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View Full Version : 98mm Conversion kit??


Mazda787b
2006.06.11, 08:44 PM
I read about a 98mm conversion kit which allowed for wide offset wheels and bodies such as the McLaren F1. I can no longer find the thread, does anyone care to shed some light on thei subject?

lfisminiz
2006.06.11, 09:02 PM
Pn has it out now. Its adapters that make the chassis 98mm. It has longer spur gears with to match up. It also comes with the lay down crystal adapter to fit bodies better.

Mazda787b
2006.06.11, 09:40 PM
Just what I needed! I thought it was a Kyosho Item. Thanks alot!

NismoRocks
2006.06.12, 04:46 PM
i have a question about it
wouldnt the 98mm bodies be too wide for the awd?

sciencemike
2006.06.12, 05:24 PM
98mm is the length of the wheelbase not the width. So no 98 mm is the perfect fit for a lot of the nice bodies like the Mclaren, Lambo Murci, Enzo, and best of all the Pan Car...

machine
2006.06.12, 05:49 PM
and with the low down crystal mounts it work with those bodies.

Mazda787b
2006.06.12, 06:59 PM
What about super-wide offset wheels? I heard the wide rears aren't so good on the MA010.

SaiTam
2006.06.12, 07:12 PM
I used the extension kit and won the NY Regional event yesterday. The kit definitely helped stability and performance since I lapped everyone in the race easily. I also had a chance to drive PN's demo car and it too was awesome with the extension kit. The MA-010 should've come as a 98mm standard but the 90, 94mm confirguration helped Kyosho to sell more of those old/narrow bodies. My RTR weight with the kit was 7Oz.

Mazda787b
2006.06.12, 07:31 PM
Well, congratulations! Were the AWDs put in a seperate class, or with you with the 'traditional' racers?

lfisminiz
2006.06.12, 08:00 PM
Glad to hear you got your awd kickin! :eek: :D

lfisminiz
2006.06.12, 08:23 PM
What body did you run? How did your lap/time compare to the other classes.

SaiTam
2006.06.12, 11:09 PM
I used a modified Corvette body that accepts 98mm wheelbase. Best lap time was a hair faster than MR-02 stock. I ran with other MA-010 cars only, there were 90 and 94mm cars in the same race.

lfisminiz
2006.06.13, 08:32 PM
Thanks for info. :)

NismoRocks
2006.06.14, 10:38 PM
i was asking if there was a problem with width because the 98mm bodies are generally wider than 94 or 90mm and i was guessing you would need a wide offset

Nightcargo
2006.06.15, 03:29 PM
SaiTam,

Congrats on the win! Can you tell us any more on your setup? Motor, FET, Camber, Toe, do you use alloy parts? Thanks!

SaiTam
2006.06.15, 05:33 PM
Fr/Rr Gear diffs; 19/27T gearing; titanium screws; PN AWD stock motor; stock FET; 1.5F/3R camber; Front gold Atomic springs; rear stock black springs; Corvette body; F20/R8 tires. No almuminum parts except heatsinks and extension kits. Stock dogbones front/Kyosho alu. ones in rear. Lowered with one plastic shim on each corner.

Nightcargo
2006.06.20, 12:55 PM
Thanks for the reply and congratulations again!

pchan0
2006.06.22, 11:30 AM
Fr/Rr Gear diffs; 19/27T gearing; titanium screws; PN AWD stock motor; stock FET; 1.5F/3R camber; Front gold Atomic springs; rear stock black springs; Corvette body; F20/R8 tires. No almuminum parts except heatsinks and extension kits. Stock dogbones front/Kyosho alu. ones in rear. Lowered with one plastic shim on each corner.

SaiTam,

Just wondering if you have a ENZO body that you can try and put it on the AWD with the 98mm PN conversion? Just wanted to know if when the front suspension compresses would hit the body? The top knuckle part.

Thanks alot.

ruf
2006.06.22, 11:59 AM
It definitely hits with the Mclaren. I shaved a little less than 1mm off the top of the "kingposts" and it's fine now. It is flush with the top cover at full down travel and it hits the body just as the suspension reaches the uptravel limit under compression. I will try the Enzo after work today if SaiTam doesn't get back to us by then.

byebye
2006.06.24, 04:52 AM
So is anyone else having mash problems with the stock diffs and the extended gear? I noticed that the 29 gear doesn't look like it was machined on center so one side doesn't mesh as well. I ran it with the murci body and it ran excellent but under hard acceration or from reverse to forward it will slip for a sec. The overall fit is good it's just the gearing. I bought the full extension kit pack.

