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gulfclk
2005.11.12, 02:24 PM
I'm currently having a big dilema ... here's the deal. I'm creating a new (rolling) chassis (not my first one!). If there's enough intrest, parts and chassis will be commercialised.
But ... both versions are ready on the drawing table, but I want your opinion ... RM or MM.
Before telling me the MM version is always better, let me share some details.

- The front suspension will be the same on both cars. This means a CG that low it will rock the planet. Very much attention to details. Some obvious stuff ... but I haven't seen anyone doing this before.
- The batteries are placed in the center of the chassis, one behind the other. Electronics will be on the side of the car, so very well balanced.
- Standard mini-Z parts can be used. Motor mount, H-plates, knuckles, ... are on the market already.

For the 2 version ...

MM: Wheelbase will be 115mm. Will only carry 1/24th scale Le Mans bodies like Porsche 962 and Mercedes prototype. Short MR-02 H-plate and commercial MM motormount.

RM: Wheelbase 98mm like the regular MR-02, but with the motor in the back. H-plates are MR-02 MM (so short to reduce flex on acceleration) and an ultra short and compact motor mount.

For both versions, a friction damper system is possible, not sitting any higher than the CG of the car.

So ... before telling me the MM is always better because of 'on power understeer' on the RM version and saying that the MM version is more neutral, think of the driving style. The RM will handle like a 1/10 car and could be steered with the throttle, which I personally like more.
Also, the MM version is 1/24th scale, while the RM version is more towards 1/27th.

Let me know what you think.

docsavage
2005.11.13, 07:56 PM
Either would be cool. The thing that interests me is emulating the reactive camber system on the front, and maybe an independent rear suspension!

We have been talking trash about building CF cars to run in a prototype class over here. With lithium cells, and high cap speed controllers. Personally I won't be happy with anything less than AA Lithium X4, and a BB custom wind 130, or 180 motor.

Some double wide rims would be live too. To handle all that power you'll need wider rubbers. Porsche 962 body or XJR9 would be awesome, maybe even a mustang probe, or Chevy Intrepid......ahhhh.

Anyway, there's my wish-list. One guy in Italy roughed out a CF car that looks awesome, 1/27th scale 4WD.

Doc

Ninja
2005.11.14, 01:19 AM
dude, mustang probe, and chevy intrepid? do you know anything about real cars? not to be mean, but obviously not, Mustang and Probe are 2 totally different cars, and the Intrepid is made by Dodge, NOT Chevy ;)

gulfclk
2005.11.14, 06:32 AM
Either would be cool. The thing that interests me is emulating the reactive camber system on the front, and maybe an independent rear suspension!

We have been talking trash about building CF cars to run in a prototype class over here. With lithium cells, and high cap speed controllers. Personally I won't be happy with anything less than AA Lithium X4, and a BB custom wind 130, or 180 motor.

Some double wide rims would be live too. To handle all that power you'll need wider rubbers. Porsche 962 body or XJR9 would be awesome, maybe even a mustang probe, or Chevy Intrepid......ahhhh.

Anyway, there's my wish-list. One guy in Italy roughed out a CF car that looks awesome, 1/27th scale 4WD.

Doc
I've seen that 4x4 chassis ... great work, but can you imagine the weight, cost and work for this project? I want to make something affordeble that people can buy. I would only want to make a chassis, with some accessories but in such a way that you can still decide yourself what aftermarket options you want to use.

Bodywise ... whatever exists on the market and fits the chassis can be mounted.

Come on guys, give me a bit more support on the voting ... with 3 vots, I don't know what to think!

EMU
2005.11.14, 11:52 AM
dude, mustang probe, and chevy intrepid? do you know anything about real cars? not to be mean, but obviously not, Mustang and Probe are 2 totally different cars, and the Intrepid is made by Dodge, NOT Chevy ;)
Mustang Probe:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Daytona-1987-02-01-007.jpg
Chevrolet Intrepid:
http://duff_44.tripod.com/PLM2001/plm2001-026.JPG
Before attacking somebody about the cars they know, you should see if you know the cars yourself.

Gulf, I would love to see the chassis come to life. I love the old style LM prototypes. And I am sure that you could addapt the chassis to use other modern 1/24 scale model bodies.

EMU
2005.11.14, 11:53 AM
Hate that there is no edit... The Intrepid in the post above wont show... heres a different one.

Intrepid: http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1992/Road_America-1992-08-09-012.jpg

HammerZ
2005.11.14, 01:37 PM
Mustang and Probe are 2 totally different cars, ;)

If I am not mistaken the Probe was suppose to be the mid 80's replacement for the Mustang. Just nobody wanted a front wheel drive Mustang, so Ford brought it out as the Probe.

