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machine
2006.02.22, 08:27 PM
I know i'm prolly gonna get hacked on this topic but it frustrates me when someone new comes along and asks for opinions about iwaver or firelaps. Then the same guys pipe up giving the same opinion about thier one time experience that went bad. I'm not defending the cars outright, don't get me wrong here, but why is it that the same guys always giving the same opinion each time. I know everyone has opinions and it's a public forum, i'm not tell people to go away or anything like that, but how much time is wasted giving the same post to the same questions over and over again?

I just find it tiresome to see the same thing over and over again from the same people. I could understand it if it were different people posting about problems, but it isn't it the same people posting the same thing over and over and over again.

there i said it, let the hacks begins!!



:D

HammerZ
2006.02.22, 09:10 PM
I'll only hack to say, that I have seen this sort of thing on every forum I have seen. Some more so than others, in some cases I may have been a part of it. There has been one case on another forum, that I have seen the same member post the same line in every thread. It make's it hard to tell one thread from another. I guess it goes to show that where ever you go, you will find someone that is a real case.
Ok, enough hacking.

Sasquatch
2006.02.22, 09:41 PM
Meh, not as bad as some other forums. Go to MRCC, or Infernal (but I haven't been there in a long time, and they did a pretty good job) and you'll see how much better it is here. Go to BP and it can be pretty rough if you start out on the wrong foot.

I give out the same opinion over and over again because I haven't encountered anything that has seriously changed it. Like Iwavers, I am trying to let everyone know that it's still an option and isn't as bad (at least for me so far) if you give it a chance.

Maybe what we should do is, get several volunteer members who will take some time out to do a big write-up on all the 28th scale vehicles out there, with comparison charts, opinions, mini-reviews and all that. Then just have it stickied and locked somewhere, only to be touched with corrections and additions. Then just give the link to all the new people and lock their thread.

Don't worry machine, we all gotta get stuff off our chests, thats why I bike.

arch2b
2006.02.22, 10:43 PM
glad to see you post your thoughts machine.

i guess you see one person post the same thing to the same question is well, because the same questions get asked again and again. they could have read the previous question and replies, added anything futher and made whatever decision they wanted. instead you get the same old, same old as happens everywhere and your bound to see repeat answers, just as in the repeat questions. it could also be that fewer persons are answering those questions so that the one person that is stands out. for better or worse, atleast they are posting. there are many, many more people who just lurk. it's hard to fault one person for atleast offering their opinion when many more simply don't. while i think the general iwaver opinion here is a no brainer, it's definately well under rated from those who have had good experiences. i know there are happy iwaver owners out there, either they simply are outnumbered by those who are either unhappy or ambivilient or the positive opinions just don't get posted to the same degree?

also, iwavers are definatley an option to be considered. the company has potential. they just haven't produced a quality product as of yet of their own to back up all the press. can't blame them entirely either. it's no small feat bringing a product to market. there are bound to be issues and how well a company adapts is a good indicator of how long it will be around. so far iwaver has gone a long way to make changes. lets hope the behind the scenes changes make for improved quality products on the consumer end.

for the record, i have no idea which thread your referring to or whom your referring to.

machine
2006.02.22, 10:53 PM
i'm only refer to this iwaver forum and no one inparticular, just upset at how this forum that could be used as a tool to intice changes to a decent option to K has become the same people posting the same opinon. I realize that the same question gets asked quite a bit, cause people are always interested in alternatives people want choices.

Sasq,

i shave my chest to get something off it, i'm just venting.

Mods,

If you want to delete this thread feel free, it doesn't contribute anything really.

arch2b
2006.02.23, 05:10 AM
we really need to get more iwaver owners to speak up is all.... we can't leave it all to the same people to respond al lthe time.

while it may not contribute to the iwaver cause, your point remains the same and that is expressing and letting others respond. like all threads, it will get bumped down the the back pages where no one looks anymore

byebye
2006.02.23, 07:23 AM
I agree with you Machine and I will delete this thread..........J/K!:P

Actually I do agree with you. There is not enough good information put out on each product and there really isn't a good resource for that information here other than the search button. The shop has a review button and customers are welcome to right thier opinion on the product. We, the minizracer.com team, are working on solutions to lots of problems and queries with the forums and the shops and will soon be holding focus groups as well as scheduled subject expert Q&A's. This is all future stuff that we(3 of us) are trying to get rolling.

