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arch2b
2006.11.08, 03:12 PM
i've had sesveral instances where problems are likey due to rf interference with steel or such in the concrete floor. normally i would just use an rcp tile for an insulator and go about my business. however at neko con, we had to use double layer of rcp tiles and still got some interference. there was prro cell reception and no wifi so that ruled out that type of stuff.

can i use an rf/ir/uv/uf barrier under the loop to prevent interference with objects under the loop? bascially it would be sheilding preventing any signal from the bottom of the loop downward. this material is in the form of a window tint like material that is maybe 1-4mm thick and used for govt./commercial high security applications.

briankstan
2006.11.08, 03:16 PM
this is a good question. If this will work where can I get my hands on some of this.

I have only had a few issues with these types of situations and usually by moving the loop 1 tile resolved it, but not always.

I'll eagerly await the answer to this as we are moving to different locations more often.

hobbycar
2006.11.08, 03:29 PM
Hey guys, I'm interested in what you find out.

Arch2b, what specific issue are you having that you think is RF related?

I've had 2 different issues with Core:
1) Missing laps (last time it missed about 10-15% of the laps - never missed that many before but we had just moved to a new location)
2) Having a car glitch going over the start-finish-line/Core-loop (basically the car will severely swerve to one side or the other)

I just started having the 2nd problem the last 3 AA GTGs and nobody else has the same problem :(

Another maybe related/maybe unrelated thing is there have been a couple times where the Core will only work if my laptop DC adapter is not plugged in and it is only running on batteries.

-hobbycar

arch2b
2006.11.08, 03:34 PM
it's simlar to this product, http://www.glasslock.co.uk/products_services.htm

brief description
More about EMI/RFI Shielding

The electromagnetic waves generated by electronic devices may negatively affect other, similar, electronic devices. Such affects are called Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) and Radio Frequency Interference (RFI). EMI and RFI may cause malfunctions in electronic devices. Specifically, EMI and RFI cause suppression of signals generated internally in a device, external ambient interference with equipment operation, or emissions generated internally that will interfere with equipment operation. The world today is increasingly electronic, with millions of waves and signals floating through the air at any given moment. Therefore, EMI and RFI are potential problems in any industry, and there is a premium on protective products and services from it.

In order to prevent EMI or RFI, EMI/RFI Shielding agents may be used as protection. In most cases, EMI/RFI Shielding is in the form of a spray. The spray is often acrylic based, and is applied to plastic electronics housings. Highly pure metals such as nickel, silver, and copper in the spray help to reduce or completely eliminate EMI and RFI interference. EMI/RFI Shielding agents are also available as paints and brush on coatings.

EMI/RFI Shielding is important in many industries. For example, EMI/RFI Shielding is necessary in telecomm because radio transmissions can hamper the reception of a signal by a recipient if the signals are near the same frequency. EMI/RFI Shielding may prevent incorrect frequencies from interfering with a device. Medically, in another example, hospital equipment must meet standards set by the FDA to prevent the machinery from being affected by cell phones, PDA’s, or other electronic devices. EMI/RFI Shielding helps to make such protections possible.

EMI/RFI Shielding is important across many industries. Through spray on agents and other solutions, EMI/RFI Shielding is becoming more attainable. With such solutions, even in an increasingly electronic world, EMI and RFI may eventually become a non-factor in the industrial world.

here is a local manuf. for my region
http://www.astic.us/

arch2b
2006.11.08, 03:49 PM
not sure it is rf related but sheilding under the loop would reduce the possible sources of interference provided the loop will still function correctly.

i think there is already a thread for laptop problems.

fyi, we always have issues with core and channel 3 for some reason but ther eis also a thread on this as well already.

gltiching as you cross the loop was discussed in the channel thread i think. oddly enough dc has always had that issue. only certain cars and harldy the same cars each time. fyi, happens most with awd cars for us.

problem 1 sounds like what i'm talking about, ie; environmental interference. try a layer of rcp tiles under the loop and you likely find the accuracy rate increase.

another question for core: what are the tolerances for power fluctuations and effects on performance? would a seperate dc adapter reduce the potential for these issues which seem to be a result of power thru usb ports? you may want a new thread for that answer...

arch2b
2007.01.29, 09:52 AM
i have another idea involving the use of ir/rf blocking material.

would there be any benifit to placing a peice of this material on the bottom of the mini-zz pcb? my thinking is it would reduce the potential amount of radio interference that some cars experience as they cross over the loop.

would wrapping the pcb in this material create reception problems?

hobbycar
2007.01.29, 11:50 AM
i have another idea involving the use of ir/rf blocking material.

would there be any benifit to placing a peice of this material on the bottom of the mini-zz pcb? my thinking is it would reduce the potential amount of radio interference that some cars experience as they cross over the loop.

would wrapping the pcb in this material create reception problems?

