PDA

View Full Version : 5 out of 6 FET jobs dead


byebye
2007.03.17, 03:29 PM
Well I will never volunteer to do FET upgrades ever again.

I had 5 out of 6 today go bad. One only has forward and the others have no response. Any time I say "dead" I mean no forward or reverse but every one turns on and has steering response.

Before this I did about 12 or 13 without problem.

Now I should point out that I did 6 or 7 cup cars upgraded to 2x2 4562's. I've always been susccessful with them and I've noticed that solder takes to them pretty quickly so there is less heat on the board.

I also did a 2x2 of 4562's on an mr-02. The other cars got 3010 FET upgrades. I managed to get 4 good ones done and a 3004 on an MR-01.

So about 12-13 cars done successfully. I did a 5th mr-02 with 3010's and didn't have any problems. I always test immediatly after install and again after the car is put together.

Now yesterday I started on the rest of the cars. It was 1 MR-02 and 2 F1's. Today the mr-02 has no reverse and the 2 F1's are dead completely. I also had an F1 from the night before and a already shoddy Mr-02 I was repairing. So 5 cars total and 5 in a row unsuccessful. I HATE YOUR 3010 FETs Mini-z!

I've noticed that you can't just desolder stock FETs and drop these aftermarket 3010 on and go. I've sanded some lightly to show some copper and in some cases tinned. I have never had 1 go bad let alone 5 in a row. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Has anyone else had a tough time with the aftermarket 3010's?

Sorry for the rant, thanks for the support :D
-Byebye

arch2b
2007.03.17, 04:10 PM
spoon has done all of our 3010 upgrades with shop fets and to my knowledge no one has had a problem. he did atleast 4 cars for me.

byebye
2007.03.17, 04:15 PM
I did 3 of our cars, 1 2x2 of 3010's and 3 mr-02's for Brian and all were good to go. I didn't expect the F1's to have problems but it started there then the mr-02. I had to take a break. My eyeballs hurt! I haven't gone back in to try the 4562's yet.

-Byebye

byebye
2007.03.17, 05:27 PM
To The Top
Need Feedback!

-Byebye

byebye
2007.03.17, 05:46 PM
To The Top
Need Feedback!

-Byebye

Here's some feedback.

I pulled those 3010's off and dropped a single 3004 on the forward side. Of course no throttle response. Knowing that you have to have both to get continuity I went ahead and dropped a 4562 on the reverse side.

VIOLA! It worked. All of the 3010 FETs came from the same set of 10. I'm going to drop the stockers back on them and test each. If they all work then there must have been a bad run of 3010's there.

-Byebye

arch2b
2007.03.17, 05:52 PM
or they caught some static? they did get shipped overseas so would there be any customs processing that might have caused damage to them? soon enough you'll be back here so shipping should be as simple as it gets.

byebye
2007.03.17, 06:20 PM
Thats what I'm thinking as well. So far it's all from the same run though.

I've now repaired 3 of the 5 cars that were not running. I put the stock FETs back on.

-Byebye

Spoon
2007.03.17, 06:28 PM
You know...I have often thought about charging a nominal fee for FET jobs (maybe $10) just in case I fried someone's board beyond repair. Kind of like insurance. :) Fortunately all of the jobs I've done for others have gone off without a hitch (knocking on wood). I also feel you on taking a break. I can only do 3-4 FET jobs before I have to take a brake. I tried to do a couple during our last GTG and I guess the driving already had my eyes tired out.

Programmers
2007.03.17, 06:40 PM
Perhaps it was a bad set? I noticed that Brian had a strip of them - so you might have just got some bad ones. I doubt it is your fault.

byebye
2007.03.17, 06:48 PM
Thanks guys! I would charge but I figure if I did then I'd feel obligated to replace it because of a "paid service". But I too have done many without any problems. Thankfully I've been able to take these last three back to stock. The 4th I'm sure will work and the 5th was already damaged from the previous owners trial at FET stacking.

I have 7 of the 10 FETs back in the strip holder. This should help me back track what FETs went where. Brian gave me 20 total.

I know the shop still has a FET service but remember back when it just seemed like the thing to have and external was you're only other option? Now they have so many stock FET safe motors that are very very quick.

