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View Full Version : FIRELAP 4.0 or IWAVER 04?


Jonny
2006.02.16, 09:21 AM
Hi to all,

I haven't posted before but have referred to the forums many times for advice, so first of all thanks to everybody's technical help!

I have a fairly easy question: I'd appreciate anybody's views on whether to purchase a Firelap 4.0 for 40.00 UK or an new type IWaver 04 (with the six shocks and large bumper) for 54.95 UK?

Many thanks, Jonny.

Sasquatch
2006.02.16, 07:20 PM
The original 04, the one with the solid axles are great for 2WD crawling. The new Firelap's have limited articulation and travel, but have independent front suspension, which is great for monster truck racing and handling. Also 2WD.

Jonny
2006.02.17, 09:31 AM
Hi - Thanks Sasquatch,

So, theres a difference in chassis between the old 04 and the Firelap 4.0 (below)? I thought that these two were the same, with the Firelap having a stiffer shell and uprated FET's?

(The missing url is supposed to be the 'Bay .co .uk?)

Old IWAVER 04 (http://cgi.*******o.uk/IWAVER-04-Monster-Truck-NEW-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ6034566461QQcategoryZ34063QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

Firelap 4.0 (http://cgi.*******o.uk/NEW-FIRELAP-4-0-MINI-MONSTER-RC-TRUCK-RTR-KYOSHO_W0QQitemZ6035415802QQcategoryZ118229QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I'm a little confused now, also what exactly is the difference in axles and do you have any detailed pics of the differences at all for comparision of the two?

Do you also know if I can upgrade the Firelap 4.0 with GPM shocks and Mounts made for the Mini Monster still?

Sorry about all the questions but I just haven't been able to find a thread on here which answers them.

Thanks again, Jonny.

Sasquatch
2006.02.17, 03:09 PM
This is the old Iwaver 04 (http://www.dino.se/0_img/iwaver04.gif). Another shot showing the front axle (http://www.cosedalmondo.com/immagini/Modellismo/Iwaver04_Firelap04_Chassis_2.jpg)

I couldn't find any good photos of the Firelap, but there is a difference. At my LHS the owner has a Firelap 4.0 and it has a different suspension and axle setup, but from the photos I have searched for, show no difference, really confusing. But I know for sure that there is a difference between the two.

The difference in axles is in the Iwaver 04 has solid axles, and the Firelap has independent front suspension.

EnTg888
2006.02.17, 05:34 PM
I might be completely off the ball here, but I don't think there is a difference between the old iwaver and the new firelap. The new Iwaver 04 has independent front suspension, a separate servo, and a strange four shock rear suspension, but the old Iwaver 04 and the Firelap 04 are both (almost exact) clones of the mini-z monster. Only difference is the bodies-Firelap uses the mini-z style plastic body while the OLD iwaver uses the lexan bodies.

Jonny
2006.02.17, 06:35 PM
Hi Guys, thanks for your input. Sasquatch, that's a strange one if you've seen a different setup firsthand but I agree with you all pictures of the chassis seem to suggest a near identical setup to the MZM, as EnTg888 suggests is the case aswell.

I'm still dubious about the new 04 and think I'd rather stick to the 'normal' setup, so that I can upgrade parts from the MZM easier.

If anyone else has either trucks and more info on how they are to own, I'd still appreciate it.

Jonny

Jonny
2006.02.19, 06:39 AM
I know we all rate Kyosho's quality but I just wondered if anybody had an idea if the Mini Z Monster is really worth twice the price of a Firelap 4.0? I'm only concerned about the electronics on the Firelap causing problems. It's for a birthday gift in two weeks time so I'd gratefully appreciate any opinions, especially from owners of the Firelap.

Thanks, Jonny.

SteveR1960
2006.02.19, 11:53 PM
I know we all rate Kyosho's quality but I just wondered if anybody had an idea if the Mini Z Monster is really worth twice the price of a Firelap 4.0? I'm only concerned about the electronics on the Firelap causing problems. It's for a birthday gift in two weeks time so I'd gratefully appreciate any opinions, especially from owners of the Firelap.

Thanks, Jonny.


Jonny - if you wait about 10 days I will tell you. I have three MZMs and two Firelap 4.0 chassis sets coming. The MZMs stock have been breaking like crazy on my little jumping course. One knuckle, one front shock mount, one set of pot wires and one body that won't stay on. Three trucks, broken something on each. Only had them since XMAS. One of them only a couple of days. I have been playing only on soft foam mats with pipe insulation covered PVC barriers. The jumps I have been using are either 7" high or 12' high. All with landing ramps.

