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View Full Version : Quick question: Does everyone think i'm really cheating?


pinoyboy
2007.03.20, 12:30 AM
I've been getting called a cheater for a couple of the past races now. I've been ok with it and thought it was just some joking around :p , but the longer i think about, the more I think that it could be half meant you know? :confused:

I know that first motor I had this past Saturday seemed pretty fast. I think I asked Eric, Patrick, Kevin, and Todd if they thought this motor was stock and if I should change it. I think these were some of the type of responses I got, which are in no particular order:

"Its faster than my modified car..."
"Its seems pretty fast. Just use your best judgement"
"Seems like you got your motor cans mixed up"
"It looks fast. what tires are you running?"

I figured most people were skeptical about it, myself included. So, I decided to change the motor before we began the qualifers. The other motor I changed to was slower, but when I added comm drops, it was going as fast as the other motor I had previously.

So, the day went on and I was getting some good laps in. I don't remember exactly, but i'm thinking I had the fastest lap for every qualifier and main I was in? :confused: Correct me if i'm wrong

Later, I got more comments about my setup, and more jokes about cheating and what else I'm gonna put inside my motor :p I was ok with it and I played along.

Sometimes during the middle of qualifiers, I could see some people watching my car out of my peripheral vision. While I was practicing, I was womdering what they were thinking: "his car is fast", "whats his setup?", "thats not a stock motor"

I think more people were watching and talking during the last stock class qualier, because I think I turned the fastest lap of the day.

By the time it was all over, I won both classes, but wasn't that satisfied as I felt like people might be skeptical. I know that turning quicker laps than my modified MA-010 didn't help the cause either, but that just really shows how much better I had my MR-02 setup tuned than my MA-010. If you didn't know, before this last race, I think I went up to Hobby Mart at least 3 times to get my cars to where they were at on Satuday.

I wasn't the biggest fan of the MA-010 until last week, as I've been struggling to get it right and thought about selling it. I'm sure some of you might have heard me complain about that before. Right now, its still not right, and with the next race being a layout change, I have no doubt its gonna give me more problems again.

Anyways, I just ordered some springs for the MA-010, tires, and a another brand new stock motor from the shop here. I'm thinking I should just not open the motor until next race, but if someone really is skeptical of me cheating, I'm sure they wouldn't believe that's going to happen

Or I would just swap this brand new motor for someone elses motor. If they were up for it, it would probably be either Patrick, Shaun, Danny, Billy, or Jeff. You guys seemed to have good speed on the straight. However, if there is someone skeptical, I still run into the same problem.

I was also just thinking, that once I get the package(probaly Wed. or Thurs. as it went out today), I'd go to hobbymart and ask Miguel to hold it for me for the next race. If its still seems to fast, I'll take a weight penalty or something everyone agrees on.

Whatever it is, yall can talk about it and let me know:D

Wow, didn't realize I wrote this much and how late it was! :p Anyways, everyone feel free to say anything, I can take it, except Eric's comment about my manual rear windows :mad: J/K :p

Now that I got this off my chest, I think I can finally get some sleep. I'm very interested and kinda nervous as to what responses I get in the morning. If there were any doubts, hopefully I can get my name cleared once and for all as I'd like to keep the playing field as level as possible.

Also, I'm hoping this doesn't have me come off as some type of egotistical jerk or trying to ruffle some feathers, as its totally not meant to be. I've just been thinking about all the comments I've heard prior to today, and would just like to know what everyone actually thinks. I'm not a softy or anything, I just think if there is a problem, its better for me to bring it up than for others to.

Thanks, and talk to you guys later! :D

byebye
2007.03.20, 03:37 AM
I know I don't race with your club but I too was questioned about how fast my car was. I told them what I did and they should do it. Plain and simple. Someone has to be the fastest. And if you're not you should be doing the same thing as the fastest guy becuase it's obvious he knows what he is doing.