-Byebye

imxlr8ed
2007.03.18, 01:44 AM
I too have had 3 bum 3010s... I've upgraded my entire fleet over the past month, and a few other's. One burned up the second I put power to it (may have been my mistake, but I doubt it), the other 2 had no response on one side of throttle. I was thinking maybe it was a bad production run as well... I've fetted a bunch of cars and never had just plain "no response" fets before, it was always an issue with errant solder in the early days, or newbies hooking the boards back in with the power leads reversed (kiss of death).

Was very frustrating, because usually when I get no response on one side, I figure it's a forward foot not getting down right. But that hasn't happened to me in a long time! (although I did have a weak connection on one job I did last month, Gasman caught it, and fixed it.) I spent a lot of time double checking my work, then completing the re-install only to find that it was the fets themselves. (which like I said earlier, is usually never the case)

All that said, I haven't had a whole batch of jobs go south like that, if I did... I'd probably flip out! :mad:

But I must say, once that 3010 power comes on in the straights... it certainly is worth the risk.

Has anyone ever developed a safe, pre-installation test plan for fets yet? I recall hearing something about multi-meters and such a while back.

And as far as insurance goes... I tell everyone about my famous 3/30 warranty everytime (3ft or 30 seconds... hey, what do you expect for free labor?!?! :p )

simpleskin
2007.03.18, 02:23 AM
I just got 4 3010's from the shop on thursday. I was going to fix an MA-010 board that an Atomic Stock AWD motor fried the fets of. Are these fets defective? I don't have an excess of boards laying around for trial and error.

-j

imxlr8ed
2007.03.18, 02:34 AM
Hmmm... in my last batch, I'd have to say 2 out of 14 were just inoperable (not bad odds really). If you're new to it, and the car is already fried, I don't think it would hurt to try. Just take your time, and think every step through.

If you get a bum fet, and you're sure that's what it is... just get some more and try it again. (not the best advice... but the quest for speed always involves risk)

Good luck ! :D

byebye
2007.03.18, 02:42 AM
@IMX-They might be less resistant to the heat from the soldering iron. They could also be less resistant to static shock as arch2b stated above. I don't wear a static wrist band. I've always figured if it was going to happen it will happen.

I had one also burn up. As soon as I gave it throttle it smoked! I've never done this many in one run and have never experienced this with the 4562's. Oh well so far so good on the repairs by returning to stock so I'm happy on that end.

@simpleskin-I'd say give it a try. Worst case is you have to put the stockers back on. I think I just got a bad run here. Yes the FETs did come from the shop but there is no way to tell what is defective until it is installed.

My suggestion is to just do a full replacement. I don't know how good you are at doing FET service. In my video I do the outside one then the inside one. You need to have both installed in order to get a response. If you just replaced the outside one (reverse) and fired it up and it worked you'd be good to go. BUT it will be that much harder to get the inside one out and a new one installed. That's why I suggest you just do a full replacement and give her a try.

-Byebye

avant
2007.03.18, 03:01 AM
Hey byebye - I've heard this once in our rc-micro forum, but never again. I've fetted some 3010-based boards without any issues...

Maybe it's really just a problem of "some" 3010- based boards.

Cheers,

Jo

byebye
2007.03.18, 07:44 AM
Hey byebye - I've heard this once in our rc-micro forum, but never again. I've fetted some 3010-based boards without any issues...

Maybe it's really just a problem of "some" 3010- based boards.

Cheers,

Jo

Hi Jo!

All of these cars were 3004 boards that I was upgrading to 3010.

Good news though, I was able to get all the car 100% operational on stock FETs :D . So I will turn them back over to Brian fully functional. In fact one of them came to me inoperable and that one was repaired.

For the cost of these chips it's not worth asking for a refund especially since there is no way of knowing if them are good or not without the proper equipment and knowledge of how to test them.

I will say that I would purchase these FETs again any day. I have already stacked a 2x2 of them and am very impressed with the linear power band. These couple with a VDS setup and an Atomic stock motor are very good.

Thanks everyone!

-Byebye

arch2b
2007.03.18, 10:53 AM
I just got 4 3010's from the shop on thursday. I was going to fix an MA-010 board that an Atomic Stock AWD motor fried the fets of. Are these fets defective? I don't have an excess of boards laying around for trial and error.