EMU
2005.11.14, 01:53 PM
Ford Mustang Probe GTP - rear engine sports car (1985-1989 IMSA)
refinement of C1 by Zakspeed
second at Watkins Glen and Sears Point in 1985, won Laguna Seca in 1986
drivers: Klaus Ludwig, Doc Bundy, Lyn St. James, Scott Pruett, Pete Halsmer, Ari Luyendyk, Tom Gloy, Chip Robinson.

Some more information about the Mustang Probe GTP:
http://www.performanceprobe.com/index2.php?redirect=http://www.performanceprobe.com/gallery/index.php

gulfclk
2005.11.14, 01:56 PM
Mustang Probe:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1987/Daytona-1987-02-01-007.jpg
Chevrolet Intrepid:
http://duff_44.tripod.com/PLM2001/plm2001-026.JPG
Before attacking somebody about the cars they know, you should see if you know the cars yourself.

Gulf, I would love to see the chassis come to life. I love the old style LM prototypes. And I am sure that you could addapt the chassis to use other modern 1/24 scale model bodies.

Don't worry ... it came alive on the drawing table today and I'm 99% sure now it will be the RM setup. We spoke to some mini-Z Cup drivers here and theywant RM.

Prototype bodies made by 'Truescale models' will fit, but Parma is a possibility as well. It will come alive ... just wanted to know if somebody else would be interested to buy it. It will be better than a Pro-Z (no attack on that chassis, it was my first non Kyosho chassis I bought on 1/27th scale and I still prefer it to anything else ... Pro-Z did a great job) but I just want to take the challenge of putting all the batts in the middle and dropping the CG even more.

I'll keep you posted guys. I have some parts to machine which will be hard, but not impossible, so as soon as there is one ready ...

EMU
2005.11.14, 02:03 PM
Gulf, do you have a target price you are looking to sell them at? Or will that have to wait until they are readily available.

gulfclk
2005.11.14, 03:53 PM
Gulf, do you have a target price you are looking to sell them at? Or will that have to wait until they are readily available.
Well, of course, the final price will have to wait, but I don't want them to be more than 100USD.

After all, the kit would include a chassis, front suspension mounts, servo mounts, special battery clip which will be the T-bar support and friction damper stand at the same time. Body, front bumper and nuts and srews will be included as well.

You would still need to get the following 'special' parts yourself ...

- RM motormount (90mm)
- MR-02 MM T-bat
- friciton damper
- knuckles, springs, ...
- electronics

I think that keeping the price of the chassis low is necessary. I'm a bit worried by the machine costs for the alu parts, but in a couple of weeks, I have a 3 week brake, so that will be plenty of time to go and look for people who could produce stuff for me.
The chassis will be made inhouse as well as the bumper and small bits.

gulfclk
2005.11.28, 01:46 PM
I made the front C-hubs this weekend ... they charge me 150 USD to make the first 2 samples. That's way too much.
Production costs are getting down as well, but still on the high side.

The chassis will be 98mm and with RM setup. Friction damper with optionally the possibility to mount the Kyosho (or other) rear damper.

The first chassis will be made on thursday as well as the H-plate holder and the battery mount. I will make the first samples in PC ... way cheaper than CF. I think everything will be ready for sale in about 6 to 8 weeks ... need to find some sponsors or try to sell some before delivey!

I'll keep you posted guys!

gulfclk
2005.12.05, 09:30 AM
The first 2 chassis have been machined this weekend ... looks nice. This one is made in PC ... not stiff enough to drive, but good to check the fitting and rework if necessary.

The other chassis I made has been mounted with the batt's in position, the motor mount built in and the servo in place. Wicked! I'm sure this thing will fly!

T Man
2005.12.05, 12:24 PM
Looks good!

EMU
2005.12.05, 12:45 PM
Since you are using the 90mm RM mount with an MM t-plate, you could run a 114mm wheelbase simply by changing the motorpod to an MM pod with an RM t-plate... Looks nice ;)

RM T-plate, 4mm longer than MM
MM motormount, 12mm longer than 94mm RM, 8mm longer than 94mm RM

Damper setup may be slightly different, depending on what style damper mount you plan on using. For a 114mm damper on an MR02, with an MM pod... You can use a 102mm Atomic disc damper plate, with a custom modified RM damper connector (to mount on the 2 screws on the motormount). I plan to do this with my 1/24 MR02 which you can see a picture of http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/uploads/post-7903-1133501017.jpghere (http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/uploads/post-7903-1133501017.jpg)

InZane
2005.12.05, 01:02 PM
Very interesting!
What cells are you going to use - looks like 2/3AA.

Betta is by the way making a nice Lexan Chevy Intrepid - it should be perfect (98mm wheelbase, 80mm wide)

EMU
2005.12.05, 01:09 PM
I hate the fact that I cannot edit my posts.... In my post above I made an error, it is supposed to read, 12mm longer than 90mm RM and 8mm longer than 94mm RM.