Interesting idea...but I wonder if it would also cause the Core to miss more laps assuming you have your Core Transponder between the top of your body and the PCB.

But I'm open to trying anything as this issue is super annoying!

-hobbycar

arch2b
2007.01.29, 12:05 PM
if your interested, i can mail you a sample i have of the material.

pinwc4
2007.01.29, 12:19 PM
i have another idea involving the use of ir/rf blocking material.

would there be any benifit to placing a peice of this material on the bottom of the mini-zz pcb? my thinking is it would reduce the potential amount of radio interference that some cars experience as they cross over the loop.

would wrapping the pcb in this material create reception problems?

In regards to minimizing the interference to the pcb GrfxDan did something in our last race that seemed to work really well. He placed a piece of chrome vinyl decal material on the bottom of his car. The chrome vinyl needed to extend as far back as the antenna does. He was always getting the worst interference out of any of us and this appears to have fixed his problem.

I will pester him for a picture of what he did in case others would be interested.

arch2b
2007.01.29, 12:34 PM
did that impair the signal recepetion strength with the core tag?

i've got plenty of aluminum hvac duct tape if thats similar?

the material patch cover i'm talking about could be cut to the same size as the pcb, similar to the plastic cover the awd has on the bottom of it's pcb.

pinwc4
2007.01.29, 12:53 PM
did that impair the signal recepetion strength with the core tag?

i've got plenty of aluminum hvac duct tape if thats similar?

the material patch cover i'm talking about could be cut to the same size as the pcb, similar to the plastic cover the awd has on the bottom of it's pcb.

We were concerned about that also. The core reader never missed one of his laps during the night though. I think he made sure to have his tag as far forward in the body as possible.

He tried just covering the pcb area from the bottom of the chassis at first and that was not enough. It seemed more important for the decal to extend further back than the pcb, as far back as the antenna goes.

I would think the aluminum tape is similar although it is a different metal and thickness. It would be worth trying out though as it is easy to find.

bnwhtlw
2007.01.29, 12:57 PM
When I was shielding one my guitars that had a really bad ground hum issue I used this and it seemed to work very well. (Copper tape) From what I understand you can get it in the plumbers section of lowes.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Shielding/Conductive_Copper_Tape.html

I wonder if that would help.

We have a glitch issue in cville on one corner. Its aweful. It is near an electrical outlet. I dont know if that could cause some issues. Im going to try and trouble shoot tomorrow. I suppose it could also be some rebar in concrete under the tile.

GrfxDan
2007.01.29, 02:33 PM
As pinwc4 already mentioned, I put adhesive chrome vinyl under my car during our last race and it virtually eliminated all of the interference. I used to get interference over the finish line at least 75% of the time. With the chrome vinyl on the bottom of the car I only expereinced very minor interference 1 lap during one of our 2 mains this past weekend. I also positioned the core tag all the way towards the front of the car and it never missed counting a lap all night long. This isn't a 100% fix but I would say it solves at least 80-90% of the inteference problem experienced when going over the finish line (core lap counter).

I run a small vinyl shop as a part-time business and will be making templates for metallized adhesive vinyl pieces to go on th bottom of the MA-010 and the MR-02 (altough I don't know how much interference there is for the MR-02). I'll post pictures here tonight. For now I'd like to guage interest on such a product and get your input on what an acceptable price would be. I'm thinking of selling them in kits of 6 pieces since they would need to be replaced from time to time (on the MA-010 you have to partially remove it and then push it back down to swap batteries). I look forward to your responses.

arch2b
2007.01.29, 02:43 PM
awsome idea! see if you can get measuerments for just covering the bottom of the pcb as is done on the ma-010. you may want to test that as well.

once you get a price set, please email me as we would be happy to carry these in the shop here

GrfxDan
2007.01.29, 03:15 PM
awsome idea! see if you can get measuerments for just covering the bottom of the pcb as is done on the ma-010. you may want to test that as well.

once you get a price set, please email me as we would be happy to carry these in the shop here

I hadn't even considered having you sell them here. That's an awesome idea too.

