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arch2b
2006.03.17, 08:40 PM
core, is there any new you can give us regarding kyosho's release of the core system? it's been a very, very long time since the deal seems to have been struck and we've heard aug of last year as a date tossed around but nothign every came of it?

any news on what packages will be offered?

any news on what developments have been made?

razzor
2006.11.03, 02:26 PM
I have a few questions.
1. How is there a support forum for a timing system that cannot be bought ???

2.If kyosho is going to be selling the system ,when will this be happening as I have been waiting for a long time to buy a system.

3.What happened to Kyosho using the Lap-z system ?

briankstan
2006.11.03, 03:16 PM
I have a few questions.
1. How is there a support forum for a timing system that cannot be bought ???

2.If kyosho is going to be selling the system ,when will this be happening as I have been waiting for a long time to buy a system.

3.What happened to Kyosho using the Lap-z system ?


1. the timing system was Designed by and release by Core Analog, Kyosho purchased the rights to this system and will be manufacturing and selling them through their distributors. The system has been released with a limited # of production units by Core speedway and there are lots of people using them.

2. Kyosho has not released this system through their network and a release date has not been posted.

3. Don't know this one, sorry.

jborge
2006.11.14, 11:44 PM
Judging by the petition for the Lap Z system, they most likely will take their time:

http://www.petitiononline.com/lapzpet/petition.html


Also the Core system will need FCC and CE approvals so it is legal to sell. That could take a while as well.





Copy of petition below:


To: Kyosho

(English version, Spanish following)

To Kyosho/Devinco AS:

The LapZ system (www.lapz.com), distributed by Kyosho (www.kyosho.com) and developed by Devinco AS (www.devinco.no), is a computerized timing/Race & Tournament management system intended for 1:28 scale model (known as Mini-Z) racing. Its comprised by hardware (one sensing bridge and individual transponders) which detects and signal each car as it passes by the finish line to the computer, and software, the "LapZ Nitro" (http://www.lapz.com/lapz_nitro.htm) program, whose two main functions are to receive those signals, accounting each car lap times and number of laps, and taking care of all the race/tournament management. Without both parts, hardware and software, in close and working relationship, the system is useless for the task that is being sold.

The LapZ system, being distributed by the same manufacturer as the racing cars (known as Mini-Z, http://www.kyosho.co.jp/web/products/car_bike/miniz/index-e.html) has been widely adopted in Europe, Spain and all countries that host Mini-Z Races, to manage the regular and ever growing local, national and even international race events; as a result, not only clubs and racetracks invested on the LapZ system by buying the Sensing Bridge/LapZ Nitro software, but lots of racers bought the personal transponders too. As a example, in the Southern Spain Mini-Z Championship (Campeonato Andaluz de Mini-Z) where this system is used, more than 100 different racers registered to compete on 2005.

The LapZ Nitro software last update took place in February 2004, (LapZ Nitro version v1.31) more than 2 years ago to the time of this writing (March 20th 2006), and is still severely flawed. It lacks the stability that a product to manage a race event, where time is everything, and race data losses are not tolerable and unrepeteable, should had amongst its basic design principles. Even worse, for a product backed and sold by a renowned company in the RC World like Kyosho. The program keeps crashing while doing rutinary race management tasks like qualification heat management and editing, mains generation, etc. Thus being unsuitable for race event management unless several contortions are followed during its use, contortions that far from easing its use and providing functionality, deeply restrict it.

Regarding hardware, on the last transponder production/revision Quality Control seems to have issues, as an alarming percentage of new transponders don't signal its presence to the sensor bridge in a random manner; this has generated a growing lack of confidence on the system by the racers.

Regarding support, apart from the handful web pages on www.lapz.com, is far from existant. Mails directed to the support address aren't answered, bug reports (see http://www.sevizeta.com/Tecnica/45/peticion-a-kyoshodevinco-as-por-un-lapz-nitro-estable) were sent several times, though they weren't aknowledged nor ever answered.

We, the undersigned, ask Kyosho to:

1.- Release a new version of the LapZ Nitro Software fixing the existing bugs, making it available for the actual LapZ owners through Internet.

2.- Fix the QC on transponder manufacturing, or the design/parts flaw that causes the last revision of transponders to randonly fail.

rharris
2006.11.15, 01:28 AM
Judging by the petition for the Lap Z system, they most likely will take their time:

http://www.petitiononline.com/lapzpet/petition.html
Also the Core system will need FCC and CE approvals so it is legal to sell. That could take a while as well.

Copy of petition below:

That's a bummer about the lap-z system. No one want's bugs on race day.

But as for the Core system... I don't think they will need further approval. The reader and cards are Texas Instruments. They've already been approved.

arch2b
2006.11.15, 05:06 AM
core has already released a limited number of units. i don't think htey would do this without the necessary approval, so i assume they have already gotten fcc and whatever else approval.

what could be taking so long is approval from jpn market regulators?

