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Jonny
2007.01.17, 04:34 PM
Hi Guys,

I have a brand new Atomic Standard motor which I took along to the 12 Hour LeMans in Germany. When I installed it, there was no movement and it seemed dead.

Tried the connections and also Jo (avant) put some motor cleaner through it but nothing. I believe some guys tested it on an ICE charger and they did get it spinning but it was slow and RED HOT.

Anyway, we did suspect the manufacture to be faulty and I was going to return it but just dumped it in my parts box until this evening.

I decided to open it up and all I could see was that one of the winds that hooks around the tab wasn't in place - please see link to pic below:

Atomic Standard Motor Problems (http://mini-zracer.com/mini-zgallery/data/985/Dodgy_Commresize.jpg)

I corrected it, cleaned it all up and put it back together and it seems to run fine BUT it gets very warm very quickly...

Could any of you guys that run this motor or motor experts let me know if your motors have this same temperature hike or if you perhaps have any other suggestions - is it safe to run or will it cause strain on my FET's?!

Thanks, Jonny

arch2b
2007.01.17, 05:20 PM
our club has run this motor in our spec class last season for 6 months without any problems. i've only noticed heat issues with the awd which every motor seems to have though.

i've run this in f1, overland, mr-02 and ma-010 with no problems and no worrying heat issues.

i believe you got a bad/faulty motor right out of the package.

TheRinger
2007.01.17, 05:36 PM
I think arch is right. I run one in my overland and one in my 4562 fetted mr02 and I believe one in my f-1 and they work fine, sounds like a bad motor.

Jonny
2007.01.17, 06:15 PM
@ Arch & The Ringer,

Thanks for your comments, I understand that a lot of guys have run this motor and that it is indeed under scrutineering at the moment....

I realise that it is faulty from the off but just wondered how fast heat came to the motor in for instance, an AWD (mine gets warm after 10 seconds of blipping the throttle) and if the heat that mine is producing could be harmful to my FET's, even though the motor seems to run fine now?

Jonny

arch2b
2007.01.17, 07:23 PM
i have yet to run a motor in my awd that does not get hot. my sons stock motor gets hot enough to almost melt the plastic.

mauromj
2007.01.17, 09:06 PM
Is the atomic stock motor the best motor for stock fets?

arch2b
2007.01.17, 09:16 PM
'best' is a subjective term. it's the best for me but that does not mean its the best for you.

there are several other stock motors to choose from. pn, mini-zworkshop, atomic all make stock class motors.

cembom
2007.01.18, 04:02 PM
Yeah the Ma010 is a motor killer lol. It causes them too run so hot. Do you have tthe aluminum hopups around the motor? Oh and nice car by the way.

LBRC
2007.01.18, 05:52 PM
Looking at the photo that is not the way the wires on an Atomic Stock armature should look, they appear to have been hand wound by a chimpanzee, and are so uneven that there is no way the wire length on the three arms are even and balanced, so it will run very hot and not well at all.

Donít have an Atomic Stock opened up but this photo should give you an idea of what it should have looked like, obviously not as even as the left hand wound but at least somthing like the right machine wound rotor.

Jonny
2007.01.18, 07:21 PM
@cembom - Yes, motors do tend to run hot in there especially the stock motor. In this case however, it is a sure fault with the crappy production :( It gets very hot even in an MR-02 and quite warm just running hooked up to a single AAA.

@LBRC - I appreciate your info - I think you are right about the 'chimpanzee wind'! I guess this is why I'm having the heat issues. It seems to have too much drag just when spinning the shaft by hand. Could these problems cause my FET's to burn and should I not run it at all? It does seem to run other than the heat.

Appreciate it,

Jonny

avant
2007.01.19, 01:31 AM
@Jonny - after opening the can I'd start to optimize the motor ...
Will mean:
- optimize the timing (is it set correctly?)
- optimize the connection from the commutator to the wiring
- optimize the balance of the armature in total
- make it turning better in the can (you have a certain influence on that by how you fix the endbell ...) Test the turning without the brushes in the can

If you've done this I'm pretty sure, that you'll have much fun with the motor on the track !

Cheers,

Jo

byebye
2007.01.19, 03:09 AM
Remember though guys it's an Atomic Standard right Jonny? Maybe drop it in another can and give that a try. The tension of the brushes could also be a problem along with loose magnets. Also the bushings could be very dry or the shaft to large for the hole.