I could make pieces for just the pcb but I don't think it would work nearly as well. When I removed half of the pieces that I originally put on the bottom of my MA-010 (so I could swap batteries) the inteference came back, though not as bad a before it was noticeable again. I think the key is covering the pcb AND the antenna. The half that I removed was the half that covered the antenna; as soon as I replaced it the interference was gone again.

hobbycar
2007.01.29, 03:41 PM
if your interested, i can mail you a sample i have of the material.

I'm definitely interested. You can send it to me or David.

-hobbycar

GrfxDan
2007.01.29, 05:38 PM
Hobbycar, I'll be making pre-cut adhesive chrome vinyl RF shields to go on the bottom of the MA-010. If you email me with your contact info I'll send you one for testing. It virtually eliminated all finish-line/lap counter interference for me but I'd like for others to try it as well and then let me know how it works for them.

arch2b
2007.01.29, 06:09 PM
I'm definitely interested. You can send it to me or David.

-hobbycar
i'll mail a sample to david, just remind him about it ;) you may be testing the stuff from grfx as well for the shop to ifg you don't mind?

hobbycar
2007.01.29, 06:33 PM
Hobbycar, I'll be making pre-cut adhesive chrome vinyl RF shields to go on the bottom of the MA-010. If you email me with your contact info I'll send you one for testing. It virtually eliminated all finish-line/lap counter interference for me but I'd like for others to try it as well and then let me know how it works for them.

Cool! GrfxDan, I just emailed you. Let me know if you don't get it.

Yeah, this issue is really significant and if there is a solution that can fix it or help minimize it I would recommend it to everyone.

-hobbycar

GrfxDan
2007.01.29, 06:42 PM
Cool! GrfxDan, I just emailed you. Let me know if you don't get it.

Yeah, this issue is really significant and if there is a solution that can fix it or help minimize it I would recommend it to everyone.

-hobbycar

Got your email. I'll be cutting some of the RF shields tonight and I'll mail one to you. Please let me know how well it works for you.

GrfxDan
2007.01.29, 10:48 PM
Okay, here are some images of the RF shields that I've made. I'll be sending some out to a few of you for testing. Please post back here with your results. If they work well for others I'll make them available for purchase (details to follow). It should be pointed out that these are not meant to be permanent - especially on the MA-010. You will have to peel back one side of the MA-010 RF Shield to swap batteries. There's a small tab on the corner to make this easier. There's also a small tab on the opposite corner for peeling back the other side to gain access to the motor. After you've swapped batteries a couple dozen times the adhesive will no longer hold and you'll need to install a new shield. You don't have to peel it back to swap batteries on an MR-02 but you would have to peel it back to adjust your wheelbase or change crystals.

Enough said. Here are the pictures:

http://dansdecals.com/minizimages/RFShields.jpg
http://dansdecals.com/minizimages/MA010RFShield.jpg
http://dansdecals.com/minizimages/MR02RFShield.jpg

I'm looking for a few more people to test these. If you're interested please email me direct with your name, address and what car you use (MA-010 or MR-02) and I'll get one mailed to you.

Dan
<><

arch2b
2007.01.30, 05:11 AM
email sent :)

svt-racer
2007.01.30, 05:47 AM
e-mail sent!

Thanks Dan for being pro-active!

GrfxDan
2007.01.30, 01:20 PM
By the way, to everyone that's getting sample RF shields for testing: If you make modifications to them such as trimming some of the front off of the MR-02 version to allow for better tag reading or cutting out a whole for the crystal (also MR-02) or trimming around the batter clip (MA-010), let me know what you did and what affect it had on the interference issue. I have not had an opportunity to test these shields extensively and make modifications - that's why I'm sending samples to all of you. As a side note, you will most likely have to position your core tag as far forward as possible. That's what I did and I never had a problem with it counting my laps. I don't know how well it will count laps if your tag is positioned directly above the shielded area.

