PDA

View Full Version : HFAY OLPS Season 2 manual released soon


hobbycar
2006.06.12, 09:50 PM
The How Fast Are You - OnLine Point Series (http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/howfastareyou/points_series.html) - Season 2 manual will be released soon.

The next season starts in July and I hope we get good participation again.

I've learned so much and had so much fun racing against lots of different people/clubs around the country and even some from other countries.

A couple things have changed (the biggest things being the point system and the fact you get to drop your 2 lowest scores) but the major things haven't (stock motor, stock electronics, Mini-Zs/IWavers/Firelaps/XMods, minimum of 3 racers). But read thru the manual when it's released so you know all of the rules.

Big shoutout to Briankstan and everyone else involved in getting the first HFAY OLPS season up and running.

-hobbycar

briankstan
2006.06.13, 08:44 AM
anyone that needs any more information can contact me through the forums and I will answer any question that you may have.

I'm looking forward to the up coming season. Maybe I can improve my standings too. :D

imxlr8ed
2006.06.13, 12:23 PM
Here it is, let me know if I missed anything ! (I think I got it all... :o )

Page 8 is reserved for El'presidente's State of the HFAY address ! ;)

(I'll email you the Word version Brian.)

hobbycar
2006.06.13, 09:14 PM
imxlr8ed, did you want to make #8 more verbose?

Maybe something like:

Each participating club must have at least a minimum of 3 racers for each Main. Note: not all of the 3 (or more) racers need to have HFAY qualifying cars. For example: The Main could have 2 racers with HFAY qualifying cars and the 3rd racer uses a Mini-Z with FETs and mod motor. Of course the 3rd racer will not have his score submitted as part of the HFAY results for that race.


Other than that it looks good to me. Great job!


-hobbycar

Mazda787b
2006.06.13, 11:39 PM
Well I wasn't a big fan of V1 of the manual. However, I like this one a bit better (the drops, and revised points sytem, espically).

However, I do see a few things that may need to be addressed:

Submissions - It says that you need to submit your times by 10:00am on the first day of the following month. 10:00 am what? Eastern Time? Mountain Time? Daylight? Standard? GMT? With a world-wide event, you need to keep a standard deadline for EVERYONE. Keep in mind that not everyone observes Daylight Savings Time, it even varies by county to county or town to town in some areas!

Motors - I believe there should be a spec motor purchased through one dealer and numbered (Kyoshos through Tiny RC). It would take alot of the guessing out. The Xmod Stage 1, iWaver, and Mini-Z motors are quite diffierent. Heck, even the OL (and AWD) motors are rumored to have one less turn to speed the cars up a bit. It would make sure everyone was on a level playing field. You could even designate how many motors will be sold to one person per season, which would eliminate buying large groups of motors to pick out the "hot" ones.

Body Restrictions - "Big Wings and air dams" Do you mind elaborating? Are the Atomic-Type GT spoilers allowed?

Batteries - nimh only? What about people that run nicd? Or even more importantly, alkaline? I know when I'm in a pinch I will run alkalines. Everyone knows that they are 10x worse than nimh. They may have an initially higher voltage, but that drops down within a few laps.

Just my $.02 I will post here if I find anything else that may need claraification...

arch2b
2006.06.14, 05:11 AM
we are working on the spec motor.... fyi ;)

Mazda787b
2006.06.14, 07:26 AM
Cool beans. It would make things alot easier.

The support for xmods is nice, but nobody runs them. I guess they are just on their own RE: pinions.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 12:37 PM
imxlr8ed, did you want to make #8 more verbose?

Maybe something like:

Each participating club must have at least a minimum of 3 racers for each Main. Note: not all of the 3 (or more) racers need to have HFAY qualifying cars. For example: The Main could have 2 racers with HFAY qualifying cars and the 3rd racer uses a Mini-Z with FETs and mod motor. Of course the 3rd racer will not have his score submitted as part of the HFAY results for that race.


Other than that it looks good to me. Great job!


-hobbycar

It's a touchy subject... I would prefer that each race goes off with a full HFAY field, but I know this may be impossible at times for some. I think if you are going to do a fill run for a race, that car used should be HFAY regulation. Also... if one driver is not fully "invested" into doing his best, he might be tempted to pull over out of the way of the other cars... yes, it's the courteous thing to do, but it's not racing.

The whole matter is truly one that can be looked at from many different angles, If I ever had say, only 5 drivers show up for a race, I would be the one to drive the filler for the bottom 2 qualifiers. We've had some very deep discussions on this before, and the 3 number was arrived at with much thought.

Did anyone have to do a fill run for their club to date ? I don't recall seeing anyone talking about it ?

Consider the matter under investigation and discussion.

Thanks !

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 12:49 PM
Well I wasn't a big fan of V1 of the manual. However, I like this one a bit better (the drops, and revised points sytem, espically).

However, I do see a few things that may need to be addressed:

Submissions - It says that you need to submit your times by 10:00am on the first day of the following month. 10:00 am what? Eastern Time? Mountain Time? Daylight? Standard? GMT? With a world-wide event, you need to keep a standard deadline for EVERYONE. Keep in mind that not everyone observes Daylight Savings Time, it even varies by county to county or town to town in some areas!

Motors - I believe there should be a spec motor purchased through one dealer and numbered (Kyoshos through Tiny RC). It would take alot of the guessing out. The Xmod Stage 1, iWaver, and Mini-Z motors are quite diffierent. Heck, even the OL (and AWD) motors are rumored to have one less turn to speed the cars up a bit. It would make sure everyone was on a level playing field. You could even designate how many motors will be sold to one person per season, which would eliminate buying large groups of motors to pick out the "hot" ones.

Body Restrictions - "Big Wings and air dams" Do you mind elaborating? Are the Atomic-Type GT spoilers allowed?

Batteries - nimh only? What about people that run nicd? Or even more importantly, alkaline? I know when I'm in a pinch I will run alkalines. Everyone knows that they are 10x worse than nimh. They may have an initially higher voltage, but that drops down within a few laps.

Just my $.02 I will post here if I find anything else that may need claraification...

Submissions: Yes, correct, I will revise.

Motors: Working on it, but definitely not for this season.

Body Restrictions: Alot of discussion went into this, it means no huge, clunky, out of scale, or just plain out of whack wings or airdams. If you have a bought wing, and it is obviously for a 1/28th scale car, no one is going to tell you you can't use it. But if a driver shows up with the stupid idea that these cars drive so much better with a huge 6" wide lexan wing and a big long lexan nose wing for better aerodynamics... he's not legal. If it looks out of place for the scale of car it is... it's probably not legal. We also put this responsibility at the Judges feet as well, we all know what's fair, and I have trust in them all to do the right thing.

Batteries: Yep, nimh only... sorry ! :o

Keep them coming though... all good points so far !

briankstan
2006.06.14, 01:02 PM
Did anyone have to do a fill run for their club to date ? I don't recall seeing anyone talking about it ?