-Byebye

Jonny
2007.01.19, 03:47 AM
Hopefully I'll be able to do some more testing today.

@ avant - Thanks Jo! Well perhaps those tasks would be easier for you to perform than me, remember the arm balancing tutorial we had? ;) Maybe I'll fire some more questions your way!

@ byebye - Yes mate, it is the Atomic Standard. The brush tension seems OK to me. The bushes have had good lube on them and I believe the shaft fitment is OK but I'll check again. The magnets are definitely fine. I did think of trying a different can to be honest but have only opened it the once so far to take the pics and sort that wire out to see if the damn thing would even turn again with power going through it! Perhaps I'll crack open the AWD Stock BB Motor and see what happens.

Thanks again,

Jonny

LBRC
2007.01.19, 05:02 AM
I thought this photo would help explain the motors problem.
http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album105/motor_problem.jpg
The wires wrapped around the rotors create three magnetic fields if the wire lengths and their shape when wrapped around each arm are different then the magnet field strength for that arms side will be different and pull the armature off center. This armature is so poorly wound that I would be surprised if there isnít at least a turnís difference between each arm not to mention wire length difference and shape distortions, it would be like adding a lead weight to one side.

byebye
2007.01.19, 05:10 AM
That pic really really shows how bad the wind was.

Okay guys so Jonny and I had a "blind folded motor winding" contest. I'll put it to you this way. You don't want to see mine!!!LOL.J/K

Unfortunately Jonny you might get better performance dropping a stock Kyosho armature into that can and not even both with the bad armature.

Though I'm not surprised its bad. Every new Atomic motor I've had the pleasure of using has needed a touch up on the brushes.

-Byebye

Jonny
2007.01.19, 05:26 AM
@ LBRC - I really appreciate your pic comparison to mine and the information on the winding. I'm a ways behind with motor tech and I suppose receiving a dodgy motor is one way to learn! I can't believe it made it out of the factory as it is! It's a shame but that's life.

@ byebye - Joker! That's what it looks like for sure! I guess something can rise from this motor anyhow as you say, even though it isn't a BB can :( I guess this is the motor to experiment with...

And about the Atomic motors - don't put them all down, we love the AWD Stock don't we?! :D

Jonny

Ninja
2007.01.19, 05:49 AM
wow, that is the worst winding I have ever seen. Hard to believe that something like that came from a good company like atomic. They usually have great products.

soyverde
2007.01.20, 06:30 PM
I'm late to the party but I just wanted to throw in that I've been using an atomic standard in my MA010 for the last six months or so (for our DC spec series), and I haven't noticed it getting any hotter than the stock motor. It's a shame you got a bad one, I'm running 4 or 5 (in various chassis) without any problems. :(

Hope this isn't a sign of widespread quality issues with Atomic's motors.

Jonny
2007.01.20, 07:17 PM
I'm late to the party but I just wanted to throw in that I've been using an atomic standard in my MA010 for the last six months or so (for our DC spec series), and I haven't noticed it getting any hotter than the stock motor. It's a shame you got a bad one, I'm running 4 or 5 (in various chassis) without any problems. :(

Hope this isn't a sign of widespread quality issues with Atomic's motors.
Thanks for your input, Soyverde.

Glad to hear your ATM Standard's are all fine. So far everyone seems happy with their ATM motors, apart from the odd adjustment here and there and perhaps the harder to solder than normal brush tabs. Hopefully I just have a rare manufacturing fault :( I must say I'm shocked at how poorly put together this one is.

Jonny

arch2b
2007.01.20, 07:28 PM
every manuf. puts out a dud now and then.... some more than others but atomic has a good track record from consumer feedback on this forum.

byebye
2007.01.21, 03:58 AM
I know Jonny is by no means downtalking Atomics motors. Very few of us actually inspect the motor before use. In Jonny's case(and Team International) it was a spare motor for the 12 hour race.

When our Atomic AWD Stock motor had poor soldered connections we switched to a brand new atomic standard and it had no response. We were pretty shocked ourselves and that wasn't exactly the best time for it to happen.

Also like most of us who purchase overseas, spending the money to send back a $15 motor for them to determine wether or not to replace it is usually not cost effective. It's good to see so many members give input on a possible solution for this "dodgy" ;)motor.

-Byebye

Jonny
2007.01.21, 07:17 AM
I know Jonny is by no means downtalking Atomics motors. Very few of us actually inspect the motor before use. In Jonny's case(and Team International) it was a spare motor for the 12 hour race.

