PDA

View Full Version : Just How Important Tires Realy Are


MagicMan
2006.04.04, 04:28 PM
Ok, we've discussed batteries for quite some time, we've come to the conclusion that Intellects are the most punchy, and from a number of experiments from a number of people, Duracell 900's would be on the top of the list for endurance racing.

Now are tires important? YES , obvious answer.

(RCP Track grip MR-01/02)
In my experience of Mini-Zing, I've found (oddly enough) that over time, companies decide to change either the way they 'make' the tire, or the 'compound' of the tire. Because last year, my favorite tire was the GPM 8 for the rear. But as time passed, I noticed you'd have to break these tires in or sand the top coat off before they'd grip. Rather annoying if you ask me.
Then low and behold the Kennon 8 that had come out. These things right out the plastic, grip like you wouldn't believe. They make you forget about suspension tweaks because you're rear will never come out.
Sometimes I see people go through hell trying to figure out why their car isn't handling the way it used to and they tinker with springs, H-plates, damper settings, toe, knuckles, but the last thing (for some unknown reason) that crosses their mind, is TIRES.
I've solved many issues by just swapping tires all around. Now on some OLD rear 8 tires, it would really vary on what you put in the front. But these Kennon 8's are so grippy, you will find yourself wanting even more steering after putting Kennon 8's in the front. And it's NOT because the Kennon 8's dont grip in the front, it's just that the rear can take it on a full throttle, and full stear.
Some people will argue that harder tires in the front will yeild more consistancy, I will reply to this early by saying, BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect.
Simple physics and geometry at its finest actually; if something is sliding from one point to another, rather than taking the shortest line, the one sliding will take more time to get there. Even though the shortest line is closer to intersecting with something along the way, it still will get their faster if no error is made.
My error rate on the track depends on who is out there, and if I'm alone, it's next to 0%. I don't have 30's, 20's 18's 15's or even 10's in the front, I have 8's all around. No slippage, just pure steering input, and the car outputs it to where you want to go. It took some practice, but once you get tuned into your car and become one with it. It actually becomes MORE consistant than you think.
So if you want to shave off those seconds on your lap times, or add some laps in your heat, get some Kennon 8's all around.

(RCP Track grip MA-010)
Call me silly, but the stock tires, are perfect. I've noticed in time the stock rears get slippery, so I slapped on Kennon 8's and it solved the problem. However they are so grippy that the rear will bounce on slow downs. But it you go harder, it will slide. There's no winning unless you get a one way diff in the front to stop the slowdown on the turn in of your car. For me, I just have ball diffs in the front and back, and I just do a lot of throttle control to keep the car planted. Works well. I believe the fronts (stock) are 30's or a weird 35. Because when I try 40's, I get understeer, but when I go buy 30's, they seem to grip more than the stock. I guess you have to break in a new set of 30's because the ones that Kyosho packs the car with seem to be perfect for the front.

(Concrete grip MR-01/02-MA-010)
I believe this is all personal preference because I don't know of any tracks that are of concrete that people pay for to go race at. So I believe that if you are driving on concrete, it's for fun, and when fun is involved, there is no competition, and without competition, people tend to not care who's faster. So whatever works for you, keep doing it.
If you have feed back for this section, feel free. I just keep the tires that work on RCP track and take it to the concrete, because hey, if it works on RCP, it'll work on concrete. Well at least mine do.
In the past I've found extremely hard tires work great on concrete. The stock shiney ones. Reguardless, anyone with some good info on concrete, feel free to reply.

bolter9
2006.04.04, 04:49 PM
Ok, we've discussed batteries for quite some time, we've come to the conclusion that Intellects are the most punchy, and from a number of experiments from a number of people, Duracell 900's would be on the top of the list for endurance racing.

Now are tires important? YES , obvious answer.

(RCP Track grip MR-01/02)
In my experience of Mini-Zing, I've found (oddly enough) that over time, companies decide to change either the way they 'make' the tire, or the 'compound' of the tire. Because last year, my favorite tire was the GPM 8 for the rear. But as time passed, I noticed you'd have to break these tires in or sand the top coat off before they'd grip. Rather annoying if you ask me.
Then low and behold the Kennon 8 that had come out. These things right out the plastic, grip like you wouldn't believe. They make you forget about suspension tweaks because you're rear will never come out.
Sometimes I see people go through hell trying to figure out why their car isn't handling the way it used to and they tinker with springs, H-plates, damper settings, toe, knuckles, but the last thing (for some unknown reason) that crosses their mind, is TIRES.
I've solved many issues by just swapping tires all around. Now on some OLD rear 8 tires, it would really vary on what you put in the front. But these Kennon 8's are so grippy, you will find yourself wanting even more steering after putting Kennon 8's in the front. And it's NOT because the Kennon 8's dont grip in the front, it's just that the rear can take it on a full throttle, and full stear.
Some people will argue that harder tires in the front will yeild more consistancy, I will reply to this early by saying, BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect.
Simple physics and geometry at its finest actually; if something is sliding from one point to another, rather than taking the shortest line, the one sliding will take more time to get there. Even though the shortest line is closer to intersecting with something along the way, it still will get their faster if no error is made.
My error rate on the track depends on who is out there, and if I'm alone, it's next to 0%. I don't have 30's, 20's 18's 15's or even 10's in the front, I have 8's all around. No slippage, just pure steering input, and the car outputs it to where you want to go. It took some practice, but once you get tuned into your car and become one with it. It actually becomes MORE consistant than you think.
So if you want to shave off those seconds on your lap times, or add some laps in your heat, get some Kennon 8's all around.

(RCP Track grip MA-010)
Call me silly, but the stock tires, are perfect. I've noticed in time the stock rears get slippery, so I slapped on Kennon 8's and it solved the problem. However they are so grippy that the rear will bounce on slow downs. But it you go harder, it will slide. There's no winning unless you get a one way diff in the front to stop the slowdown on the turn in of your car. For me, I just have ball diffs in the front and back, and I just do a lot of throttle control to keep the car planted. Works well. I believe the fronts (stock) are 30's or a weird 35. Because when I try 40's, I get understeer, but when I go buy 30's, they seem to grip more than the stock. I guess you have to break in a new set of 30's because the ones that Kyosho packs the car with seem to be perfect for the front.

