hate the game!

hpotter
2010.09.12, 11:20 PM
unless the A main guys are to uncomfortable with the challange!

And the A main pile up on the first turn, was a bunch of good racers running the same line and we all got there at the same time.

I am not uncomfortable but I also don't want to hear whining from the B-Mainers about being 'taken' out by the A-mainers. I don't want to hear if your a better racer you can get around me clean, thats a crock because I want to see anyone get around another racer who's doing figure 8's on the straight away cleanly :). Ahem, about the pile-up you speak of (of which I was the victim) I disagree, it wasn't a bunch of good racers hitting a corner at the same time it was a bunch of hammerheads slamming into the only 2 cars who had the sense to slow down to make a 90 degree turn :rolleyes:.

SaiTam
2010.09.12, 11:33 PM
I want to see anyone get around another racer who's doing figure 8's on the straight away cleanly

I like this quote by hpotter.

On another note, please avoid using dark colored bodies if possible.

GREGDGR81
2010.09.13, 12:50 AM
That is why I painted my blue Nissian red. :)

EMU
2010.09.13, 03:25 AM
Scott, Im all for mixing up the A/B qualifying... as long as I am always in the A ;)

I wasnt referring to me necessarily when I was talking about the re-sort after first round. But there are many racers that miss the first round for one reason or another. I personally would be all for it, as long as there were bump ups.

I think in general Al tries to group the racers in the ranks that they have been finishing from the previous points series. I think that if you want a shot at qualifying in the A group, you should race your way there and earn it. You learn a lot racing in the B, and the A is different, but the same priciples apply. Everything that I do that keeps me in the A, I learned in the B, especially watching the A racers when marshalling. I actually preferred marshalling after my race than before it when I want to relax and focus on my car.

Im not against anything suggested, but when thinking about it, also think about how much work would be needed to implement it and how much time the race programming would be needed between rounds. Racers still need to be manually inserted for each race if you are only sorting two groups...

Another way to look at the C division, is to possibly change the name to Sportsman, and have that a seperate class, where you can qualify out of if you make the laps and choose to switch to expert. Then you can have an expert class and a sportsman class (cant run both). It might be easier to manage with resorts and randomization for the first round qualifiers.

Some of the lower B main racers may decide that they want to run in a class that isnt as intense. And want a shot at winning a championship. Racers get to learn a set of skills and graduate to the expert class when they feel ready and can prove it with laps and consistancy. Its really just another way to look at what is already being done, but permit the expert group to be sorted in a different way. If we do randomize the qualify sessions, I would think that staggered start would be necessary, so you are more realistically racing the clock rather than the other racers around.

On an open clock system, rule of thumb, if someone is faster than you, you let them by as quickly and smooth as you can. There is no defending at all, as that will only slow you down. I personally prefer this qualify method because it reduces the first turn pileups and spaces you out a bit from the other cars at the start so you can see who is faster and slower. Normally I never check the heat sheets to see my stats, I just figure that as long as I run on the lead lap or one behind in the A quals, Im good to go to make it to the A main.

What I have posted above, Expert/Sportsman classes, I see as a possible solution to this 'problem' that Scotty brought up... Im not saying that its necessarily what I want, but I am neutral to the change. I think it is a way to grow as far as handling more equally ranked racers than we have had for a while, and it is more random for the A/B groups as far as placement in qualifiers. Most of the time, the A group turns more laps because there are less unforced errors, but in general the entire group runs faster. I think 60% of the A main racers will stay re-sorted in the A main in the third qualifier, but it allows that 40% to variate more depending on how they raced rather than placed in their pre-sorts.

I think I know what is bothering Scott... he wants his A presort, without having to work hard for it like the ones who have it have :eek: I let it out of the bag ;) Its all based on the trophies Scott, get enough B hardware and you can get your A qualifying spot... Really all you have to do is beat Al regularly and he'll get you out of the B because he wants that trophy :rolleyes:

Scott, I will publicly congratulate you for lining up on the A main grid ahead of me Friday. I wish I could have seen the look on my face when that happened, I didnt know what the order was until it was called :cool:

I dont want to make a race by credentials, I would much rather bump up into it by racing :) You just always have to have an extra set of batteries on the charger in case you win the B. It adds to the excitement, and gives one B racer a chance to race for A points. Its all decided on the track. If the racer bumps up, its credited as an A because they took the bump up even if they finish last and get the same point value as they had in the B. They must sacrifice their ability to credit the B to their championship but the point value remains (so if they are a racer that is very borderline, but most of their points are from bumps, they dont get to race for the B trophy. If they bump up from B main, they should be marked as an A since that is where the points are coming from.

I know I covered a lot of weird ideas in this post... but did any of you hear about the 12 hour endurance race that was held in the pit garage at the Catalunya Grand Prix circuit? The entrance to the track is right behind the red doors... Reflex lead substantially during the first 4 hours, but fell back a bit after that, Im thinking car problems? Madrid-Z took the win, followed by PN Racing and Atomic. Reflex finished in 5th. The winners took the winners circle (all teams did photo ops of course). I wish I could have been there. I didnt know about it until I saw the pics on F******k.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30504&stc=1&d=1284362237
Some big cars came out to play too. I like that guys style, who would have thought to bring an F355 to a track :)
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30505&stc=1&d=1284362934

Slapstick10
2010.09.13, 09:15 AM
Listen.... I'm not mad or upset in any case but Ty for your concerns:) I just put a question on the forum that a fellow racer had asked me to. Before all the responses to my post I had no opinion about qualifing. However upon thinking about I think it would just be more FUN to mix the qualifier! That's all!

and Tom I really don't know how I feel about you post to tell you the truth. Junior from maj's said it best I think

Go fast..... Or go home!
Need I say more

Emu I'm still in awe over the awd thing!

Al has made some new and exciting changes to the program at action,so why not try something else new it might work out.

EMU
2010.09.13, 01:15 PM
Scott, I do think that it is good that you brought it up... It would give the cusp guys a better chance at making the A, and chances to race and qualify against people that they are not used to running with. That is probably the most important thing when you start making A mains from the B group, your not used to the lines that the A racers take in comparison, and thats when traffic becomes a little more difficult for the leaders.

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 01:32 PM
Listen.... I'm not mad or upset in any case but Ty for your concerns:) I just put a question on the forum that a fellow racer had asked me to. Before all the responses to my post I had no opinion about qualifing. However upon thinking about I think it would just be more FUN to mix the qualifier! That's all!

and Tom I really don't know how I feel about you post to tell you the truth. Junior from maj's said it best I think

Go fast..... Or go home!
Need I say more

Emu I'm still in awe over the awd thing!

Al has made some new and exciting changes to the program at action,so why not try something else new it might work out.


Better late than never but here's my 2 cents - STAY WHERE YOU BELONG!!:p Now before you take that the wrong way I don't mean stay in the B. I agree, race WHEREVER you qualify. I'm not sure how I feel about mixing up the qualifiers though? I'm all for a re-shuffle after the 2nd qualifier and mixing it up then but before we mix the A & B randomly there are a few guys (in both classes) who need to realize that even though we make it fun by racing it is still just a race against the clock. Too many guys have that mentality of either I'm not getting out of anybody's way or on the other end of that - If they're slow I'm going through them. This does not make for clean or fun racing and like Tom said if the guy you're going around really doesn't have a line and is all over the place how do you get by. I agree with the comment that say some of us have raced together long enough that we know what the other is going to do, but on the other hand if you're not allowed to race with those guys how will you ever learn.

Scott - How did the "B" guys that made the "A" do anyway? I know I passed you once or twice without incident and there was 3 or 4 laps that i was behind you trying to get by and it took a few laps because you ran really well and you weren't all over the place. That was another thing Tom and I talked about. Trying to get by you I could have dive bombed into the corner where i felt i was faster then you but that outcome is not usually good for either car, instead i just trailed you until you either went wide or scrubbed a board to get by.

hpotter
2010.09.13, 01:57 PM
Tom I really don't know how I feel about you post to tell you the truth. Junior from maj's said it best I think

Go fast..... Or go home!
Need I say more



Ahem part 2---Yes you do need to say more because it has been proven many, many, many times that SLOW IS FAST...this has been brought up numerous times at the track about racers that have cars that are way to fast and drive like their playing pin-ball :eek:. Going fast is great when you can handle it and that includes when there is a wall in front of you the ideal thing to do is slow down and turn, not speed up and use the car in front of you as bumper (we've all been there). I have to say I am a bit surprised because if I remember correctly when you first came to action you were all about how can I make the car faster. You were one of the FEW, I'll say it again, one of the FEW who took some fellow racers advice and learned about setup and actually slowed you car down and learned to race...and low and behold you made the A-Main and in turn are now a faster, cleaner driver :D.

Slapstick10
2010.09.13, 02:08 PM
Marty

I didnt see any issues inthe A main except for the first left. We had multiple cars coming from different lines to a junction..... we all got tangled. The first two laps were the issue for me. As tom would say....I think I finished where I was supposed to....A head of Al;) and behind everyone else:D Its ironic that when its it happens to me...they say thats racing.....and when it happens to someone else its.......I cant believe he did that.

also Its not a dig in anyway but in Toms last post he mentioned slowing down on a hot corner turn. When the buzzer sounded i didnt see one car slow through that corner. Maybe if tom didnt slow down we wouldnt have got tangled up. I was extremly clean all night. I made that corner 81 times and no problems.

Anyway I wanna speak to tom about it.....hopefully hes at action tonight....it was good racing though.

Tom is a great racer and extremely clean I wanna get his opionion.

But I stick by what I said it would be alot of fun to mix the qualifiers up.:D

I would like to hear Tom Sr's thoughts on the qualifiers though!

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 02:33 PM
Marty

I didnt see any issues inthe A main except for the first left. We had multiple cars coming from different lines to a junction..... we all got tangled. The first two laps were the issue for me. As tom would say....I think I finished where I was supposed to....A head of Al;) and behind everyone else:D Its ironic that when its it happens to me...they say thats racing.....and when it happens to someone else its.......I cant believe he did that.

also Its not a dig in anyway but in Toms last post he mentioned slowing down on a hot corner turn. When the buzzer sounded i didnt see one car slow through that corner. Maybe if tom didnt slow down we wouldnt have got tangled up. I was extremly clean all night. I made that corner 81 times and no problems.

Anyway I wanna speak to tom about it.....hopefully hes at action tonight....it was good racing though.

Tom is a great racer and extremely clean I wanna get his opionion.

But I stick by what I said it would be alot of fun to mix the qualifiers up.:D

I would like to hear Tom Sr's thoughts on the qualifiers though!


Yeah, i didn't really see any issues either. As for the 1st turn, no way you guys can get blamed for that. We start almost every qualifier that way:eek: I also don't think it's because of Tom or anyone else slowing down. I think it's everyone (unnecessarily) barreling into turn 1 in order to lead the 1st lap as opposed to to start off easy, get in line and pass when you can. It's just another topic we discuss regularly, it's a lot easier to explain in person but my point about not dive bombing into a corner and Toms point are actually the same. Many times the guy in the back goes into a corner too fast because they're chasing the guy in front of him. Now me saying someone want into the corner too fast is not my opinion or maybe their car can handle the turn better than mine and Tom will back me up on this - The guys we are talking about go into the corner so hard that if they didn't bounce off the front car they would have been in the wall. We actually talked about this Friday night I was behind Tom for a while and clearly faster than him on the left side of the track, while he pulled away from me on the right side. I very easily could have plowed into him any time between the end of the straight and the center of the track but then we would have to go back to your 1st forum question on who's a hack and i don't want to be in that category. :eek: As far as mixing up the qualifying from the start, would you want to qualify with the "C" guys? ;)

JuniorWKR
2010.09.13, 02:53 PM
Ahem part 2---Yes you do need to say more because it has been proven many, many, many times that SLOW IS FAST...this has been brought up numerous times at the track about racers that have cars that are way to fast and drive like their playing pin-ball :eek:. Going fast is great when you can handle it and that includes when there is a wall in front of you the ideal thing to do is slow down and turn, not speed up and use the car in front of you as bumper (we've all been there). I have to say I am a bit surprised because if I remember correctly when you first came to action you were all about how can I make the car faster. You were one of the FEW, I'll say it again, one of the FEW who took some fellow racers advice and learned about setup and actually slowed you car down and learned to race...and low and behold you made the A-Main and in turn are now a faster, cleaner driver :D.


you are miss interperting my saying... my quote in go fast or go home is a quote that i use at our track where all the racers are on the same page... it has nothing to do with what motor you run or what class you are in.. what it means for MHS is that everyone who shows up there to race has a common goal.. the common goal is to push the limits each and every nite we race... we all strive to gain those extra tenths through setup and knowledge... though we all find great enjoyment in the hobby the guys at MHS strive to be the fastest drivers around... we all share tha same goal and will lend our help and knowledge with anyone... MHS team drivers are the real deal... they will blow your doors off then show you how to do it... i would much rather lose to a guy by a tenth then beat someone by 10 laps just cause his car sucks... yeah we have race nites and yeah we run point series but the goal of MHS is to own the amain... and we dont believe in doing it by ourselves or being bullies but would rather bring everyone up with us... not keep others down...