With all of the available motormounts and the two different length t-plates these days, you can get away with only having one mount for the T-plate ;)

Your chassis will have the mounting position 12mm longer than the longest position on the MR02...

Correct me if I am wrong, for this chassis, some of the available configurations would be:

102mm wheelbase (great for 4" slot bodies):
MM t-plate / 94RM mount
RM t-plate / 90RM mount

106mm wheelbase:
MM t-plate / 94MM mount
RM t-plate / 94RM mount

110mm wheelbase:
RM t-plate / 94MM mount
MM t-plate / 98MM mount

114mm wheelbase (good for 4.5" slot bodies):
RM t-plate / 98MM mount

Damper setups will be different for each t-plate size and motormount style (RM or MM). The easiest way would be to have a few damper mount postions on the main chassis 4mm apart.

gulfclk
2005.12.05, 02:04 PM
hi EMU,

You're right about the possibilities ... that's why I picked this setup. I started this project for about 2 months ago, and I've redesigned the car for about 10 times, untill I came up with this setup.
This chassis has been completely designed by computer ... I hope it does pay of.

I normally don't like the Atomic quality, but I only took the 90mm motormount (what can go wrong with that) and the disc damper (plenty of possibilities to make this work). The additional upper damper is the Kyosho one as you can see.

That's it for now ... there are some other interesting details but I'll show you when the first rolling chassis is ready.

Thanks Insane for the compliment. I hope you can see the benefits of the setup. Less roll, so more stable. The fact that the motor is in the back is not a real problem I think. The layout of the batts is preventing the car from lifting in the front when cornering 'on throttle' (I hope at least) and .... well, the rest, I leave up to you guys.

Please give me some comments. You're input is always welcome. I know chassis building is something personal, but ...

Oh yeah ... pics. You can find them on our website ... which is online for just one year today! Don't know it yet? Click here. (http://www.mini-z.be)

ruf
2005.12.05, 02:08 PM
Great looking bodies! Where can I get those slot bodies from EMU and InZane? I'll have some proto pix of my latest up this weekend hopefully.

InZane
2005.12.05, 04:11 PM
Betta bodies are made in England so I would guess they can be hard to get in the USA.
You can order them from AB Slotsport (http://www.abslotsport.biz/page55.html).

JK Products (http://www.jkproducts.com/products.asp?cat=19&pg=6) are producing some very beatiful bodies & decals like the Saleen.

gulfclk
2005.12.06, 12:36 AM
one of the pictures on the website ...

bda52
2005.12.06, 01:08 AM
Ford Mustang Probe GTP - rear engine sports car (1985-1989 IMSA)
refinement of C1 by Zakspeed
second at Watkins Glen and Sears Point in 1985, won Laguna Seca in 1986
drivers: Klaus Ludwig, Doc Bundy, Lyn St. James, Scott Pruett, Pete Halsmer, Ari Luyendyk, Tom Gloy, Chip Robinson.

Some more information about the Mustang Probe GTP:
http://www.performanceprobe.com/index2.php?redirect=http://www.performanceprobe.com/gallery/index.php


Wasn't this also the car that Lynn St. James flipped in the start/finish stretch, just at the end of pit road, at Riverside back in 1986?

gulfclk
2005.12.12, 01:31 PM
the body is getting on. I redesigned the chassis slightly this weekend. Stiffer in the front and easier to setup.

Next chassis will be in CF and tested on track ...

I'm thinking about replacing the yellow Kyosho damper with a simple tube friction damper. This will give a bit more clearance to the body ... but perhaps the disc friction damper will be enough.

madf1man
2005.12.12, 02:11 PM
Good lookin stuff guys keep it up.Can,t wait till this stuff gets mainstream. Anytime ya need a test driver I,m your man! We run a huge RCP track in Houston that would love that chassis on it :D

machine
2005.12.12, 03:19 PM
Wow that looks really well though out. With the electronics on the sides, are you going to be having some foam to help protect it from side impacts? I worry about that as lexan will bend on an impact.

Also looking at your front end design, ever think about using the new Iwaver steering setup? It looks similiar to what you have done already but mass produced cheaply. The front mounts, kingpins, knuckles and tie rod all look like they may work with alittle modifications.

Just a thought.

Oh and i agree with EMU, not having an edit is brutal.

ruf
2005.12.12, 03:40 PM
I ordered those parts a couple of weeks ago and I'm using them as the basis for my new chassis. I plan on selling the carbon plates alone with a "shopping list" of parts that you would need to buy to complete the chassis kit. That should keep costs down and stocking issues for me at a minimum.

