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View Full Version : HFAY OLPS Season 4 Manual !


imxlr8ed
2007.06.14, 04:43 PM
Here it is, please review carefully! Not too many modifications, but the new HFAY Spec Motor is in there, also an expanded point scale. (same thing really, just goes to 300 now.)

Any questions, let us know!

byebye
2007.06.14, 08:56 PM
Rule 16 and 17 are the same.

Kris

imxlr8ed
2007.06.15, 12:15 AM
Good catch... I'll update it now.

Done... caught something else too, there used to be a part of the Electronics rule for MiniZs that is no longer needed, the MA010 ESC in MA010 only part of it. Really doesn't need to be in there now. (missed it for Season 3 too :o )

Anything else, let me know!

briankstan
2007.06.19, 12:31 AM
I'm being sent out of town on the 20th. if we can wrap up all discussions by the 20th. that way I can gather all of the info and get the website updated for season 4.

Ed, after Wednesday will you send me the final copy of the Manual in both formats. thanks

imxlr8ed
2007.06.19, 12:40 PM
No problem.

homestar21
2007.07.08, 02:34 AM
I wanted to bump a more recent thread, but, seeing as this is more related to Season 4, I
wanted to ask:
When does season 4 officially start, as I want to qualify, but I'm not so sure I'm ready right exactly now. I really want to join a local club (SRC) and participate in the Under 16 class. :)
Thanks!

briankstan
2007.07.08, 11:02 AM
I wanted to bump a more recent thread, but, seeing as this is more related to Season 4, I
wanted to ask:
When does season 4 officially start, as I want to qualify, but I'm not so sure I'm ready right exactly now. I really want to join a local club (SRC) and participate in the Under 16 class. :)
Thanks!

you will want to contact them ASAP. S4 started this month (july). it's not about being ready. it's about having fun. it really doesn't matter wher your skill level sits now. start racing and watch yourself improve.

homestar21
2007.07.09, 01:48 PM
Thanks! :)

svt-racer
2007.08.02, 06:30 PM
Dear Judges:

What is the point of not having any drops this season? What are you trying to achieve with this rule? 12 races total, two per month for 6 months. I don't get it. Why you need 12 and not 10 out of 12? Are you all expecting 100% committment/support from all the racers in the clubs? I do not intend to get anybody upset about this, but this rule does not make any sense to me at all. A key to running a successful R/C series requires certain level of flexibility when it comes down to the rules for the event, specially if it is such an event that spans over a period of 6 months. I don't know who was thinking about this rule, other than...they were not planning on missing a single event, they are probably single people with no kids/family or perhaps a job to take care of. I don't get it.

I like the national/international level competition, but missing one event, under these rules, will for sure put a competitor pretty much out of contention for the title or at least being in the top 10. That being said, you will notice that after missing one event, they would feel discouraged in competing in a series like this.

Just a word of advise for future seasons, make sure you include at least a couple of drops per season. Believe me, it will be worth it. Take this advise from a person that used to run an off-road R/C series with a regular attendance for each points series race of approx 200 entries. The series lasted from November through March and we had 10 races with 2 drops. A high percentage (>80%) of the racers made the 8 races for the points and got the benefit of the 2 drops that were offered by either missing one or both days or simply having one or two bad days at the track.

Any chance of getting this rule modified for this season to allow once again the two drops in the season? Thanks in advance.

homestar21
2007.08.02, 07:09 PM
Dear Judges:

What is the point of not having any drops this season? What are you trying to achieve with this rule? 12 races total, two per month for 6 months. I don't get it. Why you need 12 and not 10 out of 12? Are you all expecting 100% committment/support from all the racers in the clubs? I do not intend to get anybody upset about this, but this rule does not make any sense to me at all. A key to running a successful R/C series requires certain level of flexibility when it comes down to the rules for the event, specially if it is such an event that spans over a period of 6 months. I don't know who was thinking about this rule, other than...they were not planning on missing a single event, they are probably single people with no kids/family or perhaps a job to take care of. I don't get it.

I like the national/international level competition, but missing one event, under these rules, will for sure put a competitor pretty much out of contention for the title or at least being in the top 10. That being said, you will notice that after missing one event, they would feel discouraged in competing in a series like this.