-Byebye

pchan0
2006.06.24, 09:44 AM
Hey Byebye,

Any chance of some photo of your ride with the 98mm conversion? I should receive mine next week so can't help you on the mesh problem yet. Sorry.

:)

So is anyone else having mash problems with the stock diffs and the extended gear? I noticed that the 29 gear doesn't look like it was machined on center so one side doesn't mesh as well. I ran it with the murci body and it ran excellent but under hard acceration or from reverse to forward it will slip for a sec. The overall fit is good it's just the gearing. I bought the full extension kit pack.

-Byebye

byebye
2006.06.24, 11:40 AM
I have to make a switch but I'll take some pics on a different chassis.

-Byebye

marc
2006.06.24, 03:01 PM
Hello, I posted a FWD conversion a while back. Thanks to the AWD chassis, I can design a new rear system for useing a Honda Insight body if I can find one.

SaiTam
2006.06.25, 01:02 AM
Never tried the Enzo myself. My Corvette's rear is shaved so that it takes 98mm wheelbase. I have good results with it.

SaiTam,

Just wondering if you have a ENZO body that you can try and put it on the AWD with the 98mm PN conversion? Just wanted to know if when the front suspension compresses would hit the body? The top knuckle part.

Thanks alot.

sciencemike
2006.06.26, 02:46 AM
I have been running this conversion, and im having a bunch of trouble with the longer spur gear coming off the driveshaft. It seems to do this way too much. Im running the front 3 racing one way and the atomic rear ball. The mesh is perfect. Im just wondering if the one way is causing stress in the driveline. Im also using the stock driveshaft and the upgraded delrin front pinions. I can say these are so very nice. The toothing is perfectly smooth in the rear and the front.

As for your question, byebye, this might sound simple, but i found that when the pinion pressure is tight on the motor pinion and the spur gear, i found that it can tighten the contact with the diff, alternatively when you get a loose connection between the pinion and the spur gear you can loosen it up just a bit (the way i like to run it, aka less binding). Its kinda like the spur gear when in this long configuration will be like a long arm of a fulcrum and a little tweek can really mess with the connection.

Nightcargo
2006.06.26, 07:34 AM
I hard a horrible mesh on the spur and diff. I was using an Atomic Rear Ball Diff, Kyosho Ti Drive Shaft, and the supplied 98mm 29t Spur. If I was lucky it would mesh half the time. I shimmed the gear side of the Atomic Diff and now all is well. I had perfect mesh with this Diff and the Kyosho Spurs. I don't know if the Spur was the problem or the longer arm of the Spur made the slighly loose Atomic Diff even more a problem.

Other than that, the PN Extension is awesome. The alloy extenders are top notch, nice fitting and looking. My car has so much PN Alloy it looks like an add. It's heavy, but really sticks and handle well. I'll post pics later today.

byebye
2006.06.26, 10:21 AM
Thanks guys it looks like I'll have to shim it up to get a good mesh.

-Byebye

SaiTam
2006.06.26, 01:28 PM
Pics of my car:

http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/data/500/medium/aIMG_5136.JPG

http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/data/500/medium/aIMG_5135.JPG

http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/data/500/medium/aIMG_5133.JPG

http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/data/500/medium/aIMG_5129.JPG

Nightcargo
2006.06.27, 09:21 AM
After some more laps I am running into major problems with the the Extension. The problem is with the long spurs. They seem to to slide the the drive shaft. I don't know if this is because the Atomic Ball Diff is not quite thick enough to provide pressure on the whole drivetrain allowing the spur alittle room to move eventually making the spur strip or the spurs are just too soft. Either way it is pretty disappointing. PN makes some great stuff, it may just be the diff causing the slop. I will need to get more parts and trouble shoot some more. I wish we could get the Kyosho Ball Diff so I could test with it.

ruf
2006.06.27, 09:59 AM
Kyosho ball diff isn't available yet, but I'll bet it does the same thing. I know it also skips with the Kyosho gear diff. I am about to glue it onto the shaft.

Nightcargo
2006.06.27, 11:03 AM
Hey Joe,

I just did two sets of batteries with the Kyosho stock diff and the spur stayed in place. I did get a really bad grid noise when going from reverse to forwards, but at least I was able to finish until batty exhaustion. Maybe a paper shim on the gear side of the stock diff will stop this slip. Got to go to work now, I'll test again tomorrow.

damian
2006.06.28, 04:58 AM
After some more laps I am running into major problems with the the Extension. The problem is with the long spurs. They seem to to slide the the drive shaft. I don't know if this is because the Atomic Ball Diff is not quite thick enough to provide pressure on the whole drivetrain allowing the spur alittle room to move eventually making the spur strip or the spurs are just too soft. Either way it is pretty disappointing. PN makes some great stuff, it may just be the diff causing the slop. I will need to get more parts and trouble shoot some more. I wish we could get the Kyosho Ball Diff so I could test with it.