(Concrete grip MR-01/02-MA-010)
I believe this is all personal preference because I don't know of any tracks that are of concrete that people pay for to go race at. So I believe that if you are driving on concrete, it's for fun, and when fun is involved, there is no competition, and without competition, people tend to not care who's faster. So whatever works for you, keep doing it.
If you have feed back for this section, feel free. I just keep the tires that work on RCP track and take it to the concrete, because hey, if it works on RCP, it'll work on concrete. Well at least mine do.
In the past I've found extremely hard tires work great on concrete. The stock shiney ones. Reguardless, anyone with some good info on concrete, feel free to reply.


I've run on a few smooth concrete tracks- the stock tires are way too hard...the cars spin all over the place. The rule of thumb is to run the softest compound you can get- even some tire compound helps a bit. Also running slicks in the front can help- I've had good luck with Kyosho 30 slicks....gives the car a bit of understeer which keeps the rear from spinning around.

For RCP I have no problems with the Kyosho 10 and 20 MT tires (MR02)...both in competition and just playing around. Again, the rule of thumb is softer compound. Slicks in the front tend to give the car too much understeer on RCP, so I always go with tread.

I agree though, many handling issues can be solved just by putting on a new/softer set of tires.

MagicMan
2006.04.04, 06:04 PM
I've run on a few smooth concrete tracks- the stock tires are way too hard...the cars spin all over the place. The rule of thumb is to run the softest compound you can get- even some tire compound helps a bit. Also running slicks in the front can help- I've had good luck with Kyosho 30 slicks....gives the car a bit of understeer which keeps the rear from spinning around.

For RCP I have no problems with the Kyosho 10 and 20 MT tires (MR02)...both in competition and just playing around. Again, the rule of thumb is softer compound. Slicks in the front tend to give the car too much understeer on RCP, so I always go with tread.

I agree though, many handling issues can be solved just by putting on a new/softer set of tires.

Great insight :) , Try to go out there and get some Kennon 8's. I'll try to find them online. Or have EMU post a link. Anything harder will just slow you down. You may have to adjust your driving, but after that's done, trust me you'll thank me :cool:

MagicMan
2006.04.04, 06:59 PM
Kennon 8's Rear:
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/shop2/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=62_98&products_id=240

Kennon 8's Front:
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/shop2/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=62_98&products_id=360

Darn worth the money. After all, you get what you pay for.

hobbycar
2006.04.04, 08:04 PM
Good post.

I've tried a couple of the different GPM 8s, Atomic 10s Grooved and Atomic 10 AWs for the rears on my MR-02 when running on RCP. I really liked the Atomic 10 AWs before they got worn out. Since then I've been using the GPM 8s which have been pretty good. I should be getting more sets of the Atomic 10 AWs to reverify which ones are better between them and the GPM 8s.

One thing I don't like about the GPM 8s are they don't fill up the whole width of the wheel rim. It's like they are 1-2mm too skinny.

-hobbycar

EMU
2006.04.05, 04:48 AM
One thing to note about the Kenon tires, is that it is the latest batch that is very impressive. If you have used an older set, they are essentially the same as the GPM. The most recent ones that Kenon shipped to the track shop that we race at are the ones we are excited about (slightly different packaging than the older ones).

edit: Lol magic, posting almost at the same time :cool:

Slipstream
2006.04.05, 04:53 AM
GPM has a new tire that has the same tread pattern as the old 8s. These tires are wider and fill up the whole rear wheel. The compound is softer and stickier. It has some sort of compound applied to it as it feels wet out of the bag. The header card on the old narrower ones are tagged MR2891AR08G. The new ones are MR2891AR20GN. I spoke with GPM in person and they said these are new compounds. Yes these hook up better than the old 8s out of the bag.

Is it possible that the MR2891AR20GN are the same as the PNs? Who knows.

GPM has matching fronts with these new compounds.

EMU
2006.04.05, 04:55 AM
GPM has a new tire that has the same tread pattern as the old 8s. These tires are wider and fill up the whole rear wheel. The compound is softer and stickier. It has some sort of compound applied to it as it feels wet out of the bag. The header card on the old narrower ones are tagged MR2891AR08G. The new ones are MR2891AR20GN. I spoke with GPM in person and they said these are new compounds. Yes these hook up better than the old 8s out of the bag.

Is it possible that the MR2891AR20GN are the same as the PNs? Who knows.

GPM has matching fronts with these new compounds.
Sounds like they could possibly be the same tire :o

Notice how this tire ends in MZ-R08G-Q (it has a new tread compared to the older ones)
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/shop2/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=62_98&products_id=1433

The tread that they have in stock in the Kenon store for the other 8's also is different tread from what we got at the track. The ones at the track were tread B, while the ones in the Kenon store are tread C.

Slipstream
2006.04.05, 05:30 AM
Sounds like they could possibly be the same tire :o

Notice how this tire ends in MZ-R08G-Q (it has a new tread compared to the older ones)
http://www.rckenon.com/public_html/shop2/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=62_98&products_id=1433

The tread that they have in stock in the Kenon store for the other 8's also is different tread from what we got at the track. The ones at the track were tread B, while the ones in the Kenon store are tread C.


I was told the new GPM compound is available in different tread patterns. The "C" pattern is the one with a V in the middle. The "B" pattern has a rib in the center with diagonal, slightly curved grooves going from the center to the outside. Correct?

MagicMan
2006.04.05, 12:46 PM
I was told the new GPM compound is available in different tread patterns. The "C" pattern is the one with a V in the middle. The "B" pattern has a rib in the center with diagonal, slightly curved grooves going from the center to the outside. Correct?

I have seen these groved tires that you are talking about in the sticky compound that I've been mentioning. Basicaly what me and EMU have noticed, is that if the tire is shiney and wet looking, it is the newly released compound/treated rear tire. If it isn't, it's the old 8's that need sanding/breaking in. I'm fairly certain that anything you pickup online that's packaged Kenon, will ship with the shiney wet tire (new kind).

I don't know the name for those tread patterns... I'll see what I can dig up if EMU doesn't get back to you :)

EMU
2006.04.05, 12:48 PM
Kenon stocked only the tread C before. And lately the shop I race at had the tread B stocked, so they had to go through the stock to the latest tires they received...

briankstan
2006.04.05, 12:58 PM
I also like the GMP 8's on all 4's. I just ordered some of the new ones and I'll see how they compare. Thanks for the Heads up.

byebye
2006.04.05, 01:42 PM
How long do your Kenon 8 rears last for you? I've noticed that at least for me they lose grip after the newness wears off. I'll throw some on tonight and see again. This is also right after the newness wore off.

I've used duct tape to clean them up but they don't seem to repell the dust like they do when they are new.

Also, how do you maintain your tires, say after a day of racing and or before the next big day of racing?

