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Dusty Weasle
2006.07.23, 05:47 AM
How much of a performance boost would you get putting the stock armature and magnets into a BB can?

For the next season of our local series we’re looking at different motor rules. We’re not looking to go faster, and just want to keep the power reasonably stock-even.

The majority want to simply use stock motors, but some of us also want easy motor maintenance like the Atomic and PN cans offer. So I’m considering a rule allowing building a stock motor with an aftermarket can. Catch is they’re all BB cans.

So, would the reduced drag of a BB can be all that significant over a stock can? Or would it just be a blip, potentially overshadowed simply by the differences from one motor to the next?

Flashsp-2
2006.07.23, 10:47 AM
There are no downsides to using a BB can, except the additional cost. The advantages are something that is noticable, as the bushing/bearing area is a primary source of drag on these motors, with the bearings providing much less friction than bushings. The motor will run cooler, draw less amps, have higher rpm, and longer run times. The only problem you open up with this rule for your racing class is now people can upgrade brushes and possibly magnets without anyone knowing, unless someone is running much faster than the rest of the pack. Overall, though, with the Atomic can running around $12 and the PN can running for a few dollars less, it would provide you guys with more efficient motors at a pretty small cost.

arch2b
2006.07.23, 11:20 AM
i made one and it's much better. email me and i can mail it to you.

saiyan
2006.07.23, 01:03 PM
Hey Dusty, I'm fine with this option. I wanted to run my AWD in the 100 lapper, but i was worried about the motor heat from the long race. Others here have mentioned cooler running motors, but it would mean upping to an aftermarket motor. I had a 1:10 motor that was a 27turn reedy MVP and it ran fairly hot compared to other motors and i had relegated it to a practice motor at the beginning of summer a few years back cause i didn't want it frying durring a race. 1 day i had the com cut and installed new brushes in it and since it was a practice motor now and i was feeling a bit experimental, I also put bearings in it and i noticed 2 things...1 it ran much cooler, though still hotter then most, and 2 it had more acceleration, but i didn't notice any more top speed. Ofcourse these are different motor designs and such, but I know that when you trade out bushings for bearings there will always be performance gains.

I would be willing to find out how many people would be willing to chip in and then just create a 'handout' motor that are all built the same. That away it's still a 'level' field.

arch2b
2006.07.23, 01:11 PM
just my opinon but the atomic can is nicer. you won't have to take it apart to clean stuff or replace brushes

Flashsp-2
2006.07.23, 02:01 PM
Ditto what arch said. I have been using the Atomic cans for a good while now, and all the motors I sell are in Atomic cans.The neos are pretty strong, so a change to some ferrites would help out there. Other than that, for ~$12 you can't go wrong. Leaving the endbell on for brush changes in a good thing, because those tabs wear out and snap of pretty quickly.

builthatch
2006.07.23, 07:05 PM
Ditto what arch said. I have been using the Atomic cans for a good while now, and all the motors I sell are in Atomic cans.The neos are pretty strong, so a change to some ferrites would help out there. Other than that, for ~$12 you can't go wrong. Leaving the endbell on for brush changes in a good thing, because those tabs wear out and snap of pretty quickly.

the atomics are indeed alot nicer than the others for those reasons, but it is unfortunate they are not legal in many instances, such as the 'big' track i run at occasionally in NY.

i want to try this setup-

atomic BB can with neo's
silver atomic brush on + side and carbon on -
x-speed arm

this is similar to the pn/ x-speed hybrid everyone does, but with the added advantage of the atomic endbell and the silver brush. i think it would last quite a long time.

Mojar7070
2006.07.23, 11:22 PM
i love the PN speedy with the Atomic can setup. However I use the ferrite magnets that the speedy comes with. Great torque and awesome top end.

I've tried that mptor setup before builthatch, I personally don't like the neo mags with the x-speed arm, it takes away too much of the top end.

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.23, 11:47 PM
Thanks everyone. If the BB can only provides a little better efficiency and wear but the power remains reasonably stock, I’ll probably allow that and leave it up to the drivers if they want to build a motor.

The original rule was to be “any non-FET upgrade motor”. I wanted the drivers to have a choice of torque vs speed vs drain and have the different manufacturers battle it out. But we feel the cars are fast enough to be challenging without breaking on impact, so the consensus was to not make the cars any faster.

The convenient rule would be OLPS compliance so we don’t have to swap motors every-other-week, but I want to make motor maintenance easy and maybe even have a little individual adjustability within a stock power range.