Needless to say in my club all it took was a good motor break-in and the A-Main stays tight now. It's a fact of life being the fastest.

-Byebye

Jonny
2007.03.20, 03:49 AM
I know I don't race with your club but I too was questioned about how fast my car was. I told them what I did and they should do it. Plain and simple. Someone has to be the fastest. And if you're not you should be doing the same thing as the fastest guy becuase it's obvious he knows what he is doing.

Needless to say in my club all it took was a good motor break-in and the A-Main stays tight now. It's a fact of life being the fastest.

-Byebye
Well Pinoyboy, I'll echo and add to what Byebye has just said - at our club here in the UK, Byebye has always had the fastest car - the speed checker told that myself and Rocket Rich who were also in the A Main with him were running 18kph motors and Byebye's was doing 25kmh. The last GTG even the new guys thought Byebye's car ran a modified motor! I must say that all I've done to any motors is clean up the comm but this still doesn't produce past 21kmh and after a few races it dropped back to 18kmh again.

All being said, I believe the end result in the HFAY Finals was Byebye ahead by only 2 laps on the first run so make of that what you will!

Jonny

Ninja
2007.03.20, 06:07 AM
Here is an idea, if you are up for it. Whoever complains, offer to swap motors with them. This will resolve things for 2 reasons. 1) if it is just cleaning and lubricating, then you can do it to any motor, and still be as fast the next race day. 2) They will get a faster motor in return, and wouldnt have anything to complain about.

Yeah, your car is fast, but isnt unbelievably fast. Spped is only half of it, you also have a very smooth driving style. I was thinking about buying a couple of stock motors just to be able to participate in the stock class.

The last time Eric and I were down there, We raced in mod class with cars that were within stock class rules all except for the motor, neither one of us had anything major modded or anything, but still wasnt a stock motor. In the Mod A-Main we ran for 7 minutes. In that 7 minutes, I ran only 3 less laps than you with your modified AWD with FET stack and all. I went home happy and very satisfied with my car.

I broke my nose mount for the Enzo being stupid, and it really showed this week. The only reason I ever questioned whether your motor was stock or not was because you questioned it yourself. I even heard you say once, "I'm not sure if it is an Iwaver or Kyosho motor, but I THINK its stock". That doesnt bother me though, at our race club we "run what you brung" and sometimes even my mod car gets whipped by some stock class cars. I just blame it on batts :D

bemoore
2007.03.20, 07:43 AM
Oh, man. I'm really sorry I ever mentioned this. It was all in jest. Your motors are not unreasonably fast. Yours is faster than mine, but my motor has a lot of laps on it. And I don't use comm drops. I'm sure that if I got a new motor, did a proper break-in, and installed a set of the new stock FETs, I would have a motor every bit as fast as yours. I know a few motor building tricks (from slotcar racing) and I have no doubt that I could build a stock motor faster than any we've seen so far. I just don't have the skill to take advantage of it, so I haven't done it. I was really surprised at the speed of Jeff's stock motor. He has a newer 02 with the better FETs. As far as Open. Um... how would you cheat in Open? Anything is legal. You've shown that you have the driving skill and the setup skill to be very fast. You have probably spent more time practicing and perfecting your setup than most, so it's not unreasonable to expect you to be fast.

Please be assured. I was NEVER seriously accusing you of cheating.

My biggest gripe is that the faster I get, the faster everyone else gets. :rolleyes: I'm missing something. Not sure what it is. Oh yeah, talent. :D

Draconious
2007.03.20, 07:56 AM
If I could drive my car... everyone made fun of mine cuz they always thought it looked faster than theirs... but it wasnt. I always asumed they were trying to make me feel like I was doing better than sucky... lol.

pinoyboy
2007.03.20, 08:35 AM
Here is an idea, if you are up for it. Whoever complains, offer to swap motors with them. This will resolve things for 2 reasons. 1) if it is just cleaning and lubricating, then you can do it to any motor, and still be as fast the next race day. 2) They will get a faster motor in return, and wouldnt have anything to complain about.

Yeah, your car is fast, but isnt unbelievably fast. Spped is only half of it, you also have a very smooth driving style. I was thinking about buying a couple of stock motors just to be able to participate in the stock class.

The last time Eric and I were down there, We raced in mod class with cars that were within stock class rules all except for the motor, neither one of us had anything major modded or anything, but still wasnt a stock motor. In the Mod A-Main we ran for 7 minutes. In that 7 minutes, I ran only 3 less laps than you with your modified AWD with FET stack and all. I went home happy and very satisfied with my car.

I broke my nose mount for the Enzo being stupid, and it really showed this week. The only reason I ever questioned whether your motor was stock or not was because you questioned it yourself. I even heard you say once, "I'm not sure if it is an Iwaver or Kyosho motor, but I THINK its stock". That doesnt bother me though, at our race club we "run what you brung" and sometimes even my mod car gets whipped by some stock class cars. I just blame it on batts :D


Yea, I was thinking of swapping motors with someone else. Thanks for the suggestion!:D I know that Jeff might have the fastest, as was mentioned earlier, new motors rip! I've also noticed that Danny, Patrick, Shaun, and Billy have nice top speed.

I wasn't sure if it was an Iwaver or Kyosho stock motor. They could vary alot in performance. I just kept asking because I didn't want to be known as a cheater, and if people had problems with it, I'd change it, which I did.

I also wondered if people thought I might have cheated because last race(3/3), I did horrible. Then this race(3/17), I win every qualifier and set the fastest lap. I know if someone else did that, I might be a little suspicous! :p

Right now, I have that first motor and a new motor coming in this week. I'll give one to Kevin, as I think his Enzo might have come with a really abused motor, and then I'll swap with someone else if they'd like.

By the way, I'm no where near the fastest, I'm very inconsistant and I do even worse when I know my car is not to my liking. I guess its like a psychological thing. I know that when Shaun races, I have a hard time keeping pace even when I'm happy with my car :D

Also, about the modified class thing, I know anything is legal there, but I know it had to raise some suspicion that a MR-02 with a stock motor was faster than a MA-010 with a 3x2 fet stack, and a 39T arm in a ball bearing can on the track. The days I practiced, I knew it was fast, but not faster.

wsaenotsock
2007.03.20, 08:38 AM
I'm joking around and only called you a cheater on the boards. :D I didn't participate in stock this past weekend but your car didn't seem abnormally fast on the straight. It just flew around the turns due to a good setup and driving. I did have my Speedy motor 010 on the track during practice sessions with your 02 and could pull away from you pretty good on the straight.

Was I the one that said it was "faster than my modified car?" If so I meant in the turns and overall lap times, not on the straight. My car wasn't handling particually well but a least your idea to increase the preload on the rear springs got rid of the chatter I was experiencing. I'm going to try and go back to 0 toe in the rear and see what happens.

We'll switch from your motors to your tires now. It could be that you are running some super exotic rubber compound that is unavailable to anyone else. :eek: ;)

pinoyboy
2007.03.20, 08:41 AM
oh great! :rolleyes: :D

2EZ
2007.03.20, 08:42 AM
IF it is fast don't worry about it that is what we all want. I have never raced at a place very long when the fast guy wasn't thought to be cheating goes with the fact you win, again don't worry just race to win with-in the rules. I do know that there are fast motors in the slot days we had 2%ers This was the ones that just were faster out of the box don't get them often but they do show up from time to time. Could be you have one. You had some good ideas to dispel the talk but nothing will stop it till some one takes your place as the fastest!! Then all will talk about them cheating!! Now if you are cheating what fun is that to beat your friends by cheating and you risk getting your crew chief suspended!!
My thoughts

wsaenotsock
2007.03.20, 08:44 AM
I got a new motor Hank. I was waiting to bust it out with the 3010's in stock but ran into trouble during the fet swap. It still needs to be broken in. I'm going to mess around with the fets some more one of these night. There could have been a bad batch of 3010 floating around.

pinoyboy
2007.03.20, 08:53 AM
I got a new motor Hank. I was waiting to bust it out with the 3010's in stock but ran into trouble during the fet swap. It still needs to be broken in. I'm going to mess around with the fets some more one of these night. There could have been a bad batch of 3010 floating around.

Oh, alright cool! If you want the motor Billy, its yours! Just make sure to practice with it. Also, if you haven't found any GPM 8 reat tires yet, I can give you a pair:D

hpgod
2007.03.20, 11:36 AM
Its all setup. breakin/tires/batteries/fets/free bearings. He was no then my old mr01 with 3004 fets. The couple 10ths I would loose a lap to shaun were in the chicane as the MM setup just carries more corner speed.

Shaun
2007.03.20, 12:42 PM
Hank's car was faster in the corners than everyone elses. That's where he was killing everyone else. His car was very free in the tight turns. The shorter RM car has more corner speed on that tight track. My MM VDS car loses a lot of time in the corners because of the longer/wider wheelbase. The car doesn't rotate as well as a shorter RM car. It's more stable than the RM car, but it is slower in the turns. On that small tight track corner speed is all important.

Bottom Line: Hank's not cheating. He's a good driver. That's why he is fast.

bemoore
2007.03.20, 12:55 PM
Oh, alright cool! If you want the motor Billy, its yours! Just make sure to practice with it. Also, if you haven't found any GPM 8 reat tires yet, I can give you a pair:D
It wasn't me that got the new motor. That was Kevin. I may get a new motor, but I don't need yours. I'm thinking of getting a new motor and some new brushes, and then determine whether a used motor can be brought back to new condition or better. I may take you up on the tires though. I've been checking about every two weeks, and I haven't been able to find them. My current rears are about shot, too.

BTW, I agree with Shaun. Hank's running a 94mm wheelbase while many of us are running 98. I think the 94 is a little harder to drive, so I favor the easier-to-drive 98, as do many others. If Hank can control a 94mm car better than I can with a 98, I don't think that's cheating.

ChattavegasSE
2007.03.20, 04:35 PM
Yeah Hank, you cheat. :rolleyes: C'mon, it's not like you drive over the rails to shorten the track like I do. :D

AtlRC
2007.03.20, 04:52 PM
I never thought for a second that anyone believed you were cheating Hank. I sure never did... quite the contrary! I believe that you are an extremely honest person and would not be able to sleep at night if you did cheat (sounds like that might be pretty accurate ;)) . People were just giving you a hard time cause they like you and and you're such a darn good rookie driver (and tuner)! You're doing an awsome job for being in the hobby for such a short time!

You asked me about that first motor that you had in your car and it sounded like you might have been a bit uncertain about the com that was in it (since the endbell had been opened)... I said "Use you own best judgement", and you did. I think you took that motor out just to be sure. If we were being real picky... and maybe we should be, then we would not allow any motor that has had the endbell removed... that's the only reason I said use your best judgement (since the endbell had been removed and somebody "could" complain). Fortunately we don't have a bunch of complainers.

Anyway, you're doing an awsome job! It's great to have you racing with us, and I'd trust you with anything! Now get some sleep tonight. :)

pinoyboy
2007.03.20, 06:56 PM
I never thought for a second that anyone believed you were cheating Hank. I sure never did... quite the contrary! I believe that you are an extremely honest person and would not be able to sleep at night if you did cheat (sounds like that might be pretty accurate ;)) . People were just giving you a hard time cause they like you and and you're such a darn good rookie driver (and tuner)! You're doing an awsome job for being in the hobby for such a short time!

You asked me about that first motor that you had in your car and it sounded like you might have been a bit uncertain about the com that was in it (since the endbell had been opened)... I said "Use you own best judgement", and you did. I think you took that motor out just to be sure. If we were being real picky... and maybe we should be, then we would not allow any motor that has had the endbell removed... that's the only reason I said use your best judgement (since the endbell had been removed and somebody "could" complain). Fortunately we don't have a bunch of complainers.

Anyway, you're doing an awsome job! It's great to have you racing with us, and I'd trust you with anything! Now get some sleep tonight. :)

Yea, I opened that motor up to make that opening so I can see the comm. Actually I did that with a couple of motors. From now on, I'll just drill a hole without opening the can. I tried this once and I ended up hitting the comm, but now I found a better way to lessen the chance of that happening.

Anyways, I thought somehow I might have put in another arm , but I really don't have anything else other than some stock Iwaver arms that I should probably throw away anyway. :p

Alright, thanks guys, I feel better now :D

Oh BTW, I stopped by Hobby Mart today. I started thinking what were my actual fast lap times were during psych, so I decided to stop by after class. Miguel received his Kyosho shipment in. 3 AWDs, 3 stock motors, and some bearings. I also managed to make my AWD handle like poo again :(

There were also 2 guys I met before that I haven't raced with us on Saturday. One of them has 2 AWDs and I think hes gonna end up getting an MR-02 as well. The other guy has 1 AWD and also might be getting an MR-02. They liked your video Patrick :D

I already forgot their names though :confused:

gasman1
2007.03.21, 05:56 AM
Yea, I opened that motor up to make that opening so I can see the comm. Actually I did that with a couple of motors. From now on, I'll just drill a hole without opening the can. I tried this once and I ended up hitting the comm, but now I found a better way to lessen the chance of that happening.

Anyways, I thought somehow I might have put in another arm , but I really don't have anything else other than some stock Iwaver arms that I should probably throw away anyway. :p

Alright, thanks guys, I feel better now :D

Oh BTW, I stopped by Hobby Mart today. I started thinking what were my actual fast lap times were during psych, so I decided to stop by after class. Miguel received his Kyosho shipment in. 3 AWDs, 3 stock motors, and some bearings. I also managed to make my AWD handle like poo again :(

There were also 2 guys I met before that I haven't raced with us on Saturday. One of them has 2 AWDs and I think hes gonna end up getting an MR-02 as well. The other guy has 1 AWD and also might be getting an MR-02. They liked your video Patrick :D

I already forgot their names though :confused:

If you are running in the HFAY series and opened the cans to drill holes in them, every motor you ran in the series so far is considered illegal and your times should not count. Rules state that the motor is to be unopened stock can. Your not using your best judgement if you knew about it and allowed this to happen.

hpgod
2007.03.21, 06:13 AM
Hank
I dropped my original motar arm in a PN BB can and it makes a killer practice motor. I cleaned the comm up first with a 17 year old comm stick from when i first started rc. It now runs just about he same with my practice Rayovac batteries as my unopened stock motor with my race intellec batteires. I swap the motor on raceday mourning. The practice motor gets the hours of wear and tear on it each week versus the race motor. 1 set of PN brushes has lasted a good 60 full 20 minute runs so far.
It looks promising that I and Blake may make the next race

Art

pinoyboy
2007.03.21, 07:45 AM
Forgot about the opening the can part in the HFAY rules. When I began going around December, we had some rules that were similar to HFAY, but not all. oh well, my bad! :p I'll thorw any motors I've done that too as well.

Ninja
2007.03.21, 08:00 AM
I took a look at the rules

Motors:

All Brands: Stock 130 class motors only. Stock motor from any make can be used in any chassis. (An example would be, using a stock Mini-Z motor in an Xmod.) No modifications may be made to any motors. No bearing, magnet, or brush upgrades allowed. No timing resets either. Cleaners and commutator drops are allowed. Any pinion gearing is allowed. Drilling of motors for mounting to aftermarket motor mounts is allowed, however this must be done without opening the motor can. Oiling the bushings is encouraged for overall motor maintenance.