-j
byebye is in england, read this stuf carefullyt before jumping to the assumption the stock the shop has is all bad. your going to find out real quick if they are potentially bad when you install them anyway;)

these come individually sealed in a strip so it's impossibel to inspect them individually without removing them from thier packaging which exposes them to static charge other hazards.

i'll email david about your guys perdiciments. there maybe something he can do with his supplier or not regarding replacements.
i'm a bit more leary about shipping these things as the post office has all sorts of electronic gear searching, probing and zapping mail these days at some locations. as imx has said, would not surprise me if a batch were bad as well in which case david should look into a return or replacement batch if this is a more widespread thing.

i will say that of the 20 or so i bought not one was bad.

imxlr8ed
2007.03.18, 11:28 AM
If it's installer error Bye Bye... I'd sooner chalk it up to the over-heating issue when soldering. I know the one that was inoperable at test was a little tough getting aligned, so I may have spent too much time on it with the iron, I've found the 7317s to have the same issue once before.

I used to think this was a major issue early on in my fetting adventures, that's why I always removed them, and replaced them by heating one foot at a time, and prying them up individually. But since I did convert to full pad heating to set them on (point of soldering iron in the center of the aft pad between the 2 middle feet, heat until all four take hold, all while holding the forward feet centered above their individual pads with a dental tool, pull iron away and do the forwards individually), if overheating is the case... this is the only time I've run into it on single fet conversions.

I wonder if the manufacturer has any data on the recommended installation processes?

byebye
2007.03.18, 04:41 PM
Yeah just for everyone I'm in no way discrediting the quality of the chips coming from the shop. It seems it's either bad installs or bad chips. It was a full set of 10 that were seperately packed from another pack of 10 which were shipped in the same package and none of the other 10 were bad.

I think this was probably a bad run or might have been a set that were not as tolerant to the heat of the iron as the last batch. I've become very good at doing FET upgrades and was just shocked when 5 in a row didn't work. Mind you the 6th that did was also the first of the 6 done.

This evening I did a 2x2 4562 for Jonny and didn't have any issues. Either way the percentage of them not working I think is minimal and I got the bad batch. FET upgrades are no easy task and can save tons of money when DIY. I do want to say that this shop is the only shop I'd buy FETs from hands down.

Oh and I did say I hate the 3010 FETs here because I was stuck with 5 dead cars that were not my own. I'm happy now that I was able to get them back to stock. It was a rant;)

-Byebye

arch2b
2007.03.18, 04:45 PM
i'm going to chat with david today and will bring this issue up.

wsaenotsock
2007.03.19, 02:54 PM
I ordered some 3010's last week from the shop to upgrade my 02 and ran into problems. When done I only had reverse and no forward. I'll be messing around with it some more and try putting the 3004's back on and see if I get forward back. This was my first attempt at doing this so I was going a little slow. Hopefully I didn't overheat them.

imxlr8ed
2007.03.19, 04:52 PM
Had one fry over the weekend... well, can't really say fry because there was no blister or smell of burnt electronics, the fet looks 100%... just doesn't work anymore. Just usual driving, zipped it around for a few laps, went around a corner and the forward just cut out. (one of my upgraded loaners.) All the feet were down, the car has been working for around a month.

Tried to use my last 3010s to replace both of them and got no response whatsoever. Gave up on it and tried to just make another Mod car, and in the removal process, 2 pads came up. (board is now in the graveyard drawer) I hope I have better luck with the next batch.

junelopez
2007.04.03, 11:12 PM
I was just reading the thread and I am sitting with two f1 cars and a mr-02 with old fets. I notice no one discuss where I can find 3010 fets in the US. I check with Atomic mods and they have 4562 FET.

Hopefully my experince is a positive one.. Even thou, I do have some electronic experience..

One more thing, are the boards with the 3004 fets the same electronic boards as the newer cars that come with 3010? :cool:

imxlr8ed
2007.04.04, 02:01 AM
I was just reading the thread and I am sitting with two f1 cars and a mr-02 with old fets. I notice no one discuss where I can find 3010 fets in the US. I check with Atomic mods and they have 4562 FET.

Hopefully my experince is a positive one.. Even thou, I do have some electronic experience..