Go Fast.. .or Go Home is for the miniz racer in all of us... no matter what main you are in... if you are out there every single time to go faster then your last time out there then you understand what im saying...

if i may lend a hand to your delema why dont you do what we do... we have a cap on the bump ups... all qualifiers and all sub a mains are 5 mins... only the amain is 8 mins... the reason for this is so that the person who wins the sub mains can only bump up if he is within 2 laps of the last person in the main ahead of him... we do this because there are time where the top 5 guys in the a are doing 60 plus laps and the bump up is doing 30... the bump up guy isnt leaqrning anything but how to pull over... not putting anyone down but we have all been there as we grew in this hobby... the bump up guys time will come as his driving and confidence progresses...

and yes everyone runs where they qualify that nite... thats why its called an off nite.. we dont race for the week before...

what ever you guys do i hope that you take it seriously as we all invest alot of time and money in this hobby but the truth is you still gotta have fun... its a great feeling when you learn to balance the two.. and trust me the more fun your having the clearer your gonna think and the faster your gonna go...

so push the limits... from what ive learned in this hobby... nothing is impossible with these cars...

hpotter
2010.09.13, 02:54 PM
Marty

I didnt see any issues inthe A main except for the first left. We had multiple cars coming from different lines to a junction..... we all got tangled. The first two laps were the issue for me. As tom would say....I think I finished where I was supposed to....A head of Al;) and behind everyone else:D Its ironic that when its it happens to me...they say thats racing.....and when it happens to someone else its.......I cant believe he did that.

also Its not a dig in anyway but in Toms last post he mentioned slowing down on a hot corner turn. When the buzzer sounded i didnt see one car slow through that corner. Maybe if tom didnt slow down we wouldnt have got tangled up. I was extremly clean all night. I made that corner 81 times and no problems.

Anyway I wanna speak to tom about it.....hopefully hes at action tonight....it was good racing though.

Tom is a great racer and extremely clean I wanna get his opionion.

But I stick by what I said it would be alot of fun to mix the qualifiers up.:D

I would like to hear Tom Sr's thoughts on the qualifiers though!
When I say slow down to make the turn I don't necessarily mean brake (I personally don't use it-but have drag brake set). My driving style is and has always been slow into the corner and faster out so off the straightaway I let up off throttle to exit quicker. Now heres where an issue may come up-if you don't get off throttle for that particular turn do you dive bomb in even though my car is in 'the line', the answer is no. It is a well known fact that everyone has their fast parts of the track and their slow parts. Take Nat, Marty, Eugene and me just to name a few, all are faster in turns than I am but if you watch our races unless I go wide or hit a wall they let up off the throttle because they know that if they punch it they are going to T-Bone me because we're all running the same line and its the same for when I am behind them on my fast section of the track. Granted this is mainly because we drive a lot together and its not always squeeky clean but its the theory behind it that matters. Just because someone is faster in a section does not mean they take it...look at real racing, how many times do you see two or more cars go into a corner on the same line and its obvious one has more entry speed into the corner, does the driver in the back barrel through the car in the front?...no you see the car in back hit the brakes, an awful lot, what they do is stay on his bumper trying to force him to slip up and go wide or something else and then make the pass. I do my best to mimmick real racing when driving mini z, doesn't always work but I try :). Don't be mistaken I had no issues with anyone Friday night, I finished probably where I was going to anyway but you have to admit almost being lapped twice before I crossed the checker for the fist time is not the norm :D. I had to flip the nitrous button just to get to third :). Hopefully you'll be making the A more often.

Slapstick10
2010.09.13, 02:57 PM
Ahem part 2---Yes you do need to say more because it has been proven many, many, many times that SLOW IS FAST...this has been brought up numerous times at the track about racers that have cars that are way to fast and drive like their playing pin-ball :eek:. Going fast is great when you can handle it and that includes when there is a wall in front of you the ideal thing to do is slow down and turn, not speed up and use the car in front of you as bumper (we've all been there). I have to say I am a bit surprised because if I remember correctly when you first came to action you were all about how can I make the car faster. You were one of the FEW, I'll say it again, one of the FEW who took some fellow racers advice and learned about setup and actually slowed you car down and learned to race...and low and behold you made the A-Main and in turn are now a faster, cleaner driver :D.

I am not saying that slow is not fast.....I really believe slow is fast. But dont confuse bad judgement with being reckless. I don't even know how that pile up happened....alls i know was I got caught up in it. I stand by my thoughts I was in full control of my car at all time ...just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But somebody used bad judgement and caused that pile up and they were in front of you because you slowed down. There was alot of cars in one area of the track and no warning signs of what was to come. I really enjoyed racing in the A Main and I hope to continue my good luck streak.

Tom - :p love you Bro!

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 03:12 PM
if i may lend a hand to your delema why dont you do what we do... we have a cap on the bump ups... all qualifiers and all sub a mains are 5 mins... only the amain is 8 mins... the reason for this is so that the person who wins the sub mains can only bump up if he is within 2 laps of the last person in the main ahead of him... we do this because there are time where the top 5 guys in the a are doing 60 plus laps and the bump up is doing 30... the bump up guy isnt leaqrning anything but how to pull over... not putting anyone down but we have all been there as we grew in this hobby... the bump up guys time will come as his driving and confidence progresses...


You lost me here. I understand the reasoning for a cap but are you saying the B winner has to be within 2 laps of the last guy in the A but with 3 less minutes to do it?

JuniorWKR
2010.09.13, 03:45 PM
You lost me here. I understand the reasoning for a cap but are you saying the B winner has to be within 2 laps of the last guy in the A but with 3 less minutes to do it?

no.. the last guy in the a got there from his 5 min qualifier which you will have on the printout... only the a runs a 8 min main... so if you run within 2 laps of the last person in the a from your b main 5 min run your in... and that goes for all mains below the a... it kinda helps to seperate things a bit and especially since you guys run the points series the way you do it will help keep the points where they belong and will help the guys in the a as far as lapped traffic goes...

hpotter
2010.09.13, 03:56 PM
I'll qualify with anyone, it doesn't matter to me, but how would it be done so its fair? Unless its going to be luck of the draw but does that mean that 1 A-Main driver could be stuck the C-Main while everyone else is in better races? Just curious.

Sidenote--first turn pile-up, if anyone hasn't noticed thats the reason why I stay in the back for all the qualifiers and wait a little after the buzzer and go, but thats not feasible in the Mains because you line up where you qualify.

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 04:41 PM
no.. the last guy in the a got there from his 5 min qualifier which you will have on the printout... only the a runs a 8 min main... so if you run within 2 laps of the last person in the a from your b main 5 min run your in... and that goes for all mains below the a... it kinda helps to seperate things a bit and especially since you guys run the points series the way you do it will help keep the points where they belong and will help the guys in the a as far as lapped traffic goes...

Oh OK, got it. Thanks.


Sidenote--first turn pile-up, if anyone hasn't noticed thats the reason why I stay in the back for all the qualifiers and wait a little after the buzzer and go, but thats not feasible in the Mains because you line up where you qualify.

Agreed. I'm not wrecking my car racing for the front spot but if i get it, great and I'm trying to get out of there as fast as possible to avoid the pileup. If not i prefer to start in the back and take it easy. Don't like to start in the middle but like you said, in the mains, not my choice. Oh except for this week where i did get my 1st TQ in the Narrow A main:D

bermbuster
2010.09.13, 04:52 PM
I'll qualify with anyone, it doesn't matter to me, but how would it be done so its fair? Unless its going to be luck of the draw but does that mean that 1 A-Main driver could be stuck the C-Main while everyone else is in better races? Just curious.

Sidenote--first turn pile-up, if anyone hasn't noticed thats the reason why I stay in the back for all the qualifiers and wait a little after the buzzer and go, but thats not feasible in the Mains because you line up where you qualify.

The driving skill is what evens things out......
all heats have what is called equalizers (drivers with a no yield mentality)
this does a few things it teaches the equalizer to yield. A crash slows everybody down. it teaches the intermediate driver when to make a move and for the fastest drivers it hones skills they forgot they had.....:cool:

ActionRC
2010.09.13, 05:06 PM
Jeez - Why did I have to check the forum at 4:55 and see all this? Lots to talk about tonight - all while driving the COMPLETELY NEW layout! This is a good one!

Thanks to all of you for a great discussion. Of course, I have my opinion, but it'll have to wait 'til I have time to write. See everyone in a little while!

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 05:09 PM
The driving skill is what evens things out......
all heats have what is called equalizers (drivers with a no yield mentality)
this does a few things it teaches the equalizer to yield. A crash slows everybody down. it teaches the intermediate driver when to make a move and for the fastest drivers it hones skills they forgot they had.....:cool:

LOL. I like that..... equalizer.

Jeez - Why did I have to check the forum at 4:55 and see all this? Lots to talk about tonight - all while driving the COMPLETELY NEW layout! This is a good one!

Thanks to all of you for a great discussion. Of course, I have my opinion, but it'll have to wait 'til I have time to write. See everyone in a little while!
put up a pic, now that Stu taught us how:D

ShortBus
2010.09.13, 05:16 PM
All of this because Scott qualified with 27 laps to make the "A" main on Friday night??

Fifty7
2010.09.13, 05:24 PM
All of this because Scott qualified with 27 laps to make the "A" main on Friday night?? Yes, I made a huge mistake of not changing tires fo my 3rd qualifier. I was a few seconds behind the 27 laps required to make the "A" all night. So, I got bumped down to the "B" main which I should have been since I only had 26 laps. Then when you look at my laps during the "B" main, I led the entire race and although Dominic was only a few seconds behind me at the very end, I was never challenged. So, if only looking at laps completed - why would Dominic and I have completed more laps then the majority of the "A" main'ers? Lap's completed would have placed us a solid 3rd and 4th with the laps completed in the "A"?

As far as bump ups, are there bump ups or not? I was never offered one?


I dont think we have a set rule on bump ups. I know he's done it a few time during gift card racing (R.I.P.) and like Junior said he uses his discretion on who it is and if they'll be competitive or just "in the way".

TomSr
2010.09.13, 05:29 PM
I would like to hear Tom Sr's thoughts on the qualifiers though!

I've been following this thread with interest in the various points of view but Scott is dragging me out of my typical quiet listener mode to jumping in. :rolleyes:

As you know the Friday schedule is not working well for me - so maybe my voice in all this is not as important. But here are my thoughts...

First, I enjoy ARCMS for the opportunity to race against drivers of similar skill. Racing against drivers who are much faster & cleaner and who I know will lap me is not as much fun. I don't subscribe to the "that's how you learn" theory (We all have plenty of practice oppurtunity to "trail an A driver" and learn their lines, etc - but qualifying is for qualifying, and Mains for competing).

I know who I should beat and who the next level of drivers are that I strive to beat...those are the racers I hope to be in heats with. Simple as that.

Having said that -

I agree with the "race where you qualified" concept. If you are having an "on" night and move up - great. If you are having a bad night and move down - that's life. There should be no "predetermination" based on ones past performance in the main placement. I also think that if you are having a bad night and an A driver ends up in B, or B in C - there is no judgement if you elect to call it a night and take it as a drop. It's not arrogance or anything like it - either it's a bad night, or you'll fix the issue but end up lapping the field many times. Either case is not fun for anyone and dropping out is an understandable option (as is going ahead and running to work out the kinks and salvage some points). It's the racers own decision based on circumstances.

As to current qualifying mix structure - I think Al does a reasonably good job of matching skills based on how he knows you to run - making the qualifiers reasonably good "peer groupings". That's what I come to do - and I support it as is. A reshuffle after the 2nd qualifier is ok - it gives you two shots in your "general" peer group (per Al's judgement) to either lockin or move up. If you blow those 2 shots and get dropped - well then you have one more chance to "race your way out of it" at least. As the owner, Al typically puts himself in the lower group every week and races his way up. I think that the right thing for the owner to do - and is quite admirable.

Regarding "bump ups" - I've never been a fan of the idea because of the potential for large disparity in skills (C driver can hurt a B main, as can a B driver hurt an A main). BUT - reading Juniors notion of a bump up cap makes perfect sense and reduces the large disparity. So if we did a 1 or 2 lap cap on bump ups - I think it would be a great idea (although it makes keeping a 7 car field more difficult without adding more heats which = more time, which is something I don't think we can afford).

If there were one thing I'd like to see changed though - it's the fixation on 7 car heats (or 8 max). If 9 cars make 27 laps - make it a 9 car heat. The idea of dropping the lowest 2 27's to the B where they may be laps ahead of the rest of the field makes no sense to me. Likewise, if 8 have 27 and one close 26...but the B group is 25 and below...give the 26 the A spot. It's closer. Again, to me it's all about racing in a peer group where you have a shot to beat the field (or compete well in it at least). Basically, a 2 car race within a race of 4 or 5 other cars that will be laps behind is not my idea of fun - for anyone.

Like I said - I get fun out of competing with a peer group. I don't care if you call it A, B, or Z.

Those are my thoughts after reading all the above posts. :)

ShortBus
2010.09.13, 05:45 PM
Tom Sr, I agree with you 100%. But as usual and like you I could only sit back and be silent for so long. This is just another case of a dumb "poll" that has beaten the poor dog way beyond death!! In all honesty it's starting to drive me away if nothing else. I guess it's just the changing of the tides around here....... Just my two cents :)

TomSr
2010.09.13, 05:48 PM
[QUOTE=ShortBus;393174]I was a few seconds behind the 27 laps required to make the "A" all night. So, I got bumped down to the "B" main which I should have been since I only had 26 laps. Then when you look at my laps during the "B" main, I led the entire race and although Dominic was only a few seconds behind me at the very end, I was never challenged. So, if only looking at laps completed - why would Dominic and I have completed more laps then the majority of the "A" main'ers? Lap's completed would have placed us a solid 3rd and 4th with the laps completed in the "A"?

