PDA

View Full Version : Maha 1000 Mah AAA cells: got 'em?


Sinister_Y
2007.02.23, 09:38 AM
Hi All,

Was fortunate enough to get 2 MH-C9000 chargers and want some new cells to use seeing as all my other cells are now very old. I have GP 850/950, Intellect 750/ PN 800/ PN 780 and Sanyo 900 cells right now with the Gp950 being the best cells.

I was looking for feedback on the Maha 1000 Mah cells. Anybody bought them and use them? The only other option was that I was thinking of picking up all Sanyo 1000 Mah cells.

shuter
2007.02.23, 09:50 AM
Hi All,

Was fortunate enough to get 2 MH-C9000 chargers and want some new cells to use seeing as all my other cells are now very old. I have GP 850/950, Intellect 750/ PN 800/ PN 780 and Sanyo 900 cells right now with the Gp950 being the best cells.

I was looking for feedback on the Maha 1000 Mah cells. Anybody bought them and use them? The only other option was that I was thinking of picking up all Sanyo 1000 Mah cells.

I think you are going to love the charger. It seems to be of very high quality and is easy to use.

I have not used the Maha batteries but have a question. Why are you using the 900 - 1000 mAh batteries? Aren't they heavier than the 750 mAh batteries?

GrfxDan
2007.02.23, 10:13 AM
I'm not sure the mAh rating affects the weight. I have some 750mAh batteries that are heavier than some other 900mAh batteries that I have. Having said that, the mAh rating indicates the longevity of the batteries, not the power/punch they'll put out. It's my understanding that voltage is what really counts. Batteries that charge to a higher voltage will be faster than batteries that charge to lower voltages.

GrfxDan
2007.02.23, 10:15 AM
by the way, if you're running endurance races and want to run the batteries as long as possible before swapping them out, then 1000mAh batteries would be the way to go.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.23, 10:39 AM
good point. I don't know, i never weighed them. I was just going by total capacity and average voltage (I matched all of the cells individually using my LRP Pulsar 2 charger). The GP950 gave the most voltage, even over the intellect. So, punch, but longer punch. They may weight more...plus I'm running ad band and fetted cars usually. The stock cars, i usually use the intellects and pn cells for, i.e. less drain on the batteries due to stock.

Hood
2007.02.23, 10:50 AM
I have been using the old chargers for quite some time, and recently became a dealer for them. I am currently charging two packs for the first time on the 9000s. I wanted to test these cells and see how they perform.

I will let you know what I think of them when they get a couple cycles through them..

shuter
2007.02.23, 11:15 AM
My intellects weigh an average of 12.6 Grams
Kodak 700mAh batteries average 12.2 Grams

I just assumed that the higher the mAh rating the higher the weight. I guess if they are not heavier we might as well use them. Can you guys weigh your various brands and mAh ratings and post the weights?

GfxDan - It does appear that Voltage may = punch but there are other factors as well relating to overall battery health. Battery internal resistance for example. Internal resistance restricts current flow. We may find that it is a factor. Example: Battery A has a Volt rating of 1.5 Volts, Battery B has a Volt rating of 1.4 Volts. Battery A has higher internal resistance due to damage caused by high rate charging causing a restriction to current flow. Battery B has more punch. This may prove to be the case.

GrfxDan
2007.02.23, 11:42 AM
My intellects weigh an average of 12.6 Grams
Kodak 700mAh batteries average 12.2 Grams

I just assumed that the higher the mAh rating the higher the weight. I guess if they are not heavier we might as well use them. Can you guys weigh your various brands and mAh ratings and post the weights?

GfxDan - It does appear that Voltage may = punch but there are other factors as well relating to overall battery health. Battery internal resistance for example. Internal resistance restricts current flow. We may find that it is a factor. Example: Battery A has a Volt rating of 1.5 Volts, Battery B has a Volt rating of 1.4 Volts. Battery A has higher internal resistance due to damage caused by high rate charging causing a restriction to current flow. Battery B has more punch. This may prove to be the case.

Okay, so how do you measure internal resistance?

shuter
2007.02.23, 12:03 PM
Okay, so how do you measure internal resistance?

I don't know.... Wish I did. You can read about it at Battery University.com. Part Two BU-31 & BU-32. Also, BU-48 about zapping is interesting. See what you think.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.23, 03:17 PM
The ICE charger does that from what I understand. There maybe more chargers that do it, but I know it has that functionality.

jbevins
2007.02.23, 04:13 PM
yes the ICE charger does measure internal resistance but only when discharging and then you have to discharge your pack for atleast 2 mins for the charger to measure the resistance and give a reading

avant
2007.02.24, 01:44 AM
yes the ICE charger does measure internal resistance but only when discharging and then you have to discharge your pack for atleast 2 mins for the charger to measure the resistance and give a reading
To select your cells you should measure each cell individually ...