I appreciate you coming out and venting because its just more information to use for our future plans.

-Byebye

Taazz
2006.02.23, 08:59 AM
I personally have tried to give Iwaver the benefit of the doubt. I have tried to balance my reviews. There are positives and those do need to be put out there. On the other hand, given my experience with 3 different cars and 5 replacement boards both Pro version and stock version (a total of 8 boards and only one Pro board is still working) I have to continue to tell individuals that are considering Iwaver that it is probably not a good investment. My opinion is based not on a single incident, but an almost three month journey that has ended with Tower giving me an almost no questions asked refund of most of my money. That has to say something as well.

I am very particular about my equipment. I do not abuse it or trash it. Those I race with can not believe the problems that I have had with my Iwavers. The Iwaver can not be run as hard or as long without damaging the PCB from my experience, nor can it compete with a Mini Z if you are serious about racing. If you want a better than toy quality car just to play around with then Iwaver is the ticket.

In spite of it all, I love my one running Iwaver. I wouldn't trade it for even a Mini Z. However, until they offer a consistantly high quality product that does not have to be tweaked by an experienced racer, I can not in good consience encourge others to purchase the car, especially new racers.

imxlr8ed
2006.02.23, 10:31 AM
My 2 cents...

I have a lot of younger guys attending my races and they don't have the highest of budgets. Some guys show up with them, only to find that they are very hard to maintain consistent performance with Iwavers. Now I'm not referring to the MR02 version Iwaver... I had a used MR02 style... got it to basically get the alloy off of it... rebuilt the car, had it as a loaner for a while. Towards the end of one day, it got halfway down the backstretch, then decided to throw on the brakes and proceed to engulf itself with a nice cloud of fet smoke. Car ran great before that, it's still a mystery. :confused:

The newer version seems like a good idea, but in stock trim they seem to be constructed of a plastic that is not rigid enough to have consistent performance.

Guess what I'm trying to say here is that... I hate to see that look on a racer's face that seems to say... I just shoulda spent a little more, and bought a MiniZ.

I would like to see some new version Iwaver racer times on HFAY though... that is a good way to tell what's what out there ! (shameless promotion once again ! :D )

Anything 1/28th is cool with me though, but obviously I do have a preference.

bolter9
2006.02.23, 10:58 AM
In regards to Machine's post- I agree. Unfortunately though, that's the nature of forums (and life in general). The people with the most to complain about are generally the most verbal.

In addition, the problem is also a result of newbies not using the search tool. How many threads have been started lately regarding the future of mini z F1? (for instance). Sadly again, this is just one of those things with a forum.

For the record, I've had an iwaver 02 for a year now, and it runs well- not as high quality as the kyosho, but works great none-the-less.

Taazz
2006.02.23, 11:20 AM
Unfortunately, most of the posts Machine is referring to have to do with the newest Iwavers, not the Mini Z knock offs.

I think it is generally agreed that if you are going to buy an Iwaver, buy the knock off or the re-branded Firelap brand.

hep038
2006.02.23, 11:30 AM
I am quite the lurker here at miniz but this topic has got me to post because I feel I kind of fit the iwaver profile. I have followed the hobby for years and have many different cars. Some collect dust, some get run on a regular basis. When I started getting interested in 1/28 scale, I did not know there was anything but miniz. So when I saw that I could "get my feet wet" at a reduced cost I jumped. I read all the post and what everyone had to say, but my personal opinion was 1 of 2 things would happen. Either I would like 1/28 scale cars or not. Even if the iwaver broke down or lasted forever if I had fun with the car I would sooner or later get a real miniz. Well I liked it. So first I got a F1 because. They are damn cool and 2.Their was no substitute. Then I used this site to read up on what MR-01 , MR015 and MR-02 really were. Made a decision and got a MR-02. This site has been invaluable to me in making my decision. I too have read the many post about Iwaver and so far mine is running fine. I know at any moment for no reason it could fall apart, but I feel happy it has served its purpose because it has lead me into a new branch of the hobby that I might not have tried otherwise. Maybe if people posted YMMV (your mileage may vary) after their Iwaver review it might soften things up a little bit. :D