-Byebye

EMU
2006.04.05, 01:48 PM
The newer tires are still grippy after the tread starts to wear down. We race at a large track, with alot of sweeping turns... so tire wear is multiplied from what it would be on a smaller track. Normally a set of rears is good for about 2-3 race nights before it should be switched to a new set, although I have gone 4 race nights with the newer Kenon tires, and have no plans to swap them out yet.

As for tire maintenance, I have seen alot of people clean them between each heat with simple green... I dont really do anything with the tires. Maybe use sandpaper to clean them a little before a race, but I just run them as they are... I dont want to be suspected of using traction compound if I am seen cleaning them with something like simple green or another cleaner :rolleyes:

byebye
2006.04.05, 01:59 PM
The newer tires are still grippy after the tread starts to wear down. We race at a large track, with alot of sweeping turns... so tire wear is multiplied from what it would be on a smaller track. Normally a set of rears is good for about 2-3 race nights before it should be switched to a new set, although I have gone 4 race nights with the newer Kenon tires, and have no plans to swap them out yet.

As for tire maintenance, I have seen alot of people clean them between each heat with simple green... I dont really do anything with the tires. Maybe use sandpaper to clean them a little before a race, but I just run them as they are... I dont want to be suspected of using traction compound if I am seen cleaning them with something like simple green or another cleaner :rolleyes:

I've found that the Stafford track her in the UK is dusty but not to the point that traction is an issue. The past two races thier I've ran Kyosho 20 deg rear tires. I'll have to post up some pics but they are the same wide tire that comes with the MA-010 chassis set.

For maintenance here at home I don't do much. I keep my track really clean, grip is high and I've noticed that after a few laps the tires look cleaned. There is noticable wear and surprisingly the tires are very durable.

For maintenance at the track I've actually only twice used the tape and that was during the OLPS. The track was dusty and the clean clean tires gave me the hole shot. The last time I didn't have the tape and just went at it. I know how passionate you guys feel about the kennons and I feel the same about these K tires.

I think that traction compounds shouldn't be outlawed. MagicMan said it best..."BETTER driving will yield to MORE consistant driving. Practice makes perfect."

-Byebye

imxlr8ed
2006.04.05, 03:44 PM
Suspensions can be tuned to accept higher degree tires, if the rear is not hooking up... it doesn't always mean it's the tires causing it. It could be anything from the dampening rates to type of H-plate. I run my tires to near nothing all the time (near paper thin) and the car usually runs near the same all the way through them. I rarely buy tires, I think this is a great advantage for the Z as opposed to other scales. I've never used traction compounds either, and I don't really see the need to.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that, if a car has a tuned suspension setup, you should be able vary your degree of tire up or down a bit, with hardly any noticeable effect. If I was to put it to a ratio... I guess I'd have to say, 40% tires... 60% setup.

Examples:

Spring rates on the front of the car can make a set of 8s run like a set of 20s, especially if my front end is lowered.

If my diff is too tight, my cars going to push more in the turns when the rear tires hook up.

If I'm running too hard of a plate, and it allows for no side to side on the rear, it's going to be hard to get any tire to hook up.

I can only explain what I have experienced... I can also say that I save a bunch of $$$ not having to buy new tires all the time. When I first started out, I was buying a new set of tires almost every month, Now it seems to be maybe once every 4 or 5 months.

briankstan
2006.04.05, 03:50 PM
Track temp can also play a big factor in the setup of the car. On a cold track you won't get the grip that you would otherwise.

bolter9
2006.04.05, 04:27 PM
looks like some posts were deleted here?

MagicMan
2006.04.05, 04:28 PM
A little insight of my experience... I bought a brand new Mucrielago ready set for my X. She rarely drove it. (twice literally) I decided to get a disc damper (PN multilength), and a Speedy BB 05, and 8 deg tires front and rear.

This car... without suspension/bearings/kingpins/h plate...... ran like a DREAM.

So I'd have to say tires are actually... 70% of the cars handling characteristics... 10 of that percent is with a damper to keep the rear planted. The rest of the 30... is setup.

Now as for actual output of the car... 80 driver 20 car.

Just my opinions. Well at least at the tracks that I run at, I find it this way. I too can run the car down to the bone on the tires. But I don't like doing that because there is less circumference. I don't mind letting the fronts wear down. It acts as low profile tires on a car. More instant handling.

Reguardless, you can really get a fully bone stock Mini-Z to handle great with just a set of tires. I believe they are actually most important. However in real world, it's a whole different story. I believe that a cars suspension is a bit more important than tires.

briankstan
2006.04.05, 04:46 PM
Now as for actual output of the car... 80 driver 20 car.


A truer statement has never been spoken.

MagicMan
2006.04.05, 04:50 PM
A truer statement has never been spoken.
:D :)

bolter9
2006.04.05, 05:09 PM
A little insight of my experience... I bought a brand new Mucrielago ready set for my X. She rarely drove it. (twice literally) I decided to get a disc damper (PN multilength), and a Speedy BB 05, and 8 deg tires front and rear.

This car... without suspension/bearings/kingpins/h plate...... ran like a DREAM.

So I'd have to say tires are actually... 70% of the cars handling characteristics... 10 of that percent is with a damper to keep the rear planted. The rest of the 30... is setup.

Now as for actual output of the car... 80 driver 20 car.

Just my opinions. Well at least at the tracks that I run at, I find it this way. I too can run the car down to the bone on the tires. But I don't like doing that because there is less circumference. I don't mind letting the fronts wear down. It acts as low profile tires on a car. More instant handling.

Reguardless, you can really get a fully bone stock Mini-Z to handle great with just a set of tires. I believe they are actually most important. However in real world, it's a whole different story. I believe that a cars suspension is a bit more important than tires.

Pretty obvious that tires have the most affect, considering that they're the only element touching both the track and your car. Same goes for real cars, motorcycles, bicycles...whatever. You can't tune anything else properly (including suspension), if you don't have your tires dialed in.

On a side note (since you seem to have alot of experience with dampers), do you know if the Atomic disk damper will fit the PN MM alloy motor mount? Thanks!

Shaun
2006.04.05, 05:18 PM
You simply cannot properly tune your car if you don't first have the only surface between your chassis and track dialed in (tires).

Couldn't agree more. :)

That's why I have one full Plano case just for tires. They really are a large part of tuning a Mini-Z. A good selection of tires is crucial for racing.

imxlr8ed
2006.04.05, 05:37 PM
Oh... wait a minute, I'm not trying to say that if you get the suspension setup right, you can just run stock tires on a MiniZ... no, you have to at least be in the 8s - 20s (tire degree range) to run on an RCP. I just think that if traction compounds are used to maintain a level of handling with a certain car, if it needs that much traction to get around, something might be up with the other aspects of it.