Do you have the same problem if you use the standard Diff of Kyosho?

ruf
2006.06.28, 08:28 AM
As we both mentioned, the stock Kyosho gear diff still skips and grinds at times, but it's not as bad.

Oddly enough, we superglued the spur onto the shaft of a 98mm Diablo that was running Atomic ball diffs and it worked great. Best running car of the weekend imo. Be careful though.

pchan0
2006.06.28, 03:04 PM
As we both mentioned, the stock Kyosho gear diff still skips and grinds at times, but it's not as bad.

Oddly enough, we superglued the spur onto the shaft of a 98mm Diablo that was running Atomic ball diffs and it worked great. Best running car of the weekend imo. Be careful though.

Mine was bad too, damn. I will just wait for the Atomic spur gears as they look beefier and just use PN's side mount.

ruf
2006.06.28, 03:09 PM
My solution: find the gear ratio you want, disassemble the rear end (so you don't get glue everywhere), and superglue the spur to the shaft. Spur gears are a wear item. You will have to replace them eventually anyways.

sciencemike
2006.06.28, 03:31 PM
Mine was bad too, damn. I will just wait for the Atomic spur gears as they look beefier and just use PN's side mount.

Arent you selling yours? ????


Ruf,

Great tip tried it out last night.... i used parafin wax tape (Parafilm) on the end and pressed it on with a vice, it "can" come off but wont without some elbow grease.

What needs to happen for this whole thing to work better is a small bearing for the outside of the spur gear just before it connects to the diff. Thats the way my super-z car is. It makes sure you dont have lateral load on the spur gear with a large lever arm.

Nightcargo
2006.06.28, 03:39 PM
I've got the fix!

The problems are with drivetrain tension, there is none. I shrink wrapped the Atomic Ball Diff on the gear side (see pic one). Three layers should give you proper thickness. This gives tension down the whole shaft. No more loose spur, and also helps on the grinding.

Next is side load tension. With mine no matter which diff I used (Atomic Ball or Kyosho Stock Geared) I had slippage (gears grinding) when going from forward to reverse. There just wasn't enough tension holding the diff gear flush with the spur. I used a fiber washer ground down to proper thickness (about two pieces of paper thick). This fabricated shim should be placed between the chasis bearing holder and the bearing on the gear side of the diff.

I did three sets of batteries with this set up. Everything worked perfect. Then I drove too deep into a turned and smacked the wall pretty hard and rolled. When the wheels hit the ground again I only had front wheel drive. This rollover stripped the inside key of the spur gear. I used a 1/16 drill bit a used a small screw to fabricate a set screw (see pic below). Several more sets of batteries and all is awesome!

Hope this helps.

Spoon
2006.06.28, 03:50 PM
The first two pics are a little blurry, I can't really see what you are talking about. Could you try the macro function or back off on the zoom a little bit?

Also, which wheels are those on your Mclaren? I am getting a Trueno body and those are the closest to the actual Trueno wheels that I have seen. Not really the same but better than dish wheels. :D

EDIT: Wait, I see the screw that you are talking about in the 2nd pic.

byebye
2006.06.28, 03:53 PM
Mine was bad too, damn. I will just wait for the Atomic spur gears as they look beefier and just use PN's side mount.

Sorry I never took pics. It ran like poo. What a ****ty product. It's still no comparison to the mr-02. Pretty neat running the ma-01 with the lambo but not worth the hassle IMO.

I put it together. Noticed the crappy mesh. Ran it then found a stress fracture in the chassis up front, that cracked off and I haven't touched a mini-z since. The MA-01 is a royal PITA and I thought the 98mm conversion kit would make it all better.

-Byebye

pchan0
2006.06.28, 04:19 PM
Arent you selling yours? ????

If it gets sold, great. If not, I can wait for the Atomic gear and see how it is again.

I've got the fix!

Wow, that's one expensive Mini-Z AWD. Any option parts you still need to buy? :cool:

ruf
2006.06.28, 04:25 PM
I was going to try the set screw next. Good work!

As for all that shimming, check your drivetrain. It may feel like toothpaste.

byebye - hold off on that judgement. We've got some interesting data from this past weekend. The MA010 needs work, but you're talking about a chassis with <6mo of true competitive development time. The MR02 has had 5 years of dev for us to get it to this point.

byebye
2006.06.28, 04:34 PM
I was going to try the set screw next. Good work!