imxlr8ed
2006.02.23, 12:50 PM
YMMV (your mileage may vary) :D

True dat ! Good one ! :D

will3kgt
2006.02.23, 05:37 PM
I've been an owner and defender of many Iwavers and with all the money I've spent repairing and replacing them I could have had more Kyosho brand cars. Some cars ran fine, most did not, and over time all of my Iwavers failed in some way. However, I love the alloy parts they make. Other than that I;d advise anyone to save your money or buy a used Kyosho because Iwavers are just too much of a gamble....That's not an opinion, it's a matter of fact...I don't see anyone competing in HFAY or OLPS with an Iwaver and if you are you won't sniff the top of the list because your car won't make though the whole race.

soyverde
2006.02.23, 07:12 PM
Well, kenontap seems to regularly beat the pants off several of us at the DC GTGs with them, gamble or no. I'd have to argue that in spite of the general consensus (and even some of my personal experience), your "too much of a gamble" statement is still an opinion...

machine
2006.02.23, 07:50 PM
Wow decent posts and a civil manner to boot! I though i'd surely get slammed on this one. Funny this post was my original point about the Iwaver Forum.

've been an owner and defender of many Iwavers and with all the money I've spent repairing and replacing them I could have had more Kyosho brand cars. Some cars ran fine, most did not, and over time all of my Iwavers failed in some way. However, I love the alloy parts they make. Other than that I;d advise anyone to save your money or buy a used Kyosho because Iwavers are just too much of a gamble....That's not an opinion, it's a matter of fact...I don't see anyone competing in HFAY or OLPS with an Iwaver and if you are you won't sniff the top of the list because your car won't make though the whole race.

what the heck is HFAY and OLPS?

arch2b
2006.02.23, 08:00 PM
how fast are you online points series :)

http://www.howfastareyou.com/

imxlr8ed
2006.02.24, 12:18 PM
Interesting thing here, though they may have a multitude of technical issues... the boards are more powerful than the Kyosho ESCs... I equate the power to a Kyosho ESC with a single layer turbo, but then again... even the power from the Iwaver boards has been inconsistent from board to board... but if someone gets a fast one, and they have good driving skills... look out ! :eek:

Zephyr von Bobo
2006.02.25, 07:42 PM
I'm going to log into this site every couple of weeks and post my experiences on every single thread I can. I figure if they are asking the question, then they probably haven't seen the same threads where I answered last time.

My friends and I have gone through 6 of the "new style" IW-02s and and I believe we only have two left, but they still have smaller problems and I'm sure their days are numbered as well. I have personally spent a lot of money (relative to me) for nothing but junk. I am so pissed at myself for buying this garbage and I do not want anyone else to experience the same problems I have had. In no way do I feel as though I am out of line (not that anyone stated so) and on the contrary I hope my message some how makes it to Iwaver corporate because they must decide to fix their problems or eventually drop the line.

I guess I do feel bad that you all have to read my negativity on every thread, but blame Iwaver and not myself. Believe me, I wanted my cars to work very badly. I have never even seen a kyosho out of the box let alone play with one so I have no kyosho fanboy chip on my shoulder. All I want is for iwaver to fix their "new style" line, not that it matters though because any dollar I spend on mini rc in the future will be paid to Kyosho.

PS- to make matters worse, this has strained my relationship with my LHS that I have been going to for 23 years. They will not refund my money for the items due to "policy", and the problems have been so consistent with the exchanges that they feel as though I am trying to scam them. I am no longer their customer and that sucks for both of us. I blame the shop for their stance, however it was Iwaver that put us both in that situation.

leonen
2006.02.27, 09:56 AM
I was not fustrated, but dissapointed with this forum cause all I found was K cheerers and that IW was pure **** more or less.