Just a word of advise for future seasons, make sure you include at least a couple of drops per season. Believe me, it will be worth it. Take this advise from a person that used to run an off-road R/C series with a regular attendance for each points series race of approx 200 entries. The series lasted from November through March and we had 10 races with 2 drops. A high percentage (>80%) of the racers made the 8 races for the points and got the benefit of the 2 drops that were offered by either missing one or both days or simply having one or two bad days at the track.

Any chance of getting this rule modified for this season to allow once again the two drops in the season? Thanks in advance.

I agree, I already missed one race because I had to get home early for Church. I believe there can be a slight modification to the rules to allow this, otherwise, I would be very discouraged.
Thanks!

arch2b
2007.08.02, 07:26 PM
drops are a contentious issue. there is already lengthy threads/debate on the pros and cons. the judges voted and a majority vote wins. this season anyway, drops were eliminated. this does not preclude us from voting again for s5...

unless there was overwhelming campaign for reinstating drops, i'm talking HUGE movement here, i don't see any midseason changes being made this as it was debated at length by the judges as well.

for the record, i happen to agree that drops are a necessity as every club has issues to deal with. i've already made my point however and the vote is what is it is for this season and i respect the decision of the group as a whole. PLEASE encourage your judge to participate in teh hfay judges forum. i will publicly disclose that roughly half of the judges participate thus your clubs opinions may not be expressed/heard nor thier votes cast/counted.

svt-racer
2007.08.02, 07:33 PM
How large of a movement are we talking about? I will be more than willing to start the movement and try to re-instate a very sensible rule for which I believe most of the 150 plus racers we expect this season will likely vote fore. Honestly! It is the right thing to do. Not to try to step over the judges decision, but I think it should be open for discussion in the forum and allow the racers to vote in their opinion appealing to the reinstatement of the 2 drop races for the season.

Sorry I could not find the previous thread about this subject. I would have posted my original post there.

arch2b
2007.08.02, 07:48 PM
i'm talking BIG...

the most effective method however is actually getting all the judges to vote so make sure your judge knows how thier club feels and votes accordingly. think of it like an electorial college... your judge should be voting the way your clubs majority feels necessary. in this case, a majority of the judges that did vote, voted to not include them this season.

i encourage the public debate of hfay by everyone however your clubs judge casts the vote for your club under the current system. rules are determined by the judges decision so if it works as it should, the results reflect the majority opinion of all the racers.

now, if this system in itself is in question (which you have every right to challenge) than please continue to debate this issue in a new thread. i will tell you that it's hard enough to get a large number of the judges to vote, i can tell you with all honesty that getting any large number of hfay racers to do so as well withing a reasonable amount of time would be just as difficult if not impossible in my opinion. lets be honest, maybe upwards of 80% of the people reading this forum do not post frequently.

arch2b
2007.08.02, 07:53 PM
fyi, so it's perfectly clear and no room for confusion, i am but one member of hfay and just one of MANY judges. i am of no more importance to hfay than any other judge nor do i carry more influence or powers than any other judge. i just happen to be a very outspoken person so you see alot posted from me on issues. DO NOT mistake this for anything other than what it is, one hfay members opinion...

svt-racer
2007.08.02, 08:26 PM
Not a problem. I have read many of your posts in the past, and you are very involved in the forum. I just don't know how many judges are in the HFAY org currently setup. How many clubs are running the HFAY series? Etc. I will setup a different thread to carry on with this conversation if you guys prefer. I thought that perhaps this discussion would fit under the title HFAY season manual. Thanks for the input and your opinion.

imxlr8ed
2007.08.03, 03:08 AM
It's a painful issue... I know where all of my club members fell on this one, and all I did was voice their opinion. I just keep the manual together, I wrote the first one with fairness in mind and all the other Judges guidance, and every change since has been voted on, or discussed thoroughly. I hope that's the way it will be for the rest of this HFAY's future.

We are always open to change... if the general consensus goes the other way, the rule will change.

I have always seen both sides of this issue, and always will. I voted for it this time around, just seemed to be the right thing to do. I've discussed this with racers from all sorts... and they all seemed to be on the no point drop side of the fence. As this series grows, and more and more people gain a devotion to this scale... I don't think the point drop rule will even be a question in the future. (only an opinion... but you know what they're like! ;) )

I will also say here that with the new pre-submittal rule... it really should make it easier for scheduling with clubs.