Consider the matter under investigation and discussion.

Thanks !

we haven't done a fill, but we have run with more than 3 cars in the field. remember 3 is the minimum #. we haven't run more than 4 though ;)

arch2b
2006.06.14, 01:58 PM
your stance doesn't really compell anyone to come forward if they have.... kinda like the rebuilding results discussion. it's well within the rules to do so however when mentioned it did nothing but draw ire from everyone.

fyi, we have had to use a filler in cases where a driver had to leave before the event was finished to fill out a grid or meet the min. we were careful to tell brian so those times were not included in the offical count. this has also happened when drivers were disqualified for having a non legal car. as typical with most events i've seen (mini-z cup), teching has been done afterward so this is how i approached it. we decided to keep the matter between brian and ourselves for that reason. obviously many of us have varrying views on some of the rules and or their use and the last thing any of us want is for our results to be tainted by misunderstandings or the such. just thought i would get that out there for better or for worse..... :o

if by chance we need a filler for whatver reason, if an hfay legal car is not available, i will continue as we have been for the last 6 month which has not caused any problems. and none of the fillers had ever thrown the race for the sake of the others. no reason to even have had them if they did in my opinion, you race or get off the track.

i apologize in advance if i offend anyone as i'm sure to upset atleast 1 person :( it's not personal nor intentional

arch2b
2006.06.14, 02:31 PM
just as ed mentioned..... there are some contentious subjects :p anytime you get large groupings of people involved in a single topic there are bound to be some. i think we all do a good job at trying to present them in a respectful manner and they eventually get resolved to everyones approval. couldn't ask for a better bunch of people :)

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 04:01 PM
I'm just curious if a filler run was done, we talked about it before and we all came to the conclusion that it would be beneficial for all the clubs.

I'm asking to get an idea of how much it has actually been utilized to see if it worth putting into our new manual. I know the majority of participating clubs have more than 5 competitors each event, so some might consider it to be a mute point.

Whadya think guys ? Modify it ?

If I do modify, here's what it will be:

A minimum of 3 racers must participate in each HFAY Main, if 4 drivers show, they must all race in the same Main, however, if 5 drivers show, it is permissible to run a 3 car Main (all recorded) , and a 3 car main with a filler driver (2 recorded, 1 unrecorded)... :confused:

You know what, I'm starting to think it should just stay the way it is... if you have 5 racers show, run a 5 car main... if you get 6, then you get to run two 3 car mains... I say this not to be dismissive, but in the attempt to keep this all as simple as possible.

arch2b
2006.06.14, 04:14 PM
i'm with ed, i vote for simplicity

there will still be cases where fillers are needed, such as the examples i used from our club.

i guess the point you get to is, do you clarify each and every point for every little thing down to the nats ass or leave some wiggle room inwhich your clubs judge will ahve to make calls which should be reviewed by the panel.

Spoon
2006.06.14, 04:28 PM
I think everyone that's in this really wants to play fair. I don't know any of you guys personally but I wouldn't suspect any of the judges of cheating. In the end that's what it comes down to...how much faith there is in the judges.

I say leave it as is and leave the minute details to the judges. If there is some contention on a rule then let the club rep bring it up in the judges forum. I think most of the actual participants probably won't even read the manual more than once.

Stock motor, stock electronics is really all they need to know (and probably care about). The judges, time keepers etc take care of the rest.

DC has run 1 maybe 2 races with fillers so it's a rare occurance. let's just keep it simple and uncluttered.

pinwc4
2006.06.14, 05:21 PM
As one of the judges for the Central IL group I did not realize fillers were allowed. For the May race I made us run 5 people in the main and the resulting race on such a small track was very chaotic for us. If we would have ran to 3 people races with 1 filler I am sure we would have posted faster times (not to say we are fast yet but it did negatively impact everyone racing with 5 cars on the track).

In regards to XMods, maybe we are the only ones but, we do have a couple of people that join us for racing HFAY OLPS races that have XMods. So it't not quite nobody.

arch2b
2006.06.14, 05:26 PM
to clarify, we did not use fillers just to keep mains to 3, they were a result of extenuating circumstances.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 05:46 PM
Ok, so I'll make it like this:

Each participating club must have at least a minimum of 3 drivers for each Main. Filler drivers are allowed to maintain the minimum amount of drivers for the Mains at the Judge's discretion. (Filler driver's data will not be counted)

Like I said, this can get a little nutty depending on how hyper-competitive the clubs are. We just have to be honest and fair. I doubt someone is going to say, have 4 drivers show, stick the top three in an A Main, then put two fillers in for the slower guy... that's pushing it. The whole idea is to race with a guy who is completely interested in passing you... not just pulling out of the way. If you're running at DOW... sometimes that guy is completely interested in putting you on your roof ! ;) Gasman and GTA are really fun to watch because they're in for trash talking rights over one another now ! :D It's either going to end in bloodshed or trash-talk for these two. :rolleyes:

(And I get stuck in the middle of it lately... I am now a speedbump for them :( )

(Then again, they could both tank it, and Onrailz could walk all over them ! ;) ... you never know !)

That's about as simple as we can make it for now, any other ideas ?

arch2b
2006.06.14, 05:51 PM
i am in the same boat, i just seem to be the speed bump for spoon, chuckyluv, kenontap, ccson and now soyverde

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 05:56 PM
New rule...

The HFAY Judge gets 10 bonus laps awarded to his time !!! :D j/k

Yayyyyy !!! :rolleyes:

hobbycar
2006.06.14, 08:02 PM
We've used a filler driver in the following circumstances: someone not having an HFAY qualifying car but still wanting to run in the Mains, 1 driver coming super late after we've already done the Mains for the other drivers (20 mins before I had to leave with the laptop :eek: ), having 5 drivers to split into 2 Mains with 3 drivers each.

I agree that there is a huge difference between running with 3 vs. 5.

-hobbycar

hobbycar
2006.06.14, 08:04 PM
New rule...

The HFAY Judge gets 10 bonus laps awarded to his time !!!

That's a new rule for season 2? I've been adding 10 bonus laps to myself for every race during season 1. jk ;)

-hobbycar

imxlr8ed
2006.06.14, 08:18 PM
Yeah, it's getting tougher and tougher to make some top times, but that's what I've been looking for this to do... must be working !

This next season is shaping up to be an exquisite showing of skill by all, we're all warmed up now, we all know what we gotta do to place well... and the tighter point system is just going to make it that much more interesting.

I'll release the final rev this Friday, so if anyone has other ideas... get them out there ! :D

Thanks again !

briankstan
2006.06.14, 08:45 PM
I'll release the final rev this Friday, so if anyone has other ideas... get them out there ! :D

Thanks again !


I received conformation on the prizes. I'll have the final page to you tomorrow.