The samples are going in the mail today. I look forward to hearing how they work for everyone.

hobbycar
2007.01.30, 02:33 PM
FYI, here is what SVT-Racer posted in another thread:

Things to consider to minimize glitches/interferences while driving on the track:

* Computer and core system should be connected to some sort of surge protector strip or plug for laptops with RF/EMI Noise Filter.

* A/C Outlet location should be far away for any noise source equipment.

* Laptop proximity to the core system and loop wire (should be as far as possible to minimize noise inteference)

* Other computers in the general area must be off due to potential noise generation/interference.

* WI-FI should be disabled in the computer you are running and any other computer in the near area.

* Shielded USB cables should be used at all times.

* Location of loop wire (i.e. Loop located next to a wall not recommended).

* Shielding material underneath the loop wire should always be used (Use thin piece of wood or matt underneath the loop wire) between the track and the floor.

* Frequency crystals - must use less problematic frequencies and allow on the transmitters on ONLY for the people racing. NO BODY ELSE SHOULD HAVE THEIR TRANSMITTER ON WHILE PEOPLE RACE. IMPLEMENT RADIO IMPOUND. VERY EASY TO DO.

* Transmitter signal strength (must have batteries fully charged to minimize potential noise interference with your radio signal).

* Potentially shield the PCB of the vehicle with some sore of metalic tape (i.e. chrome vinyl tape or perhaps copper tape) used underneath the vehicle.

Must remember that the core system work on the principle of a magnetic field generated around the loop wires, hence the interference field the car goes through when it crosses the loop. Need to suppress as much noise as possible around the PCB of the vehicles themselves.

hobbycar
2007.02.01, 01:05 PM
GrfxDan, I got the samples you sent. They look very professionally done (and shipped :D) and assuming they help with the interference you shouldn't have any trouble selling them.

Our next AA GTG isn't for another week or so but I'll let you know after then if these help at all.

-hobbycar

tzero
2007.02.01, 01:11 PM
When you have them available for purchase I think ill get a set for my MR-02.
I dont race or anything so glitching isint a big problem but the chrome makes it looks awsome.lol
BTW any chance of blue chrome?
Thanks, James

GrfxDan
2007.02.01, 02:08 PM
BTW any chance of blue chrome?

Actually, yes, I do have blue chrome (and green, red, gold, brushed, orange, purple, sky blue, black & pink chrome). However, the colored chrome vinyls use a different adhesive that's much tackier and would leave adhesive behind when you peeled it off. The adhesive can be easily removed using some shipping tape but you wouldn't be able to reapplied the shield after you've removed it; you'd have to replace it with a new one.

GrfxDan
2007.02.01, 02:09 PM
GrfxDan, I got the samples you sent.

Glad to hear they arrived. I'll be looking forward to your test results.

Dan
<><

MicroMotorSport
2007.02.02, 01:00 AM
Glad to hear they arrived. I'll be looking forward to your test results.

Dan
<><

Hey Dan,

We hold races on average 2x a month and every race day we get a racer or two that gets major glitch crossing the loop. So, I would definitely carry these in the shop.

Email me at: darren@micromotorsport.com to get my address.

Oh, when will your Mini Z Decals be ready? Do you have a sample sheet of those you can send? If need be I'll shoot you some $$ for it just let me know how much.

Thanks

Darren

GrfxDan
2007.02.02, 05:21 AM
Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all the interest in the RF shields. I have already sent out all of the free samples for testing that I'm going to (about a dozen of them). Once I get the results back and know that they're working well for others too, I will make them available for purchase (probably at shop.tinyrc.com). They will most likely retail for around $10 for a 10-pack + shipping. I'll post an update here when they are available. Hopefully that'll be within the next couple of weeks but it's up to the test group now.

Dan
<><

GrfxDan
2007.02.02, 05:30 AM
We hold races on average 2x a month and every race day we get a racer or two that gets major glitch crossing the loop. So, I would definitely carry these in the shop.

Email me at: darren@micromotorsport.com to get my address.

Oh, when will your Mini Z Decals be ready? Do you have a sample sheet of those you can send? If need be I'll shoot you some $$ for it just let me know how much.

Hi Darren, I'll repost on here when the shield are available for purchase. I'm waiting on results from the test group.

I don't have a launch date for my Mini Z Decals yet. Sorry. I purchased the domain after noticing a lack of quality 1:28 scale decals. I run a small sign/decal shop from home and thought I could fill in the void with some designs of my own but I haven't made the time to create them yet.

arch2b
2007.02.02, 07:46 AM
can you print on the vinyl/rf sheilds?