I run most of my cars as near as stock as possible now... I have to admit that those guys at Kyosho got it real close out of the box ! Just ashame they put those hard tires on them from the factory ! :(

gasman1
2006.04.05, 07:32 PM
I run very worn 8s on my MR-01 on the front and new 8s on the rears for traction. The worn tires help eliminate the traction roll problem with the 01s, along with lowering the front end.

I have found that the thing that can mess your car up the most in handling is the diameter of the front tires being different. This became most apparent racing in the point series. Racing in both directions.

Either you have to swap the tires side to side when you change directions or make sure you keep the diameter of the front tires the same. I have found the tire that wears the most is the outside left since we race mostly clockwise. The loading on that tire at the end of a long straight tends to wear that tire more than the right side.

I have a box of used tires I use to bring my car back to where I want it when I need to match track conditions. Track temperature definately affects grip. Where we race the building heat is not always on when we get there and the surface changes as the room heats up.

I agree that clean consistent driving is the key to doing well when you race and is a major percentage of the car/driver combiation.

Car setup is a very personal thing. What works for you might not be hell for the other guy because everyone's driving style is different. Sure there are people with similar styles but as long as you can get your car to handle and be competative, your on the right track. imxlr8ed and I run pretty well but we can't drive each others cars for crap. Neither is wrong, just different.

bolter9
2006.04.05, 07:39 PM
Car setup is a very personal thing. What works for you might not be hell for the other guy because everyone's driving style is different. Sure there are people with similar styles but as long as you can get your car to handle and be competative, your on the right track. imxlr8ed and I run pretty well but we can't drive each others cars for crap. Neither is wrong, just different.

I certainly agree with that- some people prefer more understeer, some prefer more oversteer...same with punchy vs. linear exceleration/deceleration. Any minor alteration in these areas can make a car really difficult to drive compared to what someone might be used to.

jason barnes
2006.04.05, 10:38 PM
hey guys , tire size changes gear ratio also . just thought i'd throw that in . ..........jb.

MagicMan
2006.04.06, 01:43 AM
I certainly agree with that- some people prefer more understeer, some prefer more oversteer...same with punchy vs. linear exceleration/deceleration. Any minor alteration in these areas can make a car really difficult to drive compared to what someone might be used to.

In the end, there is a certain art to a certain setup that will always be the most efficient for carry speed and maximum steering, (tight lines and speed through those lines) that will always win. You may find someone with a fetish for understeer, and you may find someone that likes the rear coming out a bit. But there is an equilibrium that is key that will always be perfect and best. Once it comes to 'that' point, then it is at that time that the driver then has to conform his style to get used to that car.

When that is done, and you have 2, 3, 4 people of that nature on the track, it's a beautiful thing. You'd almost think you are watching ESPN racing. I know because I'm a part of this with some of my partners. It feels like you are controling 4 cars simultaneously. INSANE

I thought weight lifting got your endorphins going, but man, I didn't think this would compare.

bolter9
2006.04.06, 02:24 AM
But there is an equilibrium that is key that will always be perfect and best. Once it comes to 'that' point, then it is at that time that the driver then has to conform his style to get used to that car.


I dissagree- in real racing, driver's always make tweaks to their cars to cater to their personal driving styles- they wouldn't do this if it didn't make them faster. Same goes for RC cars. Sure if the basics aren't down, then no one will be fast on a particular car, but we're not talking about making sure your tires have air, we're talking about minor tweaks to cater to driving styles.

Take F1 for instance- arguably the team cars are the same mechanically, but it's common knowledge that each driver's car is set up to cater to his own preferences in regards handling- and with that, they're expected to turn equal lap times.

MagicMan
2006.04.06, 02:34 AM
I dissagree- in real racing, driver's always make tweaks to their cars to cater to their personal driving styles- they wouldn't do this if it didn't make them faster. Same goes for RC cars. Sure if the basics aren't down, then no one will be fast on a particular car, but we're not talking about making sure your tires have air, we're talking about minor tweaks to cater to driving styles.

Take F1 for instance- arguably the team cars are the same mechanically, but it's common knowledge that each driver's car is set up to cater to his own preferences in regards handling- and with that, they're expected to turn equal lap times.

But there are winners and losers. I'm sure you know what I'll say next ;)
These are Mini-Z's not real cars. I think in a real car setup is more important. I'd like to someday take you to a track where I race at and have you race my murcielago. Just to hear your input. Because you can only say so much from wondering. Experiencing is a whole new world.

Any chance you'll ever race out in NY? LOL :D

bolter9
2006.04.06, 02:43 AM
But there are winners and losers. I'm sure you know what I'll say next ;)
These are Mini-Z's not real cars. I think in a real car setup is more important. I'd like to someday take you to a track where I race at and have you race my murcielago. Just to hear your input. Because you can only say so much from wondering. Experiencing is a whole new world.

Any chance you'll ever race out in NY? LOL :D

I think you're taking all this a bit too far.

byebye
2006.04.06, 02:46 AM
I think the point here is that 9-10 it's best to use the most stickiest tires out there. And just about anything thats 8deg is gonna do well on the track.

MagicMan we are only in the 4th month of the OLPS. It's a free to submit times and you get ranked nationally. You may want to consider getting your LHS on board especially if the owner is such a pickler about rules. It's definately worth looking into.

-Byebye

imxlr8ed
2006.04.06, 09:27 AM
I contacted Al last year about HFAY... said he wasn't interested. :(

But then again, with all I'm hearing now about what's going on up there... :o

briankstan
2006.04.06, 09:30 AM
I think the point here is that 9-10 it's best to use the most stickiest tires out there. And just about anything thats 8deg is gonna do well on the track.

MagicMan we are only in the 4th month of the OLPS. It's a free to submit times and you get ranked nationally. You may want to consider getting your LHS on board especially if the owner is such a pickler about rules. It's definately worth looking into.

-Byebye


That's a great Idea. If you say you are the fastest out there it would be nice to back it up with actual times. you might even be shocked when you see the times that everyone is running. You might be the fastest with your group of guys but how do you/them compare to everyone else out there.

The tracks are on the smaller side (2 wide L's) to maximize participation. Throw some laps down and back up your claims with some time slips. it couldn't hurt, could it? We would love to have you join in.