One more thing, are the boards with the 3004 fets the same electronic boards as the newer cars that come with 3010? :cool:

Yes, same boards, just upgraded fets. (i'm 95% sure on this)

The 3010s are in the shop here, and I can tell you that even with the issues I have just had with them... I just ordered a bunch more from here. Odds are, you're not going to have a problem. I can only remind you to take your time with the job, have a good clean pointy iron and a well lit work area.

And if you want me to do the work... you know where we race. ;) :D

shuter
2007.04.04, 04:18 PM
Just wanted to add a note here of my 3010 fet experience. I just upgraded three more cars from 3004 to 3010 fets. These 3010's were my second batch and I was very concerned about the cars not running or having a problem as described earlier in this thread. I was very releived to see all of them running well and the guys happy. Both batches of 3010's I have received from the Shop work perfectly.

junelopez
2007.04.04, 04:29 PM
Just wanted to add a note here of my 3010 fet experience. I just upgraded three more cars from 3004 to 3010 fets. These 3010's were my second batch and I was very concerned about the cars not running or having a problem as described earlier in this thread. I was very releived to see all of them running well and the guys happy. Both batches of 3010's I have received from the Shop work perfectly.

I will be need to purchase those fets, so I can get started on my project.. Thanks for the heads up on your experience.. :D

ph2t
2007.04.08, 08:05 PM
I'm leary of threads like this and the assumptions that are drawn by users.

1) Always use an antistatic wrist strap. The popularity and homegrown nature of this mod makes a lot of people who AREN't knowledgeable in electronics take the plunge without fully knowing the precautions one must take.

2) The most common issue is user error, irrespective of how "healthy" ones ego is, lol....

3) Shorting out adjacent pins in the #1 cause of stacking stuffups.

4) ALWAYS test after doing the first 1x1 level. Unless you're a pro, don't wait till you've done a full stack.

5) Cut the stock MOSFETS off, don't solder them off. The less heat on the PCB in the long term the better.

Given what was written here and byebye's experience, I'm pretty sure it was just a bad batch. I purchase close to 1000 MOSFETS over the last few years with my nelly turbos and that smallish failure rate becomes VERY real when dealing with the amount of MOSFETS I have. This is anothing thing users forget.

I'm happy you got to the bottom of things byebye, it's a good show in your problem solving skills.... :)

ph2t.

2EZ
2007.05.21, 09:45 AM
I have a board with a muti fet stack that I hooked up wrong and one of the stacks collapsed is this board gone or can it possibly be repaired?? I know this is off topic but I couldn't resist, I have no knowledge or skills in this area and it is obvious that this group does. I am willing to pay some one to help me with this.
Thanks

byebye
2007.05.21, 05:04 PM
Does that mean I got a bad batch? I purchased a total of six in hoping to change three boards. As of now, I'm working on my 02. Apparently, my friend worked on it and he got no forward or reverse. He only got steering. Does that mean the board still works and that the FETs are just bad? Need help before putting the FETs on the Monster and Overland. I might just have to purchase a new 02 board or get FETs somewhere. Any response would be helpful. Thanks.


Umm only way to know is to put the old stock ones back in. Thats what I did in the end.

byebye
2007.05.21, 05:05 PM
I have a board with a muti fet stack that I hooked up wrong and one of the stacks collapsed is this board gone or can it possibly be repaired?? I know this is off topic but I couldn't resist, I have no knowledge or skills in this area and it is obvious that this group does. I am willing to pay some one to help me with this.
Thanks

Yeah just remove the FETs and start over. Keep us posted.

-Byebye

byebye
2007.05.21, 07:40 PM
What if I put the old 3004 on the reverse and left the 3010 on the forward? Can I just throttle backwards to see if it works? Thanks byebye.

Yes that would work.

-Byebye

byebye
2007.05.21, 08:38 PM
I think my board died then. :( Are you in the U.S. now byebye?

YES!!!! In Wichita Falls, TX as a matter of fact ;)


Glad to be back!(no offense to my Stafford brethren:))
-Byebye

byebye
2007.05.22, 08:34 AM
You should come to New York City and do some FETs for me. :D
I wish I got paid to do that! :cool:

There's always the shop service here which I believe has more troubleshooting tools and techniques if there is not someone local to you.

-Byebye

2EZ
2007.05.22, 09:48 AM
Yeah just remove the FETs and start over. Keep us posted.