So why did I order the Firelaps? I am resigned to $60 minimum in alloy upgrades to the MZMs. I want to know if much cheaper Firelaps perform the same and are the better buy after upgrading. My planned upgrades are:

oil shocks
shielded bearings
front/rear alloy shock mounts
front alloy knuckles
foam tire inserts

Will stay plastic elsewhere as I don't want to weight them down too much and have to upgrade motors. I hear with motor upgrades a stall can equal FET burnout and my son won't be that careful.

Jonny
2006.02.20, 03:21 AM
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your input. It's a shame about the breakages, I have read that some alloy upgrades are needed for these little trucks - albeit your track isn't (or shouldn't be!) too punishing for them.

What you are doing wth the Firelap's is exactly what I had in mind and it'd be good to hear how it goes for you.

Can I just query the 'motor stall' sentence? What does that mean exactly? : /

Thanks for your time, Jonny.

SteveR1960
2006.02.20, 07:43 AM
I think the word stall is used a little improperly - but this is how it was described to me. When the car stalls - runs into a barrier and the wheels spin - the FETs can burn out. This can take a while stock, but occurs more quickly with upgraded motors.

See the site in my signature and go to My Blog - you can see my jumps and a short video of what I do with my MZMs.

Jonny
2006.02.20, 10:21 AM
Hi again Steve,

OK, I'm understand what you mean now and wholeheartedly agree, something to keep out of your driving style!

I'll be taking a look at your pics and vids this afternoon.

Thanks again for your help, Jonny.

SteveR1960
2006.02.20, 07:48 PM
Hi again Steve,

OK, I'm understand what you mean now and wholeheartedly agree, something to keep out of your driving style!

I'll be taking a look at your pics and vids this afternoon.

Thanks again for your help, Jonny.


Well - just had the servo die on my 2 day old MZM. Opened the case so it's not a broken lead to the pot. Possibly a broken wire inside the wire insulation or lost connection at the board. Plan to send back to Kyosho or Hobbytron. BTW - the a window on the body already fell out too.

Just to recap - my first on - opened on Feb 9. has already had a broken shock mount and knuckle. My second one, also opened on Feb 9. had two broken pot wires and an unfortunate soldering accident toasted the board. My third one I described above. Can't wait for my Firelaps. No more Kyoshos for me for a while.

Jonny
2006.02.21, 05:02 AM
Well - just had the servo die on my 2 day old MZM. Opened the case so it's not a broken lead to the pot. Possibly a broken wire inside the wire insulation or lost connection at the board. Plan to send back to Kyosho or Hobbytron. BTW - the a window on the body already fell out too.

Just to recap - my first on - opened on Feb 9. has already had a broken shock mount and knuckle. My second one, also opened on Feb 9. had two broken pot wires and an unfortunate soldering accident toasted the board. My third one I described above. Can't wait for my Firelaps. No more Kyoshos for me for a while.


Jeez, you've had a bad time of it with that Monster collection! Please let me know how the Firelap 4.0's are once they arrive and the best of luck with the others on their way! You'll be a good source of info on the Firelap as you will have more than one to compare also! :)

Thanks, Jonny

machine
2006.02.21, 04:22 PM
the firelap 04's are the chassis that have the solid axles and 4 shocks, the Iwaver 04 is the one with independent front suspension and 6 shocks. TE first put out a 04 with a cheap lexan body, if your buying one of these it's the first production run. The firelaps now all come with a hard plastic body either red, yellow, black and blue. The new Iwaver 04 comes with a new hard plastic body as well, the bodies are the same as the firelaps but they have a light bar (just for looks) on the body. The Iwaver 04 also has a large bumper on the front end.

Don't forget the Firelap 04 have the 5amp fets stock, the Iwaver 04 and MZM do not.

I've not broken any thing on the iwaver 04 yet, but have gone through a few sets of upper shock mounts on the firelap (have since upgraded to alloy ones without a prob)


firelap 04 (http://iwaver.ca/images/04%20image%20rtr.jpg)

firelap chassis (http://iwaver.ca/images/04%20chassis.jpg)

iwaver 04 (http://iwaver.ca/images/Iwaver%2004%20prod%20shot%20green.jpg)

iwaver 04 chassis (http://iwaver.ca/images/Iwaver%2004%20prod%20shot%20Chassis.jpg)

Jonny
2006.02.21, 05:34 PM
Hi Machine,

Thanks for your two cents on the differences between models. So it seems that you are happy with the Firelap minus the shock mounts (which I'm expecting to change to alloy anyway). How about the electronic side and how it runs/handles?