The iWaver stuff is soso though. The holes in the knuckles are drilled at an angle. I need to get the whole prototype together so that I can get a better idea of whether or not they'll work, but I've been busy with the new inventory and the MA010 testing. It never stops. :p

Mazda787b
2005.12.12, 06:47 PM
Ya know, I really liek this chassis design, but the fact that it utilizes 2/3A cells do not seem like an ideal solution to me. The fact is that they weigh more than an AAA cell. What about 2 Li-ion 4/5AA cells?

gulfclk
2005.12.13, 12:24 AM
The weight of the cells is indeed more significant then other models but ... the current drain is huge. Don't forget this car is meant to be driven with normal electronics, so ... I think it won't be a problem looking at the AV03.

The front Iwaver suspension ... mmmm, just what I need. Where can I get that? In Europe, the Iwaver scene is rather small for hopups I think. Never seen those parts, so where can I get them?

There will be a side protection ... for sure. But, the electronics meant to go with the CT03 are sooooo small, they will have 6 or 7mm clearance from the border ...

gulfclk
2005.12.13, 06:44 AM
Wow that looks really well though out. With the electronics on the sides, are you going to be having some foam to help protect it from side impacts? I worry about that as lexan will bend on an impact.

Also looking at your front end design, ever think about using the new Iwaver steering setup? It looks similiar to what you have done already but mass produced cheaply. The front mounts, kingpins, knuckles and tie rod all look like they may work with alittle modifications.

Just a thought.

Oh and i agree with EMU, not having an edit is brutal.

Found them at Tower ... but a place in Europe who has them would be nice as well. Shipping costs are huge ... but who said this hobby would be cheap?

machine
2005.12.13, 09:49 AM
Yea shipping to any europe country is brutal, and slow. But at least you may have a cheap decently made parts source!!! That should cut some cost on the manufacturing side of things!

:)

akura2
2005.12.13, 01:38 PM
Found them at Tower ... but a place in Europe who has them would be nice as well. Shipping costs are huge ... but who said this hobby would be cheap?

this is off topic.... what chassis is that under that Gulf BMW X5 on your site (the pearl white and light blue one)?
and what wheels are those on the rear of Tom's 993 GT1?


Back on topic...

that's a really cool chassis... and I like the fact that you can use 2/3A cells... they give way more amperage for more punch

HaCo
2005.12.13, 03:09 PM
gulfclk,

rc-modelshop.be has a lot of IW parts, and will have tuning for the new IW when they are avail @ t_o_y_e_a_s_t (the shop is not so far from Hasselt ;-) )... You could also choose for awaregames.com , which in fact is belgian too, but they don't have the parts in stock either...

www.battletank.de has the parts allready, I have my new 02 from there.

When will we see you guys from Hasselt on our new RCP track? :-)

HaCo :D

HaCo
2005.12.13, 03:10 PM
Where is that edit button?

gulfclk,

If you would order on battletank, let me know, maybe (if it's ok for you) we can share shipping cost from germany, which most of the times is quite expensive, even for small parts...

ruf
2005.12.13, 03:48 PM
Let me know guys. I might be able to help you out.

gulfclk
2005.12.14, 02:19 AM
this is off topic.... what chassis is that under that Gulf BMW X5 on your site (the pearl white and light blue one)?
and what wheels are those on the rear of Tom's 993 GT1?


Back on topic...

that's a really cool chassis... and I like the fact that you can use 2/3A cells... they give way more amperage for more punch

The chassis is an old MR-01 ... which ran great with this body. I was even quicker than most (not all) MR-01 drivers. The car balance was great ... and when flipping over, it always came back to its wheels.

The rear rims on the 993 GT1 are home made. Alu outer rings on plastic rims. If you want, I will sell that body, with wheels and everything.

gulfclk
2005.12.14, 02:23 AM
gulfclk,

rc-modelshop.be has a lot of IW parts, and will have tuning for the new IW when they are avail @ t_o_y_e_a_s_t (the shop is not so far from Hasselt ;-) )... You could also choose for awaregames.com , which in fact is belgian too, but they don't have the parts in stock either...

www.battletank.de has the parts allready, I have my new 02 from there.

When will we see you guys from Hasselt on our new RCP track? :-)

HaCo :D

Hey Hanu,

I checked ******* but they did not have them yet, so I ordered them from tower. For the first prototype, cost is not an issue, but for the production chassis, price will have to be as low as possible.
I'll try the other shops.

Your new RCP track ... we will come over in the coming weeks. We started our own new track (15 x 6 meter) which will be finished this weekend. When that's done, we will come and burn some rubber on your new RCP. Let's have fun!

