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builthatch
2006.12.01, 07:31 PM
i picked up one of these things...i noticed there are 3 LED for the 4 batteries, the last light seems like it'll light once there are two batteries installed underneath it, what's weird is they all flash red and blue EXCEPT that one, which flashes mostly red, but blue everyone once in a while inbetween red flashes.

what is the story with both colors? basically, are they all supposed to be at .7v when on the board, when the lights go out?

i have a trinity d90 i use for my sub c packs and it's got a light per battery as well as a total pack light. it's alot more intuitive.

also, does anyone know if the cells are left on the pn board, will they keep discharging past the point when the lights go out? like, i dont have to pull them as soon as the lights go out, do i?

thanks.

lfisminiz
2006.12.01, 10:10 PM
The lights, im not sure. But your supposed to be able to leave batts on discharger after lights go out. It cuts out at certain volts.

shuter
2006.12.01, 11:27 PM
There was a thread about this a while back and someone said that the PN Discharger will continue to deplete the batteries even after the lights go out. I have one and use it regularly. I was dispointed to hear I had to monitor it to keep from over discharging my batteries and do not let them stay overnight. I monitor the discharger pretty closely and pull them when the lights go out. I use intellects and have the strongest batteries in our little club.

builthatch
2006.12.01, 11:58 PM
There was a thread about this a while back and someone said that the PN Discharger will continue to deplete the batteries even after the lights go out. I have one and use it regularly. I was dispointed to hear I had to monitor it to keep from over discharging my batteries and do not let them stay overnight. I monitor the discharger pretty closely and pull them when the lights go out. I use intellects and have the strongest batteries in our little club.

hmm...well, they claim a cutoff of 7V; i've been testing the terminals with them mounted using my multimeter and indeed the lights seem to stop around 6.5-7, however, it does indeed seem to bring them down to 5, almost 4! Should i be pissed about this? I dunno, it seems like it's not doing what it should be doing....meaning, i should be able to leave them in, not have to remove them as soon as the lights stop, right?

i have noticed another thing- it seems that one battery always takes a LONG time to discharge. The spot on the tray doesn't matter, and it happens with different sets of batteries. I've been cycling my two sets of Intellects because they've never been cycled and i've been noticing that per each set, one of the batteries doesn't seem to discharge nearly as fast as the rest. They hold charge when charged to within a hundredth of a volt of each other, which is nice, but i'm curious about the one battery thing. I dunno, i will continue with it and see.

SHUTER, do you know where this thread is? I looked around before i posted this and didnt see anything like what you said other than someone named like tytooo or something made a post about it.

Thanks.

shuter
2006.12.02, 01:43 AM
Sorry I don't remember the thread about the discharger but the issue about discharging down to a point that was not good for the batteries was talked about. Seems as there was agreement that .7 volts was good but .4 was not. I don't remember if it was difinative about the potential battery damage but it bothered me enough to watch the discharger pretty closely and remove the batteries when the lights go out. I guess I should get a multi meter and learn how to use it. EMU might have chimed in on the issue.

builthatch
2006.12.03, 02:31 PM
Sorry I don't remember the thread about the discharger but the issue about discharging down to a point that was not good for the batteries was talked about. Seems as there was agreement that .7 volts was good but .4 was not. I don't remember if it was difinative about the potential battery damage but it bothered me enough to watch the discharger pretty closely and remove the batteries when the lights go out. I guess I should get a multi meter and learn how to use it. EMU might have chimed in on the issue.

this discharger sucks...it totally doesn't cut-off at .7V and ontop of that it randomly chooses to NOT discharge one cell, doesn't matter what cell or where it is on the board.

I am going to return it ASAP.

This further perpetuates my bad feeling about PN stuff; i really do not like their offerings at all. From the slow bearings, to the crookedly tapped wheel nuts, to the inconsistent motors to now this poorly designed discharger...I have gotten more poor products from them than good.

At any rate, does anyone have a recommendation for a product that actually works? Like i mentioned, i have a Trinity tray for my sub c's that indeed cuts off at .9V as advertised now matter how long the pack is on there. I'd be interested in a tray that works similarly for my AAA's and even AA's if possible.

Spoon
2006.12.03, 02:42 PM
Well, I know Atomic makes a AAA discharger. I don't see it on EGR yet though.

builthatch
2006.12.03, 02:58 PM
Well, I know Atomic makes a AAA discharger. I don't see it on EGR yet though.

hmm, yeah, i was looking at that too...i have more faith in atomic stuff for sure!

pchan0
2006.12.03, 06:29 PM
hmm, yeah, i was looking at that too...i have more faith in atomic stuff for sure!