Draconious
2006.06.14, 10:48 PM
Just incase I get one functional in the next month or two, I would like to see rules allowing my chassis ;)... using a Stock Racer motor of course, but I have to use standard servo/rx/esc, I will be using the Xray180 which isnt far from the Kyosho PCB I dont think.. at 3amps.

Dusty Weasle
2006.06.15, 04:18 AM
We’ve never had to do the filler thing at Mini-AZ, but with only 3-4 people showing week to week we’re on the ragged edge of being able to run at all.

Here’s my take on rule #8:
Minimum Field: Each Heat must start a minimum of three cars.
Field Fillers: Only if less than three legal cars are available may illegal cars be used to fill the field. Illegal cars are not scored.
If three or more legal cars are available, Field Fillers may not be used for splitting Heats.

Essentially if you have three or more legal cars, no using Field Fillers. Based on our old 3-5 rule, I would have run up to five cars in one Heat. I would not have run three, then two with one filler. Sadly we never had more than four anyway. I wish 15 drivers was my problem.

My electronics knowledge is low on the voltmeter, but I don’t understand the NiMh-only rule. Why exclude NiCd and Alkaline?

#17: I don’t think we need to prohibit clubs from posting their results before the close of the month. Heck, if they feel confident about their laps they could use it as smack-talk. We could just specify that OLPS will not officially post the results until the close of the month.

On the other hand, the suspense is fun.

#2: I’d suggest “by 10:00am (whatever Utah local time is)”.

I don’t know anything about Draconious’ Xray180, but if you guys think it’s comparable then I’m all for inclusion.

arch2b
2006.06.15, 05:05 AM
the problem with drac's car is that it's no different from entering a pro-z kit in my opinion. the chassis types are already selected and everything else are customs or aftermarket which are not acceptable. i don't see how you could allow drac's and then exclude others....

hobbycar
2006.06.15, 08:28 AM
the problem with drac's car is that it's no different from entering a pro-z kit in my opinion. the chassis types are already selected and everything else are customs or aftermarket which are not acceptable. i don't see how you could allow drac's and then exclude others....

Sorry Drac, I agree with arch2b. If we allow yours we'd have to allow the pro-z kit, etc.

In regards to the filler, again I think there is a big difference between racing an 8 minute Main with 3 racers vs 5. This is even more pronounced if there is a wide lap difference between the top person and the 4th and/or 5th racer. In the first set of races for season 1 we did 5 racers in the Mains and was one reason (but not the only reason) we didn't post great lap times.

So I still like the option of doing 3 & 2+1filler.

-hobbycar

briankstan
2006.06.15, 08:30 AM
#2: I’d suggest “by 10:00am (whatever Utah local time is)”.

Utah is MST (Mountain Standard Time)

the point is to have everyone get them to me early so If I have time I can post the results that same day.

Draconious
2006.06.15, 10:11 AM
maybe with the fillers, the filler can get some reward? give them motivation to actualy run rather then hide in the corners. :)

Maybe they get a half or quarter, or tenth... point for beating the other guy... this way they get rewarded for more participation... and maybe you can only be allowed 1 full point of filler points, and some one else has to do the filler after that... per series, or per race event. Going buy 10th points, gives a tie breaker potential, with out really giving a total point change.

My chassis is closer to a mini-z than a pro-z is... and it is definatly better than accepting the newer I waver... if you cannot accept my chassis then the newer I wavers should also not be allowed. My chassis is relative to the Kyosho chassis, setup simlar to the xmod chassis, and as retro and strange as the newer I waver... it is not a carbon sheet with a motor like the Pro-Z.

One limit could be the battery bay, if you have to solder to the batteries, its not legal... my chassis has a battery bay just like the mini-z and xmods... with power tabs and a cover... and it is possible to use a Kyosho ESC on the car... just a tight fit, and would require a standard servo mod to the wires. It would also have to be limited to using a stock motor, and be setup to accept autoscale or mini-z like mounted bodies...

I see my chassis being perfectly acceptable in the stock class... then again I also have mixed feelings about the Pro-Z, in a way it too should be acceptable... as long as its limited to stock motor and electronics etc... yet it just dont feel stock. My chassis design has a very stock look/feel to it...

And it dont really matter to me since its Xmods... but if no mods are allowed in the Xmods does that mean no addon parts that are made by radio shack either? :) Xmoders call them mods... so...

arch2b
2006.06.15, 10:25 AM
i still say no. no matter how much better you think it is than other aftermarket chassis's, it remains what it is, a custom/aftermarket chassis. very simple in my book. noffense intended...

any iwaver should remain acceptable as it's simply a new version put out by the company, no differnet than the awd or new kyosho kits coming. what causes concern is the new iwavers are fm based and currently the ad band is no acceptable so techincally, this shoulld apply to the fm iwaver as well?

the question about the xmods is pointless really. we established the stock elects and motor are to be used, any other chassis hop up should be allowed, same as mini-z/iwaver. i think your grabbing at straws or trying to make some point that has no relavance :confused:

no, no points for fillers. if they can't run for pride, they shoulldn't run at all. it's all about reputation for the clubs. if others found out fillers were sand bagging races it would not look good or reflect well upon that club. that should be enough.

Spoon
2006.06.15, 11:46 AM
We are trying to keep the rules as simple as possible and make it easy for anyone with a Mini-Z to compete. We are testing the driver's skills not the amount of money they can put into Turbos, hot motors, custom chassis etc.

No offense Drac but there is no way the judges could really make a decision on your car without seeing one first. Also, if there is someone buying your car there's a pretty good chance that they know about Mini-Z's already and they have a stock Z that can compete.

The fillers should not be scored, period. We had one case where we realized one of our younger drivers had a Fetted car and we just didn't include his laps for the submission. It was basically a post-race DQ. It's not like the kid even cares (he probably doesn't even know).

If someone is serious about putting their times up against everyone else in the world, they will run a legal car and hopefully play fair.

Draconious
2006.06.15, 12:00 PM
I dont expect you to accept it with out seeing it, but you should also not eliminate it, with out seeing it either. I have shown images of it in my avatar, unreveling ones, but still images of its basic shape.

Those I waver 02s the ones tower has been selling, are just as custom as mine is... they are no different than me selling a new version of my chassis... its just a new chassis. A mini-z with full alloy option parts is way more "custom", meaning changed, than my chassis is... it does not replace a mini-z it is another car, like the xmod is, like the mini-z is, like the awd is... like the mr02 mr01 is.. like the I wavers are.. just another car, it is not an upgrade or alteration kit, its a whole car.

My chassis has nothign to do with turbos and motors... its about the universatility, better suspension, less slop in the parts, easier to maintain by not having to buy or replace parts to change a setting... all the settings are built into the car.

If it is only about skill, then limit each race to one type of chassis... do not mix the MR02 with I wavers Xmods and AWD... having different cars to take a wack at the chance to drive better is just part of it, my chassis would just be one more car type to choose. Or is this a chevy only race? no fords allowed? ...