Thanks Arch. I'm not sure which way the rules will go yet though. What is yours built from and how does it perform vs. box stock? Is it designed to be a stock type motor?

I have a couple more questions:

Armatures:---------------------
Rather than buy a new/sacrifice old stock motor only to toss the can, I’d like to give our drivers the option to build a motor from different manufacturer components of their choice. So I need to figure out what stock equivalent armatures are out there.

How many turns is the stock Kyosho? Stock iWaver and Xmod?

I see PN has a couple armatures at 38 and 37 turn pretty cheap. Then they have a 35 turn that is wildly more expensive. Is a couple turns going to make a huge difference or is it a subtle tune. I assume the enormous price jump of the 35 turn is because its hand wound. Does hand wound make that big a difference?

Brushes:---------------------
Is there a significant performance difference between carbon and silver brushes, or is it just efficiency/durability? What does this silver+/carbon- system do?

Magnets:---------------------
Are the aftermarket ferrite magnets reasonably equal to the box-stock magnets?

Again, what I’m looking for here is what would be the upper limit for a reasonably ‘stock class’ series while giving the drivers some basic motor options.

Flashsp-2
2006.07.24, 12:29 AM
I don't know what the stock mini-z motor is, but I have heard it is around 70t. I unwound one before and that seems about right. The x-speed is 47. The stock xmods motor is around 70, I think, and the stage 2 upgrade is also 47.

The reason that 35t from PN costs like $40 is because it is pattern wound, and this takes time and skill. That price is pretty ridiculous though, I have been offering the samething for $18. If you guys want to work out a deal I could pattern wind a bunch of arms for you to use as handouts, just email me if you are interested.

I haven't used silver brushes before, but they are supposedly better than carbon brushes at 4.8v. At higher voltages the silver ones may get damaged.

The aftermarket ferrites are a good bit stronger than the stock motor ones, which are actually pretty weak. They will knock a bit from the top end, but the added punch is likely worth it without the drag braking that would be caused by using neo magnets.

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.24, 03:43 AM
70t, wow! :eek: Ok then, the common aftermarket armatures are right out. :rolleyes: Here’s the rule I’m looking at then:

“Stock class motors only. Either a stock Kyosho, iWaver, or Xmod motor, or any custom built motor with an armature of 70 turn or greater. Ball Bearing cans are permitted. Any brush type is permitted. Any ferrite magnet is permitted”.

So if any of the drivers want a custom wound armature they can order one, or they can simply use one from a stock can. It gives them options, so I think that’ll work well.

Funny thing is this almost seems like more trouble than my original idea of ‘any non-FET’ motor, but the key goal is to not boost speeds so we need to stay in the 70 turn range. If I understand this correctly bearings, brushes, and magnets will improve ‘stock’ performance without exceeding it.

Since there’s no money on the line and the prizes are a (1st) trophy, (2nd) medal, and (3rd) box of candy, I doubt anyone will pour dollars into pushing the rule beyond reason. :p

Mojar7070
2006.07.24, 11:54 AM
Dusty Weasle, Be careful which armature you and your fellow racers use. Any arm with a 43 turn or below will need a fet upgrade or an external turbo.

The PN arms that you mentioned - 38T, 37T, 35T WILL definitely need a fet upgrade or an external turbo. So, buying these arms is not within the rule of “any non-FET upgrade motor”

Open up the pdf file I attached. It's a list of motors that I've researched. It's not complete, i couldn't find some of the specs for the motors. Hope this helps.

color01
2006.07.24, 05:06 PM
There are small exceptions to the 43-turn rule, which some people could use to an advantage. I run a Hyper Dash 2 armature in my stock-FET (3004) MR02... but there's only 35 turns of thin wire on the armature. If you wanted to use a handout motor, it would be a good candidate, it's reasonably stingy on current draw, and costs about $4 a motor. The only change you'd have to make is to upgrade the brushes to a carbon set/upgrade the whole can to the Atomic setup.

Dusty, how big is the track? I can't imagine a bunch of drivers going at a wide-open road course with 70-turn motors. :confused:

nivlacs3z
2006.07.24, 06:55 PM
WOW.... lol I really didnt believe that it was a 70T motor because the stock xmod ones are around 55-60ish. So, I took this lil stock one i had laying around and found out it was exactly 70 turns.... Thats just really sluggish if ya ask me.