Jonny.

SteveR1960
2006.02.21, 06:12 PM
Hi Machine,

Thanks for your two cents on the differences between models. So it seems that you are happy with the Firelap minus the shock mounts (which I'm expecting to change to alloy anyway). How about the electronic side and how it runs/handles?

Jonny.


Yeh, folks over at the AtomicMods board recommend I go with the HobbyZone Mini Mauler for $70. But Firelap RTRs are like $55 delivered, so good for now. We'll see.

Jonny
2006.02.21, 06:38 PM
Yeh, folks over at the AtomicMods board recommend I go with the HobbyZone Mini Mauler for $70. But Firelap RTRs are like $55 delivered, so good for now. We'll see.

Yeah Steve, I reckon they are great value at $55. Here in the UK they are slightly more but still good value compared to buying from overseas and some on E-Bay have sold for more.

Don't forget to let me know how they go.

Jonny.

SteveR1960
2006.02.21, 08:31 PM
oops - I madea mistake - I am getting Firel 4 chassis sets for $55 delivered - not RTRs. So RTRs run like $80 delivered, but I don't need bodies , Tx or xtals.

Jonny
2006.02.22, 05:05 AM
oops - I madea mistake - I am getting Firel 4 chassis sets for $55 delivered - not RTRs. So RTRs run like $80 delivered, but I don't need bodies , Tx or xtals.

NP, still good. The readyset over here I can get for $69 delivered, so I guess that's a great deal if people are after a RTR.

Jonny.

machine
2006.02.22, 10:51 AM
wow i was going to ask if you were looking at the chassis set at $55.

I prefer the Firelap mainly due to the compatable parts from Kyosho. I haven't gotten any option parts for my Iwaver 04 yet, somethings are the same like bearings, drive axle, alloy wheels, tires etc.

Jonny
2006.02.22, 04:55 PM
wow i was going to ask if you were looking at the chassis set at $55.

I prefer the Firelap mainly due to the compatable parts from Kyosho. I haven't gotten any option parts for my Iwaver 04 yet, somethings are the same like bearings, drive axle, alloy wheels, tires etc.

Yes, one reason that I wasn't too sure about the new 04 was that it differed from the Kyosho setup and I might have been limited for hopups. And I was trying to get a near identical copy of the MZM just for half the price.

That's always the way with clones of any product - people are always going to have interest for them - some just jump in, some weigh them up before buying and some just say plain ol' no and stick with the best.

I think that most of us here appreciate the cheaper versions even with the obvious faults here and there. Once the alloy is on, along with a nice body you've got a potential racer for the price of a standard readyset. But it's still not the real deal is it?

I think when we all have a genuine Z, the rest of our collection just takes off along with our minds and our bank balance... :D

SteveR1960
2006.02.22, 07:29 PM
Copying my post just made at AtomicMods regarding the Firelap 4.0:

So, with all the MZM issues I have been having - before I invested in lots of alloy, I decided to get a couple of Firelap 4.0 chassis sets. Roughly $100 delivered for two of these. Great fast delivery - 10 days - from Toy East.

So, originally I opted to buy MZMs over Firelaps because folks said the Firelaps were delicate in comparison to MZMs and that they nose dived on jumps. iWaver advertizes their new Firelaps as reinforced.

Out of the box they look identical to an MZM and that is where the comparison ends. Put in the batts, xtal and antenna and then they go soooooooooo slow. At least 25% slower than the MZM. On my jumping course with 6.5" and 12" jumps, the thing could not climb over the 12" jumps without stalling or tumbling over the top on the down ramp. It made it over the 6.5 " jumps but with no pop. No air. So I swapped the stock motor for an extra MZM motor I had and the speed increased and it was much more fun, but still not an MZM. I lose every race vs. an MZM by a fair amount and the 6.5" jumps have a slight pop. Can physically handle the 12" jump but with not enough zing to make it fun. So we removed the 12" jumps. Well - this gives me a reason to buy some peppier motors to play with.