MagicMan
2006.04.06, 03:07 PM
That's a great Idea. If you say you are the fastest out there it would be nice to back it up with actual times. you might even be shocked when you see the times that everyone is running. You might be the fastest with your group of guys but how do you/them compare to everyone else out there.

The tracks are on the smaller side (2 wide L's) to maximize participation. Throw some laps down and back up your claims with some time slips. it couldn't hurt, could it? We would love to have you join in.

If you guys are talking about me, sure! I'd love to get into it. When I get around to it, I'll probably end up doing it with EMU, because I don't actually own the Mini Tile 96.

EMU
2006.04.06, 03:17 PM
If you guys are talking about me, sure! I'd love to get into it. When I get around to it, I'll probably end up doing it with EMU, because I don't actually own the Mini Tile 96.
Or you could possibly set it up in Jersey, with Sai, KC, Roland... and all get timed on a layout ;) Then do a race on that layout :D

The Mini-tile track has less competitors, so it would be nice to use 2 Wide L tracks and set it up. Here are the layouts http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/howfastareyou/Time_trials.html

imxlr8ed
2006.04.06, 03:45 PM
C'mon down to DOW ! We are running HFAY on the 23rd !

briankstan
2006.04.06, 03:53 PM
you wouldn't need to have the whole club run it. it would be nice though. basiclly you just need 2 wide L's and some sort of practical timing system. Though I think everyone is using the Core system.

Hopefully you guys (Magicman, EMU) can join in sometime.

gasman1
2006.04.06, 03:55 PM
I've seen Magic drive at the regionals in NY last year. He is for real. :eek: Still would be nice for you guys to lay down some times and get involved with the HFAY.

briankstan
2006.04.06, 04:00 PM
I've seen Magic drive at the regionals in NY last year. He is for real. :eek: Still would be nice for you guys to lay down some times and get involved with the HFAY.


I'm not doubting his skill. I'm just trying to motivate him to compete.. :D We want the best talent competing in the HFAY. No we want everyone to compete...Call it a continuing National ranking system... The more people that compete and submit times the more accurate the rankings are. I'm in the middle right now, but I have only been doing this of a year now. I'm planning on moving up as my skill grows.

The great thing about the MZR Fourm and threads like these. they provide lots of information and very helpful tips on how to set up a car for what every your preference is.

I appreciate all the info the Magicman has posted here in the last week or so. They are all great reading and very informative. Great Job.

gasman1
2006.04.06, 04:10 PM
I agree with you completely. There's a bunch of guys from that group that are really fast. A few of them were at the Worlds last year. The more the merrier! :D

bolter9
2006.04.06, 04:38 PM
I've got the mini 96, but not a real accurate timing system. My M11 has a timer, but it's manually activated by a button push on each lap...which isn't really a guaranteed lap time.

I wouldn't mind competing in HFAY just to see how I stack up- I've competed in a couple larger races and had no problems driving on pace. But I really have nothing to prove...for me, this hobby is just one of a handful of diversions from "grown up" responsibilities- However, MagicMan does have something to prove since he says he's the fastest and smartest :p Let's see your times bud!!

imxlr8ed
2006.04.06, 05:33 PM
We're all just a bunch of ball breakers... aren't we ! :D

We at HFAY want to find the best !

I hope all who talk it... can walk it ! (and not be poor sports if they falter !)

Right now I guess my nephew is the fastest driver out there (well, if you go by the points right now)... and he doesn't even go in the forums ! (then again, I know his english skills are lacking ! :p )
Lucky us... we get to deal with his trash talking week in, week out ! :rolleyes:

bolter9
2006.04.06, 05:58 PM
We're all just a bunch of ball breakers... aren't we ! :D

well what did you expect?? :p guy shows up on an rc race car forum and starts droppin' lines about how fast he is and why...no one here is going to take that lying down! we're all racers, we want proof! :D

(Magic, I'm just having fun with ya, you've posted some good stuff, even if it's not necessarily ground breaking, it's nice to have it organized like you've done.)

michvin
2006.04.06, 06:40 PM
Speaking of HFAY, where can i see the times that are posted? I haven't found the link to them on the site....

MagicMan
2006.04.06, 07:28 PM
I've got the mini 96, but not a real accurate timing system. My M11 has a timer, but it's manually activated by a button push on each lap...which isn't really a guaranteed lap time.

I wouldn't mind competing in HFAY just to see how I stack up- I've competed in a couple larger races and had no problems driving on pace. But I really have nothing to prove...for me, this hobby is just one of a handful of diversions from "grown up" responsibilities- However, MagicMan does have something to prove since he says he's the fastest and smartest :p Let's see your times bud!!

I never uttered the words that I'm the fastest and smartest. But I'm flattered you think so! :D

I race for fun. I don't compete, maybe that's why I win most of the time? Because I'm not pressuring myself.

Anyway, thanx a lot for the compliments on the threads. Organization is another talent of mine LOL :p

hobbycar
2006.04.06, 07:46 PM
Speaking of HFAY, where can i see the times that are posted? I haven't found the link to them on the site....

Internet Explorer version of the How Fast Are You site: http://www.howfastareyou.com/

Firefox version of the How Fast Are You site:
http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/howfastareyou/howfastareyou.html

My understanding is that briankstan is hosting and updating the site.

-hobbycar

gasman1
2006.04.07, 06:48 AM
Hey guys, since well worn 8s are very important to my MR-01 Don't throw them out send them to me! I'm not kidding. Just PM me. ONe mans junk is another man's treasure :D

Thanks

briankstan
2006.04.07, 09:27 AM
Speaking of HFAY, where can i see the times that are posted? I haven't found the link to them on the site....


HFAY Points Series (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/howfastareyou/points_series.html)

Just click on the link above. Select the Event (the first 3 are completed) and scroll down the page. all the times are posted.

the point standings are listed on that page also, just follow the links.

the march results I added the club that the racer belongs too. it also shows how many laps, and the time it to for them to be completed in the 8 minutes races.

imxlr8ed
2006.04.07, 11:26 AM
Hey guys, since well worn 8s are very important to my MR-01 Don't throw them out send them to me! I'm not kidding. Just PM me. ONe mans junk is another man's treasure :D

Thanks

LMAO... You worn tire whore ! :D :p

Yes... he's serious ! The more worn, the better !

gasman1
2006.04.07, 11:48 AM
LMAO... You worn tire whore ! :D :p

Yes... he's serious ! The more worn, the better !


who you callin a ho? :D I am serious! Last night the inside edge of the the front rim was higher than my tire.

imxlr8ed
2006.04.07, 12:16 PM
who you callin a ho? :D I am serious! Last night the inside edge of the the front rim was higher than my tire.