70T+ is well 1 a pain in the butt to build and probably impossible to do if you do a pattern wound arm. The stock one has a sort of short arm. Its like one lil stack/ring thign shorter then other regular armatures. I wouldnt go with those machine made armatures... they're rather nasty lol. They're very inconsistant with the wire lenghts so you'll end up with different currents per arm if ya get what im saying.

heres my 40T and 35T arms:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a84/nivlacs3z/40tn34tarmsfront.jpg

vs

http://www.pnracing.us/new/product_image/94_1.jpg

carbon will last longer and silver allows for more conductivity.
Oh and magnets... ferrites are cheap n for top speeds so I dont really like them. Neos give you a buttload of torque so I'd use that as a standard for the racing. Aside of the torque, they arent that expensive.

If ya dont get flash to do them then I'll be avalable to wind yalls motors too. Hit me up with a email or something kk?

nivlacs3z
2006.07.24, 07:33 PM
agh I forgot to mention something... 43T is the minimum turns for stock fets. So around the 50+ mark is where i'd have your racers run. I personally use a 52T long arm with an Atomic can. It gives a LOT of torque so I run a 9teeth pinion.

saiyan
2006.07.24, 08:45 PM
Dusty, I like the idea of the 52t with neos. My gear mesh is actually perfect with a 9 tooth pinion so it would be quiet again ;) . I don't think we need to make it too difficult on the armature rule, if some one wants to fry their motor or board during a race and lose the points at the cost of what they spent then it would be they're own fault. I think though that the other racers should atleast show reciepts/invoice to prove what they installed. In about 2 to 3 weeks i could afford to buy like 10 identicle motors that could be used as handouts at each race.

The size of our club race tracks is 4 wide Ls, though we could go bigger.

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.25, 01:58 AM
Thanks again everyone. We wanted to keep the speed and torque down at stock levels leaving the challenge in setup and handling, so I think I’m going to keep it restricted to 70t+. If we start going fewer turns and neo-mags we may as well open it back up to any non-FET, and the consensus just didn’t seem to be there for that idea.

In all probability everyone will simply use a stock motor or put stock parts in a BB case. If anyone would like to have a custom made 70t+ armature they can. I wanted to avoid handouts and leave motor care to the individual drivers. I’ll point the other drivers here in case they want a custom build.

There’s no big prize on the line so I think we can trust our small group without receipts. Still, to keep things clearly above board I’m thinking about randomly chosen motor inspections and/or full Scrutineering. There will always be basic Scrutineering as a minimum weight limit is being introduced.

Maybe for Season 3 we’ll go any non-FET.

That’s a fantastic list to have Mojar. Unfortunately is does highlight the limited options for aftermarket stock armatures. Like Saiyan said, our layouts are designed primarily around 4 Wide-L kits. The longest straight tends to be around 20’, but with some wide corners they can effectively be 5-10’ longer.

You can see some of the layouts in our Phoenix thread in the GTG forum. We also have pictures on www.Mini-AZ.com. I don’t have the schedule worked out yet, but I’m planning to make Anderstorp the season opener.

nivlacs3z
2006.07.25, 01:54 PM
ahhhh, I see I see. Now that I think about it, its definently possible to do a pattern wind motor thats 70 turns the thing is, it'd take a lot of patience and some 32-34 gauge wire. Those would definently top out about half way through those straights you mentioned.

For the basic pattern windings it'd have to be 13>12>11>10>9>8>7 = 70T or 12>11>10>9>8>7>6>5>4 = 72T. Right now, I'd have a little fight to do 10 turns on the bottom stack of these long arms and tahts rather tricky. 12 and 13... It'd haveta be 32awg or 33awg I think.

Are you allowing the racers to use Isotropic Ferrite Magnets? These give more torque then stock and more top end. They are commonly used in PN's motors and are very easy to come by as well as affordable. ($2.50 at rc mart, Labeled as Atomic #AR136 Magnet for standard motor/x-speed) This might be a better option then using stock magnets because of the avalability. Also, because of the armature's limits being so high, people cant possibly have to fast of cars because of ferrites or neos.