At the CRC we've tested many cells and the cells with the lowest resistance on the market so far:

Newtecs NT 900AAAP
Vapex 1100 mAh
Ansmann 1000 mAh

Cheers,

Jo

Ninja
2007.02.24, 08:48 AM
I dont know about the resistance, but a guy I race with runs the new Duracel 1000mAh batteries, and its like he has a FET stack in his car. He has alot of punch with them and they have been that way since day one. He uses the Energizer charger to charge them. I am going to be getting some of these soon :D

LBRC
2007.02.24, 04:33 PM
Was playing around with different batteries last summer, and started some on going practical tests to see if any of the different cells could yield measurable differences on the track.

For the test car I used/use a Tagu 1/24 conversion with an Atomic Z2 since the car is heavy but very stable so that my 50 lap times are very consistent with it. For the tests first I used a Triton to run three charge-discharge cycles on each individual cell then charged the 4 cell sets using a LRP Pulsar Comp 2 with a single charge – discharge- charge cycle before each of a minimum of three consistent 50 lap trials per battery. Might sound like a lot of work but it wasn’t since I just incorporated it into my daily routine averaging 8 to 12 test runs per week using the lap timer and computer to keep track of the times and swapping out favorite batteries with friends to try as many different batteries as possible.

First thing I noticed was that after a while you really can “feel” the difference in some cells, the second was that many clearly different cells are sold under the same brand name, even with the same rated capacities. For instance we ended up testing three types of 1000 mAh Sanyo’s with different lables; one was a clear winner, one ok, and the third was not worth the money.

So far I’ve run through well over a dozen different brands/types, and of course the results are not exactly accurate or conclusive since for most I only had one set to test some new some not. For example the only set of Atomic 800 mAh cells that I borrowed had at an estimate well over 100 charges by a none to friendly charger compared to 6 sets of Intellects ranging from brand new and/or well kept to horribly abused so a new set of the Atomics might have done much better. I started loosely grouping the batteries into three classes good, ok, and not worth the money but after awhile gave that up too and simply started looking for ones that clearly stood out as being a cut above. None of what I refer to as the department store and camera shop cells have done very well, these include the Duracell’s and above mentioned third Sanyo purchased from a camera shop. The one notable exception that I haven’t tried yet are the IC3’s since to be fair to them I would need to try them with their charger, I do know someone who uses and swears by them the problem being that I've never seen him or his car actually finish “cough-cough” as few as 50 laps.

A friend has a set of Powerex 1000mAh cells by MAHA Energy model # MHRAAA2 they where fairly new and came out as ok but nothing special.

So far only two 1000mAh batteries have clearly stood out as being a cut above the rest. One is a Sanyo (model # unknown) that has “Superlattice Alloy” on a white label with an orange bar at the (-) end and blue letters, selling for around $11to $14 for a set of four. The other and my current battery of choice do to nearly identical results with a friendlier price tag, is the Fujicell #HR-4H/AAA 1000mAh NiMH which oddly enough looks a lot like the Sanyo with it’s white label, orange bar at the (-) end, and blue lettering. I have now tried several sets of both these batteries in several different cars with a wide variety of motors, and although I can’t say definitively that they are hands down the best I can say that either is well worth the money.

One odd note is that where you get your batteries from does seem to make a difference I suppose this has a lot to do with shelf-life (age), storage, and handling conditions.

ChattavegasSE
2007.02.24, 05:09 PM
I dont know about the resistance, but a guy I race with runs the new Duracel 1000mAh batteries, and its like he has a FET stack in his car. He has alot of punch with them and they have been that way since day one. He uses the Energizer charger to charge them. I am going to be getting some of these soon :D
:o :o :o Gosh, Lamar, thanks for the endorsment. :o :o :o

Sinister_Y
2007.02.24, 10:26 PM
thanks mate. I may try a few packs of the fuji...

shuter
2007.02.25, 02:51 PM
One odd note is that where you get your batteries from does seem to make a difference I suppose this has a lot to do with shelf-life (age), storage, and handling conditions.

Thanks for passing along your battery testing info. Where do you recommend buying the Fujies?