We'll keep in touch!

blyfuss
2005.12.14, 05:12 AM
@ gulfclk

whats that for a body?
http://minizracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18507

where can i buy / order this?

i search for a body with a wheelbase of 98mm , front-width of 73mm and back-width of 78mm.

the body looks great.

greets from germany
bly

InZane
2005.12.14, 06:33 AM
It's a Porsche 917-30 from Truescale Products - Web Link (http://truescaleproducts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=37)

You can order this and many more bodies from GB Slotracing in Germany - Web Link (http://www.gb-slotracing.de/webshop/catalog/index.php)

InZane
2005.12.14, 06:42 AM
White Point from Germany is also worth a visit - Web Link (http://www.white-point.de/)

blyfuss
2005.12.14, 08:10 AM
thx inzane

have you the wheelbase and width of the body´s?

bly

ruf
2005.12.14, 08:44 AM
so I ordered them from tower.How bad was the shipping? If you need more I might be able to help you out with shipping personally. Sometimes companies really jack up the international shipping prices.

gulfclk
2005.12.14, 10:01 AM
How bad was the shipping? If you need more I might be able to help you out with shipping personally. Sometimes companies really jack up the international shipping prices.

Shipping was 35USD ... UPS Express. I know they charge too much ... but I really needed this part ASAP. So if you can help me out for next time ... YES PLEASE!

gulfclk
2005.12.14, 10:02 AM
thx inzane

have you the wheelbase and width of the body´s?

bly

Porsche 917: Wheelbase 98mm, front track 75mm, rear 80 mm
Porsche 917/30: Wheelbase 98mm, Front and rear track 80mm

gulfclk
2005.12.16, 12:21 AM
I received my package from Tower yesterday. What a ripoff.

35 USD shipping costs for UPS Express. Expensive, OK, but when you open the package, it's an A4 enveloppe stuffed with catalogues, ads, ..., so in fact, around 10USD is shipping for the parts and 25 USD is shipping of advertissement I don't need and don't want!

Then, after having paid everything by credit card, I still have to pay 25 USD COD...

Never ever again! Tower ... no thanks!

gulfclk
2005.12.27, 07:29 AM
as you can see here (http://www.mini-z.be) , some nice details like super low servo have been integrated. Of course the tires will be foam once. These zre only for reference.

HaCo
2005.12.27, 03:21 PM
gulfclk, een prachtige machine! (a beautifull car in dutch :D), but why do you use a standard diff, do you have something special with those std diffs?

gulfclk
2005.12.28, 02:48 AM
This picture shows how low everything is ... note the height of the steering servo ...

builthatch
2005.12.29, 08:45 PM
This picture shows how low everything is ... note the height of the steering servo ...

gulfclk, what chassis is that under the 993 gt car? what kind of tamiya kit did that car come from? i really would love a 993 gt2 body for my mr-02, but...i would settle for the lm car.

gulfclk
2005.12.31, 09:19 AM
gulfclk, what chassis is that under the 993 gt car? what kind of tamiya kit did that car come from? i really would love a 993 gt2 body for my mr-02, but...i would settle for the lm car.

The chassis I used under this car was the MR-01 ... with MM set-up. I used tis because I did not have and MR-02 at that time.

I made special alu rims for this body. The kit is the 993 GT-One Tamiya kit. This body has 4 bright white leds and 2 red ones in the back.

For your info ... I'm willing to sell this body as I never drive it.

BigVxxx
2005.12.31, 11:19 PM
The first 2 chassis have been machined this weekend ... looks nice. This one is made in PC ... not stiff enough to drive, but good to check the fitting and rework if necessary.

The other chassis I made has been mounted with the batt's in position, the motor mount built in and the servo in place. Wicked! I'm sure this thing will fly!

Cool stuff, I'm half asleep skimming posts. For the MM, consider also slotting six battery slots, three each side, electronics in tthe middle. Saddling the batteries can help provide tracrion during cornering and the extra slot can be used to adjust weight forward which can help tune braking,reduce rear traction. Good Luck and happy New Year

TuNeR1989
2006.01.01, 05:58 PM
Very cool looking chassis indeed, keep it up. :)

gulfclk
2006.01.05, 05:36 PM
Testing started yesterday ... and it looks like the central battry placement pays off big time.

The RM setup is absolutely not a problem ... the car has huge steering due to a better weight distribution (47% front, 53% rear) and is very stable. Almost no roll (as we expected) and good 'on throttle' caracteristics.

I hope to post a video and more info after the weekend.

PaulBoth
2006.01.06, 06:56 AM
If possible, for comparisson's sake, try to get the driver to race an equally prepped MR02. And post the difference in times/laps... Just to see how much better your new design is...

Looks great by the way.

PB

gulfclk
2006.01.06, 12:56 PM
We are doing a back-to-back test this sunday, so that will give us the real info.

Meanwhile ... here's the chassis that goes under the 917/30 body. The miniature ESC is only 3 grams heavy.

PaulBoth
2006.01.06, 01:23 PM
I like the servo saver... Simple but effective, another good idea. I had a chassis designed up that I never bothered with (similar to your's actually, but not as thought out, and it still required some thought. Lots of it actually.) It's great to see someone design something and then carry through with it to reality, especially when it comes out as well as your's has.

What ESC is that out of curiousity? I was going to use was an IPDRacing R20. Which was about 8 grams without wires... But wow, 3 grams...