GrfxDan
2007.02.02, 09:17 AM
I don't have the capability to print on the chrome vinyl at this time but I am planning on purchasing equipment in the not-too-distant future that will give me that capability.

MicroMotorSport
2007.02.02, 09:41 PM
Thanks Dan, Keep in the loop.

arch2b
2007.02.05, 06:35 PM
i got my samples, thank you. we will try them this weekend.

GrfxDan
2007.02.05, 07:22 PM
i got my samples, thank you. we will try them this weekend.

Thanks, I hope they work as well for your club.

hobbycar
2007.02.11, 05:02 PM
Just wanted to post some initial findings from our AA GTG.

SVT-Racer was having Core glitches using XMod Channel 9 on his MR-02. He put the GrfxDan's MR-02 Chrome Vinyl sticker on the bottom of his chassis. After putting it on his car wouldn't turn on. He diagnosed it that the sticker was touching the two small battery tabs that stick out the bottom of the MR-02 chassis. So he pushed the tabs up a little more and put some electrical tape between the tabs and the Chrome Vinyl sticker and the car turned on just fine. Unfortunately after running with the Chrome Vinyl sticker he did not notice a significant decrease in Core glitches after a couple laps :(.

He ended up switching to another Channel before the end of the Qualifiers and the Mains and it ran fine with no Core Glitches (still had the Chrome Vinyl sticker on the bottom of his chassis).

Note that this is second hand info and very small/short testing. Hopefully SVT-Racer will have time to post his first hand experience.

No one else had any significant Core Glitches this past AA GTG. We will test again at our next AA GTG.

-hobbycar

GrfxDan
2007.02.11, 06:01 PM
Thanks for the feedback. We ran a local point series yesterday on a large track and the chrome vinyl shield once again helped reduce my core interference. It did not completely eliminate it but it did noticeably reduce it. I'm still waiting to hear from others on their findings.

Spoon
2007.02.11, 07:05 PM
One of our guys in Charlottesville (bnwhtlw) runs channel 2 and gets interference from the building. We don't run Core so I can't provide feedback on that but we'll be testing out a sample that I got from Arch this week (at the DCGTG). I'll report on how it works with the localized interference that we are seeing.

GrfxDan
2007.02.11, 07:30 PM
One of our guys in Charlottesville (bnwhtlw) runs channel 2 and gets interference from the building. We don't run Core so I can't provide feedback on that but we'll be testing out a sample that I got from Arch this week (at the DCGTG). I'll report on how it works with the localized interference that we are seeing.

The shield is positioned under the car specifically to reduce core interference; I wouldn't expect it to have any effect in reducing interference from other sources. In fact, I would be very suprised if it did help.

GrfxDan
2007.02.17, 09:52 AM
Has anyone else had a chance to test the samples that you received? I'd like some feedback from everyone that received them so I know whether or not to make them available for others to purchase.

svt-racer
2007.02.17, 02:54 PM
Just wanted to post some initial findings from our AA GTG.

SVT-Racer was having Core glitches using XMod Channel 9 on his MR-02. He put the GrfxDan's MR-02 Chrome Vinyl sticker on the bottom of his chassis. After putting it on his car wouldn't turn on. He diagnosed it that the sticker was touching the two small battery tabs that stick out the bottom of the MR-02 chassis. So he pushed the tabs up a little more and put some electrical tape between the tabs and the Chrome Vinyl sticker and the car turned on just fine. Unfortunately after running with the Chrome Vinyl sticker he did not notice a significant decrease in Core glitches after a couple laps :(.

He ended up switching to another Channel before the end of the Qualifiers and the Mains and it ran fine with no Core Glitches (still had the Chrome Vinyl sticker on the bottom of his chassis).

Note that this is second hand info and very small/short testing. Hopefully SVT-Racer will have time to post his first hand experience.

No one else had any significant Core Glitches this past AA GTG. We will test again at our next AA GTG.

-hobbycar

What hobbycar said was correct. I had a very strong CORE induced glitch when I ran channel 9. I would be flying through the start/finish line and the car would want to suddenly turn either left or right very violently. Also there was a noticeable power interruption to the motor...as if I was hitting a rev-limiter!!LOL!!