Once again... I'll use Arch's disclaimer here, he said it better than I. "I am but one member of HFAY" I am not the one voice here... and no one ever will be! :cool:

(feel like saying "We the people!" here... or something)

Get your opinion out there... this series doesn't work without it!

briankstan
2007.08.03, 11:05 PM
Just a clarification from me on a few comments.

1. I have a family, work, run a race club and HFAY...so having the drops in there could possibly help/hurt me. (trust me I have a very busy schedule.)

2. I think in 3 seasons we as a club have missed only 2 races. (we have had a member or 2 miss more than that)

3. with the new format you could run all the races at one time, allowing a maximum # of oppurtunities to get your races in.

4. the drops not only help those that miss a race, but as the same time can hurt those that don't. (tossing points rather than Zeros).

with all that said I could really care less if the drops are/aren't there.

I will run all the races I can and if I have to miss one, than I suffer the results.

this arguement has great support on both sides. as stated above the rules are open for discussion and can change, we at HFAY are managed by those that races. voice your opinions and let them be know. WE ARE LISTENING !!.

rharris
2007.08.04, 01:13 AM
Ok, we got confused along the way concerning when times are submitted...

Are we subbmitting every other month? or every month?

I got the impression that we had till Sept to submit times for July and August (race 1,2,3 and 4).

Is this correct?

arch2b
2007.08.04, 08:13 AM
can't say for sure but the way i thought it works is you can run races in ADVANCE so all times should be submitted at the conclusion of the event. thus all of the times should be on time. we can not run races AFTER the scheduled month nor submit times for them.

i'd wait for confirmation on this but this is how i understood it.

brian does bring up a good point though. the ability to run events in advance should help with club scheduling etc. if we know we will not be able to run in a given month we can run those races any month prior to the missed month. we will almost certainly have to take adavantage of that atleast once this season.

imxlr8ed
2007.08.04, 02:28 PM
The times for July should be submitted sometime this week. I know Brian offered an extension or something like that, so there's an extended deadline this month.

But here's how I'm going to do it for my club, and how I thought others may do it as well if they wanted to.

July & August events ran in July, send both in this week.

September & October events run in September, send both in the end of September.

November & December events run in November, send both in the end of November

I was going to do just 1 raceday with 3 events in July, and another in October to get in the next 3 events, but attendance was limited this first event, and we were'nt too motivated in the heat to change the track again this last time.

The idea is to submit the times ahead of the month that they are required to be in by. It's the same it was, except that if a club desires, they can race the events earlier if they choose.

I'm not sure of the exact deadline this month... Hey, SVT...maybe you could convince some of the crew there at AA to quick get in a make-up race? Remember, you only need 3 drivers on the track, and their scores don't have to count. (but they must use transponders when they run with you) So if you have 2 members willing to help you out there, you could possibly still get them in.

PS... Brian, I'm going to send in ours tomorrow evening. What is the exact deadline here this month? I know we had a thread back there somewhere discussing this... just can't seem to find it.

briankstan
2007.08.05, 10:02 PM
Times need to be submitted by 10am on August 8th.

for running events in advance, you need to submit the times early rather than later, you can run them in advance, and they need to be turned in after they are run...

briankstan
2007.08.05, 10:04 PM
Ok, we got confused along the way concerning when times are submitted...

Are we subbmitting every other month? or every month?

I got the impression that we had till Sept to submit times for July and August (race 1,2,3 and 4).

Is this correct?

times still need to be submitted every month. if you run an event in advance you can submit those times early.

svt-racer
2007.08.07, 09:25 PM
So for the points of the month, the latest date to submit is the last day of the month. But if you are submitting points in advance for the next month, they they need to be in within the first week?

Points for July event 1 race 1 &2, when will they be posted? How come this season the arrangement setup for last season seem to have fallen apart? By this team, the results would have been posted already.

will3kgt
2007.08.08, 12:31 AM
It's a painful issue... I know where all of my club members fell on this one, and all I did was voice their opinion. I just keep the manual together, I wrote the first one with fairness in mind and all the other Judges guidance, and every change since has been voted on, or discussed thoroughly. I hope that's the way it will be for the rest of this HFAY's future.