I tried to give my opinion and tell about our experiences using IW. But all I found was guys with "more posts" believing they had the only truth and afirming in every way they could that "K ruled!!!" LOL....

I guess that if the same product is sold by one brand at 10 bucks and 20 by another brand, someone is cheating, robbing or... simply you're not gettin the same product. Perhaps comparing K and IW is like comparing Ferraris with Daewos. But not everybody can afford to buy Ferraris. Nor needs to buy a Ferrari to have fun racing!!!!

Yeah, it's true that to fine tune the Daewo to compete against a Ferrari you'll need to invest money and hard work. But......

OBVIOUSLY THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE A POINT HERE. I Don't have anything against a Daewo, and I don't intent to compare them to Ferraris..... .

IW's are not ****. I have several models and yes it's true, they very delicate to fine tune. But once you hit the nail on the head.....watch out.

I've read that the IW02 that were sold last year in the US and Europe had a lot of problems, and that's why they quickly were removed from the market by the company and replaced by a newer model. I guess that's a responsible thing to do. Don't you think? All the models recieved and sold here in Argentina had no problems.

Iwaver is not trying to rip people off. I see it as a company offering a second option to what a GIANT like K has the sole marketshare, and improving their quality and offers everyday.

I think that forums are for people to express their opinion freely, but as usual and as it happens in all orders in life, some guys just abuse their freedom and misuseit.

Threads like this Machine, makes this forum a little bit more mature. Maturity also comes with time, so let's help time and make this a better forum, writing not the same stuff over and over again.

Anyway the personality of the forum will be the personality of those that write in it. And there are a lot a great people here. Let them not be overshined by dummies. That's a job for moderators. Deleting repeated posts and banning people it's not bad. It shouldn't be a way of life, but sometimes helps.

Thanks.

Hypocrisy
2006.02.27, 10:31 AM
nice thread!
iwaver has had some quality issues, i think that they wanted their r02 out on the market to fast. it was crap and a new one is coming out, i actually looking forward to see it, i have heard that iwaver has changed their production to a new factory, if thats true then it shows that they are really commited to this hobby.

in the last 3 months i have seen alot of faulty r02`s and even some firelap02 cars (cracked bottom of the chassi and twitchy steering) i myself have a iw mr02 and have been running it since it came out in 2004 (well the only thing that remains of the original car is the electronics and top plate) a friend recently switched his servo in his R02 to a hitec micro, and was quite fast with it so the potential in the car seems to be there.. better quality and K finally has some real competition in the 1/27 market.

if they can step up a notch in quality then they will have a better reputation, and they will surely steal a big part of the market in 1/27 from K.. atleast if you look at a 1-2 year perspective.

arch2b
2006.02.27, 07:32 PM
ive said this over and over and over, iwaver is a welcome change. as soon as they can produce a qualoity product (within the u.s. market) i'm sure it will do alot in generating interest in this scale. as many others have stated, lets hope the efforts they have made to improve the quality of the product pay off. a cheap fm car will be a revolutionary thing for this scale.

i will not support banning or deleting threads from anyone unless they are way out of bounds regarding the rules. doing so would make us no better than some other forums that were rediculous with the level of scrutiny, banning and deletions. i don't care if the same person posts his personal experiences 100 times, so long as they are not repeat posts or insulting or other egreegious acts, just read them for what they are. i can't tell you how many times i've been chewed out for deleting threads rather then than complaints regarding not banning or deleting threads. i favor less censorship rather than more.

i may be in the minority but i fell the experienced people here have generally posted an equalized opinion of iwaver. while most have obvious complaints, they typically are quick to point out the benifits of atleast having another player on the field.

leon, while we are all envious of your regions obvious good luck witrh iwaver, the u.s. market has not been so lucky. for whatever reason, their products have not done well here simply due to quality issues. it goes much father than just our forum posts and threads. i think you will find most retails have had similar experiences selling them as we consumers have had using them. please do not discount experiences by others simply because you have had nothing but good iwavers. athough it's less seldom to see quality complaints regarding kysoho, they do exist. they are not without their own quirks but the percentages for both iwaver and kyosho tell an interesting story.