Does your discharger discharges each cell individually? How many amps? Around 2.5 - 3.5 amps are okay for the AAAs. I use a Novak Smart Tray that is meant for sub C as well but have no problem doing AAAs.

builthatch
2006.12.03, 08:07 PM
Does your discharger discharges each cell individually? How many amps? Around 2.5 - 3.5 amps are okay for the AAAs. I use a Novak Smart Tray that is meant for sub C as well but have no problem doing AAAs.

unfortunately, no...it only does each cell individually when assembled and installed in the d-90 as a pack, and 6 cells at that.

the aaa's fit in the spots on the smart tray pretty well or is it a precarious fit?

i have a charger that can discharge individual cells, but a tray would be ideal as it's pretty silly to discharge an aaa individually with a charger hehe (mrc superbrain 977)

any other ideas guys?

Spoon
2006.12.03, 08:29 PM
any other ideas guys?

Check your other thread.

Spec-C MA-010
2006.12.06, 07:15 AM
hmm, yeah, i was looking at that too...i have more faith in atomic stuff for sure!

builthatch: I know of you from the SOHC forums I have to say you where the one that kept me from swapping out my D16Y. Anyhoo, I just purchased the Atomic board I have not tested the cutoff but here is my review.

Packaging is very attractive, it comes in an awesome looking storage box and the casing is very nice, they even cut out the bottom in a flame patter for looking purposes. There are 8 individual thumbscrews (2 per cell) and 4 LEDs, the tray has indentation that cradle the batteries perfectly, and the screws are flat at the ends so they can better contact the the cells.

Now my gripes: the thumbscrews are too small for my fat fingers but they have a phiilips head pattern so you can easily use a screwdriver to tighten them, also after just one use on of the LEDs went out; but the board is laid out so nice that it would be really easy to change it out (Iím just too lazy to do it). I know its working because the bank of resistors does get hot.

I need to get a quality meter to be able to test the cutoff and provide that info.

CDR racing
2006.12.06, 04:55 PM
Builthatch,
I have the PN discharger and i havn't had any problems with it. In fact i dont know of anyone at ARCMS that has. I have never tested them with a multimeter but i know there has been no difference in speed and run time. I have been using my Intellects for over a year now and i have only gotten rid of two sets, one of which was last week. Keep in mind i charge with an Energizer 15 min. which isn't exactly good for them, and one of the sets went dead before i even had the discharger. I know some PN stuff sux (BEARINGS!) but i havn't had any problem with the discharger. Y ou may have just gotten a crappy one.

benmlee
2006.12.06, 06:48 PM
Builthatch,
I know some PN stuff sux (BEARINGS!) but i havn't had any problem with the discharger. Y ou may have just gotten a crappy one.

How come you say the PN bearings sucks. I just got some and installed them. Seems pretty good so far. They are way better than the 3 racing bearings that I had before. Those had too much slop between the shaft and bearing. Ended up chewing up the pinion gear. Learned my lesson there on cheap parts.

builthatch
2006.12.07, 07:28 PM
Spec-C: glad that i was able to help you on d-series.org. I am still an active admin over there and still have my sohc hatch. Thanks for the Atomic review. I got early weird from resident Atomic geek Pchan0 and he said the Atomic unit did not seem to cut-off properly. Please let me know what you find.

Crop: I actually called Al about this unit around the time i bought it, he said he has sold some and i remember you telling me you had one and it was working well for you. I researched this thing and Shuter referred me to a thread where Eugene indicated his discharged past .7 despite the claimed cut-off. My main problem isn't the continuous discharging, but i do fear that if left on they might go into reversal. At any rate, the problem i have with it, the main problem, is how the one slot discharges slowly and issues a reading that is higher than the rest vs. if i moved that cell to another slot and took a reading. It's very strange.

Benmlee: I have bought the following defective items from PN-

Alloy wheel nuts- they were drilled crooked and did not stay on

PN bearings- EXTREMELY SLOW, almost no-free spin once mounted despite repeated attempts at thorough cleaning. I understand drag from different shield materials and packings and this was far beyond any of that.

PN Speedy 05- one developed an extremely wobbly armature due to a bearing failure, the next one i got right from the package from a complete dog, despite attempts at shimming and breaking in properly....the thing was simply out of time COMPLETELY in some fashion. Also, it was super-misaligned (comm vs. brushes) out of the package.