We are always open to change... if the general consensus goes the other way, the rule will change.

I have always seen both sides of this issue, and always will. I voted for it this time around, just seemed to be the right thing to do. I've discussed this with racers from all sorts... and they all seemed to be on the no point drop side of the fence. As this series grows, and more and more people gain a devotion to this scale... I don't think the point drop rule will even be a question in the future. (only an opinion... but you know what they're like! ;) )

I will also say here that with the new pre-submittal rule... it really should make it easier for scheduling with clubs.

Once again... I'll use Arch's disclaimer here, he said it better than I. "I am but one member of HFAY" I am not the one voice here... and no one ever will be! :cool:

(feel like saying "We the people!" here... or something)

Get your opinion out there... this series doesn't work without it!
As a member who makes it a point to make every race, I feel there should be 2 drops in this series, that's part of why it's so succsessful. If I were to place higher only because someone missed a couple of races, I don't how that whould sit with me. When there's two drops, it gives a person a chance to place well in the series and gives motivation to those who show up for every event as well as those who can't for whatever reason. In every season, I dropped a few spots because of the drops, I never get bitter, I tip my hat to those placed higher than me by virtue of the drops. Any of us who race in any other scale of racing knows that there are two drops in a season it's almost R/C racing law in any scale. (As it should be in ours.) I'd just hate for anyone in this series to lose intrest because they felt they didn't have a chance place well. This is just my opinion.

briankstan
2007.08.08, 01:20 AM
So for the points of the month, the latest date to submit is the last day of the month. But if you are submitting points in advance for the next month, they they need to be in within the first week?

Points for July event 1 race 1 &2, when will they be posted? How come this season the arrangement setup for last season seem to have fallen apart? By this team, the results would have been posted already.


no races that are run in advance just need to be submitted prior to the deadline for that pacticular track. it's just that simple. if the race is closed I'm not going to go back and update the times because somebody runs late. I'm not going to do that to myself.

the reason for the extended period (which is only this month) is because I was about a week late in getting all the info for Season 4 on the website, it seemed reasonable to give the extra time to get them in.

imxlr8ed
2007.08.08, 02:19 AM
I'd just hate for anyone in this series to lose intrest because they felt they didn't have a chance place well. This is just my opinion.

Double edged sword there with the drops... speaking from my own experience with my members. There were a few members (in all different clubs) who made it a point to get to each race, drove hours to get to the track to lay down their times... say a racer as such does this, attends every race only to be snuffed from a spot in the top three by a low point drop. Can you honestly say that racer isn't going to lose interest?

Like I said previously... it's a point that will be talked about and should continue to be. I would also like to say that it's always going to be an evolving issue. Ok... look at it this way, we've done the drop system, tried it... now were trying it this way for this season. If it doesn't work out for the majority, then we can easily switch back. We're all up against a huge learning curve here, HFAY is still young and as time goes on I know it will gain greater refinement. If something works well, we stick with it... and vice versa.

We are all listening.

arch2b
2007.08.08, 08:39 AM
...Like I said previously... it's a point that will be talked about and should continue to be. I would also like to say that it's always going to be an evolving issue. Ok... look at it this way, we've done the drop system, tried it... now were trying it this way for this season. If it doesn't work out for the majority, then we can easily switch back. We're all up against a huge learning curve here, HFAY is still young and as time goes on I know it will gain greater refinement. If something works well, we stick with it... and vice versa...
excellent viewpoint, one i had not presented and should have in many of my arguements.

will3kgt
2007.08.09, 03:48 PM
Well, I believe it's an issue that simply should be voted on and that will just solve everything. It really doesn't matter to me what happens, having no drops only benifits me, like I said before I just want everyone to have a good chance of placing well should they not be able to make a race or two.

arch2b
2007.08.09, 04:08 PM
i think it's a bit early to begin a vote for s5 considering we have yet to have any results posted yet for s4 and ruling for s4 is pretty much set in stone.

i am sure we will get to it by october/november. please be sure to encourage EVERY club judge to participate. :)