-Byebye

Thanks for the reply but I am not skilled enough to remove and reinstall the FET stack I am looking fo some one that might do this for me would the shop take this project on??

byebye
2007.05.22, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the reply but I am not skilled enough to remove and reinstall the FET stack I am looking fo some one that might do this for me would the shop take this project on??

You'd have to email the shop with the query. I know they have a repair service. Shoot mini-z an email thru the shop.

-Byebye

pinoyboy
2007.06.02, 08:07 AM
great, now i'm having problems with reverse on these 3010 fets :rolleyes:

I was hoping it had to do with the settings on my TX, but I guess i'm gon have to pull them off the board

briankstan
2007.06.08, 11:23 AM
one of our guys replaced the fets on his car with the new 3010's It had no forward or reverse. He feared he destroyed the board. :eek:

I took off the fets he installed and installed some new ones..... tested it out this morning and all is well. :D

Does anyone know how to test fets to see if they are bad? I wonder if he just didn't have them on correctly or all the legs conected. I'll like to test them and see if they are bad before tossing them.....

byebye
2007.06.08, 12:59 PM
Yeah we definately need a FET "How to test" thread. I know we have a FET expert thread. I also remember someone that gave a run down of the path of each leg but it require some voltage to turn them on and off internally.

-Byebye

shuter
2007.06.09, 11:28 PM
one of our guys replaced the fets on his car with the new 3010's It had no forward or reverse. He feared he destroyed the board. :eek:

I took off the fets he installed and installed some new ones..... tested it out this morning and all is well. :D

Does anyone know how to test fets to see if they are bad? I wonder if he just didn't have them on correctly or all the legs conected. I'll like to test them and see if they are bad before tossing them.....

Hi Brian, The following is a copy of a reply to my thread on how to test fets located under Mimi-Z science. Hope it helps.

There is a testing procedure #2
CrashTestJohnny
Registered User


Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11 Quote:
Originally Posted by shuter
I have some 3010 fets that I installed on a board, discovered that the board did not work, removed the fets and reinstalled another pair. I am wondering whether the fets are still good or if I shorted them out. Is there a way to test them with a multi meter to see if they are good or not? Would hate to just throw them away but would hate even more installing them on another board only to find they are no good.


Here's how the fets work:

8765
||||
HHH
||||
1234

1 N-channel Source
2 N-channel Gate
3 P-channel Source
4 P-channel Gate
5 P-channel Drain
6 P-channel Drain
7 N-channel Drain
8 N-channel Drain

Usually Pin 1 has a dot near it to identify it.

So there are actually two fets within each chip you want to test, one is an
N-Channel fet (the left half of the chip), which is used as an on/off switch for ground (0 Volts), and one is a P-Channel fet (the left half of the chip) used as an on-off switch for the positive voltage (5 Volts)..

On the chip, pins 1,2,7, and 8 are connected to the N channel fet, and pins
3,4,5, and 6 are connected to the P channel fet.

Basically the way the fet works is that, to make your car go forward, the
N-channel is turned on one chip, and the P-channel on the other chip is turned on, so.. the motor has 5V in one lead and ground in the other.


So what you should do is to test each fet seperately to make sure both are working. Make sure none of the pins on the chip are soldered together.
Get a 5-6 v power source (a couple leads from a set of 4 AAA or 4AA in series is fine). Also get your stock motor, (or a really mild motor).. You'll also need a few alligator clips, to connect things together..

Also before you touch your fets, touch a large metal object to ground yourself, and get rid of any static electricity. (Especially if you are in a carpeted room)

First you'll test the N-channel fet..
-Connect pin 1 to the Ground (negative of the power supply)
-Connect one lead of the motor to pins 7 and 8
-Connect the other lead of the motor to +5V (positive of the power supply)
Pin 2 can be now be used to turn the N-Channel fet on and off.
-Connect +5V to pin 2 to turn the fet on, (the motor should be spinning now!)
-Connect Ground to pin 2 to turn the fet off, (the motor should stop spinning as if disconnected from the battery)

As long as you are able to turn the motor on and off using the Pin 2, your N-channel fet is OK

Now you'll test the P-channel fet
-Disconnect everything you connected to the chip before.
-Connect Pin 3 to +5V
-Connect one lead of the motor to pins 5 and 6
-Connect the other lead of the motor to Ground
Pin 4 can now be used to turn the P-Channel fet on and off.
-Connect Ground to pin 4 to turn the fet on, (the motor should be spinning)
-Connect 5V to pin 4 to turn the fet off, (the motor should stop spinning as if disconnected from the battery)

As long as you are able to turn the motor on and off using Pin 4 now, your P-channel fet is OK

So if both the N-channel and P-channel fets work, you are probably all set.