QUOTE]

And this is exactly what I meant by the 7 car fixation... I think the # of cars in a main needs to be variable enough to prevent this. So - you get a 10 car A - - adjust to that in turn 1 and be smart....then let the field will begin to spread out.

I'm not expecting much agreement on that point - but that's how I feel and I think the "laps completed" point above is a good one. If it was 26 by a matter of seconds - based on outsome, Jeff's peer group, and maybe Dom's were the A drivers.

bermbuster
2010.09.13, 05:52 PM
Tom Sr, I agree with you 100%. But as usual and like you I could only sit back and be silent for so long. This is just another case of a dumb "poll" that has beaten the poor dog way beyond death!! In all honesty it's starting to drive me away if nothing else. I guess it's just the changing of the tides around here....... Just my two cents :)

The poll is only dumb because you dont agree with it......:D

Thats why we have forums to talk about things and everybodies opinion has value.....:cool:

I can think of two quotes that fit this discussion......
which one do you agree with?

If it aint broke dont fix it.....

In the absence of correction everything is done perfectly.....

ShortBus
2010.09.13, 06:05 PM
Tom, my point wasn't where I finished. I qualified for the "B" and is where I should have been placed for the night. I guess I allowed myself to be sucked into this stupid $@^% again. Bottom line - you have qualifiers to place you into mains - but I guess I missed the point again here.

Adios !!

bermbuster
2010.09.13, 06:22 PM
[QUOTE=TomSr;393177]If there were one thing I'd like to see changed though - it's the fixation on 7 car heats (or 8 max). If 9 cars make 27 laps - make it a 9 car heat. The idea of dropping the lowest 2 27's to the B where they may be laps ahead of the rest of the field makes no sense to me. Likewise, if 8 have 27 and one close 26...but the B group is 25 and below...give the 26 the A spot. It's closer. Again, to me it's all about racing in a peer group where you have a shot to beat the field (or compete well in it at least). Basically, a 2 car race within a race of 4 or 5 other cars that will be laps behind is not my idea of fun - for anyone. [/tsQUOTE]

Now that is a great idea.....

Slapstick10
2010.09.14, 08:43 AM
Al - got to tell you I love the new track. It's fast,aggressive and wide!

Batteries

What brand do you use?

What is the voltage you charge at?

For me I favor duratrax 750 with a charge rate of 2amps. I have never had any leakage.

SaiTam
2010.09.14, 10:43 AM
I find the Duratrax batteries very inconsistent.

hpotter
2010.09.14, 10:51 AM
I still use the old standard for charging most of the time which is 1C charge rate-ex R1 990@1 amp.
At the track if time is an issue I'll bump it up a little (hardly ever a problem as I have enough sets)
If I have the time (at home) I'll discharge my cells and charge at a slower rate to get a fuller capacity charge
I know others have different opinions but I try to stay away from really high charge rates for AAA cells as I have found that they do give extra juice at the start but dump more quickly and high charge rates will diminish the life of the battery.

Slapstick10
2010.09.14, 11:14 AM
I find the Duratrax batteries very inconsistent.

Ty for not answering the question....lol

Come on Sai what are you packing in those quick cars of yours?:D

ActionRC
2010.09.14, 11:25 AM
Scott - Check your email ASAP in regard to Harley's bus ride yesterday, please.

I enjoyed reading all of these thoughts about qualifiers, and I agree with George (Berm) that you can either leave everything alone because things seem to work fine, or you can adjust something to try to make it better. That's how everything in life progresses, and if it's not for the better, you adjust again, and these discussions help to come up with some great ideas.

Shuffles: I don't think I could really be accused of giving anyone an unfair race - not that anyone is flat-out accusing me of doing so. There will always be 'bubble guys' who could be fit into an upper or lower race. (That's why we even have a term 'bubble-guy' for this - it's common.) It all comes down to (for my judgement) 1) who is above or below that bubble person, 2) where is the bigger gap of time or laps, 3) is there a clear winner in the potential race, and 4) are there too many cars on the track at one time. (Many of you have even heard me ask the bubble which race they would prefer to run in - so I even put the choice right into the bubble's hands. Unfortunately, most of the time, I AM the bubble!) We all know very well that if I were to go and put 9 or 10 cars on the track at one time, I'd get a complaint if the person who more than likely should have won came in last because he got caught up in an incident with a car two laps down in last place, broke a T-Plate, etc. (I'm not talking about not being able to get by the guy cleanly, but more getting caught up in an accident.) I'd never hear the end of it. (Remember NASCAR Oval, anyone?) However, if 12 guys hit 27, and 8 make the A and 4 make the top of the B, there is no clear winner in the B, making for two great races. A 12 car A would be ridiculous, and while these numbers are stretched a little to make a point, it's the same argument. The 9th guy should realize and understand that there has to be a cut-off somewhere, and regardless of the number of laps you ran, you did not qualify for the A, and you're not even a shoe-in for the B win if you had 27:5.09 and the 10th guy had 27:5.10. You're going to run in a great race no matter what race it is, and hopefully if you're upset for making the B, you'll try harder next week to be one of the top 8 - and understand why you didn't make the A.

Either way, I can't win, I can never make everyone happy, and there are always two sides to every argument. Every way described by everyone makes legitimate sence, but you can only make one decision, and I always try to give everyone a fair race with at least 2 other drivers to compete against should one have a problem. I have NEVER put a car at the top of the B that would blow everyone away, and that decision is based on 1) the person's qualifying reults, and more importantly 2) how well I know certain drivers race against each other. There have always been at least two at the top that can race hard against each other, and therefore, I have always given everyone the best shot that I could at a good race with good competition. Like I said, there will always be someone who can find fault in any decision I have ever made. To them, I would say, go up on the computer stand and make a better decision and see how it plays out. I guartantee, there will be someone left standing that is unhappy with your decision. Over the last six years, I have learned quite well that I am very capable of making (on average) at least 24 out of 25 drivers happy. That's a pretty good ratio.

I love that Scott puts these polls on because it makes the forum interesting and entertaining. These are just discussions about a hobby, so please don't take them too seriously. They're just for fun, and I think he does a great job of trying to 'stir the pot' to have interesting things to discuss without getting too personal. (When he did get personal, we closed that door immediately, and he learning his lesson.) Have fun with it! :) Like Jeff is implying (I hope!), I think this horse is down for the count, so let's move on - PLEASE!

Batteries - I run them for years, charge at .85, and I have a newer set of Peaks that I love, 2 older sets of R1 990's that loved but now I like alot. I run 3 sets, never discharge, and never miss a race or dump! I charge on my 10 year old ****** with a PN orange charging tray - that I also love! :)

I hope everyone likes the new layout. It is a nice departure from the norm, and I think we had some fun practice races last night. Can't wait 'til tomorrow!

ActionRC
2010.09.14, 11:47 AM
Wow - I guess I have a "forum-illegal" charger! :eek:

EMU
2010.09.14, 12:12 PM
Al - got to tell you I love the new track. It's fast,aggressive and wide!

Batteries

What brand do you use?

What is the voltage you charge at?

For me I favor duratrax 750 with a charge rate of 2amps. I have never had any leakage.

I have used many different batteries... Team Scream 900, R1 990, R1 750, Orion 900HV, Orion 750HV, Orion 750SHO, Much More 777, Much More 900, DTX 750, Duracell 1000, Better Power 1000, Sanyo 800, TRP 900, Atomic 800... Im sure there are a few that I have missed.

The ones that I currently bring to the track are Team Scream 900 and the new Atomic 800. The both are durable, which is important to me. My older blue TSR cells lasted well over a year and a half, and the newer gray cells seem just as good.

I typically charge my cells at 1A for practice and qualify, but may hit them at 1.5-2A to re-peak them right before the run. For mains I increase the charge rate for stock motor classes, but dont really change anything for the faster motors as they are already fast enough and I want more consistent power, with less early power and more drop off throughout the race.

The DTX cells were great when they were new, but they didnt have the durability I wanted. I do typically get new cells for every big event, since I feel that the age of the cell determines a lot for power. I used to zap my race cells, but I only notice a performance increase if the cells are new, and its only a few cycles after they are zapped, then the performance degrades a bit.

For consistency, lower charge rates work better... Higher charge rates will heat the cells up more, and when the cells are warm, they deliver more power. But if the cells get too hot, they can cut off power, or drop power a little without fully cutting off. This happened more with say the 1000mah cells than the lower IR cells (IR=Internal Resistance). Choosing the right cell for the right application is important. You can use slower consistent cells in a high power application to take a little edge off and increase runtime, so long as the cell does not overheat during the run. I had that problem with the BP1000. The TRP 900 have great top end, but I felt that they lacked the low end power that I like. In general, the top cells that I have used for life-span/power, are the Team Scream cells, Orion 900HV/750HV, and I have high hopes for the newer Atomic 800. All three cells can take an aggressive charge, but are plenty fast with a lower charge rate.

Now, as far as charge voltage, I want to peak my cells over 7v. But to do so, I need at least 2A to bring the voltage that high for the peak.

TomSr
2010.09.14, 01:01 PM
Al - I was asked for my thoughts on the topic so rather then sit quiet like I usually do, I chimed in. I'm the one that raised the number of cars question. Please don't take my comments as being critical. 12 cars in a race is indeed ridiculous. 7=8 is ideal but I personally think you could go up to 10, and as mature drivers, we should be able to adjust. Like I said, I did not expect anyone to agree with me - especially those at the top of a grouping.

But I do disagree with your notion of taking 2 bottom cars and putting them down a group thinking that at least they have each other to race. An alternative suggestion then might be - let's say you have 10 cars in the top group before a qualifying lap gap (eg. 9 27 and a close 26, then it drops off to 24). How about making a 5-5 "A". A1 and A2 in separate Mains (or same for B). That way all are A stacked. And it preserves the A, B, C points groupings for everone.

Trust me, not trying to tell you how to run your shop at all. Hope you did not take offense to my comments.

Fifty7
2010.09.14, 01:04 PM
Al - got to tell you I love the new track. It's fast,aggressive and wide!

Batteries

What brand do you use?

What is the voltage you charge at?

For me I favor duratrax 750 with a charge rate of 2amps. I have never had any leakage.

Ok, not that you need any more information after EMU (I think he covered all of them) but. I used Orion 900's charged at 1amp for about a year and they started dropping off. They were always very consistent from the beginning to the end of a run. Then i got the Perfex charger (which i love) and i tried the Orion 750's, they have a tremendous amount more punch to them but didnt stay consistent throughout the race. I also (and i know other people did too) had a few of them "vent" on my first charge which was done at only .5 amps. They also got very hot if i charged them at anything more than .7 amps. Now I'm on the R1 990's and 750's. 990's charged at 1 amp and 750's usually .8 (i haven't tried higher, i guess the orion 750's scared me off that) I like them so far. They are both pretty fast but again the 750's provide a lot more punch. They actually took a few weeks to break in and get good. I have not noticed much loss of speed during a qualifier or main with these either.

Wish i could get there tomorrow but ....will have to wait till Friday to see the new layout.

Fifty7
2010.09.14, 01:22 PM
Al - I was asked for my thoughts on the topic so rather then sit quiet like I usually do, I chimed in. I'm the one that raised the number of cars question. Please don't take my comments as being critical. 12 cars in a race is indeed ridiculous. 7=8 is ideal but I personally think you could go up to 10, and as mature drivers, we should be able to adjust. Like I said, I did not expect anyone to agree with me - especially those at the top of a grouping.

But I do disagree with your notion of taking 2 bottom cars and putting them down a group thinking that at least they have each other to race. An alternative suggestion then might be - let's say you have 10 cars in the top group before a qualifying lap gap (eg. 9 27 and a close 26, then it drops off to 24). How about making a 5-5 "A". A1 and A2 in separate Mains (or same for B). That way all are A stacked. And it preserves the A, B, C points groupings for everone.

Trust me, not trying to tell you how to run your shop at all. Hope you did not take offense to my comments.


Tom - Where are the mature drivers?:p


On a different subject, i didn't see a recap of Friday night so i just wanted to say congrats to Dominick on his Narrow A main run. He ran 2nd the whole race. I wound up finishing in front of him but only because he hit the boards and got frustrated which allowed me to get by. I think my narrow is good right now and if it wasn't for him getting mad i was NOT going to catch him in time. When he gets his emotions under control he's gonna be trouble to all of us.

ActionRC
2010.09.14, 01:34 PM
Sr. - Believe me - no offense taken at all. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and honesty. It takes alot more than talking about racing RC cars to offend me, and I love that everyone here is so comfortable with each other that we can say things at the risk of taking something in offense, but understanding each other and knowing each other enough to not actually get offended. I know the value of your friendship to me - nothing you can say here would offend me. I didn't even mean to direct my comments directly at you.

I guess the value of the "Double-A Main" would be for the points where you'd still be a Division 1 driver even if you made the 2nd A main. The system cannot do this, however, so it would still be called (in Core anyway) the B Main. (This would also have the negative effect of making C-main Division 3 drivers into false B main division 2 drivers!)