Taazz
2006.02.28, 07:55 AM
leon, while we are all envious of your regions obvious good luck witrh iwaver, the u.s. market has not been so lucky. for whatever reason, their products have not done well here simply due to quality issues.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. The biggest quality issue for me has been the boards. I am pleased with most everything else about the car. It is not about tuning the car. It is about being able to put a non kit motor in the car to make it competitive and have it not lose range.

A box stock Iwaver was a full 3 to 4 seconds slower per lap than an 02 Mini Z with a stock Kyosho motor on the track we ran over the weekend. I do have 1 Iwaver that is running with a replacement Pro board and a stock Kyosho motor. This Iwaver was able to run 2 seconds faster than the box stock Iwaver, but was still at least a second slower than the 02 Z.

My experience is that the newest Iwaver with an equal motor will not beat a Mini Z. My experience is also that you can not even put a stock Kyosho motor in the Iwaver and have the board last. I have had 8 of the newest Iwaver boards so far. Three that came in kits, three stock replacements and two pro replacements. I have one pro board that has survived running a stock Kyosho motor in the car. The other 7 boards have all either immediately, or over a couple of weekends of racing lost all range when running the stock Kyosho motor in them. These cars are treated exactly as my Mini Zs are and I have had no problems with my Mini Zs. I haven't even tried to run hotter Istock or Xspeed motors in the Iwaver and they are frying.

Until this issue is addresed, I can not in good conscience recommend to anyone that they try Iwaver.

Hypocrisy
2006.02.28, 09:51 AM
well to get the R02 fast youll need: faster servo, stiffer plastic with better quality, less slop in the steering and a well working suspension all around, all those thing werent really good without some modifications on the R02, and it seems that it will be fixed on the new kit. and if the new FM electronics works as it should it should be as fast if not faster than a MR02 (when comparing both box stock) and with some options it should be possible to hold up to the modified and tuned mr02`s.. but i guess we`ll see when the kit is unleashed to the market.. would be really nice to spank some mr02`s with a iwaver designed and produced car!

leonen
2006.02.28, 11:20 AM
i will not support banning or deleting threads from anyone unless they are way out of bounds regarding the rules. doing so would make us no better than some other forums that were rediculous with the level of scrutiny, banning and deletions. i don't care if the same person posts his personal experiences 100 times, so long as they are not repeat posts or insulting or other egreegious acts, just read them for what they are. i can't tell you how many times i've been chewed out for deleting threads rather then than complaints regarding not banning or deleting threads. i favor less censorship rather than more.


I'm not a supporter to censorship. I said that "IT should NOT be a way of life". Please don't take it as if I'm telling moderators to scratch out people and opinions. I just think that sometimes moderators.... have to moderate the conversations and discussions so that caos doesn't takes over. (hey.. i'm just being a bit exagereted so it's a little more graphical!)



leon, while we are all envious of your regions obvious good luck witrh iwaver, the u.s. market has not been so lucky. for whatever reason, their products have not done well here simply due to quality issues. it goes much father than just our forum posts and threads. i think you will find most retails have had similar experiences selling them as we consumers have had using them. please do not discount experiences by others simply because you have had nothing but good iwavers. athough it's less seldom to see quality complaints regarding kysoho, they do exist. they are not without their own quirks but the percentages for both iwaver and kyosho tell an interesting story.

Archie, I know that the US and part of Europe recieved faulty cars. I fully understand that. It's something that's been written over and over and over and over here and other forums. I'm not discarding experiences that are not the same to what we had. Far from that, I just used that to say that the brand's intention wasn't to rob people. To irresponsibly sell crap. All cars with problems were replaced and all cars on the market were removed. Iwaver acted responsively, as a major company that respects customers would do.

Perhaps you are acustomed to that kind of treatment in the US, but it's not a common way of bussiness in the rest of the world.... and removing the deffective product, exchanging manufacturers and introducing a brand new product to worldwide market, is something that not any robber do .....