You can also use the same technique to test out a fet stack you solder together before placing it on the board.


Some other suggestions I have is to use a current limiting lab power supply,
instead of a battery pack, and limit the current to 500mA or so if usign a motor.

Also, if you want to be really safe, you can use an 5 Volt LED (light emitting diode) in place of the motor first, and limit the current on the current limiting power supply to 50-100mA (enough so the LED is not full bright).

Actually, after fetting my car I always use a current limiting power supply in place of batteries to test it out first. Also instead of a motor for testing I connect two leds to the motor terminals on the board (one connected forward, and one connected in reverse.) One LED should light up for forward, and one should light up for reverse. When using the LEDs the current can be limited to 100mA or so, which shouldn't hurt the electronics if something is hooked up wrong since 5V at 100ma is only 0.5 watts, and the fets should be able to dissipate at least 1W of heat continously.












Here's some other info too:

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/semitest.htm#stmos

pinoyboy
2007.06.16, 10:47 AM
great, now i'm having problems with reverse on these 3010 fets :rolleyes:

I was hoping it had to do with the settings on my TX, but I guess i'm gon have to pull them off the board

I just used the 3010 fets to make a 2x2 stack on my ma-010, so far all is good. ;)

I guess i did have a loose leg before. :o

SuperFly
2007.06.23, 01:26 PM
Not to change the subject, but why are you guys no longer using 4562s? Is there some quality of the 3010 that you like better?

shuter
2007.06.23, 05:31 PM
Not to change the subject, but why are you guys no longer using 4562s? Is there some quality of the 3010 that you like better?

The 3010 FET's are the new stock class standard For HFAY. It is the reason I converted our guys from 3004's.

homestar21
2007.07.01, 09:13 PM
Ok, sorry to bring up an older topic, but my Mini-Z AWD FET burned. (one FET only) :(
So, I was wondering the cost of a new board, or new FETs, preferably 3010, since they're better. (I guess) I was using an Atomic Stock motor, yet my FETs started smoking! Anyone know any better solution than replacing or buying a new board? I thought it was called the Atomic AWD "STOCK" for a reason! Any other stories with this motor?
Thanks! I'm so worried right now! :( :confused:

EDIT: The MR02 board and MA010 board are different, right? Could I replace a MA010 board with an 02 board? Some people sell board, pots and servo sets for cheap!

byebye
2007.07.01, 10:26 PM
Ok, sorry to bring up an older topic, but my Mini-Z AWD FET burned. (one FET only) :(
So, I was wondering the cost of a new board, or new FETs, preferably 3010, since they're better. (I guess) I was using an Atomic Stock motor, yet my FETs started smoking! Anyone know any better solution than replacing or buying a new board? I thought it was called the Atomic AWD "STOCK" for a reason! Any other stories with this motor?
Thanks! I'm so worried right now! :( :confused:

EDIT: The MR02 board and MA010 board are different, right? Could I replace a MA010 board with an 02 board? Some people sell board, pots and servo sets for cheap!

A new board is ~$100. I think the shop sells them. If only one FET is burned you can send it to the shop and have them replace it for a fee I'm sure would be less than a new board total.

The new mr-02 board and MA-010 have the same FET's but different length wires. It is doable though.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.02, 03:26 PM
Oh, the eBay ones said chinese copy... :( I guess I can buy the FETs and do it myself....
Anyone know the difference in price between paying the shop to replace it, or buying the FETs? Mini-Z, got any ideas? Thanks!

BTW if I buy the FETs, I had a question:
My dad used to work for a company that made FETs, and said any FET with IRF (ie. IRF3010) are all the same quality.. true??
Say, I bought IRF 3010 FETs elsewhere, other than the shop (sorry for not supporting if I did :P) would they be of the same quality?
Thanks!

EDIT: Is there anyone who has experienced similar problems with the atomic AWD stock motor? I wish I could sue for wrongfully labeling it. :rolleyes:
Or at least make them buy me fets haha.