The problem with this whole discussion is that we are over-simplifying how the qualifiers actually go down. There's usually one of two with, say, 30, two 29's, 2 28's, 5 27's, etc. It's not as clear-cut as we're making the example. The closer example to reality would be that you might have 5 guys in the A who are on one side of the bell curve, then a large group of 'upper B, lower A' guys who really would be the B - not the A - with a split in the middle. Either way, there are so many way to split the groups, and all of them have legitimate advantages. It's just a matter of how you interpret the qualifiers, and how fair you think the split races would result. I can only predict the outcome so accurately. For the most part, I have yet to experience a mass feeling of not putting people in the race they felt they deserved to be in, or that I put them in a race they didn't race their way into themselves with three opportunities to change their results. I have even taken drivers and given them three different groups to run in each round, as I did with me, Dominick, and Danny last Friday, to give everyone a fair shot. I know I have also done that with Sr, Jeff, Jack, Marty, and many other upper B, lower A drivers - which most of us here seem to be - give or take! :rolleyes:

In conclusion, I would say that I will promise to do the 2nd round reshuffle, and I did like Scott's idea of shuffling upper level drivers into an A1-A2 kind of groups, where my interpretation of the A and upper B drivers could run together in the first two rounds. This does give an upper-A, lower B driver a better chance of earning the A by running with (what supposed to be ;) ) cleaner drivers in the A. I like this idea. A random shuffle of upper guys ranked as 10 in Core would put all 10's in as many groups as I tell it to put them in. I could always manually and easily tweak it quickly if the split looked lopsided. Maybe I'll try that tomorrow and see how it goes.

Anyway - it was great to see so many new drivers last night! We had several, and it looks like several more on the way! I even had to add more 03's to the order placed earlier that day! Thank you so much to Tom for helping me with all of the new drivers.

ActionRC
2010.09.14, 01:40 PM
If anyone that has my cell # has Scott's cell or home #, please call him and tell him to call my cell ASAP. I really need to speak to him before school ends for Harley, Justin and Austin. Thanks!

Slapstick10
2010.09.14, 02:20 PM
If anyone that has my cell # has Scott's cell or home #, please call him and tell him to call my cell ASAP. I really need to speak to him before school ends for Harley, Justin and Austin. Thanks!

Ty everyone for the heads up. I spoke with Al Ty again!!!:D

Some have been asking about the bus situation that happened yesterday. Well we are working closely with the school and authority's to get the problem resolved. Once again ty for everyones concern. See you in the A main....I hope!

KA2AEV
2010.09.14, 08:39 PM
Tom - Where are the mature drivers?:p


.

Mature Adult Drivers?

Here?

Marty what are you smoking? :D

EMU
2010.09.14, 10:24 PM
I want to touch on a couple things...

Senior, in the past I would have been completely against running with a large group in the A as you suggested. Now, I am much more open to it. I dont race at Action to win, I race there to practice and fine tune my skills and setups, but more importantly, to have fun. Adding more drivers of similar pace, will increase the amount of traffic, and increase my ability to work around it. I know that there will be other A-mainers that will be against it, but it really will help hone their skills. If the speed difference is too great, then I would advise against it, but since the top of the A to the bottom of the B has really tightened, I dont see this as being much of a problem anymore.

Marty, I feel that the R1 990 are a great cell. I had 6 sets, and really liked them. They have good punch, but you have to gear them higher than you would say an Orion 750 or TRP 900. Similar to how you would gear the Team Scream 900. With the R1 990 I used to use a 14t with my 70t car. All other cells I use a 13t, and the speed is similar. When you use different batteries, they release power differently... some have more voltage, and some have more low end punch (less internal resistance). This is one reason that I try not to change battery types during a race night. On Friday I only ran the Atomic 800 cells. This week I will only run the Team Scream 900's. Both have similar capacity and feel, but weight balance is a little different, and the TSR cells have a little more power overall but a little less speed. I want to give my cells time to recover from racing, so each week I am going to be switching between types (I have 5 sets of ATM, and 6 sets of TSR).

In general, I try to get new cells every 3 months or so, just a few sets for the mains... it makes a difference on runtime and punch. As the cell ages, its punch drops overall, but it starts to run flat midway through the race as though its starting to dump, but its not...

Al, I personally dont like a 2nd round re-sort, but a re-shuffle may be interesting... I think we wont know how things will work until we start trying them. If anyone is against making such changes, please make yourself known... I was quiet when I heard about the race program switching to Friday's... I didnt like it (so used to racing Saturdays), but it seems to be working pretty well. I still think that I have work the next day, and then realize that its Friday.

This does give an upper-A, lower B driver a better chance of earning the A by running with (what supposed to be ) cleaner drivers in the A.
I think its supposed to be lower-A, upper-B... ;)

Fifty7
2010.09.15, 01:12 PM
Ty everyone for the heads up. I spoke with Al Ty again!!!:D

Some have been asking about the bus situation that happened yesterday. Well we are working closely with the school and authority's to get the problem resolved. Once again ty for everyones concern. See you in the A main....I hope!

Not to make lite of anything because it is very frustrating and upsetting to know we have to be so concerned about our kids getting home from school safely but if your name ended in a vowel you would know there's only one way to solve the problem - put a bunch of guys on that same bus the next day. I would be very surprised but happy to hear the police pursue it and do something about it.

Slapstick10
2010.09.15, 03:27 PM
Marty- The truth in the matter is there probably going to do nothing. However The VP of IS 34 is a stand up guy. I believe him when he said " He'll take care of it from a school point of view" . I'm sure he called the other school to let them know there was a problem. I know this because the rp sitting in front of the other school while I was following the bus yesterday! I have cleared my schedule for this week and next to be very close to my daughter while riding the bus. I will not hesitate to protect her and her friends. I'll be a text away!

As a parent of four children , I have never had the feeling of being helpless before. Im the one in my family that always deals with things like this. Its scary as a parent ...we'll for me anyway. I have always taught my children to be respectfull and honorable in whatever situation comes about but this....how do I teach a 12 year old how to deal with this....especially a girl. I could have just had my older son and a few friends correct the situation but to many peaple were involved at this point. I'm really comfortable with my conversations with the school. They share my concerns and are taking extra precautions to ensure the safety of my daughter as we'll as the other children.

Now having that said " Lets race some cars tonight"!!!!!!!!:D

If I didn't say it before......TY to everyone for their Help , Support and Advise it really made a hard situation a little easier!

TomSr
2010.09.15, 04:56 PM
Scott - I hope whatever is going on with the bus situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.

Fifty7
2010.09.15, 08:49 PM
Hope it gets resolved and never happens again.

CDR racing
2010.09.15, 09:05 PM
Marty- The truth in the matter is there probably going to do nothing. However The VP of IS 34 is a stand up guy. I believe him when he said " He'll take care of it from a school point of view" . I'm sure he called the other school to let them know there was a problem. I know this because the rp sitting in front of the other school while I was following the bus yesterday! I have cleared my schedule for this week and next to be very close to my daughter while riding the bus. I will not hesitate to protect her and her friends. I'll be a text away!

As a parent of four children , I have never had the feeling of being helpless before. Im the one in my family that always deals with things like this. Its scary as a parent ...we'll for me anyway. I have always taught my children to be respectfull and honorable in whatever situation comes about but this....how do I teach a 12 year old how to deal with this....especially a girl. I could have just had my older son and a few friends correct the situation but to many peaple were involved at this point. I'm really comfortable with my conversations with the school. They share my concerns and are taking extra precautions to ensure the safety of my daughter as we'll as the other children.

Now having that said " Lets race some cars tonight"!!!!!!!!:D

If I didn't say it before......TY to everyone for their Help , Support and Advise it really made a hard situation a little easier!

Scott which VP are you dealing with?

SaiTam
2010.09.16, 12:56 AM
Getting back to Racing..........the current layout is enjoyable to race. I like it.

GREGDGR81
2010.09.16, 01:08 AM
Getting back to Racing..........the current layout is enjoyable to race. I like it. I like it alot less technical. More speed.

Fifty7
2010.09.16, 08:28 AM
I like it alot less technical. More speed.

UH oH -Gonna need more spare parts:eek:

SaiTam
2010.09.16, 09:04 AM
This layout is deceivingly difficult. I had a good eye workout(you'll know after running the mains); the car has to be perfectly balanced to handle multiple medium to high speed corners. Car is more likely to Traction roll with higher speed. I finally had a reason to clean my motor and increase my charge amperage. The speed entering the turn before the straightaway will greatly influence your straightaway speed. Mini-z total loss is also more likely due to high speed. And no I didn't make the 8.xx second lap but Number1 did.

Aerodynamic experts will love this layout.

On a side note; WTF was up with all the constructions and traffic in Bklyn and Manhattan last night?

hpotter
2010.09.16, 12:18 PM
UH oH -Gonna need more spare parts:eek:

Great minds think alike, thats exactly what I said when I saw it.

Fifty7
2010.09.16, 12:42 PM
Great minds think alike, thats exactly what I said when I saw it.

Yeah, I'm screwed. My car doesn't do very well getting back on throttle. B Main Here I come. Scott - you can have my A main spot:p

ActionRC
2010.09.16, 04:14 PM
Hey everyone! Fun racing last night! This new layout had side by side racing all night! I had a blast racing with Danny all night. Roland was running awesomely, and Sai and Nat had great battles as usual. Scott was in a league of his own - slightly better than Danny, who was slightly better than me except in the main when we had a great battle going on and when we got together toward the end, I accidentally flipped him (somehow) and I kept going since it was the last lap. Sorry Dan! "Points is points!"

Interestingly enough, we had a strong Div 1 showing, and a strong Div 3 showing, but NO Div 2 guys! This lead everyone who ran the B last night to bump into Div 2. Hopefully next week we get a descent B showing, and we'll be able to get some drivers back where they were.

I also had a great time last night with 9 minute mains! I still had the mains set for rally from Friday night, so we left it alone and ran 9 minutes! I love long races! I did see a few traction rolls, but some drivers were not used to the high-speed turns - especially the tighter entrance to the center. My car is pushy, so I did not experience this problem, but I did have to back off coming out of turns, and others cars like Scott's and Danny's (and, well, everyone except me) could hold the line really well on acceleration. I could not. I also had to roll more than they did entering corners. I'll probably try a softer front spring on Friday. Definitely a fun tuner layout!

See everyone tomorrow!

EMU
2010.09.16, 05:32 PM
Layout sounds interesting... I was hoping that someone would post a pic... See you guys tomorrow.

Scrapper
2010.09.16, 11:10 PM
just got my 3pk

Number1
2010.09.17, 01:57 AM
Race video from Wed. night.

B-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMD5uI8uSYA

Sorry guys, no A-Main video. I hit the RECORD button only once and not realizing the camera went to sleep mode.

Fifty7
2010.09.17, 11:18 AM
Race video from Wed. night.

B-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMD5uI8uSYA

Sorry guys, no A-Main video. I hit the RECORD button only once and not realizing the camera went to sleep mode.

Wow. looks dangerous, can't wait to try it tonight.

J-Milz
2010.09.17, 12:11 PM
FAST!!! I like it!:)

Fifty7
2010.09.17, 12:54 PM
FAST!!! I like it!:)

Me too, but i will admit, I'm a little frightened:eek:

GREGDGR81
2010.09.17, 03:57 PM
Me too, but i will admit, I'm a little frightened:eek:

Fear is for the fearfull. There is no fear in mini-z racing.

Scrapper
2010.09.17, 05:23 PM
guys i just got my dream radio a 3pk

I cant wait to come to action next weekend and test this bad boy out

Part of racing I find is to have fun. I am probably the worst driver at every event i go to but I still have fun. Any racing is fun racing. Sure I hope to get better adventually and strive to be great one day. That day is far away.

The way Al does his layouts are very unique he does it with everybody in mind. That is why I have really enjoyed my experience of learning and starting my miniz journey at arcms about 3 years ago. Sure I have the name "stugottz" and to those who think its insulting it truly isnt. It arose from a joke. It stuck to me. I choose to keep it going. I am proud to wear the action rc shirt even if i am the only one doing it at almost every big race i attend. It is not how you place. But how you race and treat others that gains you respect.

jackg
2010.09.18, 02:13 AM
great friday night at Action. Scott made a good showing qualifing in the mid A for Wide. For a while I even had my nearly bone-stock 015 doing ok.;) -j

EMU
2010.09.18, 04:59 AM
I just got home... 4:42am :eek: Long trip back, missed the boat, and the trains were all sorts of screwed up. my train was not running, so I had to walk about 1/2mile to the train from the ferry and another 1/2 mile from the train to my house. The walk wouldnt have been bad, if I didnt have my stuff, and if I had a jacket. Its a little too cold out for just a t-shirt now...

Fun night of racing. I really didnt like the layout, but in a way, its good. Your not going to like every layout that you race on, so its important to focus even harder on the ones that you dont like. I felt that it was too fast, and too straight. The biggest problem that I had with this type of layout, is the front straight being so close to the drivers stand, the cars are very quick there, and you dont have time to place where they are in relation to the corner. In general, the track is too close to the drivers, but its ok because there are usually curves there which slow the cars down and make it a little easier on the eyes. Do I want Al to stop doing these types of layouts, no. I want him to continue doing what hes doing... it makes us very versatile as drivers and race engineers.

I had originally planned to run my AWD's, but they dont like that type of track so I switched to 2wd. I also lost a special screw to my AWD A-Arms... I looked all over the track and didnt find it, I could probably just replace it with a countersunk screw and it would be fine...