Anyways, Good luck with this. I definently like how you're keeping things regulated so just tuning and suspension will help win the race, however sometimes, I feel that motors and motor tricks/technology are also a large part of the car, its tuning and racing. I'm stil avalible for making those high turn motors if yall are interested. ^_^ GL

arch2b
2006.07.25, 02:15 PM
nivlacs3z, not sure if your familiar with the dc race series but we have choosen to regulate the motor/body only for our spec class. we choose the atomic standard as it is a very smooth motor. we might be interested in having spec motors or atleast armatures done for season 3. feel free to pop into our body spec class thread if you have the time.

nivlacs3z
2006.07.25, 03:15 PM
Ahh thats a koo series yall have going on. Down here in houston I dont think we run series'. How long do these series last? People just kind of come down on fridays n saturdays every two weeks and we race/tune etc etc. Its koo that yall let the skill shine without the bling giving people an edge, but heh I still love tuning my motors as they are just apart of the car as any other peice. Anytime yall are wanting some hand wound armatures then just hit me up with an email and ill be avalible.

arch2b
2006.07.25, 05:00 PM
i sent an email.

nivlacs3z
2006.07.25, 08:19 PM
you got mail ^_^.

Hood
2006.07.25, 10:41 PM
The only problem that I see is that we will not be able to run the same motor in HFAY events..

If both used this rule it would be great..

We could use LCG pods with the screw mounts.
We could tinker with magnet and brushes.


Dusty,
Is there anyway that you can run the HFAY race for August on the 12th? It looks like I am gonna be out of town alot during August. I would hate to miss it..

nivlacs3z
2006.07.26, 12:31 AM
which motors are legal for hfay?

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.26, 01:39 AM
I’m glad you mentioned that now, Hood. Today we tried to reserve the FOP lodge for Aug 5th and it’s booked. In fact they’re booked until at least October, so we’ll try for the American Legion Hall tomorrow. I’ll try for the 12th.

Yeah, I don’t want to wrangle the motor out of the pod every other-week, but I think this is the best compromise between maintenance/adjustability and stock power. It’s only a six event series so we’ll see how it goes. If it’s a total wash we can even change the rule mid-season.

I’m putting the final tweak on a weight rule allowing the new 3010 FET cars to compete (AJ’s Xmod replacement is the new Porsche). I’ll be posting the 2007 rules either tonight or tomorrow.

Nivlacs3z, I’m going to say any aftermarket ferrite magnet and let the drivers tweak their power as they like. The HFAY/OLPS stock class requires an unopened and unmodified box-stock Kyosho, iWaver, or Xmod motor. Pure stock.

nivlacs3z
2006.07.26, 02:47 PM
ahh ic ic, so I take it they will purchase the armatures on their own or swap out other parts on their own instead of having handout armatures?

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.27, 03:37 AM
Correct. Motor selection and maintenance will be the individual drivers’ responsibility. I’d like to see it mix up a bit with different magnets and brushes, just for some subtle differences.

The rules are now posted in the Phoenix sub-forum.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22429

nivlacs3z
2006.07.27, 02:19 PM
Koo, What pinions do yall normally run on with such a high turn arm?

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.28, 02:41 AM
I usually run a 7t, but last week I ran an 8t for our 1hr Le Mans on the large track. I know at least one of the drivers ran a 6t. I think they top out too early on the big tracks and are too squirrelly and low-top-end on the shorter OLPS tracks.

I run the 7t in the OLPS. I tried an 8t but the car tightened up on exit and carried too much speed into the corners.

Dusty Weasle
2006.07.30, 04:04 AM
I finally pried open my old stock motor that blow’d up last year after running 1000 laps in a futile attempt to better my HFAY time. You may recall the tale as told in the post “Ballad of the McLaren”.

Unable to pry the tabs back, I finally got the Dremel out and cut the blasted motor can open, and pictured here is what I found. Now this motor was already close to two years old, so the 1000 laps were just the final straw.

It served me well during that time, but this shows starkly what motor wear looks like after so much time without proper care. I did keep it oiled and regularly cleaned with motor spray, but comms and brushes wear out. In the end, on a cold winter night in my garage, one of the brushes snapped. From the fragment in the can, I think the brush was down to just the metal tab that held it.

While the comm on this armature is pretty shot, I am also cheap. Rather than buy a new stock motor and open it up, I’m going to put this one in a new Atomic BB can with some fresh brushes and the stock magnets and use it for our local AZGT series (which requires 70+ turn armature for stock power). With the Atomic can at least maintenance and brush changes will be easier.

builthatch
2006.07.30, 10:53 AM
I finally pried open my old stock motor that blow’d up last year after running 1000 laps in a futile attempt to better my HFAY time. You may recall the tale as told in the post “Ballad of the McLaren”.