I know... I'm just kidding with you ! I told you, you should just put a few layers of tire tape on it, and run it like that ! :D

gasman1
2006.04.07, 12:49 PM
I know... I'm just kidding with you ! I told you, you should just put a few layers of tire tape on it, and run it like that ! :D


is that legal?

michvin
2006.04.07, 03:04 PM
HFAY Points Series (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/howfastareyou/points_series.html)

Just click on the link above. Select the Event (the first 3 are completed) and scroll down the page. all the times are posted.

the point standings are listed on that page also, just follow the links.

the march results I added the club that the racer belongs too. it also shows how many laps, and the time it to for them to be completed in the 8 minutes races.
Thanks!
I haven't realized that they are clickable :) I understand fast, if explained slowly sometimes :D

hobbycar
2006.04.08, 09:23 AM
FYI, I just raced with the Atomic AW 10 degree tires in the rear last night again and they worked great. No issues with rear end stick. Now I have to find a way to get the front end to stick better.

They do wear a little bit. I think they will last 3-4 race nights before needing to be replaced.

-hobbycar

EMU
2006.04.08, 12:24 PM
I tried a set of rear AW 10's last night (I have tried them before and never liked them much so they have been sitting in my bin of parts), and couldnt get them to hook at all. I would probably have to use a harder front compound, as I only changed the rears on a modified Enzo and left 8d fronts on. Of course, each specific RCP track has different grip levels, and the layout will also have a different demand for grip as well. (A more technical layout will reduce the speed, less speed less need for as much grip).

I later threw on a new set of GPM 8d, not the gummy ones, and the rear grip was MUCH better after a few laps. The Atomic tires have already been broken in, the GPMs needed to be. I am going to try the Atomic tires on a different setup. I feel that there is too much fold over on the Atomic tires, similar to the issue that F1 tires have when you use 10d rears. I would think that as they wear out they would get more grip. I used to have that issue with the old Atomic 10d standard grooved tires, and never got them to hook up well.

I still feel that the best bang for buck in tires, are the TopCad tires. Under $4 for a full set that will have good balance, and good grip overall.

I have tried the new 3Racing AWD tires. And for the AWD front, it is pretty good. They have a low profile, which will take away from some of the squirmy ness. It also benefits for wheel clearance under the body. They do not have as much grip as the PN 18, but for AWD they are plenty. I set my AWD up with 3Racing 10 front/GPM 8d rear and it handles well. I am going to try a rear set of the 3Racing tires on the AWD and see how it does.

MagicMan
2006.04.08, 02:02 PM
I tried a set of rear AW 10's last night (I have tried them before and never liked them much so they have been sitting in my bin of parts), and couldnt get them to hook at all. I would probably have to use a harder front compound, as I only changed the rears on a modified Enzo and left 8d fronts on. Of course, each specific RCP track has different grip levels, and the layout will also have a different demand for grip as well. (A more technical layout will reduce the speed, less speed less need for as much grip).

I later threw on a new set of GPM 8d, not the gummy ones, and the rear grip was MUCH better after a few laps. The Atomic tires have already been broken in, the GPMs needed to be. I am going to try the Atomic tires on a different setup. I feel that there is too much fold over on the Atomic tires, similar to the issue that F1 tires have when you use 10d rears. I would think that as they wear out they would get more grip. I used to have that issue with the old Atomic 10d standard grooved tires, and never got them to hook up well.

I still feel that the best bang for buck in tires, are the TopCad tires. Under $4 for a full set that will have good balance, and good grip overall.

I have tried the new 3Racing AWD tires. And for the AWD front, it is pretty good. They have a low profile, which will take away from some of the squirmy ness. It also benefits for wheel clearance under the body. They do not have as much grip as the PN 18, but for AWD they are plenty. I set my AWD up with 3Racing 10 front/GPM 8d rear and it handles well. I am going to try a rear set of the 3Racing tires on the AWD and see how it does.

This is some great advice on tires. Good stuff EMU.

will3kgt
2006.04.15, 01:41 AM
I used the AWD 10 degree tires and they hook up quite nice.

SaiTam
2006.04.19, 10:09 AM
I won the stock race (4/8/06) (Magic was in it too) using the AW10 rear tires. I switched to GPM 8 last week and I lost due to the rear having too much grip(Understeer). On the front I have Atomic 20s.

THe AW10 tires are good for my stock car, their grip level is perfect for my driving preference. I don't need too much grip in rear since the track I race at has very high traction already.

I had also used the AW10 with Atomic 20 front in Hong Kong (RCMMS Carpet). They worked great.

I use TOPCAD tires for my modified cars though.

will3kgt
2006.04.21, 05:32 AM
I'm going to use AWD 10s on the back and regular Atomic 10s on the front at the Ann Arbor GTG tomorrow.

gasman1
2006.04.21, 06:50 AM
does anyone know what degree the stock AWD tires are? or if you can buy the stock ones and where

arch2b
2006.04.21, 09:40 AM
does anyone know what degree the stock AWD tires are? or if you can buy the stock ones and where
byebye found they were listed in the documentation as kyosho 20's. david has them on order (rear tires that is....)

mini-z champion
2006.04.21, 02:53 PM
I never uttered the words that I'm the fastest and smartest. But I'm flattered you think so! :D

I race for fun. I don't compete, maybe that's why I win most of the time? Because I'm not pressuring myself.

Anyway, thanx a lot for the compliments on the threads. Organization is another talent of mine LOL :p


""... that's why I win most of the time."
how do you come to this conclusion? :rolleyes:

MagicMan
2006.05.04, 12:30 PM
""... that's why I win most of the time."
how do you come to this conclusion? :rolleyes:

Unfortunately I'm not the one that comes to that conclusion. The lap counters do. :p

builthatch
2006.07.04, 01:37 PM
Unfortunately I'm not the one that comes to that conclusion. The lap counters do. :p

pulling this thread outta the grave- i see some of you recommend TOPCAD tires; i run the Kenon 8's and they wear like butter. I'd like to investigate maybe a more affordable alternative. Where are you all getting these and what degree assortment is avail?

byebye
2006.07.04, 03:04 PM
pulling this thread outta the grave- i see some of you recommend TOPCAD tires; i run the Kenon 8's and they wear like butter. I'd like to investigate maybe a more affordable alternative. Where are you all getting these and what degree assortment is avail?

The only tires I'll ever use from here on out is the Kyosho 20 wide rear tire. It has a wider contact patch than any other tire I've used. They also have medium wear.