The Mosler worked well, but I felt was a little loose. In general all of my cars felt a little loose, but I think that may just be the grip level on the track going down due to the weather. I had been driving the Mosler all week in Forza, tweaking setup ideas and seeing what sort of changes worked... For this track layout, I decided to setup and drive as Road America (Elkhart Lake). It reminded me of that track because of the high speed straights, and the carousel (although there is no straight after it).

With my narrow car, right before the main, the tab on the brush where the motor wire is soldered to broke off. So I had to pull the motor, file down the brush spring, and resolder the wire in place. That left me with no warm up laps... I got a bad start, and had to work my way up. Robs car was plenty quick, but I managed to get by and open a gap. I also bumped up the pinion on the motor to a 14/53 (probably why the tab broke). I was relieved that the car worked well and the motor wire stayed on. I dont plan on running this gearing if the track gets a little smaller. I felt that with the faster corners, I needed to be in the power band exiting the corner, where I was just a little above it with the 13t pinion. I dont think my straight speed was really effected by the pinion change, at least it didnt feel that way.

I gotta get some sleep...

KA2AEV
2010.09.18, 10:06 AM
great friday night at Action. Scott made a good showing qualifing in the mid A for Wide. For a while I even had my nearly bone-stock 015 doing ok.;) -j

Yeah so thats why you ended up in the same main as Golddust and myself?

Thoughly kicking our you know whats?
Car troubles my sweet anne
Jack the New Sandbagger extrodainaire:D

KA2AEV
2010.09.18, 10:28 AM
I just got home... 4:42am
. I also lost a special screw to my AWD A-Arms... I looked all over the track and didnt find it, I could probably just replace it with a countersunk screw and it would be fine...


...

Eugene check in the junkyard
Golddust found one that looked really small with what appeared a hex/allen head on it
Its in the junkyard if thats the one

Slapstick10
2010.09.18, 11:17 AM
I really like the track it gave me a chance to push my car a little harder. With the increased speed of the staightaways and wider turns I was able to pump up the juice and adjust accordingly. My wide body is on fire! I'm scared to clean or adjust it in anyway. I really enjoyed the mix of the quals but felt it might of been un fair to a few. Some racers were just not ready to drive in faster,cleaner traffic. And some racers were not ready for slower and unpredictable traffic. But as some have said " We all ended up where we should be". I think this was an overall good trial run. I also noticed and no one should forget while racing cars there will be accidents. Sometimes things just happen!

Anyway at this time I would like to put Dominic the Dominator onto the ballot for the fifth spot of the Hack Street Boys. He might be young but every group has a babyface!:D

At this time I would like to call Roll call for the beach let me know if your coming!

PadrinoNY
2010.09.18, 11:30 AM
Just thought I'd drop by and say hello to all. I hope everyone is doing great. Been so busy I ain't even had time to read whats going on

SaiTam
2010.09.18, 11:53 AM
Hey Pucho nice to hear from you. It's been a while.

Eugene I was actually planning to go to SI last night but somehow I got stuck in traffic during midday, 70 mins going from one end of Bklyn to another end. I had enough with the Friday traffic and called it a day, too bad there's no Saturday racing. BTW, I thought I wouldn't like this layout until I saw how well my car ran on it.

KA2AEV
2010.09.18, 01:38 PM
Okay so I figure why should Scott be the only one to ask The Forum their opinion on something :p

So here is goes :D


At what point do you determine that it is time to change your tires?

bermbuster
2010.09.18, 01:56 PM
Okay so I figure why should Scott be the only one to ask The Forum their opinion on something :p

So here is goes :D


At what point do you determine that it is time to change your tires?

I remember Al used to have in his display case some really paper thin tires.....
I think he may have even given an award for running them so long (thin).
I want to say it was Jonathan or Phil who ran them....:cool:

Fifty7
2010.09.18, 02:05 PM
I remember Al used to have in his display case some really paper thin tires.....
I think he may have even given an award for running them so long (thin).
I want to say it was Jonathan or Phil who ran them....:cool:

They are still in there. Jonathan's fronts and my rears. They are both paper thin and I'm not even sure how they ever stayed on.

Mike - There's is no right time to change tires. The wrong time however is right before a main:eek: It really depends on how the car is. I used to run a setup that for some reason was very hard on the tires and i had to change them as soon as the radials wore away. Now with the stiff setup in the 03 i can run them a lot longer and still have plenty of grip. Take a look at mine or Nats car, when we have to change rear tires we have both been looking for someone elses used ones so they're nice and worn in already.

EMU
2010.09.18, 02:36 PM
If I feel that the tire is going to need to be changed in the race night, I try to do it early. New tires need to scrub in to have a consistent grip level. I probably run 1 set of front tires per 5 or 6 rear sets. I felt going into the main that I should have changed my wide tires, but knew going into the third heat that they werent going to scrub in by the main. I think I made the right choice in keeping the older tire on and keeping the setup that I was used to driving instead of risking going to the new set of tires in search of a little more rear grip, which wasnt necessarily going to be there.

The track was a little cold, so a tire with a little tread would grip a little better than a slick. Too much tread, the tire squirms. With Kyosho 20d radials, once it wears down to half the radial height, it has much less squirm, and gains temperature faster than the slick. I like them best when you can still see the tread, but it is less than a millimeter.

In general, I dont think many people use the PN rear tires at Action, so there is not much PN rubber layed down on the track, which hurts their performance. I would change them a lot more often than the Kyosho tires. Sometimes they dont work on the track even when there is still good tread left. I run these on the AWD cars, since I dont want quite as much grip as a Kyosho 20d radial has.

One major thing to look at with tire wear, is the rollout, or outside diameter. When you put on new tires, the car is faster than with old tires. Think of the tire size as you would gearing of the motor/diff. Thinner tires also have less mass, so is going to be faster in reaction to changes of throttle/steering.

Mod cars I like larger wheels/tires, stock cars I like thin tires. Tire temperatures make a big difference with how the tire grips the track. When you are over or under the temperature that the tire works well at, you lose grip. New tires have more rubber, and take longer to warm up, but can be pushed harder without going over its operating temperature.

I typically do my setup and work the kinks out of my cars with worn tires. I dont want to setup the car with new tires, because I want to make sure that the car works well especially when it has worn tires and when I go to new tires, it adds speed and more drive out of the corner...

In conclusion, there are many factors that determine the right time to change tires. You really have to think about the conditions, motor application, and grip balance. If you setup the tire balance for used rear tires, it will push a little with new rears, but give you more drive and straight away speed. Once the tires wear, the balance will still be good, and the car will still be driveable...

J-Milz
2010.09.18, 05:27 PM
Eugene I'm only 10-15 from the ferry. You should have said something. Those SI trains suck!

Slapstick10
2010.09.18, 06:37 PM
Jamil- I'm glad you mentioned how close you were to the ferry. After I beat your butt at the beach tomorrow. You will be dazed and confused and need to take the ferry to work. To disorientated to drive!!!!lmao

EMU
2010.09.18, 07:50 PM
Jamil, Kevin gave me a lift to the ferry... so there were no problems there. I just missed the ferry by 2 minutes (heard the horn as I walked up the stairs).

Slapstick10
2010.09.19, 07:27 AM
B e a c h !:d

hpotter
2010.09.19, 07:45 PM
B e a c h !:d

Went to the beach today and Wow! A huge thumbs up to Dominick and Austio aka Austin :). Austin took third in his main and showed his ever growing driving ability and proved that even the younger guys can follow the rules; there were a few times when cars got into it and Austin ended up furthur down the track, but instead of just going straight he turned around and went through the track the correct way, nice going. Hmm, what word to describe Dominicks race, uh, "DOMINATION", taking the B Main win again and believe me he made it look easy (even though it wasn't). Now I just have to get a car :D.

EMU
2010.09.19, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the details Tom :) Wish I could see the race at least...

Slapstick10
2010.09.20, 06:57 AM
Rob wins Mini A Main
Scott Placed 5 or 6 Amain
Austio...lmao 3rd in Dmain
Dominator destroys the B main....ouch almost felt bad for the men with 10+ years in rc!!!

VTA

I think Rob won but not sure it was close
Scott finished 4th A main

I think overall it was a good day. But to watch Dominic in the race really was amazing. Tom is so right the lines this kid ran......priceless!! And Austin got hit so hard he got flung across the track and made his was back to make sure he ran the whole track. I have never told nor taught that to him. He did it on his own and I am very proud!:D

Slapstick10
2010.09.20, 07:09 AM
Okay so I figure why should Scott be the only one to ask The Forum their opinion on something :p

So here is goes :D


At what point do you determine that it is time to change your tires?

After reading EMu'S post I was kind of intimidated to post. But the more and more I think about...thats to much thinking for me. I really only race at Al's so I think we can Agree that the flavor for tire is Kyosho. I change my tires when they need to be changed. This last track I needed to change my tires because my rear end started to become loose. Before trying to wrench the problem I changed the tires! Before this track I ran the same tires for 2 months. I think it really depends on your driving style. More aggressive means more tires!!! Mike your style is very tame......your good to go for a few months!

Fifty7
2010.09.20, 01:13 PM
Congrats to everyone representing ARCMS at the beach. How many more weekends are left for that anyway?

hpotter
2010.09.20, 04:24 PM
Congrats to everyone representing ARCMS at the beach. How many more weekends are left for that anyway?

I think there are 2 more races

Slapstick10
2010.09.20, 06:01 PM
Potter can you call me?

ActionRC
2010.09.21, 05:17 PM
HEY EVERYBODY! I have had so much trouble getting a message to post on the forum lately for some reason. It's like th epage wpn't upload after I type a nessage, and it gives me a window that it cannot find ther website. Seems better today at least - so far! It's after 5, and I am going home, but I just wanted to let everyone know for now that points are updated on the forum. (Scott - Check out Rally! :mad: )

I hope you all liked the new layout last night. I can't believe that I added more turns, and yet the lap times came DOWN! I don't get it! :confused:

Slapstick10
2010.09.21, 08:06 PM
So as most of you know I sold my mustang. I figured I would get a corvette. I went see the first one today. I'm looking for a 72-81 stingray body style.

My first look at a 1981 c3 corvette was horrible. I could not hold a straight face from laughing as he is trying to sell me this junk box. Don't get me wrong some of you have saw he pics of the car I'm talking about. The car is sweet on the outside but bitter under the hood. Let say that I'm surprised the front end was still in tact. As the ball joints ready to fall off, the tie rods omg ...... The center link I could slide it back and forth with my hand. It also needs tires, ac comp, tune up, has an exhaust leak from the flange on he manifold .... Tightning it wouldn't help. Ok...... Let's get to the chassis..... Spot rot all over! I said to the guy didn't I ask you about rot. He said I thought you mention on the body..... You do know that the body of a stingray is full fiberglass....... Da!!!!!!!!

Need I say more!

J-Milz
2010.09.21, 08:46 PM
So how much did ya pay for it?!!:D

danny250r
2010.09.21, 09:53 PM
So as most of you know I sold my mustang. I figured I would get a corvette. I went see the first one today. I'm looking for a 72-81 stingray body style.

My first look at a 1981 c3 corvette was horrible. I could not hold a straight face from laughing as he is trying to sell me this junk box. Don't get me wrong some of you have saw he pics of the car I'm talking about. The car is sweet on the outside but bitter under the hood. Let say that I'm surprised the front end was still in tact. As the ball joints ready to fall off, the tie rods omg ...... The center link I could slide it back and forth with my hand. It also needs tires, ac comp, tune up, has an exhaust leak from the flange on he manifold .... Tightning it wouldn't help. Ok...... Let's get to the chassis..... Spot rot all over! I said to the guy didn't I ask you about rot. He said I thought you mention on the body..... You do know that the body of a stingray is full fiberglass....... Da!!!!!!!!

Need I say more!
forget the vette go back to the stang :D

J-Milz
2010.09.22, 12:19 AM
forget the vette go back to the stang :D

Scott, I thought Danny was your friend? Friends don't let friends drive Fords!;)

hpotter
2010.09.22, 03:41 AM
forget the vette go back to the stang :d

C-A-M-A-R-O :d

Fifty7
2010.09.22, 08:28 AM
forget the vette go back to the stang :D


Motorcycle...with a side car for Austin & a trailer for Mini-Z stuff :D


Al - Yes, the site has been acting up for me too, sometimes cant even load the page just to read it

ActionRC
2010.09.22, 04:04 PM
I am still having a ton of trouble with this site. I am writing quick just so I can post a message while it's working okay. I cannot go back past this page for some reason, but hopefully all is well and I can't wait to race tonight! See everyone later! :D

hpotter
2010.09.22, 04:17 PM
I am still having a ton of trouble with this site. I am writing quick just so I can post a message while it's working okay. I cannot go back past this page for some reason, but hopefully all is well and I can't wait to race tonight! See everyone later! :D

Al clear your cookies and shortcut, restart and re-login and then resave your shortcut (there is probably a minor problem with the site also but it should help)

Fifty7
2010.09.22, 04:56 PM
Al clear your cookies and shortcut,

Does a MAC have cookies?? personally i like double stuff oreos:D

KA2AEV
2010.09.22, 05:18 PM
Does a MAC have cookies?? personally i like double stuff oreos:D

Oh man those are so good
Especially with a Huge Glass of COLD Milk :D

ActionRC
2010.09.23, 04:14 PM
Hey, everyone! I went to add the Wednesday night results to the points sheet, and I think I forgot them at the track. I'll do them ASAP.