LBRC
2007.02.25, 04:52 PM
I got my first set off of eBay (anyone with a high turnover rate and newer packaging) staying away from “Discount Wholesales” or anyone else who you suspect might be selling factory seconds and/or overage stock, and then a couple of sets from Circuit Specialists good price but shipping starts at around $16 so unless your ordering other items...

After deciding that they would make a great “house” battery (as in “house whine” good quality at an affordable price) for clubs/stores/tracks I went in with a few friends and we bought a case of unpackaged cells direct, that’s a lot of batteries but they sure went fast, but then 1000mAh cells at $1.25 each or $1 each for 8 or more trackside was a good deal.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.25, 06:13 PM
Hey LBRC: if you don't mind and if this isn't out of line for this thread; where did you get the carton from?

FYI, I contacted fujicell direct and got pricing, but minimum is like 10,000 pkg of (48- 4 cell packs). At least that is what I understood, English was definately a 2nd language for this dude. I've asked a Japanese friend to help me out, but I know that minimums can be quite crazy still. All I wanted was like 100 cell carton or around there. I asked about a Canadian Distributor, but I think the guy understood me to ask if I could become the Cdn. Distributor.

I have found out that fujicell is the company that makes the Sanyo cells (i.e. HR4U).

An update to my original question: I've emailed Maha to get the internal resistance of the cells. I will be looking to get these wholesale as well.

LBRC
2007.02.25, 06:55 PM
The MOQ sounds about right, I didn’t do the purchasing just the decision on what to get and of course payment for my small share of the much larger total, the actual order included AA, AAA, and a few industrial sizes, I was only interested in the AAA’s for the locals and one box of the AA’s for mostly personal use.

I’m down to my last box of fifty cells, if you only need 100 cells see if Circuit Specialists will ship to Canada.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.25, 11:30 PM
Yo LBRC; thanks bro.

I got the link to that place and wow, they are very economical.

P.S. I'm cool with shipping within USA. I have an U.S. address to ship to (St. Pete's Florida). My brother in law owns a house there with his bud. They go golfing there from Canada lots. In fact, he'll be there in about 2 weeks, so I'll look to pickup about 200 cells or so. That should make about 50 packs. Lots to go around for me and the my club members.

GrfxDan
2007.02.25, 11:46 PM
I haven't done any extensive testing on several brands of batteries but I have ran 3 brands: Energizers, Atomics and Intellects. Of those three I have to say the the Intellects have far more punch than the Energizers or Atomics... and they seem to hold it for a long time. To be fair I should note that my Energizers are older and have been abused by a 15 minute charger. The Intellects and Atomics are brand new. Both were cycled on a Lacrosse charger at 1C before use. The Intellects really shined but the Atomics weren't much better than my abused Energizers. I'd be interested to hear from someone who's compared new Intellects to new Fujis. How to the Fuji's perform? Do they have as much punch as the Intellects? Do they hold it? Just curious.

shuter
2007.02.26, 12:37 AM
I haven't done any extensive testing on several brands of batteries but I have ran 3 brands: Energizers, Atomics and Intellects. Of those three I have to say the the Intellects have far more punch than the Energizers or Atomics... and they seem to hold it for a long time. To be fair I should note that my Energizers are older and have been abused by a 15 minute charger. The Intellects and Atomics are brand new. Both were cycled on a Lacrosse charger at 1C before use. The Intellects really shined but the Atomics weren't much better than my abused Energizers. I'd be interested to hear from someone who's compared new Intellects to new Fujis. How to the Fuji's perform? Do they have as much punch as the Intellects? Do they hold it? Just curious.

Just ordered some Fujicells and will order some new Intellects as soon as the shop has them back in stock. I will be forming them on the MH-C9000 and charging them at 1C. I don't have the feel that many of the guys have that have been racing for a long time but I'll alternate them and see if I can feel any difference.

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 11:00 AM
Just ordered some Fujicells and will order some new Intellects as soon as the shop has them back in stock. I will be forming them on the MH-C9000 and charging them at 1C. I don't have the feel that many of the guys have that have been racing for a long time but I'll alternate them and see if I can feel any difference.

Cool. Thanks for doing this. Please let us know the results. I recently purchased some new intellects and think they're great. I'd like to buy some more but if the Fuji's are just as good I'll buy them because they're cheaper.

rharris
2007.02.26, 11:38 AM
I just picked up some of the Fujicell's. Hard to beat at $0.51 each.

All the kids in the club need to cells. So I figure this is a cheep way for them to get some decent cells.

But you can bet I'll be comparing them to everything I use.