Unable to pry the tabs back, I finally got the Dremel out and cut the blasted motor can open, and pictured here is what I found. Now this motor was already close to two years old, so the 1000 laps were just the final straw.

It served me well during that time, but this shows starkly what motor wear looks like after so much time without proper care. I did keep it oiled and regularly cleaned with motor spray, but comms and brushes wear out. In the end, on a cold winter night in my garage, one of the brushes snapped. From the fragment in the can, I think the brush was down to just the metal tab that held it.

While the comm on this armature is pretty shot, I am also cheap. Rather than buy a new stock motor and open it up, I’m going to put this one in a new Atomic BB can with some fresh brushes and the stock magnets and use it for our local AZGT series (which requires 70+ turn armature for stock power). With the Atomic can at least maintenance and brush changes will be easier.

cut that comm and run a silver brush on the + side next time! it might be past a proper service (the comm) but i think you could get it relatively close to decent so it'll run well again.

Spec-C MA-010
2006.12.19, 07:37 AM
I don't know what the stock mini-z motor is, but I have heard it is around 70t. I unwound one before and that seems about right. The x-speed is 47. The stock xmods motor is around 70, I think, and the stage 2 upgrade is also 47.

The reason that 35t from PN costs like $40 is because it is pattern wound, and this takes time and skill. That price is pretty ridiculous though, I have been offering the samething for $18. If you guys want to work out a deal I could pattern wind a bunch of arms for you to use as handouts, just email me if you are interested.

I haven't used silver brushes before, but they are supposedly better than carbon brushes at 4.8v. At higher voltages the silver ones may get damaged.

The aftermarket ferrites are a good bit stronger than the stock motor ones, which are actually pretty weak. They will knock a bit from the top end, but the added punch is likely worth it without the drag braking that would be caused by using neo magnets.

I just unwound oune it is 70t

Flashsp-2
2006.12.19, 07:58 AM
Thanks. I thought that was how many turns the stock motor had, but it has been around a year or so since I did that.

bemoore
2006.12.19, 08:51 AM
Instead of quoting each comment I'm responding to, I'm just going to make a few comments.

Silver brushes - Someone mentioned a concern over ability to handle additional voltage. Silver brushes are used in HO slot cars which run on 18 volts. Voltage handling will not be a problem.

Armature turns. I see much discussion regarding a limit on the # of turns. How would you propose to enforce this rule? The only way I know to determine the # of turns is to completely dewind the arm. If you were to try to dewind an arm of mine, I'd tell you to take a flying leap and just give me a DQ. Oh, and you wouldn't have to worry about my motor anymore because I wouldn't be back. Exception: A national event. At an event like this, I would just accept that any part of my car is subject to being torn completely apart. At a club event, all tech-ing needs to non-destructive. In slot cars the arms are measured for resistance and inspected for tampering. Arm resistance is a pretty good measure of the power potential. I don't know the ohms range for the arms you guys consider acceptable, but I'd find out and use that as my means of limiting motor power. The points where the wire is attached to the commutator tabs is also inspected for tampering. They must be stock and show no signs of being re-soldered or re-crimped. This would be an indication of arm dewinding, a practice that was discovered and became popular decades ago in slot cars. Removing about 10% of the winds gives just a little more power. Not enough to be obvious. But illegal nonetheless.

I've discovered (also in slot cars) that once you open up the motor rules, you have a much more difficult task verifying that a motor is legal. That's why some classes have gone to sealed motors.

Another interesting point. Last club race the winner (who is a very experienced 1/10th scale racer) set the lap record for that layout. I noticed that he had the lowest top speed of all the cars in the A main. I asked him about it and he said that he had grabbed the wrong batteries which were half dead. He was near perfect in the race, having about one mishap, and that was due to lapped traffic. The point? More power isn't always better. So maybe a rigorous motor tech isn't needed, even with liberal motor rules.

arch2b
2006.12.19, 09:06 AM
it's been so long since i've read this thread i no longer recall the suggested use for such restrictions but i can assure you that it is not the hfay sereis. :)

Dusty Weasle
2006.12.20, 07:19 AM
This was research I was doing to create a stock-like motor rule for our local race series (the AZGT Championship). We settled on "Any 70t or greater arm". The irony is, despite having purchased 70t arms and Atomic BB cans, none has yet been run and we only have one race left in this season.

I tried to put mine together but the arm would bind when I closed the can. We’ve just been using Kyosho stocks.