-Byebye

builthatch
2006.07.04, 04:52 PM
The only tires I'll ever use from here on out is the Kyosho 20 wide rear tire. It has a wider contact patch than any other tire I've used. They also have medium wear.

-Byebye

but byebye, what about fronts! i wear those out like none other....do you run kyosho 20 fronts?

byebye
2006.07.04, 06:17 PM
but byebye, what about fronts! i wear those out like none other....do you run kyosho 20 fronts?

I was running kyosho 30 fronts, round not the flats. I didn't have to glue or tape either of them. I could run a consistent line. If the track is dusty though the tires don't grip well up front so I get a lot of understeer. I've since glued on GPM 8 fronts, treaded type.

-Byebye

gnehcoel
2006.09.06, 02:36 AM
first, let me say, I am fairly new to the hobby. i started 2-3 months ago and have not tested all different alternatives or combinations. so i need some advice from the Pros...

Do you need different tire setup for AWD vs 01/02?

I have AWD and am running a set of atomic d20 (front) and a set of GPM d8 at the back. I think they are really smooth (for a beginner). I only run my car on RCP tracks (I would say medium technical). i run it on 2 degree knuckles (front and back). any other tires combination you would suggest i try?

lastly, thank you all for sharing all your knowledge and experience. i learnt a lot =)

byebye
2006.09.06, 02:42 AM
I say if it works for you then stick with it. The awd can run 20s all around and still be decent in stock trim.

I'd stick with a lower degree in the rear and mainly change the front degree based on the track(fast or slow).

-Byebye

gnehcoel
2006.09.06, 06:10 PM
I say if it works for you then stick with it. The awd can run 20s all around and still be decent in stock trim.

I'd stick with a lower degree in the rear and mainly change the front degree based on the track(fast or slow).

-Byebye


Thanks "byebye"

Yeah, my setup is very smooth right now with the stock motor. Just need to improve on my driving skills. I guess at my "beginner's" level, the tire should not matter too much as long as i have enough grip and the car is not jumpy ...

Z_408
2006.11.14, 01:14 AM
Has anyone tired the new batch of PN rear 8's? They do not seem to stick as well as the last batch. Anyone else notice the same thing?

Z_408

EMU
2006.11.14, 01:17 AM
Yep. I havent had any luck with them lately. They just wash out really easily.

Lionblade
2006.11.14, 09:27 AM
I have them too. They're definitely worse, but the new 8 degree fronts are just horrible. :(

benmlee
2006.11.15, 01:22 AM
Has anyone tired the new batch of PN rear 8's? They do not seem to stick as well as the last batch. Anyone else notice the same thing?

Z_408

So is not just me. Thought they slide much more than before. Although the person I was running with also just got his PN rear 8s last weekend, and they worked fine for him. I think the compound is softer than before. You have to run them at a high slip angle to generate the same traction, so I am basically drifting thru the turns. Not what I am after in a race.
They were still way better than the latest batch of GPM Radial A 8 from overseas. Those were worst than stock tires. Tried scrubbing with alcohol. It would run great for one lap, then they slide out again. Feels like the compound had too much silicon in it. Funny thing was the previous batch of radial A had so much traction I had traction rolls.
Guess is the luck of the draw on buying tires. Do you feel lucky :)

arch2b
2006.11.15, 06:12 AM
this is very disturbing in the sense that it's becoming a crap shoot as to what you will get in terms of consistency even from one manucaturer. has anyone complained to them?
honestly, if there is no consistency, it makes it nearly imposible to even recommend tires much less buy them for yourself. this is bad for us all in the end in my opinion.

Lionblade
2006.11.15, 09:18 AM
this is very disturbing in the sense that it's becoming a crap shoot as to what you will get in terms of consistency even from one manucaturer. has anyone complained to them?
honestly, if there is no consistency, it makes it nearly imposible to even recommend tires much less buy them for yourself. this is bad for us all in the end in my opinion.

And at $5 per pair, it's not exaclty nice to buy 10 sets of tires and find them all to be crap. :(

arch2b
2006.11.15, 09:34 AM
i agree. i would certainly check into returning unsed/unopened qnty.

it could be a bad batch of the material that was not caught in qc?

we do have 'ask pn' and 'ask gpm' subforums so this could be a good opportunity to inquire about possible material mixture changes.http://mini-zracer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54

benmlee
2006.11.15, 07:45 PM
i agree. i would certainly check into returning unsed/unopened qnty.

it could be a bad batch of the material that was not caught in qc?

we do have 'ask pn' and 'ask gpm' subforums so this could be a good opportunity to inquire about possible material mixture changes.http://mini-zracer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54


I emailed the vendor, and was told the vendor would forward the issue to GPM. I am not holding my breath on the refund. Getting the right tires might just be part of the game. Rubber suppliers expect millions of parts, quality control on a small lot is just not their priority. I know from experiance in aerospace where we only order a few parts. QC in Chinia is not good to begin with. I had been pretty happy with quality on past PN parts. The other store in Hong Kong sells tires at a dollar a set, I read about complaints on the forum. I use them for practice tires, and am just taking my chances with them.
Regardless, is hard to show is the tires and not the chassis at fault. I know the GPM tires are slippery because I got the chassis to work good with the last batch. As soon as I put the new tires on, the car swap ends in corners. I put the worn out tires back on, and it was fine.
The current chassis set-up may not be optimized for PN tires. There was lots of changes since I last used the PN tires, so it could be the chassis not optimized for the tires. I thought it was just my set-up, but I see others having similar experiance. Maybe a bad batch of tires at PN.

I have all these left over Radio Shack VEX robot parts laying around the house from the competition my friend got me to join. I was ready to get rid of it, but had an idea. It could be used to build a tire testing machine. I will mount the tire on the robot, run it down the RCP track and measure traction force. There are some bugs to work out, but I should be able to measure tire characteristics, slip angles, traction etc and figure out which is the best tire to use. That is a long topic... to be continued.

hobbycar
2006.11.15, 09:19 PM
I've always been interested in the PN/GPM 8s everyone raves about but was a little concerned once I heard different people starting to have consistency issues. I did try some old GPM8s that were pretty good.

But recently I've been using the Kyosho Radial 20s and love them. It's the only tire I use for real races right now.

Another interesting thing with the Kyosho Radial 20s is they come in "Semi-Wide" which fit more fully on the narrow front wheel rims. If you do try this, you do have to check the tire clearance more carefully as they stick out farther than the "Narrow" tires.