For the kids, I just want them to hold a decent charge for 8min of full throttle racing.

Same for me, but It would be cool if the output was in the 1.46 rainge.

I also use IC3's. I like them, but they have a few issues. They only work best with the IC3 charger, They have a very steep drop off. They tend to wear out faster then any other cell I've used. But for the first 20 charges or so... they are had to beat.

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 12:26 PM
I just picked up some of the Fujicell's. Hard to beat at $0.51 each.

All the kids in the club need to cells. So I figure this is a cheep way for them to get some decent cells.

But you can bet I'll be comparing them to everything I use.

For the kids, I just want them to hold a decent charge for 8min of full throttle racing.

Same for me, but It would be cool if the output was in the 1.46 rainge.

I also use IC3's. I like them, but they have a few issues. They only work best with the IC3 charger, They have a very steep drop off. They tend to wear out faster then any other cell I've used. But for the first 20 charges or so... they are had to beat.

Have you tried Intellects? They charge to somewhere between 1.46-1.49 range and show no noticeable drop off at all for an 8 minute race. I've been very impressed with them. They have much more punch than Energizers and Atomic cells. I can't speak for how long they last because I've only recently tried them. They're about $1.50-$2.00 per cell depending on where you buy them. That's cheap compared to most other brands but still 3X the cost of the Fujis.

arch2b
2007.02.26, 12:35 PM
you can pick up 24 pack of the 1000mah fujicells for about $26 shipped +/- on ebay all the time

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 12:59 PM
you can pick up 24 pack of the 1000mah fujicells for about $26 shipped +/- on ebay all the time

If I buy some I think I'd rather get 100 of them for $51 + shipping. I'll wait till I hear how they compare to Intellects.

arch2b
2007.02.26, 01:07 PM
yeah, thats a much better deal.

email me if you can on that deal as i would like to get some more cells for myself and son and loaners.

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 02:05 PM
yeah, thats a much better deal.

email me if you can on that deal as i would like to get some more cells for myself and son and loaners.

Just sent you an email with the website address for Circuit Specialists.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.26, 02:08 PM
Due to feedback from other mini-z racers with their testing efforts, I think the Fujicell 1000 Mah will make a good all around mini-z racing cell. With that in mind, I placed an order for me and my club guys for 200 cells today.

Gotta work on getting a better deal on the Maha MH-C9000 charger though...if you notice, Thomas Dist. has raised the price from the initial price and only give a generic carrying case now. I was lucky enough to get 2 chargers at the cheaper price, 4 maha 8 cell cases and 2 maha carrying bags.

Anyway, I will be zapping all the cells with my friend's zapper and then forming them on the maha c-9000's and then doing 2 cycle to match them. I will keep everyone posted on my results of both the maha c-9000 chargers and the 1000mah aaa fujicells in another thread.

Thanks again to all for their contributions!

rharris
2007.02.26, 05:42 PM
Have you tried Intellects? They charge to somewhere between 1.46-1.49 range and show no noticeable drop off at all for an 8 minute race. I've been very impressed with them. They have much more punch than Energizers and Atomic cells. I can't speak for how long they last because I've only recently tried them. They're about $1.50-$2.00 per cell depending on where you buy them. That's cheap compared to most other brands but still 3X the cost of the Fujis.

I have 6 packs of Intelects. I was quick charging them with the Duracell 15min charger and I think I fried them. That was a big reason to pick up the BC-900 and MH-C9000 chargers. Now my Intelects charge to 1.46 - 1.49, but they die after around 7min. It's time to toss them all and start over.

Where I get them, it's $11 per pack of 4. I was getting ready to pay $66 for 24 Intelects, so I figure I'll give the Fugi cells a try. 100 cells for $62 shipped.

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 06:05 PM
I have 6 packs of Intelects. I was quick charging them with the Duracell 15min charger and I think I fried them. That was a big reason to pick up the BC-900 and MH-C9000 chargers. Now my Intelects charge to 1.46 - 1.49, but they die after around 7min. It's time to toss them all and start over.

Where I get them, it's $11 per pack of 4. I was getting ready to pay $66 for 24 Intelects, so I figure I'll give the Fugi cells a try. 100 cells for $62 shipped.

Intellects are only only $5.95 per 4 pack. I'll email you a link.

Flashsp-2
2007.02.26, 06:42 PM
Intellects are only only $5.95 per 4 pack. I'll email you a link.

Could you email me that link as well, please? I love my intellects, very punchy.