As for all that shimming, check your drivetrain. It may feel like toothpaste.

byebye - hold off on that judgement. We've got some interesting data from this past weekend. The MA010 needs work, but you're talking about a chassis with <6mo of true competitive development time. The MR02 has had 5 years of dev for us to get it to this point.

I hope you can find a solution. I think the only solution is a full swap of ma-01 parts to a CF lower CG chassis. The MR-02 does have more time proven but notice little to no one runs the mr-01. Another point to make is the MR-02 is unchanged since it's debute in 2002(?). It's the best hands down out the box 1/28th scale chassis Kyosho has made and I really really hope you can find a solution.

I know I bashed it(which I didn't in my own initial review :o ) but I can drive mine well and I think it's the kind of chassis you can't just hand to a new driver like the MR-02.

-Byebye

ruf
2006.06.28, 04:53 PM
I hope you can find a solution. I think the only solution is a full swap of ma-01 parts to a CF lower CG chassis. The MR-02 does have more time proven but notice little to no one runs the mr-01. Another point to make is the MR-02 is unchanged since it's debute in 2002(?). It's the best hands down out the box 1/28th scale chassis Kyosho has made and I really really hope you can find a solution.

I know I bashed it(which I didn't in my own initial review :o ) but I can drive mine well and I think it's the kind of chassis you can't just hand to a new driver like the MR-02.

-ByebyeDo you mean MA-010? Getting confused with the "mr-01" and the "ma-01" references. Yes the stock kit handling leaves a lot to be desired. This past weekend on a MONSTER of a track, the MA-010 was about 0.2s quicker than the MR02 with non-FET motors. The acceleration of the MA-010 out of the corners was far greater than the MR02. You really had to watch your exit line to make sure you didn't drive up someone's butt.

Fastest laps from memory (I will check the printouts later):
MR-02: 11.6x sec
MA-010: 11.4x sec
F1: 11.4x sec

If you can believe it, we were circulating this track in the mid-11's with non-FET motors.
http://www.hircr.com/IMSR2.jpg

byebye
2006.06.28, 05:02 PM
I was actually refering to the MR-01 basically was phased out because the mr-02 replaced it. The mr-01 was replaced with the MR-015 but retained the high COG. I have one of those too and it runs like poo without proper setup. And the MA-01 was the first mini-z AWD but again retained the high COG. Most cars need proper track time for setup. I know you've spent a lot of hours on that.

The MA-01 is very fast for stock. With the right setup it is a rocket. I know this and have already won a race with it and ran nearly identical times to my proven MR-02 Mclaren. It's just too time consuming for me right now. I just wish I could throw it around like the mr-02.

-Byebye

Nightcargo
2006.06.28, 05:20 PM
They didn't look blurry (pictures) when I cropped them, I don't know what happened. I'll reload some.

Spoon those are Atomic TS wheels. They have them at the shop here.

@Joe: The drive train feels fine. The only real shim is between the chassis and the one diff bearing.

As far as the shrink wrapped diff. If you look at the diff it is not a perfect circle. So it would only hit the twice per revolution. Now that the set screw is working so well I can get rid of the shrink wrap.

ruf
2006.06.28, 06:03 PM
Nightcargo - that's good to know. The side shim will tighten up the gear lash, but I've been trying to loosen the gear lash this whole time. I've got a mod that makes the car run MUCH freer. Will post soon.

byebye - I'm understanding now. I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes. There are some issues that are absolutely fatal with the MA010. Once those are addressed, the car becomes much less finicky.

In case anyone wants to know:

Fastest lap:
MR02: 11.67s
MA010: 11.44s
F1: 11.46s

SaiTam
2006.06.29, 10:36 AM
For the lap times above, did your MR02 or F1 have upgraded FETs? The MA-010 maybe faster because it has 3010 FETs.

Spoon
2006.06.29, 10:41 AM
MR02: 11.67s
MA010: 11.44s
F1: 11.46s

Any info on average lap times? That's what wins the race
:D

Night Cargo, thanks for the info on the wheels, I may pick some up...

briankstan
2006.06.29, 11:38 AM
my only real complaint with the MA-010 is the cost involved with setting it up to race. There are more parts and pieces to buy to get it to run the same, or a little faster than the MR-02. Add that to the fact that it cost more up front and you have to add more to it, to get it in race trim, it defeats the purpose lots of people get into the Mini-z's. Great performance for a great price.