When our Atomic AWD Stock motor had poor soldered connections we switched to a brand new atomic standard and it had no response. We were pretty shocked ourselves and that wasn't exactly the best time for it to happen.

Also like most of us who purchase overseas, spending the money to send back a $15 motor for them to determine wether or not to replace it is usually not cost effective. It's good to see so many members give input on a possible solution for this "dodgy" ;)motor.

-Byebye
Thanks byebye,

Hopefully I didn't come across as downtalking the Atomic brand! :eek: I have many of their products and the only other motor I have (AWD Stock) I'm in love with...! I completely realise that manufacturer's aren't perfect. Just a shock, as byebye says and I probably in all truthfulness didn't expect a dud over any of the other motors out there.

And you're right about timing....in the heat of a 12 hour race and a motor swap that you didn't want to do in the first place, we didn't really need another dud! But then, that's another point I guess in regards to preperation and learning for these types of events - this motor could have been tested prior to the race by myself... :rolleyes:

You've outlined my main intentions perfectly byebye and the shipping etc back to the Far East isn't worth the bother, hence hopefully some sort of good can come from everybody's input on the subject.

Still haven't got back to doing anything with it as yet either, it goes onto my 'things to do' list :D

Jonny

arch2b
2007.01.21, 09:14 AM
i don't think anyone is taking it that way.

i just think atomic has a very good reputation and it's very possible you could still get a dud part from them. it happens. i feel the same way for all manufactureres. some are good and you still get a dud from them at times. ask spoon about pn racing...

i think maybe my comment was misunderstood?

byebye
2007.01.21, 12:03 PM
Oh no it wasn't arch2b ;) :) .

It was this one:
Hope this isn't a sign of widespread quality issues with Atomic's motors.
I do believe though that you should always inspect the solder joints of all motors. In our case 3/3 had weak joints.

Yes all manufactures have that percentage of failure. Just comes with mass production. OR we were sabotaged!!!LOL.

In the end though we learned a valuable lesson about race preperation :o and what to look for.

I own two Atomic motors. An atm stock and atm T2 and both freakin ROCK!!!

Sorry edited like 5 times!

-Byebye

soyverde
2007.01.21, 12:43 PM
Okay, I didn't realize it was my fault, I was referring to both Jonny's post (that picture isn't pretty), and byebye's statement:

Though I'm not surprised its bad. Every new Atomic motor I've had the pleasure of using has needed a touch up on the brushes.

Not trying to start rumors (I love these motors), I am just hoping it's not a sign of things to come. Sorry if I started something negative there. :o

byebye
2007.01.21, 12:50 PM
Okay, I didn't realize it was my fault, I was referring to both Jonny's post (that picture isn't pretty), and byebye's statement:



Not trying to start rumors (I love these motors), I am just hoping it's not a sign of things to come. Sorry if I started something negative there. :o

No ones fault soyverde just glad that it hasn't turned into an "bad Atomic motors" thread.

I think that I'm more aware now of race preparation then I ever was. Solder joints is somthing I've far overlooked. I think it's just a different type of metal used on the brushes. Maybe they didn't have this problem before but it's somthing to be aware of.

I don't want to get off topic and I appreciate all the input for sure :D ;)

-Byebye

soyverde
2007.01.21, 01:05 PM
I have to admit, I have had issues with my motor wires coming off of the solder tabs on a couple of these, but I'd rather blame that on my terrible soldering skills. :D

Jonny
2007.01.21, 01:14 PM
I have to admit, I have had issues with my motor wires coming off of the solder tabs on a couple of these, but I'd rather blame that on my terrible soldering skills. :D
No, no don't worry - A LOT of guys in Europe have has this issue and you really need to file those tabs down to the copper colour to get a nice solid joint. I'd be surprised if stateside there haven't been problems?

Jonny

homestar21
2007.01.21, 02:00 PM
arch2b mntioned miniz workshop. Is it still up? i tried the site, with no response. PN and Atomic work, but MZW doesn't. :confused:

arch2b
2007.01.21, 03:24 PM
we do... i tend to scratch up the tabs and make sure the solder covers both the front and back of the tab. anytime it's blobed onm jsut one side the wires tend to pop off with vibration.

arch2b
2007.01.21, 03:30 PM
arch2b mntioned miniz workshop. Is it still up? i tried the site, with no response. PN and Atomic work, but MZW doesn't. :confused:
they no longer sell directly i think. they made the jump to sell to retailers instead of direct sales