David (TinyRC - Mini-Z) has seen the chassis renders in better detail.

I do not expect it to be ready this seaons, but maybe next... and if it is not allowed I guess there is no point in offering one as a prize.

I by no means intend you to allow me to use my prototype versions... the production version is what I am refering too... the one that will be sold...

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 12:27 PM
This is Spec racing... We have to stick with cars that are accessible to all.

We are going to always have to include some type of new, mass produced version from the suppliers. We are also going to be dealing with the issue of the 3004 fets as opposed to the 3010 fets with the new Zs.

This is always going to be a matter of question, and it's going to keep coming up.

But I do have a simple answer... an Outlaw class for the Point Series.

Not this season, but maybe 2007.

This will be a true Outlaw series... all types, anything goes... only restrictions being a wheelbase and a tire rule. (rubber/silicone only)

Problem is... If there are less than 3 members in the club with Outlaw cars, that club won't be able to participate. Me and Gasman are the only racers in my club right now with modified cars, and it's almost pointless to race them against slower fillers. It never really shows the real performance of the car when you have to deal with slow traffic.

Right now, if you have a new chassis designed, some fusion reactor powered, titanium chassis with a fuzzy logic operated electronic stability control system... you should be running it on the Time Trials.

I'm surprised more one-offs aren't showing up on there... it is the perfect test for how fast and stable a new design can be. I guarantee, if you plant some hot times on there with an all new 1/28th scale design, people are going to want it ! (I'm surprised some haven't taken advantage of this already)

As far as something like that in HFAY Stock OLPS though... you pretty much know my side of it.

Affordability & accessibilty... that about sums it up.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 12:41 PM
We’ve never had to do the filler thing at Mini-AZ, but with only 3-4 people showing week to week we’re on the ragged edge of being able to run at all.

Here’s my take on rule #8:
Minimum Field: Each Heat must start a minimum of three cars.
Field Fillers: Only if less than three legal cars are available may illegal cars be used to fill the field. Illegal cars are not scored.
If three or more legal cars are available, Field Fillers may not be used for splitting Heats.

Essentially if you have three or more legal cars, no using Field Fillers. Based on our old 3-5 rule, I would have run up to five cars in one Heat. I would not have run three, then two with one filler. Sadly we never had more than four anyway. I wish 15 drivers was my problem.

My electronics knowledge is low on the voltmeter, but I don’t understand the NiMh-only rule. Why exclude NiCd and Alkaline?

#17: I don’t think we need to prohibit clubs from posting their results before the close of the month. Heck, if they feel confident about their laps they could use it as smack-talk. We could just specify that OLPS will not officially post the results until the close of the month.

On the other hand, the suspense is fun.

#2: I’d suggest “by 10:00am (whatever Utah local time is)”.

I don’t know anything about Draconious’ Xray180, but if you guys think it’s comparable then I’m all for inclusion.

The filler rule has been clarified a little more, it does include "at the Judges discretion". We want as many participants as possible... we don't want to exclude, but we also have to keep it as fair as possible. I know all of our Judges are putting forth their best efforts to keep this fair, and to keep drivers racing. Quite simply, I ask the Judges to use basic common sense as to what's fair in alot of their decisions. Trust is what this is all based on, and seeing the first season go by... I have no doubt you will all do the right thing.

Well... the battery rule is just an easy way out, but really, who doesn't run nimh ? I know some newbies might show with alkalines, just do what I do, throw them a few sets of nimhs to use for the day.

The delay for posting the results is just to remove any chance of someone trying to beat existing numbers... with this rule, it just removes any chance of that happening. (I doubt anyone would do it though.)

And yes... we will all set our clocks to mountain goat time ! :D

briankstan
2006.06.15, 12:42 PM
I do not expect it to be ready this seaons, but maybe next... and if it is not allowed I guess there is no point in offering one as a prize.

I by no means intend you to allow me to use my prototype versions... the production version is what I am refering too... the one that will be sold...


Drac,

We won't rule it out, but we would need to see the final production units prior to making the final decision. As long as your production run will be available to purchase and is a complete RTR, or chassis set. I guess we would have to make a decision at that point. The reason that we are allowing the Iwavers and Xmods, though they have what some would concider to be upgrades, they are all high production RTR's that are readily available to anyone. Althought we are not a true Spec class, we wanted to allow the largest # of people to compete and we do have to set guide lines for each specific car, as to not have complete caos.

I know you have designed it to fit all of the Mini-Z bodies, Racer and overland so I don't see that being a problem.

You can of couse use it to compete in the "open" class of the time trials to demonstrate it's capabilities.

For now we will leave it open and see how the final procuct turn out.

We all know that better equipment in the hands of someone that isn't skilled doesn't really matter, the better equipment in the hands of a talented drive can blow the rest of the field away.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 12:44 PM
Drac,

We won't rule it out, but we would need to see the final production units prior to making the final decision. As long as your production run will be available to purchase and is a complete RTR, or chassis set. I guess we would have to make a decision at that point. The reason that we are allowing the Iwavers and Xmods, though they have what some would concider to be upgrades, they are all high production RTR's that are readily available to anyone. Althought we are not a true Spec class, we wanted to allow the largest # of people to compete and we do have to set guide lines for each specific car, as to not have complete caos.

I know you have designed it to fit all of the Mini-Z bodies, Racer and overland so I don't see that being a problem.

You can of couse use it to compete in the "open" class of the time trials to demonstrate it's capabilities.

For now we will leave it open and see how the final procuct turn out.

We all know that better equipment in the hands of someone that isn't skilled doesn't really matter, the better equipment in the hands of a talented drive can blow the rest of the field away.

Hey... that's what I just said ! :p

(Well, somewhat)

briankstan
2006.06.15, 12:48 PM
Hey... that's what I just said ! :p

(Well, somewhat)

Looks like we were both typing at the same time....

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 01:18 PM
I will post the final, final, final rev, tomorrow sometime.

If anyone has other ideas about a 2007 Open class, let them be known.

Also... I would like to see an "under 16" race prize for the next series... maybe even this one. I will add it to the manual, I'll provide the prize. Being a kid at one time myself (some would argue I still am being one :p ), I'd like to see one of them get something out of this, give them something to shoot for. :D

Draconious
2006.06.15, 01:30 PM
On a similar note, you could also have a Most improved racer prize... compare the results of this season with next... who ever improves the most gets a prize ... ;) better times largest point gain, or something...

briankstan
2006.06.15, 01:31 PM
I would like to see an "under 16" race prize for the next series... maybe even this one. I will add it to the manual, I'll provide the prize. Being a kid at one time myself (some would argue I still am being one :p ), I'd like to see one of them get something out of this, give them something to shoot for. :D

that's how my wife feels. playing with toys? ha ha I don't think so. I keep telling her they aren't toys. :D

does that mean we will have to tell everyone how old we are/aren't? or does that go by the age we feel we still are? :p

it's a good idea to get some younger drivers started. I know that SRC has quite a few younger drivers in there club. it would be good for them to compete for.

pinwc4
2006.06.15, 01:34 PM
So I am a little confused on this chassis talk. If I were to upgrade the chassis of my Firelap from the chunk o plastic to something else this is not allowed? Even if I continue to use the stock electronics include the servo and a battery tray for my IC3's? I was actually hoping to do this for next season.