I had a really good time last night. It is great to see the improvemnts of so many drivers right now. My car felt a little loose, but not terrible, and my diff feels pretty beat, so I may have to clean it out and rebuild it. (Am I supposed to clean it out and regrease it more than once every three years? :rolleyes: )

For those interested, I have some EX5 radios coming in for Friday. I have a couple left that are not spoken for. If anyone wants one, please pick up on Friday. This first batch will not last!

Fifty7
2010.09.24, 11:58 AM
Al - I dont want to bring up negative subjects but we haven't spoke since last week. Did Sunday's race want to make you throw up. I'm just getting over it and need a good Dover finish to make up for that stupidity.

Scrapper
2010.09.24, 03:43 PM
me and javier will see yall tonight

stu 2.4 new and improved


Team Action Rc

ActionRC
2010.09.24, 04:26 PM
Marty - Tony too a chance and lost with one lap to go. Just a few more feet and he would have won so it was worth the gamble. Clint Boyer took the same chance, cheated, and won! (And gets to keep the win!)

Think of this scenerio: I want to win the Daytona 500. My sole purpose is to have my name on the Daytona 500 trophy. I will not race again. I do not want to race again. I just want one chance and one win of the biggest race in the world. I build a car that is legal enough to pass initial inspection, but will not pass post-race inspection. After the race, I am caught. I still keep the in! My name would be on the trophy forever! It's a good risk if you're not in it for the long-haul career.

Should be a good night tonight - see everyone in a few!

danny250r
2010.09.24, 05:38 PM
me and javier will see yall tonight

stu 2.4 new and improved


Team Action Rc

Awww Sh** skittles and pizza tonight

hpotter
2010.09.25, 04:22 AM
Happy Birthdays go out to Al's son, Justin (knobby :D) and Tom Sr. A belated birthday wish to our beloved and missed Cropduster :).

TomSr
2010.09.25, 09:33 AM
Happy Birthdays go out to Al's son, Justin (knobby :D) and Tom Sr. A belated birthday wish to our beloved and missed Cropduster :).

Thanks so much Tom. We both really miss racing. Unfortunately the Friday schedule does not work for us - at least not during football season for Crop. :(

Scrapper
2010.09.25, 10:06 AM
i just want to put it out there that i outqualified al
i qualified 13 out of 28, i think 7 in b out of 8 qualified, there was a d main

I am a b driver

J-Milz
2010.09.25, 10:23 AM
Stugotts is back, baby! I heard he out qualified a few people too!:D

SaiTam
2010.09.25, 11:03 AM
i just want to put it out there that i outqualified al
i qualified 13 out of 28, i think 7 in b out of 8 qualified, there was a d main

I am a b driver

28 drivers? Was there a sponsored event last night? I couldn't make it to Action this week due to allergy or cold (I don't know which one). It could've been a 30 drivers' night and 3am wrap-up.

Scrapper
2010.09.25, 11:51 AM
sai i need you to fet my board

Fifty7
2010.09.25, 06:15 PM
28 drivers? Was there a sponsored event last night? I couldn't make it to Action this week due to allergy or cold (I don't know which one). It could've been a 30 drivers' night and 3am wrap-up.

Yup. Very large crowd but it moved along very smoothly. Stu drove well and earned his spot in the B. He was driving very smooth. He may not have been the fastest but he was smooth enough that he was not a problem to get around when you came up behind him. Good job and good to have you back at Action.

Thanks again Eugene and Shafiq for the help with my wide car. Wish I asked earlier but it should be good for next week.

KA2AEV
2010.09.25, 08:31 PM
28 drivers? Was there a sponsored event last night? I couldn't make it to Action this week due to allergy or cold (I don't know which one). It could've been a 30 drivers' night and 3am wrap-up.

Was a very crowded night but everything went smoothly even when Al wasn't there
Kudos to Johnathon and Jeff for keeping the Boyz in line
I still think there is some type of conspiracy going on
Last week in the Narrow C Main Jack pops in, now this week
Johnathon?
Hummmmmmm :rolleyes:

Fifty7
2010.09.26, 10:57 AM
Was a very crowded night but everything went smoothly even when Al wasn't there
Kudos to Johnathon and Jeff for keeping the Boyz in line
I still think there is some type of conspiracy going on
Last week in the Narrow C Main Jack pops in, now this week
Johnathon?
Hummmmmmm :rolleyes:

You know that you can learn a lot by following the fast guys so maybe he put himself there to help you guys. And anyway he didn't even win :D

J-Milz
2010.09.26, 12:03 PM
Team Antigua? :confused: Mike please enlighten us.

KA2AEV
2010.09.26, 02:14 PM
Team Antigua? :confused: Mike please enlighten us.

Jamil you've Got Mail

KA2AEV
2010.09.26, 02:15 PM
You know that you can learn a lot by following the fast guys so maybe he put himself there to help you guys. And anyway he didn't even win :D

Okay so thats it for Johnathon but how do you explain Jack last week? :rolleyes:

sounds like there may be a few sandbaggers amongst us!

J-Milz
2010.09.26, 03:25 PM
Jamil you've Got Mail

Ohhhhhhhhh! :eek:

Fifty7
2010.09.26, 10:09 PM
Okay so thats it for Johnathon but how do you explain Jack last week? :rolleyes:

sounds like there may be a few sandbaggers amongst us!

i cannot explain Jack

Fifty7
2010.09.27, 08:37 AM
Al - I'm very sorry but i am having a petition started to ban you from Dover Raceway:p

ActionRC
2010.09.27, 12:15 PM
Hey everyone! Thank you to everyone who came racing on Friday! We had a very large turnout, which included most of our regulars. What can we say, Sai? Action has an incredible and devoted group of Mini-Z racers! If only we had Crop, Sr., Jack, Jason, Kevin S., and Justin everyone on the points list would have been there! That was actually the largest turnout that we have had in a long time - up a few from the 21-24 we've been having on a more regular basis since switching to Fridays. (Saturdays hadn't topped 20 in a very long time.) As I have shown some of you in my log, the attendance has increased on a regular basis very much, and that is what is helping to keep everything alive. Keep it up, and again, thank you!

Wednesday and Friday points are up to date on the website, and drops have started kicking in. This was the most difficult time I had updating points! In addition to having to do two nights at once, we had drops, and alot of bumping between divisions. Aside from Eugene clinching Rally (which means we are free to hack him mercilessly now!) all classes are up in the air with many great battles. (Scott - take a look at Wide this week! Too bad you're on an upswing, and I'm on the smooth-as-glass curve that I have been on for 3 years!)

Thank you as always to Jeff for opening up for me, and to Jeff and Johnathan for running the races for a while while I stepped out for Justin's birthday party.

Stugotz: While I am very impressed with your improvement, as I told you in person, let's review the main:

Shafiq: 41
Dominick: 41
Marty: 41
Adam: 40 (lead lap)
Scott: 40 (leed lap)
Al: 40 (lead lap)
Jamil: 38 (all 10's, no 9's, including a 10.00 lap)
Stugotz: 5

All kidding aside, the qualifier I got to see you run in was very smooth and collected. You did really well. However, I only ran 1 - you ran 3 - and my diff still feels like a cheese grater! Keep up the good work!

Marty: This is terrible! Tony was not running well all day, but I did not get to hear why he pitted twice, which put him down 2 laps. What happened to him? Those are two bad Mulligans. He'll need Top 5's from here on out if he wants a shot at the Cup. That's going to be tough with how good the competition has been. It really wasn't a spectacular race, especially with the 48 winning. There were only 3 or 4 cautions, so the field didn't get bunched up very often. I hope they find something illegal on the 48 like they did the 33! I still had a great time either way.

I slowed the track down yet again this weekend (as I thought I did last week!), and I really like the new front chicane. It's very Watkins Glen! Enjoy, and I'll see everyone tonight!

jackg
2010.09.27, 02:48 PM
hey everyone! sorry to miss friday racing. Its jades birthday and the series of parties, family get togethers ect has me running around. i cant wait for this friday:D I also have been running some parking lot road course laps with my new Inferno GT2. I forgot how much i missed nitro:cool: i am going to race 1/8th scale on road touring cars for a while. All i need now is Chester P. to help set up my car to run like a Serpent... ;) -j

KA2AEV
2010.09.27, 05:29 PM
i cannot explain Jack

Marty, can anyone really?:D

Fifty7
2010.09.27, 05:38 PM
Marty: This is terrible! Tony was not running well all day, but I did not get to hear why he pitted twice, which put him down 2 laps. What happened to him? Those are two bad Mulligans. He'll need Top 5's from here on out if he wants a shot at the Cup. That's going to be tough with how good the competition has been. It really wasn't a spectacular race, especially with the 48 winning. There were only 3 or 4 cautions, so the field didn't get bunched up very often. I hope they find something illegal on the 48 like they did the 33! I still had a great time either way.

I slowed the track down yet again this weekend (as I thought I did last week!), and I really like the new front chicane. It's very Watkins Glen! Enjoy, and I'll see everyone tonight!

I know, he'll have to be perfect for the next 8 races. He had to come back in the 2nd time for a speeding penalty. The same thing happened at the last race there too. Only a few cautions and nothing bunching the leaders up

CDR racing
2010.09.27, 08:31 PM
i just want to put it out there that i outqualified al
i qualified 13 out of 28, i think 7 in b out of 8 qualified, there was a d main

I am a b driver

Anyone else see the makings of an "I'm TQ!" statement coming soon?

jackg
2010.09.28, 10:59 AM
i cannot explain Jack

i ran narrow with an 015 using one option part- a disk damper. Everything else bone stock. I was still building/adjusting the car during qualifing and as a result ended up in the C main. at that point the car was way better so i won the C, bumped up to the B and won that . i had planned on running the A in narrow but forgot to check with Al on the # of laps i needed on the B main field to bump to the A. I had a lap on the field after 7 minutes, i needed 2( which was possible, but i was taking it really easy in the last minutes of the B). so now you know. :p -j

Fifty7
2010.09.28, 12:00 PM
i ran narrow with an 015 using one option part- a disk damper. Everything else bone stock. I was still building/adjusting the car during qualifing and as a result ended up in the C main. at that point the car was way better so i won the C, bumped up to the B and won that . i had planned on running the A in narrow but forgot to check with Al on the # of laps i needed on the B main field to bump to the A. I had a lap on the field after 7 minutes, i needed 2( which was possible, but i was taking it really easy in the last minutes of the B). so now you know. :p -j

Tell the truth - You just wanted to see what is was like to run with the C guys

EMU
2010.09.28, 12:07 PM
Reflex is currently working on a spring over kingpin setup which is great for the really low bodies... It is very similar to 1/12 scale pan car front suspension... Im looking forward to trying it... I expect it to be very smooth, with minimal binding. Adjustments in preload will be more difficult, but once its setup, I dont think there will be many adjustments needed.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Xz71n0H7MDw/TKAf_9ItI3I/AAAAAAAAAII/adW8pIcX5dY/s1600/RX1167_1.jpg

I would recommend using such suspension with the Reflex tower or PN arms to adjust camber rather than using shims above/below the knuckle to increase camber. You can also use the stock kingpin reversed if you would rather use the stock spring location and shims above/under the knuckle to adjust camber.

SaiTam
2010.09.28, 12:24 PM
Looks like you can still use OEM spring setup, correct?

EMU
2010.09.28, 12:42 PM
You should, but not with the RR delrin arms.

ActionRC
2010.09.29, 04:52 PM
Cool part, Eugene. Lower CG, too. Very nice.

I can't wait to race tonight! I want to yell out "I'm TQ!" even if it's for the B!

bermbuster
2010.09.29, 05:22 PM
how close to the ground is the kingpin? Can it possibly snag on uneven tiles?

EMU
2010.09.29, 05:36 PM
It doesnt look any lower than my reverse kingpin setup with the stock kingpins. So it should be fine. If you use wide offset wheels, it may be something to worry about. I almost always use 0mm front wheels, so it shouldnt be a problem.

rajiex
2010.09.29, 06:22 PM
Cool part, Eugene. Lower CG, too. Very nice.

I can't wait to race tonight! I want to yell out "I'm TQ!" even if it's for the B!

Don't get so ****y. Stranger things have happened. Accidents may happen on the final lap. LOL

Slapstick10
2010.09.30, 11:22 AM
Ive been cosumed with Covettte fever.....its over I got my car. Looks good , sounds good ....I think I made the right decision.

As for all you people with meltdowns last night. You guys know who you are. I believe all of you have valid points. The problem seems to be with the A Main. You guys are supposed to be the best of the best. Racers use the term Hacker to easy at Action. I think Adam had a great idea....Change the A Main to Crash n Burn. No marshals. You flip,get stuck,breakdown,body comes off....tough luck your race is over. It will tame the aggresive guys a little bit. The rules are If you can drive it ....your still in the race. No outside help , marshals will only remove cars from track.

Marshals

Al I think its over due. Move the good year tire by the computer and replace it with a table. After the race, drivers will put there car and remote on the table and marshal

I think the only exception I would make to this rule would be if you breakdown in the race. It would give you extra time to wrench you car.

Time between races

Way to short. Right after the A Main is finished with there qual...Al is like next group is up in 5 minutes. Alot of guys come straight from work( Al included ) the hustle and bustle all day and then to do it at the track is sometimes overwhelming. This a hobby not a job.