I went ahead and continued isolating the PCB by using aluminum/tin ducting tape. This tape is very thin and the glue is very tacky. I placed it on top of the PCB case (front to back) and inside the battery compartment of the MR-02. Prior to running in the qualifier, I tested the strength of the signal/transponder and it was still very very stong. Almost at 100% all the time. So I knew that the taping was not going to interfere with the pickup/readout of the transponder.

I tested again, during the next qualifier, still under channel 9, and I did not notice any significant improvement, but this time I decided to let off the throttle a little bit prior to crossing the loop. That help keeping the car under control.

For the main, I decided to switch channels from 9 down to 1. Ran the complete main without a single glitch at all. Something tells me that the CORE system interfere mainly with channel 9 (XMOD). I will not be running channel 9 again.

I recommend you guys test all the possible frequencies available in your race track to identify those troublesome ones and avoid them during qualifying and mains. During practice time, when the CORE system is not active, I have no issues with the frequency 9.

When I get a chance, I will take a picture of the car showing the areas where I shielded. ;)

pinwc4
2007.02.17, 03:08 PM
Interesting, I run XMOD channel 9 on my primary car and have not had the sort of problems you do, svt-racer. On rare occasion I have encountered interference so I did shield mine on our last race day but since I do not consistently or commonly have problems I can not say if it helped yet.

In my case I have a Firelap, not an MR-02, so maybe that is making a difference for me.

hobbycar
2007.02.17, 05:47 PM
My guess is the exact Channels that get glitches is affected by the location and position of the Core Loop (which changes slightly month to month for HFAY).

Last season I was fine for the first 3 months, then for 2 months had issues (I am pretty sure I was using channel 4) when we moved to a new location. Then we moved again and didn't seem to have as many Core glitches.

-hobbycar

arch2b
2007.02.18, 08:35 AM
we tested the stickers yesterday and we did not find any significant reduction in interference unfortunately. in one drivers case, it seemed to be worse yesterday as the day progressed. i think this had more to do with the specific car and core than the stickers.

i do have to say they were cut very well and fit nicely. for anyone looking to cut down on drag on the chassis bottom, these might be something to look into if they could be extended to cover gaps between the chassis and body.

they do have a nice bling factor to them :)

GrfxDan
2007.02.18, 09:02 AM
we tested the stickers yesterday and we did not find any significant reduction in interference unfortunately. in one drivers case, it seemed to be worse yesterday as the day progressed. i think this had more to do with the specific car and core than the stickers.

i do have to say they were cut very well and fit nicely. for anyone looking to cut down on drag on the chassis bottom, these might be something to look into if they could be extended to cover gaps between the chassis and body.

they do have a nice bling factor to them :)

Thanks for the review. If they aren't helping eliminate interference for other people I would not want to sell them as RF shields. They do seem to help on my car quite a bit so I'll continue to use them at least for our HFAY mains. If anyone else wants some either to try them as RF shields or just for the bling factor, you can contact me for ordering instructions.

Arch, if the shop wants to sell them just let me know.

arch2b
2007.02.18, 09:07 AM
while we may have not have seen any of the benifits, that does not mean others might not. dc has a pre-production core unit which is another thing to take into consideration.

as i mentioned, your cutouts were right on. if you could parlay this into other things as well, you have lots of potential. the work is certainly good enough.

hobbycar
2007.02.18, 10:16 AM
They do have really cool bling factor.

Note the Kyosho Mini-Z Teflon Chassis Protector Sheet MZW108 (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=16776&cat=0&page=1) sell for 8.99 and the HPI Carbon Fiber Decal Sheet sells for 2.99.

I would also suggest making Micro-T shaped ones.

-hobbycar

GrfxDan
2007.02.18, 02:39 PM
They do have really cool bling factor.

Note the Kyosho Mini-Z Teflon Chassis Protector Sheet MZW108 (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=16776&cat=0&page=1) sell for 8.99 and the HPI Carbon Fiber Decal Sheet sells for 2.99.

I would also suggest making Micro-T shaped ones.

-hobbycar

I was totally unaware of the products you mentioned. I can make these decals in a variety of colors - including carbon fiber. As for Micro-T shaped ones, I'd have to get my hands on a Micro-T. I'll see if anyone in our club has one.