In regards to people running the current Iwaver 02( not the 02M with FM electronics or the old 02 that was a complete clone of the MR-02) this could be a problem. The chassis on it is a flat plastic plate that Iwaver provides a Carbon Fiber upgrade for. All electronics remain stock including the servo and battery tray. A couple of us in Central IL have done this upgrade to our Iwavers to get rid of the chassis tweak the stock plastic had that was causing serious handling problems. Is such a configuration breaking the rules?

In the case of Drac's car I do not see the problem if the electronics are stock. But I would include the servo within those requirements. A hobby servo setup is going to be better than the dink things that are integrated into the MR-02's.

Just my random confused thoughts.

Spoon
2006.06.15, 01:51 PM
On a similar note, you could also have a Most improved racer prize... compare the results of this season with next... who ever improves the most gets a prize ... ;) better times largest point gain, or something...

That's a good idea. Maybe we can get a sponsor to step forward for a prize. You know I would even chip in a couple of bucks for a young racer prize.

briankstan
2006.06.15, 01:58 PM
So I am a little confused on this chassis talk. If I were to upgrade the chassis of my Firelap from the chunk o plastic to something else this is not allowed? Even if I continue to use the stock electronics include the servo and a battery tray for my IC3's? I was actually hoping to do this for next season.

In regards to people running the current Iwaver 02( not the 02M with FM electronics or the old 02 that was a complete clone of the MR-02) this could be a problem. The chassis on it is a flat plastic plate that Iwaver provides a Carbon Fiber upgrade for. All electronics remain stock including the servo and battery tray. A couple of us in Central IL have done this upgrade to our Iwavers to get rid of the chassis tweak the stock plastic had that was causing serious handling problems. Is such a configuration breaking the rules?

In the case of Drac's car I do not see the problem if the electronics are stock. But I would include the servo within those requirements. A hobby servo setup is going to be better than the dink things that are integrated into the MR-02's.

Just my random confused thoughts.

can you get me some pitures? I'm not sure I know what you mean with these upgrades.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 02:05 PM
So I am a little confused on this chassis talk. If I were to upgrade the chassis of my Firelap from the chunk o plastic to something else this is not allowed? Even if I continue to use the stock electronics include the servo and a battery tray for my IC3's? I was actually hoping to do this for next season.

In regards to people running the current Iwaver 02( not the 02M with FM electronics or the old 02 that was a complete clone of the MR-02) this could be a problem. The chassis on it is a flat plastic plate that Iwaver provides a Carbon Fiber upgrade for. All electronics remain stock including the servo and battery tray. A couple of us in Central IL have done this upgrade to our Iwavers to get rid of the chassis tweak the stock plastic had that was causing serious handling problems. Is such a configuration breaking the rules?

In the case of Drac's car I do not see the problem if the electronics are stock. But I would include the servo within those requirements. A hobby servo setup is going to be better than the dink things that are integrated into the MR-02's.

Just my random confused thoughts.

It's a mass produced aftermarket part, built specifically by a manufacturer to upgrade a current chassis design ? You're not totally removing the other part of the chassis right ? I'm not too familiar with all of the Iwaver gear, but if it's what i think you're talking about... it sounds legitimate to me.

Maybe include a pic or a link ?

Using custom battery trays though... that doesn't work for the rules.

See this is where it gets interesting... but this is a mass produced part that I could order today if I wanted to... that's what makes it different from a one-off part.

If Kyosho comes up with a similar design... we'll be using it I'm sure.

Remember... and I say this to all of you... the key to this series is the the Stock board and Stock motor rule, that's 90% of the "spec factor" in all of this.

Hopefully it will soon be, Stock board, Spec motor... :cool:

Draconious
2006.06.15, 02:20 PM
What quantity counts as mass produced.. ? :) 100? 500 ? 10000000? Remember the big three pumping out special cars in minimum quantities so they could be stock cars ;)

Mazda787b
2006.06.15, 02:25 PM
All the iWaver CF chassis is a stiffer version of the plastic "plate" that is of a low-grade CF. It is comparable to upgrading the MA010 with the blue/grey chassis.

The Under 16 (maybe 16 and under ;) ) thing sounds cool. With nobody wanting to hire kids because alot of adults are out of work, money is getting pretty tight.

That's the funny thing about R/C... The people who have the time (kids) generally don't have the money. The people that have the money (adults) normally don't have the time.......

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 04:39 PM
Mass produced... ok.

Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have to be able to order it, have it show up at your door, put batteries in it, and be able to race it.

I don't care if it costs $300 dollars, it would have to be something along those lines. For instance... we just raced some of the 18th scale winter season at the Mushroom Bowl, everyone there had Xrays. 2 of my crew couldn't afford Xrays, so they raced HPIs. (Gasman ran an HPI and did excellent, but that's him. :rolleyes: ) Management had no problem with it, because they are mass produced cars.

Now... if you come out with a complete RTR or just a full chassis set (something I can put a body on, throw batteries and a crystal in and go), and it is available to order from here or wherever... then I don't have a problem with it. Sure, it might cost more than some could afford, but it is a full car, and it'll pretty much be a Spec starting point.

Now, if I have to buy electronics, wheels, motor mounts, motors... then that is a kit car, not a production version.

Think of it as driving it out of the showroom, as opposed to ordering and building a kit car... were looking for the showroom cars for our stock class.

And remember... once we establish an Outlaw class... there is no problem with kit cars. :cool:

pinwc4
2006.06.15, 05:25 PM
This racing does not look to me like "show room" RTR car racing. Who here is really running a plain out of the box stock car?

Unless I am mistaken we can do things like upgrade our knuckles, springs, aluminum motor pods, disk dampers, ball bearings, titanium shafts, delrin gears, carbon fiber h plates, tires, colored chassis, aluminum steering plates and ball diffs. How is a kit car with stock electronics different than buying a RTR and swapping out all the parts except the electronics?

For any of the other racing I have done stock racing has been limiting the motor in the car. In this case I thought the real limit to try to keep things somewhat level was requiring all stock electronics.

I hope I am not upsetting anyone I am just trying to understand.

Draconious
2006.06.15, 06:04 PM
Well as I've said I plan on making at least 500 of my chassis... more if they sell. To me this is pretty much an order it and receive it thing... especialy since I plan to have TinyRC selling them more than my site.

I only call mine a kit, because I do not feel like spending the time to assemble 500 chassis... so by default it will be sold unassembled, with the option to pay me an extra few bucks to assemble it... and even more to assemble it with electronics... the RTR(-tx)... I am cutting costs in the assembly rather then the quality... ;). Due to the type of chassis it is.. it being unassembled is better than assembled since to change the length setting you basicly take it all apart and put it back together (this is far far easier than it sounds, and involves no screws! its like legos), this will make more sense when I start to show the photos in the next few months.

Electronics are sold seperately but there will be an electronics "package", that I will also have available for purchace, which will include the RX, ESC, and Servo. I chose pre existing components, xray esc, gws rx, and hitec servo, because that is about all that would fit in the shortest compact settings, these to me would be my "stock" components... anything else would be modified/upgraded.
I also figured it easier if TinyRC Sourced and sold the electronics packages... since they/he is a true dealer, and I am still just starting to become a "company", he can get a far better price on them, ive tried to order 1000 of each, but the second I say im not a hobby store they stop calling.

As said, the kyosho PCB can optionaly be used... my chassis is all about options and choices you do whatever you want with it lol.

I have no choice but to use a standard servo on my chassis, the kyosho gears/motor will not fit, they take up too much room... and I do not really concider the servo to be any more of an advantage than those with a digital radio vs those that cannot afford one of those either (Me, but im trying). Both of these items, radio and servo, make the car drive better regardless of skill... since there are issues that are not controllable. And a propperly maintained Mini-Z servo will perform great, mine was giving me guff but I managed to clean it out.

Anyway its all moot until I get the prototype photos public...

I did plan on doing a few time trials with it... but I do not want to concider my chassis an outlaw class... thats just silly.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 06:11 PM
This racing does not look to me like "show room" RTR car racing. Who here is really running a plain out of the box stock car?

Unless I am mistaken we can do things like upgrade our knuckles, springs, aluminum motor pods, disk dampers, ball bearings, titanium shafts, delrin gears, carbon fiber h plates, tires, colored chassis, aluminum steering plates and ball diffs. How is a kit car with stock electronics different than buying a RTR and swapping out all the parts except the electronics?

For any of the other racing I have done stock racing has been limiting the motor in the car. In this case I thought the real limit to try to keep things somewhat level was requiring all stock electronics.

I hope I am not upsetting anyone I am just trying to understand.

Yes, there is a difference. And it's not so much as performance, more about affordability. I was the kid trying to race 10th scale many years ago with a shoestring budget, getting out-dollared everywhere I went... this series is designed around affordability and availability. Winning should depend more on pure skill and less on what parts you're running. That's our whole premise.

Look, Personally, I don't really worry about these kit cars anyways, Gasman has 2 or 3 of them, and it's not like there is any performance advantage with them... they are just alot harder to tune. I've raced against them and they just don't have much more bang for that much buck. Sure they're fast as hell with a Novak Spy in them, but they still have to turn.

The rules, as they are now... work. We could determine every little thing down to what type of wheel nut is supposed to be used, and someone will still complain it's too vague.

For now... I think this is the path we should maintain, I don't want to try to recruit newbies and have to tell them that there are some racer's running custom cars and chassis for a "Stock" series.

I mean, if that's gonna be the case, maybe we could just have a motor and tire rule, and that's all.

Keep it simple guys ! :o

Draconious
2006.06.15, 06:19 PM
But everybody is running custom cars lol... I dare you to run a race with a box stock car, do not change the tires or anything ;).

imxlr8ed
2006.06.15, 06:23 PM
But everybody is running custom cars lol... I dare you to run a race with a box stock car, do not change the tires or anything ;).

Drac... you know what I mean... I'm talking about Kit vs. RTR.

And I have run a stock car with just bearings and tires already (of course they need tires !)... didn't kill my times at all ! Hell, one of Gasman's cars doesn't even have bearings in it !

Draconious
2006.06.15, 06:30 PM
BTW, the spec motor better not be expensive...

And it better have screw holes for mounting, my chassis depends on this...

Mazda787b
2006.06.15, 06:30 PM
Ok, let's just publish the "Reader's Digest" version of this rule.

On the track, is the Audi R8/R10 in the same class as the Corvette C-6R? No.

Even though the C6-R is a highly-modified race car, it is still marginally based (appearance-wise atleast) as that Blue 2k6 model you have been salivating for since your local Chevy dealer took delivery on it.

Now the Audi R8/R10 is a completely prototypical design, and shares little to no parts or visual appearance to ANY vehicle on the road today.

So from the sound of things, a class in the OLPS will be made for prototype cars. Until then, everyone is stuck running GT1.

(Can't you tell I'm excited that LeMans is this weekend?) :D

pinwc4
2006.06.15, 06:40 PM
In regards to why I first posted on this subject here is a picture showing the basic parts of the current Iwaver 02 chassis. The large flat piece on the left is the main chassis while the pieces on the right attack to the top of it. In front there is a kinda A arm like piece that holds the steering knuckles, the battery box and the rear motor pod. I did not show the electronics since this cars stock electronics are on loan as is the carbon fiber piece.

My previous question was do the chassis rules limit me from replacing the piece on the left with the carbon fiber upgrade piece.

I was planning on doing a similar setup to my Firelap in the next month or two. Replacing the stock plastic fragile chassis with probably carbon fiber or maybe a more durable plastic that can be milled.

I think Drac is making the same point I am making. These cars I read everyone running do not seem to be a spec car to me, they are very custom except electronics. They are pricey cars.

I understand the premise of the OLPS and think it is great. I promote it any time I can and greatly enjoy participating in it (I am the judge for the Central IL group). I am just trying to understand what the limits are for what we can do to our cars. I am the type of person that will strictly obey the rules but will certainly question things.

Mazda787b
2006.06.15, 07:00 PM
Well as I would interpret it, the new iWaver 02 with the flat-panel chasses the Carbon upgrade would be allowed. Again, it is no diffierent than an upgraded chassis on the Mini-Zs, as it is a COMMERCIALLY AVALIABLE product sold by the MANUFACTURER. It is no diffierent than buying a new diff for your Z, or the AWD upgrade for your Xmod.

On the other hand, seeing as a diffierent chassis like that is not made for the Firelap 2.0 then it is illegal to use an upgraded or "homemade" chassis (except ones like Kyosho, as they are made for that chassis type).

arch2b
2006.06.15, 08:08 PM
the new iwav er chassis's is basically a kit of parts instead of large single mold parts. it's not like the pro-z kit. (see's ed's explination of a kit car vs. production car)

drac, we all support you innovations and desire to produce your chassis but this is not the place to push it really. no matter how many you make or what it costs, it is still an aftermarket/custom chassis kit, ie; same idea as the pro-z kit and thus would only be allowed in an outlaw/open class. i'm sorry if you don't like it but that is how i think a majority of the people will see it as well. (unless an overwhelming mass says otherwise). i fully support you in your effor to make and sell your kit but....

Draconious
2006.06.15, 09:35 PM
If my chassis is AfterMarket... Then so is the I waver...

I am not pushing my product, im explaining why it should be allowed, if the I waver etc is allowed...