Final thought

We are all friends but have different racing styles. Some are aggresive, some are tame and alot are inexpierenced. I think everone is a sore looser in this hobby. The only one I havent heard bitch about a race at one point or another is Tom Sr.

I asked Al to change the qualifiers up a couple of weeks ago between a-b. I dont think it was so bad. The guys that complained about it are the same guys complaining now. It was fun to race with the fast guys.

If Al lets me I am going to start a Marshal sign up sheet. Pre-quals so everone knows before the races start when they will be marshaling. And the mains....everyone marshals. just a thought!:D

J-Milz
2010.09.30, 11:45 AM
I've been to a few offroad tracks that use the table system. After a race/qual you place ur car on the table, then you marshall. No if, ands or .....It also allows the "track" to tech ur car as well if need be. Perhaps a table beneath Al's announcers stand will due. The current system of marshaling is fine, the problem seems to be with the same few guys who seem to be the non marshaling recidivist. :eek:

jackg
2010.09.30, 12:05 PM
i agree with jamil. in 10th scale i would always expect a tech inspection after any quals because of the car/radio impound. but it also gets the car and trans out of the drivers hands and frees them up to marshall.-j

ActionRC
2010.09.30, 04:39 PM
I really don't want to take last night any further. Yes, I got mad that I was missing an entire group of marshals when they were supposed to be out there and the C Main waited. Smokers seem to be the worst offenders, as they seem (in my opinion) to go outside and think they are immune to marshalling sometimes. I have made it as easy as I possibly could on people by keeping a list of who marshaled, and at the end of the night as the qualifiers are running out, I can easily see who marshaled and who didn't. The system works great, and I don't mind doing it so that everyone can have as much time as possible to NOT marshal. The problem last night was in the mains, when I do NOT assign marshals because that is the only time that everyone is supposed to be out there, and only Dan and Roland were. I cannot make it easier for everyone than I do. I should not have to keep track of marshals, but I do. (And I am only talking about last night. I know many of you marshal all night all the time voluntarily.) I like my system better for qualifying marshals than the drop-off table (which I am used to also from my racing days) because I give you max time in the pits. Believe me - it would be much easier for me to not have to keep the list I do, and not start a race until every car is on the drop-off table, but I like to treat you guys better than that (although I don't think that is understood or appreciated sometimes.) The system works fine, and I would like to keep doing it. However, for the mains, I will not start a race until all of the marshals are out there, and if dropping the cars off to me is what it takes to accomplish that, or if we must label each section of the track 1-8 and have assigned spots, than that is what we will do. I will not go through what I went through last night again. It is not fair for me to have to go through that. I think I treat everyone with a lot more respect than I got last night. That's really all I want to talk about about this topic. Please end it at that. Since it was left in my hands, I will take care of it, and it is not up for discussion.

Scott - No marshals would be ridiculous. I cannot even believe you're suggesting that, unless you're joking. As far as time between races, I allow 3 minutes between each heat, and 10 minutes between rounds. On a Wednesday with 3 groups, that means you have 26 minutes before your next race, (assuming I am completely on schedule, which I am usually not by a few minutes) which also allows me to have 3 rounds of qualifiers. How is this not enough time? On Fridays, you have even more time. I don't understand this point, or how it relates to people coming from work. We don't start until 8 - that's one hour to get ready (2 on Friday), and it's been this way for 6 years. It's an issue now? Come in, charge your batteries, take some practice laps, and you're good to go. How is an hour not enough time, when the car was up and running just 2 nights before? (Unless something broke, which could have been fixed at home.) I'm not sure why we are (publically) creating issues that don't exist. Stirring the pot is one thing, but let's not throw ingredients in for no reason. I agree with you about the mixed up random A/B qualifiers. It was fun, and something cool to try. I have no problem trying that again. I also agree with you that people need to take the seriousness and aggressiveness down a notch.

Everyone enjoy yourselves, have fun, and keep in perspective that we're racing toy cars for fun. If anyone finds that they're taking it too seriously - breath, and chill out. It's a hobby, not a career. (It's not even a career for me, and I own the place! :o)

ActionRC
2010.09.30, 04:46 PM
Deleted duplicate post - Mini-Z racer is acting up again! - Al

SaiTam
2010.09.30, 11:19 PM
Is the track opening at 6pm tomorrow or earlier?

ShortBus
2010.09.30, 11:25 PM
Sai, I am opening tomorrow and always do my best to be there between 5:30-6pm.

Jeff S

Fifty7
2010.10.01, 08:41 AM
Looks like i missed a "fun" Wednesday, cant wait for tonight to test out my changes to the wide body.

SaiTam
2010.10.01, 11:01 AM
Has the weather affected the track and the nearby area? Any Flood or Loss of Power? I had to turn around on the West Side Hwy this morning due to floods and I heard many people lost power.

Fifty7
2010.10.01, 11:49 AM
Has the weather affected the track and the nearby area? Any Flood or Loss of Power? I had to turn around on the West Side Hwy this morning due to floods and I heard many people lost power.

Sai - My office is only a few blocks from the track - The neighborhood is fine, dont think we got what they expected and right now it's just a steady light rain.

SaiTam
2010.10.01, 12:02 PM
Sounds good I need to plan my route from Manhattan for tonight.

ActionRC
2010.10.01, 04:03 PM
Arthur Kill Rd north of Sharrotts was flooded this morning, but it's probably fine by now. Jeff will be there to open at 6 as usual. I was at the track last night until 10:30 working on the soap box cars, and everything was fine. We haven't had any rain problems since they fixed the roof by the windows. Only the hallway by the bathroom has a leaky spot, but I put the bucket there last night in case it got bad, so it should be fine. The AC is on, and all should be well. Looking forward to a great night of racing! :D

philly123
2010.10.02, 02:15 AM
Great racing tonight. Good to see everyone improving, especially the younger crowd. See everyone soon.

Slapstick10
2010.10.02, 09:23 AM
Hey bud it was great to see you last night. Keep in mind that off road thing I mentioned. Just let me know what the bottom line is!

hpotter
2010.10.02, 04:12 PM
Great racing tonight. Good to see everyone improving, especially the younger crowd. See everyone soon.

Does that include me??

EMU
2010.10.02, 04:21 PM
Does that include me??

Of course not, your old like me :rolleyes:

J-Milz
2010.10.02, 04:22 PM
No love for the Code-meister?:). We should have a where are they now Action edition of all the past racers.

hpotter
2010.10.02, 04:42 PM
Of course not, your old like me :rolleyes:

Haha your a spring chicken compared to me--any hoo chronological age is just a number and I'm proud that my maturity level hovers between 6 and 7 :).

Fifty7
2010.10.02, 07:11 PM
Haha your a spring chicken compared to me--any hoo chronological age is just a number and I'm proud that my maturity level hovers between 6 and 7 :).

I'm with ya pal. Entering a new decade the end of this month but thanks to my PS3 and ARCMS i will always be a child.:D

Great racing last night everybody. Lots of good fun racing. Still wish we had video of the A Narrow finish, that was the funniest thing i've seen in a while. I'm a little disappointed in my wide car not being good enough for me to make the A but man what a B main that was. Awesome driving by everyone involved in that one.

Scrapper
2010.10.02, 07:39 PM
stuey has moved on up to an entire townhouse, I temporarily set up 8x10 micro t track wjhere gym will be and will move it to basement area soon,

btw with a single miniz i think track will act like mini 96

Al give me quote on am detecting lap counter

KA2AEV
2010.10.02, 10:22 PM
WOW
Exciting Day of Racing in Westerleigh Park
Congrats to Our Justin and Julianna (The New Danica)
On their Wins!
Golddust even got a Trophy!
This Soapbox Derby is something everyone has to see
Team Golddust Is Hooked

hpotter
2010.10.03, 12:36 AM
I'm with ya pal. Entering a new decade the end of this month but thanks to my PS3 and ARCMS i will always be a child.:D

Great racing last night everybody. Lots of good fun racing. Still wish we had video of the A Narrow finish, that was the funniest thing i've seen in a while. I'm a little disappointed in my wide car not being good enough for me to make the A but man what a B main that was. Awesome driving by everyone involved in that one.

I don't think that finish in Narrow will ever be duplicated, I was just happy to be a part of it :D. That B-Main was a fun one to watch.

bermbuster
2010.10.03, 08:02 AM
WOW
Exciting Day of Racing in Westerleigh Park
Congrats to Our Justin and Julianna (The New Danica)
On their Wins!
Golddust even got a Trophy!
This Soapbox Derby is something everyone has to see
Team Golddust Is Hooked

Any pics or video???
I did the soap box derby back in the day...good memories....:D

Fifty7
2010.10.03, 01:31 PM
Just saw a trailer for the new NASCAR '11 game and it looks incredible!!

CDR racing
2010.10.03, 02:10 PM
Just saw a trailer for the new NASCAR '11 game and it looks incredible!!

There's a Nascar '11 game? or you talking about the one on GT5?

Fifty7
2010.10.03, 04:07 PM
There's a Nascar '11 game? or you talking about the one on GT5?

Nope. A new NASCAR game coming in February.

CDR racing
2010.10.03, 04:18 PM
Nope. A new NASCAR game coming in February.

Oh send me info!

EMU
2010.10.03, 04:19 PM
Nope. A new NASCAR game coming in February.What system?

Fifty7
2010.10.03, 09:32 PM
What system?

PS3, Xbox & Wii

www.nascarthegame.com

EMU
2010.10.03, 10:24 PM
I meant, which system are you getting it for? If enough people that I know get it, I would consider getting it to race them :)

Playing Forza III, I have learned a good deal about setup, which actually translates a little to Mini-Z. I just dont like racing against a lot of random people. I much rather would race against people that I know.

CDR racing
2010.10.03, 11:12 PM
I meant, which system are you getting it for? If enough people that I know get it, I would consider getting it to race them :)

Playing Forza III, I have learned a good deal about setup, which actually translates a little to Mini-Z. I just dont like racing against a lot of random people. I much rather would race against people that I know.

Wow that looks sick...I'll definitely be getting it for 360!

EMU
2010.10.04, 12:18 AM
The video doesnt show gameplay footage, so I dont really expect the game to look the same... Im interested in seeing how it looks in game. It would definitely help my Nascar oval tuning ;) (forza doesnt seperate the L:R wheels fortire pressure/compound, camber and spring, and I want to figure out what wedge does to the car, I understand fundamentally but want to feel what it does with various spring/camber combinations).

Fifty7
2010.10.04, 07:45 AM
I have PS3. I know it wasn't game play footage but I'm hoping it's close. I hardly play online, I like to but I can't deal with the cheaters and people who play just to screw with you.

Fifty7
2010.10.04, 08:24 AM
OK Since it's been two years and i've never touched them, can someone tell me what changing the upper and lower damper springs are specifically supposed to do. What should happen with a harder or softer spring on top and same question for the bottom.

Kevin S.
2010.10.04, 12:02 PM
Here is a link to the Launch Trailer for NASCAR the Game 2011. It looks awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/eutechnyxtv

EMU
2010.10.04, 01:21 PM
Marty, harder top spring will give you more rear traction on throttle, harder bottom spring will give you more front traction on throttle. I typically use the same spring rate for both, but preload the upper spring a little more than the bottom.

ActionRC
2010.10.04, 02:18 PM
HI EVERYONE! Points are updated for Wednesday and Friday right now!

I had a great time racing Friday night. My car was not great, but I had some fun battles. Even with Eugene gone for a night celebrating his b'day (Happy B'day EMU!) I still lost the Rally Main to Danny on his first night in Rally! That A main Narrow finish was amazing!

I saw the preview for Nascar the Game yesterday too and starting flipping out looking for Justin to show him, but I was on a non-Tivo box and couldn't rewind it. I love how you can turn the viewpoint side to side from the in-car, like you're turning your head. Justin told me Forza does that too, but I never knew how to. I saw that preview on Speed and the hair stood up on my arms and my eyes started tearing! I was so excited! I need that game!

We had a very successful day at the Soap Box races! Justin won the 8-9 year old division, Juliana made it to the top 2, losing to a $500 Craig's list bought pro-car by 1.5 feet when she started on the grid 2' back because they lined up the cars by the rear wheels, not the front,a nd her car was 2' shorter. She would have won, and everyone told her she won because she started further back AND had a true soap box home-built car. We won best engineering for our steering and brake design, and then there's our friend Golddust. I did not drive my orange car because I had the only adult class car, and Golddust and Big Mike came to watch, so I asked Golddust to drive. Needless to say, Mary was a little nervous. (I know there will be adult cars again next year or in the spring!) We need some ARCMS representation!

GD's first practice run - good, but veered left when he had to let go of the cable to hit the brake. Not terrible, and it takes some getting used to adjusting your hands to keep the axle straight with one hand.

2nd run (1st qualifier) - Set fastest time, veered left, slammed the wheel into the curb and bent it pretty good. We took it off and stepped on it to straighten it out. Got it okay.