Perhaps they lack of some big market experience and anouncing new cars long before it's ready to be launched, plays against them. K announced (leaked) info about the AWD only 1 or 2 months before release date. I bet the AWD was already built and tested long before.

Anyway, we're not discussing quality of some product in this thread I guess.... but quality of posts and discussions, right Machine ? Ain't that what was all this thread about? Dissapointment of reading over and over and over the same things ???




Please don't take it personal. It's not aimed to no one in particular.

machine
2006.02.28, 12:19 PM
Anyway, we're not discussing quality of some product in this thread I guess.... but quality of posts and discussions, right Machine ?

exactly.

Maybe a sticky "personnel experiences" would help keep the same opinions front and center. I enjoy reading the questions people post, "why did this happen, can i do this to my car" etc. And i'll usually post and try to help them give them some suggestions and help them move forward. I just hate seeing the general post "Oh you should have saved up and gotten something else" i mean that doesn't help the guy asking the question, it just makes him feel bad that he tried something else. At least try to help him out first, offer a suggection on how to fix his car.

Guys,

I'm not talking about quality of the cars, quality in general or anyway comparing I to K, I'm talking about the same people posting the same thing post after post.

Taazz
2006.02.28, 01:08 PM
I guess the bottom line is that, personally, I am not going to start any additional threads regarding the quality of Iwaver or should you buy or not. However, if there are threads being responded to or started by others I am going to post my experiences and opinions regarding Iwaver even if they have been posted before.

People come to the forums looking for information before they buy and they are entitled to an honest opinon. Just because they didn't use the search function doesn't mean we should not give them the information that they are looking for.

I do agree that opinions and experiences should be shared in and informative and civil manner.

byebye
2006.02.28, 01:27 PM
If you've had a good experience then state it. If you haven't don't try and sugar coat crap.

-Byebye

Zephyr von Bobo
2006.03.01, 07:46 PM
I know that the US and part of Europe recieved faulty cars. I fully understand that. It's something that's been written over and over and over and over here and other forums.

What model was this you are refering to? The MR clone or the "new" design IW02?

SteveR1960
2006.03.11, 09:30 AM
What model was this you are refering to? The MR clone or the "new" design IW02?


My Firelap experience:

Firelap 4.0 #1: bad turning radius next to my MZMs.

Firelap 4.0 #2: arrived with bad range. So far, have been excahnging emails with Toy East for 2 weeks.

EMU
2006.03.11, 11:36 PM
In general, all of the Iwavers that I have had besides 2 are no longer operational (I think I have had 11 total). I have not had any of the newest 02's, since they didnt seem to do well from the first production run. I had planned to get one, but I didnt really see many good reviews about it.

I used to be a big Iwaver fan, hoping that the next car they release would be better than a Kyosho. I still think that the old IW01's that I had with the clear controllers were the best ones. Any time a new chassis revision came out, I would make orders. For the most part, they would work alright out of the box, and after a little tweaking they would be good for a little while. The biggest problem that I had with the cars was the loss of range.

In general, when people ask the same questions, they will get the same answers. Whether it is in this forum, or any other forum. Some forums have more traffic, which will generate different responses depending on the experiences that those people have had with the RC's. This section has less traffic now than it did when I first joined these boards. When I first joined here, there was more of an Iwaver craze... more changes occuring, lots of promises from Steve@TE. I would like to see what changes are made with the IW02M and see if it will be worth investing my money into.

I am allways looking into different 1/24-28 RC's. The more companies that make good RC's in this scale, the better it is for the consumer. Depending on the initial reviews of the IW02M I will decide on getting the chassis set. The main deciding factor will be the quality of the electronics, which is my main issue with the current Iwavers.

I am sure that some people may have great experiences with their Iwavers, some may run better than Kyoshos. Until most of the reviews are positive reviews, I am going to avoid getting another, and would advise other people entering the hobby to do so as well. When Iwaver can deliver a product that will work without an major issues on a regular basis, then I will recommend them again.