My chassis is NOT the same idea as the Pro-Z there is no similarity on any level...

arch2b
2006.06.15, 10:01 PM
:confused: i've reached a point where i don't think i can provide any more rational debate. it's a clear issue that it's not even worth arguing about to me so if you feel it's not an aftermarket chassis than so be it. either way know i wish you all the best in your efforts and look forward to getting one of your designs into production.

Dusty Weasle
2006.06.15, 10:21 PM
Draconious, you could release an ‘HFAY Special Edition’ model. ;)

LMP/GT, hehe Mazda, I was thinking the same thing. :D
Ah, maybe someday we’ll have so many people lined up at the tracks we can have a 3/3 minimum Heat of GT and LMP at the same time.

I would like to see more manufacturers than just the ‘big three’ in the series. Something that has softened my interest in NASCAR was the homogenizing of the cars. Today they don’t look anything like the cars they represent and the only difference between them are the headlight stickers.

I think we are on the right track by saying ‘production cars’ only. Let me suggest we take a page from (if I recall) Le Mans and say for a chassis to qualify it must:
1. Be comparable in weight and performance to the Kyosho Mini-Z line.
2. Use comparable electronics to the Kyosho Mini-Z line.
3. Have sold a minimum of 10 units.

My key point here is to allow the small business man to compete fair and level with the R/C giants. So what we could do is each season evaluate the chassis available for inclusion in the next season. Perhaps the manufacturer would have to send one unit to Brian for testing.

That’s a brilliant idea using HFAY times to advertise you chassis design and make sales. Sort of like the show Top Gear comparing dozens of cars on the same track.

Imxlr8ed, there was one more rule I was curious about. “Clubs will be disqualified from the Club Championship if they miss more than two races”. Is that really necessary? If they missed races they’ll be down in the standings anyhow. Why penalize them further?

byebye
2006.06.16, 01:55 AM
Is there a reason to allow a custom chassis for one person? Then whats next? There would be too much involved in trying to allow your "custom" chassis to compete in the next HFAY. I think the only way this could be allowed is to run it in a seperate class for the next 6 months and compare it to the laps and times of a HFAY legal car. And if in fact your car is comperable then why even make the effort? I don't think anybody is going to want to buy your chassis to run it in a stock race series. Rules are rules and we can't make acceptions.

I personally would like to see a low cost production CF or FG chassis. Somthing like the cup car where it only takes 10 to make the conversion. Just a plain jane chassis that can take all the parts from either the mr-02 or ma-01. When I say all the parts I mean ALL the parts. Imagine the money you would save? You could keep the costs down and everyone can just do a conversion. Don't waste your time trying to re-invent the wheel Drac. Take that time to make the chassis that all of us only dream of. A chassis that can run all wheel bases, uses K electronics and servo, The option of awd or rwd. If you build it they will buy!!!!

-Byebye

Draconious
2006.06.16, 02:35 AM
I am not reinventing the wheel... im making it better.

Its not custom... its not just for one person...

when it comes down to it the only reason my chassis is illegal is because I designed it... aparently has nothign to do with what the chassis actualy is.

And with the exception of the servo...
"""A chassis that can run all wheel bases, uses K electronics and servo, The option of awd or rwd """ it does... all the info on the chassis is right here: no one apears to actualy have read it lol... http://www.quantumrc.com/_MiX.html

gasman1
2006.06.16, 05:57 AM
We started out this series to keep it simple and affordable and included other 1/28 scale manufacturers basically so not to exclude anyone form competing. (We all know that XMods can't compete with the Mini-Zs and the original Iwavers were nothing but knock-offs with cheaper plastic, lower tolerances and stronger fets). However since the inception of HFAY I've watched this forum and pretty much stayed out of all the petty arguing over rule changes and car mods, minimum weights, motors, etc. This was a really good idea that some people and trying to make more complicated.

Drac, I applaud your ability to design and build your own prototype and I wish you all the luck with it. But your in the same category as Scott Jakes and his Pro-Z chassis. He can't run his cars at any of the sanctioned events that have similar rules as Kyosho, PN Regionals and HFAY. Why? Because it doesn't conform to the rules. There is an event down in Texas (or was, it might be over by now) for all 1/28 cars of any design that has been plugged here in the forum for you to run your car in if you so desire. Good luck. :)

I don't think any exceptions to the current list of approved manufacturers should be changed any time in the near future. If you can't live with the rules, then maybe HFAY isn't for you.

gasman1
2006.06.16, 06:02 AM
We started out this series to keep it simple and affordable and included other 1/28 scale manufacturers basically so not to exclude anyone form competing. (We all know that XMods can't compete with the Mini-Zs and the original Iwavers were nothing but knock-offs with cheaper plastic, lower tolerances and stronger fets). However since the inception of HFAY I've watched this forum and pretty much stayed out of all the petty arguing over rule changes and car mods, minimum weights, motors, etc. This was a really good idea that some people and trying to make more complicated.

Drac, I applaud your ability to design and build your own prototype and I wish you all the luck with it. But your in the same category as Scott Jakes and his Pro-Z chassis. He can't run his cars at any of the sanctioned events that have similar rules as Kyosho, PN Regionals and HFAY. Why? Because it doesn't conform to the rules. I have three of his chassis and my personal opinion is that they are not any better than a well set up Mini-Z. Would I like to run mine? Yes! But I can't race them anywhere because they don't conform to the rules. They are fun to drive and show people but from a racing perspective, they were a waste of money.

There is an event down in Texas (or was, it might be over by now) for all 1/28 cars of any design that has been plugged here in the forum for you to run your car in if you so desire. Good luck. :)

I don't think any exceptions to the current list of approved manufacturers should be changed any time in the near future. If you can't live with the rules, then maybe HFAY isn't for you.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.16, 10:29 AM
Damn... had to post twice ? :D

Look, let's all calm down here. (they're just little plastic cars... they're just little plastic cars... :D ) Breathe deep.... in..... out.... better ?

Ok. Maybe our weakness here is our goal of being inclusive to all brands... maybe it's our strength ? I'm sure we will have some serious Outlaw Class racing in the future... but until then, the "stock" class is not going to deviate from what it is now. We have all of the "major" brands in there, they can all come to your door in RTR form.

Drac, I hope you design something that wakes up your competition, and you become Quantum RC Inc. and begin to distribute cars all over the world.

And I hope you may attempt what I said before and post some times with your new prototype on the Time Trials. That was the whole purpose for the Time Trials... put up, or shut up ! (well, in a good spirited way) If you have a better idea, let the world know about it ! I won't buy another kit until I see that it has an advantage over the other "stock chassied" cars. Gasman dumped alot of beans into his Pro-Zs and it just doesn't seem to pay off as well as it should. Now if he was trimming a whole second each lap he ran, I'd have one of them for sure.