3rd run (1st Round Finals) - Set fastest again - stayed perfectly straight because he NEVER HIT THE BRAKE! He wanted to win so badly that he stayed straight and let the hay bales do their thing. The car smashed the bales, jumped in the air, flupped on it's side, and Golddust stood up triumphantly with a few scratches with his thumbs in the air that he was okay! The crowd went wild! The front axle board shattered, and we could not move on to the finals, which probably would have been Golddust vs. Juliana or the Craigs List pro car. He won a trophy for 4th in finals, and also won a Best Crash Trophy! I am hoping to find some video of my kids races and Golddust's - you guys have to see his crash - it was the ultimate Golddust moment! I was so proud of him that he kept getting in that car to go faster and faster, despite it veering and being a bit of a scary run.

Juliana wanted to win the final so badly that she too hit the brake as late as possible. She too slammed the bales, bending our steering pully support and knocking out the steering, but it was the last race so she didn't mind. I have some rebuilding to do, but I was a proud crew-chief and team owner with 2 out of the 3 fastest cars in the 10-12 yr old finals,a nd the fastest 8-9 yr old division! (And we were faster than the pro-car being that she started 2' back and lost by 1.5'!) It was a really fun day, and I know Scott caught the bug too. I wish you guys would build cars!

See everyone for practice tonight. I added a really cool section, and made three changes alltogether. Should be fun! See ya'll later!

TomSr
2010.10.04, 02:58 PM
Congratulations to Team ARCMS (drivers: Justin, Juliana, and Golddust and pit crew:Al) on the Westerleigh Park results! Wish I had been there to watch.:)

Fifty7
2010.10.04, 03:48 PM
Marty, harder top spring will give you more rear traction on throttle, harder bottom spring will give you more front traction on throttle. I typically use the same spring rate for both, but preload the upper spring a little more than the bottom.


So if i'm looking for more rear traction with a harder spring and i put hard springs on both will they work against each other? Or is that the purpose of the upper preload. I'm just thinking that when you get more front traction it automatically loosens up the rear.

EMU
2010.10.04, 05:14 PM
Stiffer rear DPS springs in general, will give you less rear grip, as they will resist the rear end from moving. You will get less steering into the corner, and more coming out by switching them both to harder springs. Switching only the top to harder spring gives more on throttle push, and switching only the bottom to harder springs gives more on throttle steering. A softer bottom spring allows the rear of the car to squat more when throttle is applied. A stiffer bottom spring prevents the rear from squatting as much.

I use the harder spring on top, in conjunction with a top shock to control where in the corner/throttle I get my rotation. The rear will still squat a bit, but wont tilt the pod as much when throttle is given. It is what I am comfortable with.

KA2AEV
2010.10.04, 08:27 PM
"Golddust and Big Mike came to watch, so I asked Golddust to drive. Needless to say, Mary was a little nervous."

That was our Famous saying for the whole weekend,
And We Just Came To Watch! :D

Mary a Little Nervous?
Man thats a understatement :eek:



"3rd run (1st Round Finals) - Set fastest again - stayed perfectly straight because he NEVER HIT THE BRAKE! He wanted to win so badly that he stayed straight and let the hay bales do their thing. The car smashed the bales, jumped in the air, flupped on it's side, and Golddust stood up triumphantly with a few scratches with his thumbs in the air that he was okay! The crowd went wild! "

All I can say about this is that he has more of me in him than I thought
and he really knows how to work the crowd! :cool:
And you forgot to add about being covered with Hay from head to toe!




"Juliana wanted to win the final so badly that she too hit the brake as late as possible. She too slammed the bales, bending our steering pully support and knocking out the steering, but it was the last race so she didn't mind. I have some rebuilding to do, but I was a proud crew-chief and team owner with 2 out of the 3 fastest cars in the 10-12 yr old finals,a nd the fastest 8-9 yr old division! (And we were faster than the pro-car being that she started 2' back and lost by 1.5'!) It was a really fun day, and I know Scott caught the bug too. I wish you guys would build cars!"


From the trash talking between Juliana and Golddust I know she wanted a piece of him really badly in the finals!
Somehow I doubt this is over between them!
Actually Mary and I were discussing the Pinky and we came to same conclusion that she indeed did do this before many many times
even the way she held the line down the track I would really believe that
if I looked up in the Derby results from across the area that we would find her
picture there many times
Tell Danica that she got cheated!:)


![/I]

Somehow I didn't add my comments correctly into it


Al if you do find any pictures of the crash let me know
I was in a state of shock when I saw the car go airborn and
it really did not register! ;)

Fifty7
2010.10.05, 07:57 AM
Stiffer rear DPS springs in general, will give you less rear grip, as they will resist the rear end from moving. You will get less steering into the corner, and more coming out by switching them both to harder springs. Switching only the top to harder spring gives more on throttle push, and switching only the bottom to harder springs gives more on throttle steering. A softer bottom spring allows the rear of the car to squat more when throttle is applied. A stiffer bottom spring prevents the rear from squatting as much.

I use the harder spring on top, in conjunction with a top shock to control where in the corner/throttle I get my rotation. The rear will still squat a bit, but wont tilt the pod as much when throttle is given. It is what I am comfortable with.

Thanks, I'll have to play with those springs on Friday.

SaiTam
2010.10.05, 11:11 AM
My Narrow car was twitchy out of the corners last Friday with the top damper spring; I removed the spring and top disc at the Main and car was easier to drive. Do you run the DDS dry or wet?

EMU
2010.10.05, 11:53 AM
That allows more down travel. You might have been bottoming out the car on corner exit with the upper spring/disc installed/?

I try to run my setups dry, but if they chatter a little, I add a little ruby lube or light grease.

SaiTam
2010.10.05, 11:57 AM
Here are photos of my DDS and front susp. setup for my F355. I think I did a 9.3x in the main. EMU wasn't around so the lap time could've been lower. Marty don't forget the Toe-out rods influence MR-03 cornering quite a bit. I use .5 toe-out B type bar.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30665&stc=1&d=1286294187
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30666&stc=1&d=1286294187
http://www.egrracing.com/shop/images/addition_atomic/MR3-011-014_install.jpg

Fifty7
2010.10.05, 01:06 PM
Here are photos of my DDS and front susp. setup for my F355. I think I did a 9.3x in the main. EMU wasn't around so the lap time could've been lower. Marty don't forget the Toe-out rods influence MR-03 cornering quite a bit. I use .5 toe-out B type bar.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30665&stc=1&d=1286294187
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30666&stc=1&d=1286294187
http://www.egrracing.com/shop/images/addition_atomic/MR3-011-014_install.jpg

I think I'm getting in too deep here, trying to do too many things at one time. I run the DDS with a little vaseline. I am running the stock toe bars in wide & narrow. Heres the whole story (as short as possible). I had a 94mm Wide Ferrari 430GT. The car was amazing and i was consistently making the A main. All of a sudden it went away and the worst part was slow, fast or any speed in between it would flip over very easily. This all started after changing nothing. So 1 at a time i changed every part in the car including the chassis. After a month of working on it with help from a bunch of people I finally gave up and went to the 98mm Mosler. It was an improvement but it is still not as good as it was. I have a LOT of steering right now. I have a reflex front end with yellow springs and stock knuckles. I had the aluminum low downs on the ferrari but never put them back on when i was trying to diagnose the problem. I usually run Kyosho 30's front and 20's rear (both radial) with green springs. In order to stop spinning out i went to the yellow springs and Kyosho 40's in front. I expected to not even be able to turn but i still have enough steering to drive the car and i still find the rear kicking out on me. This is what started the whole conversation of the rear dds springs because i have never tried anything other than whats in there (which i think is red on top and green on bottom). I also think it may be time to do something with the diff, i have cleaned it, changed plates and balls and to me it still feels a little gritty so that could be part of the problem. Anyone who wants to look at it on Friday, I'm open to suggestions.

ActionRC
2010.10.05, 02:47 PM
Fun practice night last night! The track has officially slowed down!

Marty - I would love to drive your car and see if it's better or worse than mine.

Anyone hear NASCAR radio on Sirius this morning around 8am? I had a nice conversation with the guys about Action RC points vs. Nascar points. It was fun! :D

Fifty7
2010.10.05, 03:08 PM
Fun practice night last night! The track has officially slowed down!

Marty - I would love to drive your car and see if it's better or worse than mine.

Anyone hear NASCAR radio on Sirius this morning around 8am? I had a nice conversation with the guys about Action RC points vs. Nascar points. It was fun! :D

You're welcome to give it a try Friday. It's probably more aggressive than what you like to drive. The whole problem could just be it's too fast. I know, practice what you preach and i should know by now there's a reason i do more laps and the same fast laps with my slow narrow car but i just cant bring myself to slow it down. It would definitely help me consistently win the B if i slowed it down but i want off that bubble.

I dont have sirius but any chance you convinced them to drop Tonys 2 worst weeks ;)

EMU
2010.10.05, 05:23 PM
Marty, change the bearing in the diff ;)

Fifty7
2010.10.05, 06:56 PM
Marty, change the bearing in the diff ;)

i will try it thanks

EMU
2010.10.05, 11:28 PM
Let me drive your car Friday...

Fifty7
2010.10.06, 08:26 AM
Let me drive your car Friday...

OK but if you say its a piece of junk and offer me $10 bucks for it, i wont fall for it.

EMU
2010.10.06, 01:06 PM
$10 is too generous, I was thinking $5.

I just want to try to get it worked out for ya ;) There may be something really small that you are missing...

KA2AEV
2010.10.06, 04:31 PM
I just want to try to get it worked out for ya ;) There may be something really small that you are missing...



Okay there's a Joke in there someplace :D

EMU
2010.10.06, 05:05 PM
Okay there's a Joke in there someplace :D

Think what you want... most of us use these forums for setup and racing talk, not just joking around. :p

(edit, sorry, forgot the smiley face)

Fifty7
2010.10.06, 05:11 PM
$10 is too generous, I was thinking $5.

I just want to try to get it worked out for ya ;) There may be something really small that you are missing...

I would appreciate it and I wouldn't doubt it was something minor I am overlooking. I don't spend enough time working on these things to really understand the littl things about setting them up. I just put the harder SSS springs in and swapped out the diff which now feels smooth. In hoping to sneak out and make it there tonight to test it out bit either way I welcome your setup input in Friday.

EMU
2010.10.07, 03:25 AM
Glad to hear that your diff is smooth again. All of the little things add up to the setup... Sometimes its just one small thing that makes the car setup great or not working. I do a lot of benchtesting before a setup ever hits the track. If it doesnt work in the pits properly, it wont on the track. Feel for any binding of any sort on the suspension front and rear. Make sure the wheels are true (not bent), and dont wobble or bind, and bearings spin freely. If not, replace the bearings... I try to always have good stock in bearings, so I can replace when needed.

Fifty7
2010.10.07, 08:24 AM
Glad to hear that your diff is smooth again. All of the little things add up to the setup... Sometimes its just one small thing that makes the car setup great or not working. I do a lot of benchtesting before a setup ever hits the track. If it doesnt work in the pits properly, it wont on the track. Feel for any binding of any sort on the suspension front and rear. Make sure the wheels are true (not bent), and dont wobble or bind, and bearings spin freely. If not, replace the bearings... I try to always have good stock in bearings, so I can replace when needed.

I did get down there last night and the car was a little better, still just a little too loose for my taste (with new Kyosho 20's). I won the B by a lap and was 2 laps down to the A but that was Sai, Jonathan, Roland and Nat so even if the car was good i dont keep up with them. There seemed to be a few people having the same issues and the weather has changed so it could just be the cooler temps.

Number1
2010.10.07, 02:40 PM
C-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmraJAPtLro

B-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovt-UFMDSk

A-Main: NO, you don't want to see it!

ActionRC
2010.10.07, 04:25 PM
THE A WAS SPECTACULAR! C'mon Roland!!! :confused::eek::mad::(:D

People need to see that race!

Number1
2010.10.07, 06:19 PM
What a shame, for all those A-mainers. made more mistakes than the B-mainers.:eek::(:mad::confused:

Al, they should all start their qualifying with the B-main group next week.

Fifty7
2010.10.07, 08:28 PM
C-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmraJAPtLro

B-Main: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovt-UFMDSk

A-Main: NO, you don't want to see it!

You've got to be kidding me!!! Suck it up and post the "in the wall main" . You know, whenever a new person is introduced to ARCMS one of the big points is that the "better" drivers are always willing to help out the beginners and you know people always say you can learn from your mistakes. Well you are depriving the people of a months worth of mistakes to learn from by not posting that video.
All kidding aside, when the cars werent bouncing boards the racing was really great. Clean (with each other, not the boards) passing and close battles the whole time.

Oh and as far as next weeks qualifying...stay where you are we dont want you guys messing up our perfectly clean "B" races. :)

SaiTam
2010.10.07, 09:38 PM
Stop hiding the video just because I won the race; my car / my driving and the competitors weren't very good altogether. Lame A-main win. http://www.youtube.com/user/Nnumbberrone#p/a/u/0/XiJS6kof81g

KA2AEV
2010.10.07, 09:49 PM
Think what you want... most of us use these forums for setup and racing talk, not just joking around. :p

(edit, sorry, forgot the smiley face)

Gee I forgot that this isn't supposed to be a fun place that this
is really serious and not a hobby:p

Sorry Won't do it again:eek:

Fifty7
2010.10.07, 10:23 PM
Stop hiding the video just because I won the race; my car / my driving and the competitors weren't very good altogether. Lame A-main win. http://www.youtube.com/user/Nnumbberrone#p/a/u/0/XiJS6kof81g

It wasnt as bad as i thought, i only counted Al saying"in the boards" 23 times:eek::eek: