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Sinister_Y
2007.04.12, 12:15 PM
I've been playing around with a zapper and some fujicell AAA batteries.

Well, I managed to burnup (break seals of) 12 cells with the following process, i.e. don't do this! discharge cell/ zapp at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours/cycle 3 times at 1amp charge/discharge. I managed to pull the cells out of the charger before they caused a meltdown/fire. They broke the seals and were starting to leak acid.

What does seem to work (but still working on this) is to one of the following:

a) discharge new cell, zapp at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours/ use break-in of maha c9000 charger. This does not break the seals of the cell (i.e. lead acid). Some of the Voltages I've gotten after the break-in are good, i.e. 1.43V-1.44V. I still have to cycle them at the proper 1amp charge/discharge and then match them. we'll see that numbers then

b) run break-in mode on c9000 charger. zapp the cell at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours. I've still got to cycle these cells to find out voltage differences from break-in. Break-in without zapping first yielded max 1.42V with most around 1.41V (see other thread).

I will keep y'all posted with my findings.

Also note that I am also doing a 50 pack with just break-in/matching- no zapping. Just to see the difference in all these methods.

kaz
2007.04.12, 12:28 PM
Very interesting, ive got a zapper but i've never had the balls to zap any AAA cells.. Done some matching on Varta IC3 though..

Do you know how the break-in of maha c9000 charger works? Trickle charge? amps? anything special?

Would like to try this myself :)

casual
2007.04.12, 10:07 PM
how do you match your cells?

Sinister_Y
2007.04.13, 12:51 PM
kaz, info from the maha site:

Break-In: Also known as IEC capacity measurement and "Battery Forming". Charges battery at 0.1C for 16 hours, rest for one hour, discharges battery at 0.2C, then recharges again at 0.1C for 16 hours.

casual, the C9000 gives you capacity, time and voltage. When matching, i've used voltage first and then capacity (closest capacity for the voltage). basically, I'm looking for punch as the 1000mah cells have more than enough capacity (i.e. run time) for a qualifier/race.

Spec-C MA-010
2007.04.14, 05:05 PM
I've been playing around with a zapper and some fujicell AAA batteries.

Well, I managed to burnup (break seals of) 12 cells with the following process, i.e. don't do this! discharge cell/ zapp at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours/cycle 3 times at 1amp charge/discharge. I managed to pull the cells out of the charger before they caused a meltdown/fire. They broke the seals and were starting to leak acid.

What does seem to work (but still working on this) is to one of the following:

a) discharge new cell, zapp at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours/ use break-in of maha c9000 charger. This does not break the seals of the cell (i.e. lead acid). Some of the Voltages I've gotten after the break-in are good, i.e. 1.43V-1.44V. I still have to cycle them at the proper 1amp charge/discharge and then match them. we'll see that numbers then

b) run break-in mode on c9000 charger. zapp the cell at 20-32V/rest for 72 hours. I've still got to cycle these cells to find out voltage differences from break-in. Break-in without zapping first yielded max 1.42V with most around 1.41V (see other thread).

I will keep y'all posted with my findings.

Also note that I am also doing a 50 pack with just break-in/matching- no zapping. Just to see the difference in all these methods.


What Zapper are you using? My buddy and I where talking the other day about this very subject.

Sinister_Y
2007.04.14, 10:58 PM
i n t e g y DCX9000

since this zapper is kind of old school, i.e. analog meter...whereas new ones are digital. That is why I refered to between 20-32V as it's not completely accurate...

kartermdb
2007.04.15, 10:50 AM
i use their newer version zapper and ive zapped my intellects, fujis and atomic green cells all at 35 volts and only had one cell break the seal, and they all cycle out higher and still have the same if not more runtime

rharris
2007.04.16, 04:10 PM
I've got a few questions...

Take a look at this...

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/rejuv.html

This home made zapper will only zap cells at 3.0 volts max. It seems like zapping at 20 volts is way to high. How do you come up with the number of volts to zap at?

Also, Integrity makes the DXC3300 - looks like it will do the job.

Sinister_Y
2007.04.17, 11:05 AM
rharris, I'm no battery guru, but I do have friends with very respectable experience in this regard. From my understanding after speaking with them is that the point of zapping is to basically weld the electrode contacts together (which are inside of the battery). By doing this, it creates a solid connection, i.e. which can result in higher voltage from cell. Why I say 'can' is that the contact maybe good already.

Zapping needs high voltage in order to make contacts weld together. In my hubble opinion 3 v isn't going to do anything but waste your time.

Regarding the voltage for zapping for AAA...it's pretty much based on experimentation. If you go too high, you'll actually blow up the cell. That is why they tell you to wear safety glasses. I know for a fact some guys who have blown up cells by zapping (sub-C for 1/10 racing) before.

What I was told previously was that those cell matching companies to get the highest voltage for sticker purposes (i.e. sell you their stuff) is to zap right from the factory, rest and then match. Because there is still some residual juice left in the cells, they get artifically higher voltage numbers. Also, this may result in higher discharge voltage for racing for a limited time, i.e. 2 weeks max. Then, they are either sold, thrown out or religated to practice packs. For longetivity, I was told to wake up the cell first, this could be by 3 cycles and then zap, rest and then match. This should produce stable and correct voltage readings and is easier on the cell, i.e. last longer. I decided since those fuji are so cheap (IMO), that I would do 3 different types of processes: 1) like factory matching- no regard for cell 2) my take on break-in, zap and then cycle/match 3) no zapping, just break-in and then cycle 3 x and then match (as a control process)

Regarding voltage setting again, I'm experimenting based on my friend's recommendations, i.e. no higher than 35V. As per karter, he's zapped at 35V regularly with only one issue (blowing the seals). As per batteryuniversity.com, which I consider a good source of info, there has been no feedback from battery manufacturers whether zapping works or not, however, in my testing, it has made a difference.

Yah, the zapper looks good. I didn't want to shell out for a zapper and borrowed my friends instead as this was really something I would only do rarely.

kartermdb
2007.04.18, 08:07 PM
how many volts were they using to volt sub c's to blow them up?, i zap mine at 95 volts all the time and have no problems, and the cells are zapped at 400 volts when they are brand new, just because it gets the most out of the cell.

EMU
2007.12.31, 01:30 AM
Any follow up on this Sinister? I would really like to know the long term effect of Zap > Break in > Match or Break in > Zap > Match. I had a few sets of Duratrax 750 cells zapped. I ran them in a few heats fresh out of the pack (no cycling with my Maha), then they were zapped around 85v. During the week I am going to cycle and match them.

These are pretty cheap cells, and they are really hit or miss as far as capacity is concerned... I have been doing manual cycling... Charging in a Duracell 30 minute charger, and discharging in the Maha... to try to increase the time. I have also been discharing with a bulb discharger just to get cycles in faster. I will test later in the week and match the cells. I think I will look at the voltage around the 30 minute mark on the discharge and compare the discharge capacity to do my matching.

I dont think that these cells will make good race cells, but they should do good for qualify's and mains with K-stock motors.

EMU
2009.03.19, 01:08 AM
I know I am digging up an old thread, but have you come up with anything conclusive whether or not it is worth anything to Zap the cells?