M18 spur gear shaft support ring- The ring simply did not fit around the shaft holder. It was entirely too big

PN Discharger

I know that many of you have had good experiences with PN. I have gotten a few things from them that have been fine, including their front spring sets and the an0113 fets which in my opinion are incredible. It's simply a roll of the dice with quality control, that's all.

all seems well, i got the 1ntegy piece and i'm testing it as we speak!

Shaun
2006.12.08, 12:21 PM
Does your discharger discharges each cell individually? How many amps? Around 2.5 - 3.5 amps are okay for the AAAs. I use a Novak Smart Tray that is meant for sub C as well but have no problem doing AAAs.

I've used the Novak Tray for AAA's also. Works fine. Batteries don't fit perfect but fit tight enough not to pop out.

builthatch
2006.12.08, 10:21 PM
I've used the Novak Tray for AAA's also. Works fine. Batteries don't fit perfect but fit tight enough not to pop out.

true, but it doesn't do aa's ; )

well here's the deal with the 1nt3gy piece...

it works very well for aaa and aa. The bulbs go out at .7 and it'll keep discharging, but according to Int3gy, that is just fine. as i mentioned previously, they actually recommend leaving them until they reach 0.0 then removing them. I've found that at around 2.4V, the cells really slow down and equalize. The unit is of a very high quality, not cheesy like alot of this stuff that's out there.

my intellects now take on a bigger charge, and actually hold it for quite some time after the charge, before settling in the 1.4something range. They all end up, after the charge, within a few hundredths of a volt of each other, which is very impressive.

the biggest beef i have with it is how incredibly TEDIOUS it is to switch the holders to AA mode from AAA mode. OMG, what a trial in patience. You have to unscrew the set screws, slide the poles out, and that is if you can get the plastic bushings off of the poles- they are VERY tight from the factory. Once you get them out, you have to put the poles back in, line them up with each other and screw the set screws back. Also, you have to remove these other plastic bushings from the center of each end holder....

it's just a pain in the a$s because it's so time consuming. I reamed the bushings out slightly, i mean they spun on the reamer but i worked them a little more and they slide nicely now, but still....

so, all in all, i see it like this-

i'll use it the most for aaa's, obviously. for aa's, really, ill use it once in a blue moon to cycle my RX cells, but no often, so no biggie i guess...

Spoon
2006.12.08, 10:43 PM
the biggest beef i have with it is how incredibly TEDIOUS it is to switch the holders to AA mode from AAA mode. OMG, what a trial in patience. You have to unscrew the set screws, slide the poles out, and that is if you can get the plastic bushings off of the poles- they are VERY tight from the factory. Once you get them out, you have to put the poles back in, line them up with each other and screw the set screws back. Also, you have to remove these other plastic bushings from the center of each end holder....




YES YES YES, huge pain in the A$$. There is no way I was going to use it for both when I had it.

pchan0
2006.12.08, 11:49 PM
I've used the Novak Tray for AAA's also. Works fine. Batteries don't fit perfect but fit tight enough not to pop out.

Sweet Shaun, the new SE is much better than the old unit. I'm liking the way they treat my Intellects, very good unit for AAAs...

shuter
2007.02.05, 02:32 AM
Since this thread was started by Builthatch who reported problems with his PN discharger, I bought a multimeter to verify what my PN Discharger was doing with my batteries and found the following:

It discharges at a rate of about 1C (the optimum rate of discharge for NiMH AAA batteries.

When the discharger lights go out the batteries are discharged to .9 volts. The batteries test closer to .7 volts when tested immeditely after removing them from the discharger but when allowed to stabilize for 10 minutes they test at .9 volts. That is about 99% depleted and is the recommended discharge point for a discharger seperate from a very smart charger/discharger.

All four batteries appear to be discharging at the same rate.

All four batteries are discharged to the same depletion point within a couple hundredths of a volt.

If the batteries are left in the discharger for 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, or even 48 hours they still test out at just under .9 volts. (again allowing the batteries 10 minutes to stabilize before testing)

My PN discharger is easy to use and works perfectly! :)

lfisminiz
2007.02.06, 07:16 PM
I totally agree, simple and easy to use. ;)

builthatch
2007.02.06, 08:15 PM
I totally agree, simple and easy to use. ;)

meh, mine sucked but it was defective, so oh well ; )

the 1ntegy piece works great for me.