-hobbycar

benmlee
2006.11.16, 07:38 PM
Update on tire issue.
Got an email from GPM that they would replace the tire for me. They asked me to send the tires directly to them on their UPS account. Needless to say I am very happy with their service.
I just tried the PN 15 and 18 front tires, they worked great. Good traction and precise handling. No complaints there.
I never tried Kyosho ones. I will try those next. I would not be surprise if Kyosho have the same consistency issue. They are probably all made in similar places oversea.

builthatch
2006.11.16, 08:27 PM
Update on tire issue.
Got an email from GPM that they would replace the tire for me. They asked me to send the tires directly to them on their UPS account. Needless to say I am very happy with their service.
I just tried the PN 15 and 18 front tires, they worked great. Good traction and precise handling. No complaints there.
I never tried Kyosho ones. I will try those next. I would not be surprise if Kyosho have the same consistency issue. They are probably all made in similar places oversea.

no way. the kyosho stuff, even when made in china, has 100% better QC than the other companies, for sure....

whomever is contracting the factories Kyosho uses is doing a great job vs. the other companies.....i would not be surprised if they are simply doing so much volume that they can afford/keep the same factories going to keep consistency.

hobbycar
2006.11.16, 09:13 PM
no way. the kyosho stuff, even when made in china, has 100% better QC than the other companies, for sure....

whomever is contracting the factories Kyosho uses is doing a great job vs. the other companies.....i would not be surprised if they are simply doing so much volume that they can afford/keep the same factories going to keep consistency.

I agree with builthatch. It has been my personal experience that Kyosho parts tend to be consistently high quality. And this seems to be shared experience/perception among many users in this Forum. The one thing is you tend to pay a premium for the Kyosho parts.

-hobbycar

benmlee
2006.11.17, 01:17 AM
I agree with builthatch. It has been my personal experience that Kyosho parts tend to be consistently high quality. And this seems to be shared experience/perception among many users in this Forum. The one thing is you tend to pay a premium for the Kyosho parts.

-hobbycar

Hop-up Kyosho parts might be good quality, but some stock Kyosho parts are questionable. The plastic H-plate and motor mount was tweaked. 3 Racing H-plate helped, but car was still spinning out one way. Finally with PN motor mount and 3 racing plates, car went straight as an arrow. The stock servo gear was of absurd quality. The amount of freeplay was totally unacceptable until I upgraded to delrin gear. Then the king pin had so much friction knuckle could hardly move. Aftermarket one did magic in solving it. Though I am sure a Kyosho one could have done the same too. The plastic drivetrain gears wore out fast.

Ninja
2006.11.17, 12:04 PM
back on the subject of tires. I ordered some new wheels for my 02 this past week and decided that new tires were in order for this racing season, and yes I mean season. I usually leave the same tires on for the whole season for consistancy. We race from Oct. through March here at our club. Last year I ran the Mclaren F1 MM car. I gave the body away at the end of last season to a young boy who bought a new GT and didnt like the way the rounded front allowed the front tires to be pulled off when he scrubbed the wall. Anyways, I bought a new Autoscale for racing this season, and decided to return to an RM setup. I bought PN 8g rears and PN 18g front. which is what I ran last year. the 8g rears are so soft and sticky that if you compress them flat together, they stick that way for a few seconds. They are also wider and fill out the entire wheel as opposed to the GPMs I have ran in the past, which left a 1mm lip on the rim. The 18g fronts were way too soft. Suprised the hell out of me too! I had to swap around and find a set that works. In the end I used 25g slicks, flipped inside out, and glued on the inner edge on the front. Flipped right side out these tires were no better than stock, but flipping them out was a different animal. They got so much traction after flipping them out that they would push over the inner lip of the rim and lock against the chassis. So glue was needed. Before the night was over I had the car dialed in to no return. I am using an 01 rear motor pod, Hard H-plate, 01 stock gear diff, 7T pinion, front susp consisted of Tagu 1* caster upper plate, yellow (stock) springs, 1.25mm susp limiter, 1* toe-in tie rod, and 1* camber alloy knuckles. The body is the Motul/Pitwork Nissan Skyline GTR. The wheels are aluminum PN wheels, +1 offset front, and +3 offset rear. The actual offset for this car should be 1.5 front and 2.5 rear, but they didnt have those options available. If I can find my Digi-Cam then pics will be posted. Untill then it is all Imagination :D

byebye
2006.11.17, 02:39 PM
I still don't understand why people don't run the Kyosho 20 wides. They are the only tire I'll ever buy for the rear.

-Byebye

Ninja
2006.11.18, 12:54 AM
1) cost
2) availability

byebye
2006.11.18, 02:46 AM
1) cost
2) availability


http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=17521&cat=278&page=2
$5.99 for a pack of 4 plus $4.35 priority shipping

$10.34 for 4 tires shipped
$2.59 per tire

Rckenon GPM 8 degree wide rear slick
$3.99 for a pack of 2 plus $6.55 priority shipping
$14.53 for 4 tires shipped
$3.63 per tire

I'm not sure about availability because I don't know how many mini-z has in stock. The numbers are straight from both websites with the same shipping method.

-Byebye

Ninja
2006.11.18, 11:14 AM
thanks for the info byebye, when I said availability I meant that everything i need to order is usually on the kenon site. and IF i can find everything on the tinyrc shop it usually shows out of stock. I know I could e-mail David, but thats just a hassle, and a wasted 2 days in e-mailing when my parts could be already shipped from a different seller.

benmlee
2006.11.18, 07:33 PM
http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=17521&cat=278&page=2
$5.99 for a pack of 4 plus $4.35 priority shipping

$10.34 for 4 tires shipped
$2.59 per tire

Rckenon GPM 8 degree wide rear slick
$3.99 for a pack of 2 plus $6.55 priority shipping
$14.53 for 4 tires shipped
$3.63 per tire

I'm not sure about availability because I don't know how many mini-z has in stock. The numbers are straight from both websites with the same shipping method.

-Byebye

The Kyosho price is very reasonable. The lowest cost tires is still overseas. GPM Radial tires are $1.19 per pack, but shipping hurts you. Buying in quantity of 8 packs, you end up with $1.21 per tire. There has been complaints about them, but I find the tires to work fine for me. Other than this time, but they are willing to exchange them. I will see. I am not an expert that can tell the difference between good and just a little better tires, so all tires are the same to me :)

Ninja
2006.11.19, 02:49 AM
the ones on sale for $1.19 per pack are the batch that GPM messed up on the entire batch of rubber and were getting all the compounds wrong, what you buy at that sale is completely random and un-reliable.