Fovea3d
2006.11.15, 12:26 PM
core has already released a limited number of units. i don't think htey would do this without the necessary approval, so i assume they have already gotten fcc and whatever else approval.

what could be taking so long is approval from jpn market regulators?

Maybe they bought the licence so there will be not any competitor to their Lap-Z system? Happens all the time.
I hope its not true :eek:

arch2b
2006.11.15, 12:38 PM
if that were the case, they would be pushing lap z. instead they appear to be using core in jpn? from some of the finals screen shots of the pc, it looked like a core menu anyway.

Sinister_Y
2006.11.18, 06:59 PM
This is just hearsay, but the delay may have something to do with Kyosho supposedly releasing a new generation mini-z with CORE technology built into the circuit board. No more transponders....

Anyway, that's what I hear. Don't know how reliable it is, but just thought I would mention.

briankstan
2006.11.18, 07:03 PM
This is just hearsay, but the delay may have something to do with Kyosho supposedly releasing a new generation mini-z with CORE technology built into the circuit board. No more transponders....

Anyway, that's what I hear. Don't know how reliable it is, but just thought I would mention.

Actually that would really be cool

LBRC
2006.11.18, 08:29 PM
Would be great but you wouldn’t build the RFID tag into the circuit board it would have to be part of the chassis, which runs into one of the classic RFID problems i.e. finding a place for the tag (transponder) where metal and electronic objects don’t interfere.

Whatever Kyosho is doing I wish they’d hurry. Anyone have a core system they want to sell? We really need another timing system shipping one back and forth is sort of a royal pain.

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 03:40 AM
Would be great but you wouldn’t build the RFID tag into the circuit board it would have to be part of the chassis, which runs into one of the classic RFID problems i.e. finding a place for the tag (transponder) where metal and electronic objects don’t interfere.

Whatever Kyosho is doing I wish they’d hurry. Anyone have a core system they want to sell? We really need another timing system shipping one back and forth is sort of a royal pain.
I have a core system for sale, it is on ebay right now it has 40+ regular transponders and 8 f1 smaller transponders I was one of the very fortunate few to get one. Took me for every to get it now I don't need it.

LBRC
2006.11.22, 04:06 AM
I have a core system for sale, it is on ebay right now it has 40+ regular transponders and 8 f1 smaller transponders I was one of the very fortunate few to get one. Took me for every to get it now I don't need it.

Interested but can’t find the auction.

madf1man
2006.11.22, 09:35 AM
I saw it for 1200.00 bucks along with an 1200.00 RCP track.

Ninja
2006.11.22, 09:38 AM
our racing club has also wanted one forever. We cant seem to get our hands on one for a reasonable price. We tried to get one of the demo/test models but were denied. At the time we were bigger than 3-4 of the other racing clubs that recieved one of them at no charge for testing. Maybe it isnt how compitant you are, but instead who you know.

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 10:43 AM
The auction number is260055451404 and I am also selling the track.

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 10:47 AM
our racing club has also wanted one forever. We cant seem to get our hands on one for a reasonable price. We tried to get one of the demo/test models but were denied. At the time we were bigger than 3-4 of the other racing clubs that recieved one of them at no charge for testing. Maybe it isnt how compitant you are, but instead who you know.
I know it took me forever. I have been in rc for 32 years and I run down in that area alot so I think it was who I knew. I just put the buy it now for what I paid for it so I will get at least something back. At least it beats 3,200 for a Amb decoder and software.

machine
2006.11.22, 10:51 AM
Wow that seems like alot of funds for the Core system, but it does have the 40 transponders.

To bad the F1 transponders are bundled up, i would have taken them all asap.

Ninja
2006.11.22, 10:54 AM
any hints on how high the reserve is on the Core system?

briankstan
2006.11.22, 11:06 AM
any hints on how high the reserve is on the Core system?

I have seen many used systems change hands for under $550.

the retail on the transponders is $13ea. (40 x 13 = $520) You can contact core directly for bulk buys at a discount.

The core system sells/sold new for $699

The word was that once Kyosho releases the core system that the price would be less.. I'm not sure when that will be.

I wouldn't want someone to pay more than retail for a used system.

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 11:38 AM
I have seen many used systems change hands for under $550.

the retail on the transponders is $13ea. (40 x 13 = $520) You can contact core directly for bulk buys at a discount.

The core system sells/sold new for $699

The word was that once Kyosho releases the core system that the price would be less.. I'm not sure when that will be.

I wouldn't want someone to pay more than retail for a used system.
I never got to use the system we never raced and there is f1 trasnponders as well as the 40 standard. I paid 1,200.00 for what I have.

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 11:42 AM
any hints on how high the reserve is on the Core system?
I will give you a hint the reserve is hundereds less than what I paid I just need to get something out of it.

stuZ
2006.11.22, 12:42 PM
jbent and briankstan:
just out of curiosity, what are you guys going to use instead of core?

briankstan
2006.11.22, 12:57 PM
jbent and briankstan:
just out of curiosity, what are you guys going to use instead of core?

I still have my core (we are located in Utah)

I won't be selling it anytime soon. It's what our club uses. It's a great system.