If you can drill holes for the motor mount, I dont see why you cant drill one for the comm drops. Just as long as you dont open the can :D I might do this with the AWD stock motor I have here, and run in the next stock race. Dont know yet though.

imxlr8ed
2007.03.21, 09:45 AM
Correct, I would allow a hole drilled for comm drop access, but if the factory solder for the caps showed changes, I would instantly impound that motor.

If you removed the endbell... it's an illegal motor, plain and simple.

(are you guys actively participating, or just using HFAY rules ?)

AtlRC
2007.03.21, 09:55 AM
If you are running in the HFAY series and opened the cans to drill holes in them, every motor you ran in the series so far is considered illegal and your times should not count. Rules state that the motor is to be unopened stock can. Your not using your best judgement if you knew about it and allowed this to happen.

We're not running HFAY, so no one has submitted times that may have been illegal. We may run HFAY in the future and we would make sure to enforce the rules... in the meantime, we'll make sure to start enforcing the "removed endbell" rule anyway.

AtlRC
2007.03.21, 09:56 AM
So everyone in our group, please be advised that a motor that shows any signs of the endbell being removed will be banned. We will allow holes to be drilled for cleaning and com drops. Thanks!

imxlr8ed
2007.03.21, 10:00 AM
It's easy to tell if the endbell came off, it's nearly impossible to duplicate the factory soldering job on the cans for the caps.

pinoyboy
2007.03.21, 10:13 AM
It's easy to tell if the endbell came off, it's nearly impossible to duplicate the factory soldering job on the cans for the caps.

Cool beans, I will definately be throwing those motors in the trash. :D

Ninja
2007.03.21, 10:16 AM
It's easy to tell if the endbell came off, it's nearly impossible to duplicate the factory soldering job on the cans for the caps.
though you do not have to de-solder the caps to remove the comm, it is still easy to tell if the tabs have been bent out.

bemoore
2007.03.21, 11:22 AM
I guess it's good that this came up before I ordered brushes and went about rebuilding my motor. Is there a list of approved stock motors? I know the stock Kyosho motor is fine, but what about, say, an Atomic Standard? Sometimes the Kyosho's are not available. Does Manuel have any motors in stock? I don't recall seeing any at the last race.

wsaenotsock
2007.03.21, 11:42 AM
I took my stock AWD motor apart to turn the endbell around so it would fit in my 02. Guess I won't be doing that anymore. It was still slow as crap, lolz. I think I burnt it up trying to run it in stock with my AWD. :D

ChattavegasSE
2007.03.21, 12:47 PM
I don't remember Miguel having any stock motors the last time we raced; but he did have a stock X-Speed V motor. I've been thinking about getting another Ready Set or two so I can race in the stock class. :eek:

pinoyboy
2007.03.21, 01:14 PM
I guess it's good that this came up before I ordered brushes and went about rebuilding my motor. Is there a list of approved stock motors? I know the stock Kyosho motor is fine, but what about, say, an Atomic Standard? Sometimes the Kyosho's are not available. Does Manuel have any motors in stock? I don't recall seeing any at the last race.


The shop here has some Kyosho stock motors. During the time of this post, they have only 5 in stock
http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=17009

Yesterday, Miguel had 3 stock motors. Right now, I think we're sticking to motors that are included in the chassis and ready sets. These motors have around 70 turn armatures.

motor specs (http://www.microrccenter.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=20048)

I think the Atomic standard has the same arm as the Atomic stock motor(47 turns), but it has a bushing can and endbell.

imxlr8ed
2007.03.21, 05:32 PM
Might want to look into the new HFAY Spec motors... I don't know if you've seen that thread, they are currently looking for pre-orders. If you don't have access to that thread, I'd email Briankstan and find out.

Pinoyboy... never throw stuff like that away, that's $$$ in the toilet. You never know when you'll need them again. If there's one thing I can say about rules, rules change all the time.