PB

bobbyz
2006.01.06, 01:33 PM
that looks like a great design. what brand of esc are you using? i am presently working on a similar project using some iwaver parts from tower, but haven't finalized my electronics setup. i'd like to use robotronics micro esc, but it's very hard to find in the states. hope testing goes well.

gulfclk
2006.01.06, 05:26 PM
The ESC is something we are currently working on with another company. They have a basic product, but it needs to be modified for our purposes. Appart from changing wire lenghts, ..., we also need more brake power, because this ESC is normally for 300 motors. For the moment, I'm driving a standard rotor with neo's, which is braking just enough, but we need more braking power.

The ESC can also be programmed through PC. You can program the '0' point as well as the amount of throttle, brake and reverse. So once it's setup properly, you don't need to connect anymore.

It's about 120 USD with the software, program interface, ... so not cheap, but surely perfect!

As soon as all the details are OK, you can buy them through us.

gulfclk
2006.01.08, 01:06 PM
So, today we did the comparison ...

MR-02 RM & MM: Atomic dishwheels with foam tires (same will be used on the CT-03), Atomic friction damper with side springs, PN Racing Speedy, 4562 single FET upgrade, 2 degree knuckles, 1 degree toe-in, 9 teeth spur

CT-03 : same wheels as on MR-02, Atomic friction damper with F1 spring damper (Kyosho), same motor as on MR-02, 1 degree knuckles, 0 degree toe-in, 9 teeth spur

Best laptime MR-02 MM: 12.09
MR-02 RM: 12.19
CT-03 (RM): 11.78

The track we race on is not very technical. No chicanes, long straight (15 metres) and 3 very short turns.
It was clear the CT-03 was more stable in the straight line and on corner entrance. On power corner exit was a bit less on the CT-03 and it had the feeling as if there was a bit of oversteer. The suspension setting was too stiff however and we'll try next week with softer setup in the back.

There were no major problems with the car. After 40 laps of comparison with the MR-02, we used the Atomic T2 ... this would be the ultimate test.
The tires used were the Z-speed moosegummies in the back and another type of foam in the front (?) with Corally traction compound on the rear tires.
Even with those high speeds, the car was very stable. We had to use a bigger spoiler in the back to get the good downforce (not because of the weight ... the spoiler only weights 0,3 grams).
During topspeed, we tried to steer left-right-left-right and the car reacted very neutral to this. No spinning or flipping over.

There is still some work to be done and some testing on the front suspension, but we feel we have a very good package all together.

Next week, we will hopefully be testing the car on RCP tracks. On sunday, we'll built a new, more technical track, to get a good impression of the cornering capability of the chassis.

Video coverage was made ... a short commercial will follow shortly.

TO BE CONTINUED ....

HaCo
2006.01.09, 12:54 PM
Sounds very cool to me :-)

Did you use the same body on the three setups? It's a pitty your chassis doesn't accept AutoScale body's...

Keep it up, hope to see you on Friday! :D :D

gulfclk
2006.01.19, 01:18 AM
I'm thinking about, before releasing the first batch of chassis, entering one chassis in a competition.

I would be looking for a driver who's having a lot of experience running in an open class championship.

I would offer, for free of course, one complete chassis with all the parts like in a sold kit. The only thing you would need to get yourself is the motormount (according to the wheelbase you would like to run), the H-plate, knuckles, springs, ..., so nothing fancy.

Kit will inlcude chassis, front suspension, rear H-plate holder, screws, ....

Are there any champions out there who are willing to test the car in at least 3 major races? Sent me pics of your former car and race results. Only one kit available ...

gulfclk
2006.01.23, 12:13 AM
After the lack of intrest in this project, I decided this weekend to stop the development. I will continue to develop the chassis for my own use (and some members of our club), but it will not be commercialised as nobody seems to be intrested ... even if there's a whole range of possibilities with the wheelbases, motor setups, ... and even if, in all other major categories, central placement of batteries is a race proven concept (1/10th onroad and offroad, 1/18th, ...)

The fact that, for the moment, other people are throwing chassis on the market is perhaps the reason ... or should I claim this chassis is the best when there's no competition?

I will start at this time the development of the CT-04 as well ... which will be a MM setup, 98 or 100mm wheelbase and with batteries placed centraly ... but for our own use as well.

Hope you guys understand!

T Man
2006.01.23, 11:58 AM
Dang man. If I were close to a track and had the time, I would definitely test it for you. I'm sorry to hear that you're going to stop development; I was actually pretty interested, although I didn't express it. It's kinda wierd that it's winter time and Mini-Zs aren't really picking up in popularity like they usually do.

Good luck though, I'd still like to see a finished version. I'd most likely get one.

xemet
2006.01.23, 01:10 PM
Gulfclk, that is a grat job! Unfortunately production costs are always high so you cannot risks a lot of money if you're not sure of selling the product.