The MA-010 is great as play around or drift car right out of the box (with the right tires, of course) so it's a great car depending on what you want to do with it and how much you want to spend on it.

from my experience

the MR-02 setup is $200 +/- (including the RTR)
the MA-010 setup is $300 + (including the RTR)

ruf
2006.06.29, 01:31 PM
Saitam - the MR02 and the F1 were running 3004 FETs. The speed did not come from power, but the ability to put the power down. Once you address the issue of the MA010 losing out in corner speed, the car is just plain faster. Keep in mind that this is on a big track where the MR02 can stretch it's legs/drivetrain.

Spoon - I agree completely. But outright fastest lap shows the ability of the chassis. That being said, Cristian won his race with the MA010, the MR02 driver was in second place, and I won my F1 race. Cristian is just flat out a better driver than me and his lap times rarely rose into the 12's. I was in the mid-12's, and high-11's, and I just got lucky with an inch-perfect lap. Everything was neat and tidy on that lap. These times were recorded during races, not single-car time trials. Race management also played a role. A wreck costs me at least 2-3 seconds, and a lap or two to get my rhythym back. Unless I am defending or attacking, I will usually dial it down a notch.

briankstan - inflation is a @#$%&, ain't it! :p I have a customer that wants me to put together a basic racer package for the MA010. It should just be bearings, ball diffs, springs, tie rods, and tires. All in all, the MA010 isn't as hopup-intensive as people make it out to be. Want and need are two separate things altogether. ;)

sciencemike
2006.06.29, 02:04 PM
Nightcargo - that's good to know. The side shim will tighten up the gear lash, but I've been trying to loosen the gear lash this whole time. I've got a mod that makes the car run MUCH freer. Will post soon.


A couple of things... First i loosened my gear interaction by using a polisher on the back bearing holder. That opened up the bearing hole a bit. Then i slid the bearing over a hair and epoxied it back in. It seems that a fraction of an inch allows the drivetrain to spinn much smoother. No toothpaste as byebye said. I also put in the ceramic large diff bearings and driveline bearings. Much much smoother as well.

Secondly i tried out the screw pin holder. I like to keep the teeth of my pinion and spur not tight but a little on the loose side, so my spur would pop off in about 2 minutes of driving. After the screw fix (thanks nightcargo) there were no problems ever. Just remember to get your screw nice and close to the edge. Also, be very careful about stripping the spur gear screw hole the plastic is soft..

Lastly, Saitam, i think you are right about the fets... The larger fets allow less resistance and allow the 010 to get that torque it needs to speed out of those corners... We'll see when we start upgrading those 02's to 3010's. I think the biggest difference is that the 02 is a single purpose car and is designed to be raced out of the box, while the 010 is a dual purpose car race, drift, and is more OTB drift ready than anything else.

ruf
2006.06.29, 04:09 PM
Just some more background info on the 3004 vs. 3010 FET issue. We have actually run tests back to back with a FET and a non-FET board MR02 with a non-FET motor in the hopes of getting rid of these silly FET classes. There is a small increase in punch with the 4562 FETs over the standard 3004. It is an advantage that a good driver can exploit, but nothing like the holeshots and the drive out of corners that you get with the AWD. This gap only gets bigger as you increase power.

I too was of the opinion that the MA010 was a basher's car when it came out. It definitely has its flaws, but its potential is impressing me more and more.

sciencemike
2006.06.29, 05:06 PM
Hey ruf,

Whats the highest camber you have run on your awd's.. Sorry for the off topic.

ruf
2006.06.30, 09:20 AM
I run the Kyosho plastic 1.5 degrees. Cristian runs the PN alloy 1.5 in the rear and 2.0 in the front I believe. We had an issue with the replaceable delrin sleeves for the PN knuckles last weekend. One worked its way off during a race. Needless to say the car handled like crap after that. We found the sleeve and glued it to the knuckle. Nice concept in the ability to replace the sleeves for maintenance, but they need to stay on a little better.

madf1man
2006.06.30, 10:13 AM
I,ll post my opinions on the 98mm kit once I get it installed. hint hint

ruf
2006.06.30, 10:18 AM
I can drop it off to you this weekend if you would like. Too bad the track isn't open... hint hint.

madf1man
2006.06.30, 10:28 AM
Sorry no track this weekend, I,ll be in the wind! Give me a call when your in town

Nightcargo
2006.07.06, 03:07 PM
I got this thing working without grinding or slipping but it just sounds like crap. The mesh is just not right. I hope Atomics spurs are better, the PN alloy is top notch, but the spur is just junk. I'm thinking about trying out the MR02 so I can run 98mm stuff.