I am definitely going to pick up some Fujis, once I get my new charger (still deciding whether to go with the Maha or the Lacrosse)

GrfxDan
2007.02.26, 09:41 PM
Could you email me that link as well, please? I love my intellects, very punchy.

I am definitely going to pick up some Fujis, once I get my new charger (still deciding whether to go with the Maha or the Lacrosse)

Email sent. Yes, the Intellects are very punchy.

Sinister_Y
2007.02.27, 08:54 AM
Hi All,

Finally got the datasheet from Maha for their 1000 mah AAA cells.

Send me an email if you want it. It's a pdf and shows all the data.

As a compare:

MAHA 1000: internal resistance is 35 microohms at 1000 hz. weight is 15 g
GP 1000: int. resist is 24-55 mo at 100 hz. weight is 15.2 g
Sanyo 1000: unknown. still can't find info
Fujicell 1000: unknown. trying to get info.
Ansmann 1000: unknown. contacted manufacturer a couple of times with no response.
Powerbase 1000: unknown. same as Ansmann. no response.

The datasheets also show the best charging/discharging rates as per the manufacturer as well as graphs of those figures and most importantly the stuff above.

Note once I get the 200 Fujicells on order, I will zap them with my friend's zapper. Although all sources to date indicate zapping only really shows definate benefit for Ni-cd, I'm going to do the NiMh anyway as zapping has been shown to have no negative effects. I will let everyone know my findings. I will use the maha c9000 to breakin each cells (it's okay, I now have 5 of these chargers, shouldn't take too long as each batch is 20 cells...so that's gotta be done 10 times over...that's like around 15-20 days of constant use just to breakin the cells with one breakin cycle.)

As a FYI, I found the following regarding new cells and how to check them if they are good (i.e. fresh) etc...for zapping purposes:

The open cell voltage should be between 1.11 and 1.12V (from the manufacturer). If the cell voltage is below 1.06V, the cell is suspect and zapping won't work well.

P.S. zapping is the process of putting a few thousand amps through a cell for a short amount of time. This will spot weld the cell's internal connections (which is good). Note however that this process will not work when the cell's electrodes are foam (i.e. not metallic). Not sure on the constructions of our cells mentioned above.

shuter
2007.02.27, 09:31 AM
Sinister_Y - Great job!!!! It will be interesting to compare batches of yapped and unzapped batteries. Why not post the battery data sheets here? They could eventually be put into one link. That would be very cool. Thanks for puttiing that information togeather.

arch2b
2007.02.27, 12:35 PM
have you guys seen the other sticky closed threads in other sections with info on products and all the relevant information for them? we have a similar thing going on in the tx forum and i would like to do the same here. would someone be willing to post images, data and all the relevant information on cells so that they can be combined into a closed and sticky thread?

Sinister_Y
2007.02.27, 01:36 PM
Hey Arch,

I have both the GP and Maha 1000 datasheets. I'm still looking for the other ones. Will try to get all and do as suggested.

Thanks.

rharris
2007.02.27, 02:28 PM
Intellects are only only $5.95 per 4 pack. I'll email you a link.

Thanks... got it

briankstan
2007.02.27, 03:01 PM
Intellects are only only $5.95 per 4 pack. I'll email you a link.

Dan, Can you send me that link as well? thanks

pchan0
2007.02.27, 03:27 PM
Dan, Can you send me that link as well? thanks

I would like the link as well as I'm paying $20 + for a pack of Intellects, oh wait they are matched... :D

GrfxDan
2007.02.27, 05:46 PM
If I cold post the link here I would but it would probably not be allowed. Just go to Google and search for Intellect AAA - the third result is the website allerc dot com. Click the link and you're there.

Flashsp-2
2007.02.27, 08:01 PM
I would like the link as well as I'm paying $20 + for a pack of Intellects, oh wait they are matched... :D

Where are you getting $20+ intellects? The only that I have seen are Team Atlas, and they are 2500 yen...

pchan0
2007.02.27, 11:53 PM
Where are you getting $20+ intellects? The only that I have seen are Team Atlas, and they are 2500 yen...

Aaron,

Where you live!:D

RUSH, Team Trion, and G-Style are selling the new Intellects 750 VR-1 edition zapped and matched. VR-1 is the newest batch, high voltage!

Flashsp-2
2007.02.27, 11:56 PM
Peter,

That is what I figured. I will look into those other cells as well, will you email with a link for them? Thanks...

arch2b
2007.02.28, 03:21 PM
can we start new threads for intellect cells (if one does nto exist already) and fuji cells? i'd hate to contineu clogging up this good thread on maha cells