Draconious
2006.11.22, 01:07 PM
I slapped a bid on it ;) Might bid again latter pending how much $ I have at the time... If I do manage to get it I will likly sell off some of the xponders... which is prolly what you shoulda done ;)

jbenthobbies
2006.11.22, 11:43 PM
jbent and briankstan:
just out of curiosity, what are you guys going to use instead of core?
I am going to go back and open a 1/10 carpet track and run amb.

Ninja
2006.11.23, 12:18 AM
you know you could run the core system with that right?

jborge
2006.11.23, 01:23 AM
This is just hearsay, but the delay may have something to do with Kyosho supposedly releasing a new generation mini-z with CORE technology built into the circuit board. No more transponders....

Anyway, that's what I hear. Don't know how reliable it is, but just thought I would mention.


The core system is based on traditional, proven RFID technology. The transponder card has a chip and an coil antenna built inside. The card is a standard off the shelf component. The bigger the card, the better the pickup range as the antenna coil in the card is larger.

Kyosho could technically buy the chip in the card (about 30cents) from the semi-conductor company, and etch their own antenna coil on the circuitboard on the car controller. I don't think they have enough area to do this on the circuitboard, unless they go with UHF, which is not likely.

Bringing the product as it is now to market takes time.
Because RFID radiates RF energy, it must be tested for FFC part 15 and international equivilents. Getting the proper FCC and european approvals is mandatory for Kyosho/Core to be allowed to sell the product.

Draconious
2006.11.23, 08:48 AM
Not sure a 1/10 track would be much fun only 100cm wide ;) -- the Mini-Z Core counter would need a larger/longer loop. And I tossed another bid... I want it, but cannot afford anymore.

arch2b
2006.11.23, 09:32 AM
...Bringing the product as it is now to market takes time.
Because RFID radiates RF energy, it must be tested for FFC part 15 and international equivilents. Getting the proper FCC and european approvals is mandatory for Kyosho/Core to be allowed to sell the product.
corespeedway already has these approvals for the existing core system. it may be kyosho's bid to integrate the technology requires additional testing/approvals which would explain the years it's been since the announcement was made. this stuff takes time.... for .30 they could just as easily mold the chip into the bottom of the chassis reducing any potential interference issues as well as ensuring best reception strength. each chassis in a kit or new chassis from a rtr or chassis set could have the chip vs. squeezing it onto an already crowded pcb. it's no tlike they have to worry abotu running out of identifier numbers.

Draconious
2006.11.23, 12:01 PM
The chip could also be powered by the AAA on board the car... in which case the antenna does not need to be so large ;).

Also there are groups of people boycotting such products, RF bar codes on products etc.. they primarily dont wnat it on food products but they dont want it on anything etc... its "polution" in their mind ;).

jbenthobbies
2006.11.23, 01:12 PM
you know you could run the core system with that right?
I know but I owed the amb before I got the cores system.

arch2b
2006.11.23, 06:10 PM
the antenna isn't very long to begin with so i would not see any reason to do that. it only goes from one side of the track to the other. drawing power from the pcb is and always has been one of the complaints about others such as amb-it. i would avoid that at all costs.

rfid boycotters: while that is certainly taking it to the extreme, it has no relevance to this thread at all?

Draconious
2006.11.23, 10:04 PM
its more relavent than some one selling their core counter in this thread ;)...

it was a possible reason why kyosho might be going slow lol... to see how these idiots would react ;) (just a silly reason im not all that serious).

arch2b
2006.11.24, 08:37 AM
i seriously doubt k. would even give a damn about those nuts.

jborge
2006.11.25, 12:36 PM
The chip could also be powered by the AAA on board the car... in which case the antenna does not need to be so large ;).

Also there are groups of people boycotting such products, RF bar codes on products etc.. they primarily dont wnat it on food products but they dont want it on anything etc... its "polution" in their mind ;).


RFID is everywhere.
It is embedded in your car key for car imobializers, laundery mats use them to tag shirts, It is used in acess control, it is used on Toll roads for tracking cars, and Wallmart is embedding loops in all of it's shelving so they can count inventory and search for misplaced products, same goes for libraries, and the shoplifting secuirity gates at stores are RFID and soon they will be in passports and now we are timing RC cars with them.

I think the big stink in RFID is the passports. You could technically be tracked as you walk around.

Anyways just a little education for today, not to get off topic.

jborge
2006.11.25, 12:54 PM
the antenna isn't very long to begin with so i would not see any reason to do that. it only goes from one side of the track to the other. drawing power from the pcb is and always has been one of the complaints about others such as amb-it. i would avoid that at all costs.

rfid boycotters: while that is certainly taking it to the extreme, it has no relevance to this thread at all?


Actually the way it works is the loop creates energy (magnetic field). When the car drives over the loop the small loop inside the plastic card gets energized by the magnetic field. This powers up the chip, the chip modulates the magnetic field, which is read by the reader. That is why no power is required for the transponders, they get their power from the loop. The system will not work if you power it from the batteries.