I think that this chassis would be perfect to fit a LyPo cell in the center instead of the 4 NIMh, this means huge current drain and very low weight and of course 7,4 Volt instead of 4,8...You should definitively try it.

Great job anyway, my compliments!

Bye

gulfclk
2006.01.24, 12:28 AM
Gulfclk, that is a grat job! Unfortunately production costs are always high so you cannot risks a lot of money if you're not sure of selling the product.

I think that this chassis would be perfect to fit a LyPo cell in the center instead of the 4 NIMh, this means huge current drain and very low weight and of course 7,4 Volt instead of 4,8...You should definitively try it.

Great job anyway, my compliments!

Bye

Well Xemet, production costs would not be that high. I think I could sell the chassis for about 140 Euro's ... all the bits inlcuded. Compared to the AV03 (€180) and the Inzane Racing (€159), it would be cheaper, but no one seems to be interested.
The concept should be better by far than the other chassis (central batts, very low CG, servo lowered in the chassis, friction damper in the back, ...) and the weight, for my proto at least, is lower than a normal mini-Z.

But after all, it seems this does not matter. Perhaps I should have told people it has won races, was quicker than anything else, ...

Anyway, for those interested, drop me a mail or reply on the forum here and we'll see. I might change my mind!

xemet
2006.01.24, 03:09 AM
Well, if the production costs are not so high, you could try to make a small serie of 5 cars and try to sell them so that you can really understand if there is interest or not. Of course you should try to advertise it better, first you should make more pictures showing all details, you should make a page in your website (like the one for the miniz LM) showing how you've designed the car, with pictures etc. (I know that this page is in your plan because there is a "underconstruction logo"...).
Second you should post messages in all european forum in order to inform people that your car is ready to be sold (I've address of almost all mini-rc forum in the world...if you need). I've seen that you have a small article in the minizz.com homepage, but there is only a picture and a link, you should complete the chassis, make a video and send to the minizz.com webmaster all informations i order to write an article only for your car.

I'm pretty sure that 90% of the people that could be interested in this chassis does not know it.

Another problem is the kyosho AWD, with that car all people now think that a good car MUST be AWD...that's wrong but you can't explain it because they will never agree.

Good luck!

gulfclk
2006.01.25, 05:50 AM
Well, if the production costs are not so high, you could try to make a small serie of 5 cars and try to sell them so that you can really understand if there is interest or not. Of course you should try to advertise it better, first you should make more pictures showing all details, you should make a page in your website (like the one for the miniz LM) showing how you've designed the car, with pictures etc. (I know that this page is in your plan because there is a "underconstruction logo"...).
Second you should post messages in all european forum in order to inform people that your car is ready to be sold (I've address of almost all mini-rc forum in the world...if you need). I've seen that you have a small article in the minizz.com homepage, but there is only a picture and a link, you should complete the chassis, make a video and send to the minizz.com webmaster all informations i order to write an article only for your car.

I'm pretty sure that 90% of the people that could be interested in this chassis does not know it.

Another problem is the kyosho AWD, with that car all people now think that a good car MUST be AWD...that's wrong but you can't explain it because they will never agree.

Good luck!


Hi Xemet,

yes, sent me the list of forums please.

Thanks a lot,

Tom

PaulBoth
2006.01.25, 07:09 AM
I know how it feels to have designed something, and then had trouble bringing it to the people who want it. In the past I've designed a set of LCG TVP's for the Savage... sold over 80 sets, only to have our ideas copied and then made cheaper because of higher volume production.

If I can offer anything in terms of advice, don't put your own money upfront. Also be very clear with what people will get, so like Xemet said, take lots of pictures and be very detailed in your descriptions. Then get those that are interested to leave you a deposit, and that when you hit the minimum run for production costs, you go ahead with the order. But put a time limit on the run, say in the next two weeks, you need at least 5 pre-orders... or you return everyone's deposit type of idea. It worked out pretty well for me during my mini projects...

Best of luck,
PB

xemet
2006.01.25, 08:38 AM
gulfclk, I've sent the list to you yesterday. Have you received it?

bye

gulfclk
2006.01.25, 10:26 AM
gulfclk, I've sent the list to you yesterday. Have you received it?

bye
No, sorry

I'll drop you a mail with other mail addresses ...

Thanks man,

TC

xemet
2006.01.25, 05:14 PM
sent again, to all your addresses, I hope you will get it now!

Let me know.

bye

gulfclk
2006.01.26, 12:31 AM
sent again, to all your addresses, I hope you will get it now!

Let me know.

bye
yes, received it. Thanks a lot Xemet,

Tom

Sick Srt-4
2006.01.28, 05:03 PM
After the lack of intrest in this project, I decided this weekend to stop the development. I will continue to develop the chassis for my own use (and some members of our club), but it will not be commercialised as nobody seems to be intrested ... even if there's a whole range of possibilities with the wheelbases, motor setups, ... and even if, in all other major categories, central placement of batteries is a race proven concept (1/10th onroad and offroad, 1/18th, ...)
Hope you guys understand!