Spoon
2007.07.02, 03:36 PM
Oh, the eBay ones said chinese copy... :( I guess I can buy the FETs and do it myself....
Anyone know the difference in price between paying the shop to replace it, or buying the FETs? Mini-Z, got any ideas? Thanks!


It's $5 to buy two FETs. I would just replace them both.

If you wanted a 2x2 stack the shop charges $35. I don't see a service listed to repair a 2x1 stack. You could open a support ticket and ask.

homestar21
2007.07.02, 03:45 PM
Any info on the IRF situation/question? (see post)

SuperFly
2007.07.02, 04:14 PM
Replacing fets is not the easiest thing to do. You really need a good soldering iron, good (correct) solder, good handling practices (no static), a really steady hand, and patience. The risk you take doing it yourself is ruining your board. It's one thing to have blown fets, and a completely worse thing to destroy the whole board.

If I were you, I would decide how much money I wanted to spend and whether or not you think you might be doing this kind of thing frequently. The reason I ask is that a halfway decent soldering iron will cost you more than the fets and the shop service. If you think you're into the electonic side of r/c cars, it's a good investment, but I would still practice with removing/replacing components on a junk PCB, could be from any old elecronic thing. If you think you just want to get your car running again and aren't that interested in doing micro-electronic surgery, I'd send it to the shop.

benmlee
2007.07.02, 04:15 PM
IRF does not make the 3010 FET. The 3010 FET is made by Renesas. IRF makes the 7389 and other upgrade FET. Vishay makes the popular 4562 fet. Each company has their own line of FETs and put their own designation on them. There are no standards for FETs like they have for screws and bolts. Any 3010 FETs you buy are going to come from Renesas. They should be the same quality.
Of course, like any manufacturing process, there are variations, probably the large volume customers get the top batch, and other gets lower quality batches.

homestar21
2007.07.02, 05:27 PM
Well, my dad is an electrician, and sometimes does my FET jobs. I trust him, and I've been practicing using an old Xmod board. I use rosin core solder, and I probably will try this with my dad's help. Thanks for the warnings and info though. :)

homestar21
2007.07.03, 07:23 PM
Bump!
Wanted your opinion on contacting the person I bought the motor from. Bad decision?
And contacting Atomic (japan?)
I don't know anyone else who has had these problems.
Thanks.

P.S. Went to kenonhobby in Arcadia. Anyone ever been in the warehouse? Larger selection than I expected. Bought a PN Bearing set and a discontinued MR01 whitebody Subaru Impreza WRX STi. (GC8 version)
Thinking of a team orange scheme, rally scheme, or use my HKS decals from S15 drift model.

byebye
2007.07.03, 08:32 PM
Bump!
Wanted your opinion on contacting the person I bought the motor from. Bad decision?
And contacting Atomic (japan?)
I don't know anyone else who has had these problems.
Thanks.
......................................

What do you mean? It depends also on the gearing you used. Anything higher than 9t would be a risk. Also did you try another motor after the new install.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.03, 08:54 PM
What do you mean? It depends also on the gearing you used. Anything higher than 9t would be a risk. Also did you try another motor after the new install.

Kris

Uh oh, might have been the gearing. I thought it was stock safe.... :(
And I haven't tried another motor, the FETs haven't been replaced yet.

byebye
2007.07.04, 10:36 AM
Uh oh, might have been the gearing. I thought it was stock safe.... :(
And I haven't tried another motor, the FETs haven't been replaced yet.


Driving style can also kill motors, especially motors that are geared too high.

My son was notorious for putting a motor thru the ringer. He would go thru corners wide open. That put a strain on the motor and that strain is exponential when you raise the gearing.

Low gearing=high torque=low top end

High gearing=low torque=high top end

FET upgrades mean you can run higher gearing because they give the motor the current it needs to create the torque to get the car moving.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.04, 06:59 PM
Driving style can also kill motors, especially motors that are geared too high.

My son was notorious for putting a motor thru the ringer. He would go thru corners wide open. That put a strain on the motor and that strain is exponential when you raise the gearing.

Low gearing=high torque=low top end

High gearing=low torque=high top end

FET upgrades mean you can run higher gearing because they give the motor the current it needs to create the torque to get the car moving.