He ran his Pro-Z on Layout 2 I believe... he got a great time too !

gasman1
2006.06.16, 10:47 AM
Sorry for the double post, it was early :o

briankstan
2006.06.16, 10:48 AM
all of this is pointless right now anyways. When you go into production and have a finished product then we can talk about it, but until that point lets just leave it at that.

thanks everyone.

imxlr8ed
2006.06.16, 10:53 AM
Draconious, you could release an ‘HFAY Special Edition’ model. ;)

LMP/GT, hehe Mazda, I was thinking the same thing. :D
Ah, maybe someday we’ll have so many people lined up at the tracks we can have a 3/3 minimum Heat of GT and LMP at the same time.

I would like to see more manufacturers than just the ‘big three’ in the series. Something that has softened my interest in NASCAR was the homogenizing of the cars. Today they don’t look anything like the cars they represent and the only difference between them are the headlight stickers.

I think we are on the right track by saying ‘production cars’ only. Let me suggest we take a page from (if I recall) Le Mans and say for a chassis to qualify it must:
1. Be comparable in weight and performance to the Kyosho Mini-Z line.
2. Use comparable electronics to the Kyosho Mini-Z line.
3. Have sold a minimum of 10 units.

My key point here is to allow the small business man to compete fair and level with the R/C giants. So what we could do is each season evaluate the chassis available for inclusion in the next season. Perhaps the manufacturer would have to send one unit to Brian for testing.

That’s a brilliant idea using HFAY times to advertise you chassis design and make sales. Sort of like the show Top Gear comparing dozens of cars on the same track.

Imxlr8ed, there was one more rule I was curious about. “Clubs will be disqualified from the Club Championship if they miss more than two races”. Is that really necessary? If they missed races they’ll be down in the standings anyhow. Why penalize them further?

Basically, if you remember the figuring system for the Club Championship... that is how you stop some club from just running one great race, and skipping the rest, and walking away with a Championship. It's based on club averages... and this way it rewards dedication as well.

Spoon
2006.06.16, 11:05 AM
Basically, if you remember the figuring system for the Club Championship... that is how you stop some club from just running one great race, and skipping the rest, and walking away with a Championship.

Yeah, the club championship is going to be an averaged score if I remember correctly. The club championship is seperate from the overall scoring.

byebye
2006.06.16, 12:24 PM
So was there a decision on a 16 and under prize??? Just curios because my son(9) has won all but one race for the C-main and is finishing from 27th-33rd in 4events.


-Byebye
Drews Dad

imxlr8ed
2006.06.16, 12:35 PM
So was there a decision on a 16 and under prize??? Just curios because my son(9) has won all but one race.

-Byebye

I'll provide the prize for this category, It's gonna be an RTR Iwaver (might have a Z board in it though.) I'll include pics and details later next week.
It's actually one of my RRTR packages (really ready to run), it's got a charger in there, piles of Powerizer batts, screwdriver, allen wrench... probably have alot more in there by the end of December !

I put this package together for someone who would want to get started with my club... but I'll gladly give it to the fastest youngin' of Season 2.

Now... to pick this apart as well... they must be 16 or under for the entire Season. (right ? :o )

Spoon
2006.06.16, 01:13 PM
I'll provide the prize for this category, It's gonna be an RTR Iwaver (might have a Z board in it though.) I'll include pics and details later next week.
It's actually one of my RRTR packages (really ready to run), it's got a charger in there, piles of Powerizer batts, screwdriver, allen wrench... probably have alot more in there by the end of December !

I put this package together for someone who would want to get started with my club... but I'll gladly give it to the fastest youngin' of Season 2.

Now... to pick this apart as well... they must be 16 or under for the entire Season. (right ? :o )

Maybe we should push this over to the judges forum, but we should just choose a date. 16 and under either at the start of the series or at the end. July 1 or Dec 31.

briankstan
2006.06.16, 04:21 PM
should we make provisions for the upcoming Fet improvement on the stock mini-z chassis. we should include both the 3004 fets and the 3010 fets. I'm not sure when the transition will hit the market, but they are going to.

byebye
2006.06.16, 04:34 PM
I think the car will be much more faster. This gives me a reason to do it. I have a set of 3010 FETs on my F1 but the F1 will get a 4562 upgrade so maybe I'll switch them to my stock car.

-Byebye

imxlr8ed
2006.06.16, 05:07 PM
should we make provisions for the upcoming Fet improvement on the stock mini-z chassis. we should include both the 3004 fets and the 3010 fets. I'm not sure when the transition will hit the market, but they are going to.

2007, that's when we will include them. For now, because all have 3004s in the MiniZ RTRs, that's the fet to go with. (except for the MA010s of course, see the VTRs)

Eventually, everyone who has a 3004 board will be allowed to upgrade to 3010 fets.

Draconious
2006.06.16, 09:41 PM
fets should be factory installed only...

Also around, "including the bump tiles as well"... it should also specify which side of the RCP to use.. since the smooth side can provide faster speeds but less cornering ;). And that the track should be made as level as possible, lets hear it for those down hill straightaways ;).

arch2b
2006.06.16, 10:38 PM
i'm closing this thread :rolleyes: the rules for the this coming season are already done. judges will review the rules again prior to starting the following season.

byebye
2006.06.17, 03:16 AM
Just for the sake of killing the filler thing...we had the same problem in our club. We had wanted 3 main but only had 11 drivers. The C-main ran 3 drivers and the winner of the C-main ran as the filler driver with the B-main. His skill level was high enough to run consistently with the B-main drivers and he also ran the fastest lap for both races(thats my boy!). Since he's already running a qualified car there is no question and since he's coming out of the Main below he's really not getting a warm up race if here were from the a higher main.

If time permits we run a qual based on our Time Trial. Everyone runs the Time Trial one time and that is what the Mains are based on.

In the case that you have only 5 racers I would do the same, qual up and run the bottom 3 in a B-main then the winner runs in the A-main. I think this keeps the field fairly even.

I don't believe anyone would throw a race unless they were best friends with a member from another club. When we race I explain to everyone that we are not competing against each other, we represent our club against the world.

-Byebye

byebye
2006.06.17, 03:18 AM
Just for the sake of killing the filler thing...we had the same problem in our club. We had wanted 3 main but only had 11 drivers. The C-main ran 3 drivers and the winner of the C-main ran as the filler driver with the B-main. His skill level was high enough to run consistently with the B-main drivers and he also ran the fastest lap for both races(thats my boy!). Since he's already running a qualified car there is no question and since he's coming out of the Main below he's really not getting a warm up race if here were from the a higher main.

If time permits we run a qual based on our Time Trial. Everyone runs the Time Trial one time and that is what the Mains are based on.

In the case that you have only 5 racers I would do the same, qual up and run the bottom 3 in a B-main then the winner runs in the A-main. I think this keeps the field fairly even.

I don't believe anyone would throw a race unless they were best friends with a member from another club. When we race I explain to everyone that we are not competing against each other, we represent our club against the world.

-Byebye