Any chance I could send you a body to custom make a chassis and mounts for, and still use mini-z parts on ?

ie: board, servo, motor.....

gulfclk
2006.01.29, 12:26 PM
Any chance I could send you a body to custom make a chassis and mounts for, and still use mini-z parts on ?

ie: board, servo, motor.....

Developing a chassis is not something that is done in one night. Making it is another story.

I really would like to help you but I think that for orignal Kyosho bodies, there are other chassis on the market.

If you use lexan ... perhaps I might release this chassis in a limited quantity. Drop me a mail if you're interested.

Cheers,

Tom

Sick Srt-4
2006.01.29, 03:36 PM
Developing a chassis is not something that is done in one night. Making it is another story.

I really would like to help you but I think that for orignal Kyosho bodies, there are other chassis on the market.

If you use lexan ... perhaps I might release this chassis in a limited quantity. Drop me a mail if you're interested.

Cheers,

Tom

See that is my problem. I have a 1:24 scale body that is molded already. the problem being that NO ONE offers a 1:24 chassis. I've used my spare MINI-Z frame to base the wheelbase off of, and made a rear H plate for the body. But before I decide on modifying the mini-z chassis for permanent use and cutting up the body for mounting points... I'd like to weigh my options.

Sick Srt-4
2006.01.29, 03:37 PM
Sorry to double post, but saw no edit button.. Indeed it is a molded lexan body.

bda52
2006.01.29, 04:29 PM
Sorry to double post, but saw no edit button.. Indeed it is a molded lexan body.

Have you considered the CP2 kit? The kit runs $45 with cup body or $35 w/o it.

Here it is next to a 1/24 Action diecast
CAR (http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/showphoto.php?photo=1986&size=big&cat=642&page=1)

You could always modify the bumper system to fit your lexan body to it. Seems like a cheaper and simpler solution to what you are looking for rather than investing a few hundred dollars into a full chassis to mount a lexan body.

bda52
2006.01.29, 04:37 PM
gulfclk, sorry to post that in your thread, it just seems like a better idea for what Sick Srt-4 is looking for. (edit disappeared before I could go back and add that line)

Sick Srt-4
2006.01.29, 04:47 PM
Have you considered the CP2 kit? The kit runs $45 with cup body or $35 w/o it.

Here it is next to a 1/24 Action diecast
CAR (http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/showphoto.php?photo=1986&size=big&cat=642&page=1)

You could always modify the bumper system to fit your lexan body to it. Seems like a cheaper and simpler solution to what you are looking for rather than investing a few hundred dollars into a full chassis to mount a lexan body.

See I'm ok with spending the cash to get a 1:24 scale chassis. I didn't know about the CP2 kit. Where can i find this kit online ?

bda52
2006.01.29, 04:50 PM
See I'm ok with spending the cash to get a 1:24 scale chassis. I didn't know about the CP2 kit. Where can i find this kit online ?

www.mininascar.com

The kit will fit both the MR-02 and the MR-015. For the 015 you would need to cut down the the side bumpers a little bit to get to the battery clip. For the 02, no mods are needed at all.

EMU
2006.01.29, 04:57 PM
You can see some comparison pics here: http://www2.mini-zracer.com/gallery/album757 mounted with a lexan 1/24 scale slot car body. The primary wheelbase for the kit is 114mm, although with slight modification you can set it up with different wheelbases.

Sick Srt-4
2006.01.29, 05:01 PM
www.mininascar.com

The kit will fit both the MR-02 and the MR-015. For the 015 you would need to cut down the the side bumpers a little bit to get to the battery clip. For the 02, no mods are needed at all.

Thanks for your time gulfclk. Sorry to bug ya, but I went with the mininascar kit... Ya can't beat a $40 carbon fiber conversion.....

On my MR-015 I'll have a bit of work to do, to get it where it needs to be.. but it won't be too bad at all.

Thanks bda52!!!!

gulfclk
2006.02.05, 03:56 PM
I just updated my website with a description on the design of the CT-03 and the ideas's behind it.

Just go to www.mini-z.be and click the CT-03 button in the top. Feel free to post your comments and findings ...

HaCo
2006.02.06, 01:20 PM
I've got my hands on this chassis and it is a really really nice piece of design. It is THE pan car setup for small cars and it is finnished very well!

Keep it up gulfclk!

InZane
2006.02.07, 01:16 AM
I really like the CT-03 design - it looks very promising. :D
Please keep us informed about the progress of the project!

mauromj
2007.03.11, 08:29 PM
I like the idea of a 2 by 2 saddle pack. Like gp1100 and ib1400.