As for using the Firelaps for spare parts. Get this. One rear tire is already overstretched and useless. In less than 30 minutes of use. So folks have said - buy a firelap and get the 14-in-1 upgrade set and you may have a better machine than an MZM. Maybe on paper. Yes - you need alloy knuckles, shock mounts and bearings at a minimum for your MZM, but not sure you are getting all the best upgrades with the 14-in-1 setup. BTW - you can a la carte all the good upgrades at RC Mart for no price penalty vs. Toy East.

machine
2006.02.22, 09:06 PM
i really have no idea what your last point was. How did you stretch a tire in 30 minutes?

Here's my experience with the firelap and MZM:

Both trucks my shock towers broke.
Both trucks are slow with stock motors.
I've ripped out the servo wires in both trucks a few times before replacing them with better wires.
The MZM need a fet upgrade, my firelap did not.
The MZM turns better standing still than the firelap.
I've swapped stock parts between the 2 trucks without a problem.
I've stripped both trucks gears diffs twice.
blah blah blah

Anyways they both break if you push them hard , I drive my firelap more than my mzm mainly due to the fact that i like it better. Whatever, my choice to do so. My MZM is sitting collecting dust right now. But it sure looks prrtty.

SteveR1960
2006.02.22, 10:44 PM
Fair enough machine. I will have to investigate the tire - but it just may have been defective - will not remain on the rim. I will just get xspeed motors and install bearing for thefirelaps. Yes - knuckles and shock towers for MZMs are already breaking. The replace the pot wire idea makes a lot of sense.

AustinMini
2006.02.24, 07:15 PM
oops - I madea mistake - I am getting Firel 4 chassis sets for $55 delivered - not RTRs. So RTRs run like $80 delivered, but I don't need bodies , Tx or xtals.

Hi everybody, If been here for A wile now but haven't been active in anything on the rc front for A while. thus the big amount of post on my side. But lately I'm getting more and more intrested in rc again.

now a question !!!!!
I've been looking at de MZM but at a price of around $200 here in the Netherlands, I kinda fell in love with the firelap 4.0 exept i Can't find the damn thing any where. Where did u buy them.

I just posted this 1 and saw it was my first post here !!!!!
where are my manners......
I'm Remco van der Loo ( Iknow dont Laugh) I'm 29 and live in Amsterdam.
Work on the airport loading and unloading big pieces of aluminium I think they call em planes.
Got a girlfriend for about 9 years en a 2 year old son.

Been doing Rcsailboats, speedboats and planes and some cars.
Diving, online gaming and 60 hours a week of work.
My nickname I drive one of them.
That's about it I guess.....
Grtz

SteveR1960
2006.02.24, 08:24 PM
I bought my Firelap chasis set at Toy East in Hong Kong. Shipping was inexpensive and fast. This assumes you have a body and transmitter. You can also buy an MZM RTR there inexpensively. About $99 + shipping. If you want to chat - I am on AIM. SN is SteveR1960. Might be hard to hook up owing to time differences.

SteveR1960
2006.02.25, 04:59 PM
Update on the firelaps:

Firelap #1 - bearings plus MZM motor. Faster than my MZMs without bearings. My son is ticked my truck is faster. My FIrelap actually drifts around turns!!!!!!

Firelap #2 - bearings plus stock motor. Still slow but have not even been through one set of batts and it lacks a front shock tower. No it didn't break - all my MZM ones did and the Firelap shock tower is in an MZM. I don't feel like taking the bearings out, so I will tear down the MZM and put it on the shelf as a Firelap backup. This second firelap has a range issue. Usually with my MZMS, and other Firelap - put the antena down two steps and works great. This one needs the antenna full out. So what really. Will test outside away from basement poles to see real range another day when not wet out.

AustinMini
2006.02.27, 05:21 PM
Steve tnx for your reaction I contacted them to see if they are getting a full set in ???
Havn't got aim U have a link ?????
Grtz

SteveR1960
2006.02.27, 05:25 PM
Steve tnx for your reaction I contacted them to see if they are getting a full set in ???
Havn't got aim U have a link ?????
Grtz

AIM = AOL Instant Messenger
www.aim.com

you can google it if this board erases the link I gave.

AustinMini
2006.02.28, 09:23 AM
Ahh ok tnx.
Just got my mail back from T o y e a s t, they don't have a complete set of the firelap 4.0 any more because it is discontinued. AAAAAHHHHHHH.
If I buy a complete set of the firelap 2.0 would it be possible to use the controller on a firelap 4.0 chassis set ????

Grtz

AustinMini
2006.03.06, 08:27 PM
Ok took me a couple of days but I just bought me a firelap 4.0 RTR in the bay

Grtz