I’m preparing the rules update for Season III now and it looks like we will simply say "Any non-FET upgrade motor" (so Atomic Stock/Speedy05 as the top end). Of course if anyone wants to build a custom motor that’d still be fine.

I agree bemoore, slower is probably still better. We’ll see how it plays out. I’d like to get my 70t arm working in the Atomic BB can and run that. I’ll get better battery life during our 30min and 1hr Le Mans races.

Actually verifying the turns isn’t an issue. It’s all just for fun at Mini-AZ and I’m confident nobody is cheating. Particularly since this whole season we’ve been running sealed motors, so I’ve had an unbiased look at the abilities of each driver displayed consistently over six months. One of our new guys is a sponsored 1:10 scale racer, and as expected he is a very dominant driver. Watch out for Brad in the next season of the OLPS! ;)

builthatch
2006.12.20, 09:08 AM
Instead of quoting each comment I'm responding to, I'm just going to make a few comments.

Silver brushes - Someone mentioned a concern over ability to handle additional voltage. Silver brushes are used in HO slot cars which run on 18 volts. Voltage handling will not be a problem.

Armature turns. I see much discussion regarding a limit on the # of turns. How would you propose to enforce this rule? The only way I know to determine the # of turns is to completely dewind the arm. If you were to try to dewind an arm of mine, I'd tell you to take a flying leap and just give me a DQ. Oh, and you wouldn't have to worry about my motor anymore because I wouldn't be back. Exception: A national event. At an event like this, I would just accept that any part of my car is subject to being torn completely apart. At a club event, all tech-ing needs to non-destructive. In slot cars the arms are measured for resistance and inspected for tampering. Arm resistance is a pretty good measure of the power potential. I don't know the ohms range for the arms you guys consider acceptable, but I'd find out and use that as my means of limiting motor power. The points where the wire is attached to the commutator tabs is also inspected for tampering. They must be stock and show no signs of being re-soldered or re-crimped. This would be an indication of arm dewinding, a practice that was discovered and became popular decades ago in slot cars. Removing about 10% of the winds gives just a little more power. Not enough to be obvious. But illegal nonetheless.

I've discovered (also in slot cars) that once you open up the motor rules, you have a much more difficult task verifying that a motor is legal. That's why some classes have gone to sealed motors.

Another interesting point. Last club race the winner (who is a very experienced 1/10th scale racer) set the lap record for that layout. I noticed that he had the lowest top speed of all the cars in the A main. I asked him about it and he said that he had grabbed the wrong batteries which were half dead. He was near perfect in the race, having about one mishap, and that was due to lapped traffic. The point? More power isn't always better. So maybe a rigorous motor tech isn't needed, even with liberal motor rules.

i've seen stuff like that a few times; someone will enter with a stock class-type motor and stock board and smoke everyone in mod simply because the thing is more manageable, there is less point-n-shoot, etc.

one problem i've found with sealed motors and/or handouts is the quality control of them. I know all to well how shoddy, from piece to piece, the Speedy 05BB can be...

I know i gave an example of how speed doesn't matter as much as you think, and that it's been mentioned too, but when you get in a class where everyone has manageable power from handouts, and a few are less powerful, the effect is magnified and it becomes unfair.

EMU
2007.01.03, 03:02 AM
I have allways liked the idea of no motor limit, as long as you run stock fets. Now that the 3010 FETs are being used, the limit of the FETs are higher. So I would now restrict to any 3004 fet safe motor/hybrid, since you could run an AWD motor on a 3010 equipped MR02.

At ARCMS we were running a hatchback class with high mount 015, and stock motors. It started out with the Mini-Cooper, then was expanded to all hatches. Next season it is planned to expand to any Mr01/015/AWD body that is narrow and would not fit an MR02s width. This would rule out MR01 bodies like the Corvette C5R, NSX, CLK... but would increase the use of setups that would not normally be run in 2wd stock (fet stock motors). I am not sure if he plans to use Kyosho Stock motors or open the field up to X-
Speed...

Hood
2007.02.03, 08:59 AM
I didn't know half of those motors existed.. I will try to get more info from PN about the motors that aren't complete in the spreadsheet.

Joe and I ran the next HFAY in my garage last night. We tried out the Speedy 05 motors on the small track, and we are afraid of what this will do to our club racing. It was fast and alot of fun, but I can't imagine how some of our people are going to control the extra power. I am afraid of the next AZGT with more than 4-5 cars on the track at a time. We are gonna break some parts..

Hood