Kris

Has that happened to anyone else here? I was just wondering. I do have pretty high gearing. :o

byebye
2007.07.04, 11:19 PM
Has that happened to anyone else here? I was just wondering. I do have pretty high gearing. :o

I know most know that can happen so most avoid it.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.05, 06:13 PM
I remember someone talking about a free FET site, but it only works once or something. I was also thinking about buying from here or Newark electronics. Any other recommendations.

homestar21
2007.07.07, 03:58 PM
Bump.
I was wondering if you would replace the 3010s with 8692s or 4562s. I planned on getting them free from fairchild semiconductor. ph2t made a post about getting them for free by getting samples.

And if I change the FETs would it still comply with HFAY Stock Rules?

byebye
2007.07.07, 05:02 PM
Bump.
I was wondering if you would replace the 3010s with 8692s or 4562s. I planned on getting them free from fairchild semiconductor. ph2t made a post about getting them for free by getting samples.

And if I change the FETs would it still comply with HFAY Stock Rules?

You mean is it a good idea? Or would I do it personally?

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.07, 07:00 PM
Either way... I'll take any opinion from any view, just be constructive.

byebye
2007.07.07, 11:00 PM
Either way... I'll take any opinion from any view, just be constructive.

I guess what ever motor you run should help determine the FET's you want. If you are keeping your board within the rules of HFAY OLPS then you can run 3010 or 3004 only.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.08, 01:46 AM
Hmm. Now I have to decide between HFAY or not. Dang. I hear the 16 and Under prize is a RTR this year! :p I also plan on an HFAY Stock Motor.
Wanted opinions on the FETs and the motor. :confused:
Is the motor stock safe, including gearing? :rolleyes:
:p

Thanks! :)

byebye
2007.07.08, 07:32 AM
Hmm. Now I have to decide between HFAY or not. Dang. I hear the 16 and Under prize is a RTR this year! :p I also plan on an HFAY Stock Motor.
Wanted opinions on the FETs and the motor. :confused:
Is the motor stock safe, including gearing? :rolleyes:
:p

Thanks! :)

So far I have not had any problems. I think with the layouts this season you shouldn't need more than an 8t which should be more than enough top end.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.09, 01:45 PM
But, using more than an 8T would be safe, correct?
thx!

byebye
2007.07.09, 06:18 PM
But, using more than an 8T would be safe, correct?
thx!

9T would be fine. It really depends on how you run the car on the track and of course the type of track.

Kris

homestar21
2007.07.09, 07:37 PM
Thanks! I might participate in HFAY this season then.

fwav8or
2008.02.01, 05:10 PM
I just tried my first FET install and I pulled one of the pads off the board while trying to remove the FET. :mad: Does this mean that I ruined my PCB or is there a way to repair it, or does it even matter? Thanks!

SuperFly
2008.02.01, 05:20 PM
It's usually repairable. You need a multimeter with a circuit tester (beeps when a circuit is complete). Stick one probe on whatever shred of the pad or the circuit board trace leading to it, and start poking the other probe into the little holes (vias) at the other end of the board. When you get a beep, solder a small wire from the hole that beeped to the leg of the fet where the pad got pulled off.

imxlr8ed
2008.02.02, 12:26 AM
If the pad is dis-lodged form the board, but still in full connection, no problem to drop a new fet on, but if it breaks and tears out of the board, a little tougher. I've fixed these cases with jumper wire before, but its tough to do because usually when you get the jumper connected to where it broke, the heat from putting the fet on dislodges it. I've fixed some with a full thin wire with sheilding, and others with just one decent strand of wire, bent to fit in the location. Key is to carefuly scratch enough of the "green" away with an exacto to expose a good mounting surface without breaking the rest of the path under the "green". Very tough in some cases, but do-able.

You can also try to attach a strand of wire to the fet first before putting it on the board, and then bend it to where it needs to go after the other feet are connected. Each case is different, but I do recommend a very clean and severely pointy soldering tip on your iron.

fwav8or
2008.02.02, 09:00 PM
OK, thanks for the good info. Just one question... what type/brand of solder/tip do you use? On the Atomic website it recommends using the Weller lt1lx tip. However, the only thing I've found on this tip requires you to have a $100 solder and a $250 base station. Having said this, I have very little soldering skill/knowledge and perhaps I just don't know what I am talking about. Do you know of a cheaper tip/solder iron to use? Thanks again for the good info!