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briankstan
2007.07.06, 12:57 AM
I have posted the final Results for Seaon 3 on the HFAY website.

HOW FAST ARE YOU? (http://hfay.tinyrc.com/Home/tabid/64/Default.aspx)

Again Sorry for the delay. I do my best. :o


Congratulations to Brad, onrailz and Spoon for the top 3 spots respectively.

also congrats to Casey for an amazing season running the Xmod EVO he finished the entire season on 26th place. That is one quick Xmod. :cool:

Get your Cars Tuned up and ready to go Season 4 is underway.....Don't forget we have different tracks and a few different Rules. Make sure to read the new Manual.

Season 4 Manual (http://hfay.tinyrc.com/portals/0/files/OLPS-Manual-Season-4.pdf)

imxlr8ed
2007.07.06, 02:24 AM
Congrats to all!!! :D

Brian, I'm gonna put up for a new RTR MiniZ for the 16 & under prize. Just waiting for David's confirmation. (he'll provide the G.C.) Would like to send something out to the 2nd and 3rd place Rookies as well... just some extra gear I have around, I will need their Judge's mailing address. (they're both from SRC)

Thumbing around the participating club sites, it's a great feeling to know that this series keeps turning out to be everything we've ever hoped for! Glad to see how driven the competition is for all! :cool:

See you all in Season 4... hope us Dorks didn't get too rusty at it!

(look out everyone... Casey's gonna have a Z! :eek: )

rharris
2007.07.06, 03:28 AM
Email Sent.

that Casey is something else. It will be fun to see what he does this season with a mini-z.

See ya all in Season 4

arch2b
2007.07.06, 08:26 AM
congrats to everyone!!!!

looks like we will be the defending club champs next season;)

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 11:01 AM
Congrats to all. It was a great season. Looking forward to season 4 with the new motors!

Hood
2007.07.06, 11:07 AM
Arch where did you see the club championship points?

I can't believe we got beat when we had five of our drivers in the top 10.. We usually only have six drivers show up for events, and some others that borrowed cars or ran a race or two..

How are these points figured?

Hood

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 11:14 AM
Brian, the finish positions are not number sequentially after position 27. It looks like the points are ordered correctly but the finish position is not.

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 11:18 AM
Arch where did you see the club championship points?

I can't believe we got beat when we had five of our drivers in the top 10.. We usually only have six drivers show up for events, and some others that borrowed cars or ran a race or two..

How are these points figured?

Hood

The club championship points don't seem to make sense to me either. If I understand correctly they're calculated by the average overall finish position of all drivers from the club. My opinion is that this calculation should be changed to only include the top 3 or top 5 drivers from each club. Otherwise, if it's left as is, it discourages clubs from allowing newbies (or even racers that can't make it to every event).

briankstan
2007.07.06, 11:19 AM
Brian, the finish positions are not number sequentially after position 27. It looks like the points are ordered correctly but the finish position is not.

Damn. I forgot to adjust those after I figured in the drops for the last races. I hate it when that happens. I'll get it fixed when I get home. thanks for the letting me know.

briankstan
2007.07.06, 11:23 AM
The club championship points don't seem to make sense to me either. If I understand correctly they're calculated by the average overall finish position of all drivers from the club. My opinion is that this calculation should be changed to only include the top 3 or top 5 drivers from each club. Otherwise, if it's left as is, it discourages clubs from allowing newbies (or even racers that can't make it to every event).


the club points are calulated by all points accumulated by the club members divided by the # of races that were participated in..

so it's basically the best average finish by the club.

I know we have some rookies too and it takes it's toll on our finish as well. ;)

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 11:26 AM
Damn. I forgot to adjust those after I figured in the drops for the last races. I hate it when that happens. I'll get it fixed when I get home. thanks for the letting me know.

It happens. I can manually make the changes if you'd like; you can then verify tonight. Let me know if this is ok.

briankstan
2007.07.06, 11:26 AM
It happens. I can manually make the changes if you'd like; you can then verify tonight. Let me know if this is ok.

if you don't mind. thanks.

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 11:50 AM
They're fixed.

Hood
2007.07.06, 12:28 PM
Just did some calculating..

Mini-AZ had five drivers that attended all 12 races, those people were all in the top 10.

We had two that raced six of the twelve races, and two that ran 4 races, one that ran 3 races, and 4 that ran two races with loaner cars.

I calculated the total points for our club at 16423, and 91 entries in the 12 events. This calculates to 180.47 points not the 160.xxx that it shows on the HFAY page. Can someone please review these points to ensure that it was calculated correctly..

I still don't understand how we didn't win the Club Championship. Brad won the overall, and we put 5 cars in the top 10..

How about a prize for the most improved club, we had no cars in the top 10 last season..!!??

Don't take my posts wrong..! We are really enjoying the HFAY races, and can't wait for the new season.

imxlr8ed
2007.07.06, 12:40 PM
2 attendances (or non-attendances) per driver get dropped with the low point drop when going towards the club average.

We had alot of heads scratching in Season 2... thought for sure DOW would bring it home then.

Yes... newbies will kill your average for the Club Championship.

So... anyone up for a new calculating method?

(club with the most drivers in the top 20?)

We'll have to discuss in the judge's forum.

Hood
2007.07.06, 12:49 PM
Is that only for the drivers that attended all 12 races, or does that eliminate the people that just attened 2 races?

We get an even better total either way.. if we drop 2 races from the people that attended all 12 races. 14692 points and 79 races = 185.97

Or, eliminate two runs from everyone and recalc.. 11463 points in 61 races =187.91

I still don't understand.. How did you come to the figures on the HFAY site..

Hood

briankstan
2007.07.06, 01:24 PM
Is that only for the drivers that attended all 12 races, or does that eliminate the people that just attened 2 races?

We get an even better total if we drop 2 races from the people that attended all 12 races. 14692 points and 81 races = 181.38

I still don't understand..

Hood

it is based on scored points. so if you have drivers show up for only 2 races then it counts the 2 races because those points are not dropped.

I can check my calculations tonight when I get home.

so what happens is this.

take all the final points from everyone in your club that ran. for every race that everyone ran and give them 1 point for each race.

add all the final points and divide it by the # of races run. that gives you the average that the club championship is based on.

Hood
2007.07.06, 01:28 PM
Brian,

Thanks for checking..

Do we use the 10 race points or 12 race points for people that attended all races?

If someone only ran one direction (shows up late) he gets 1 point and both directions gets 2 points, correct?

briankstan
2007.07.06, 01:32 PM
Brian,

Thanks for checking..

Do we use the 10 race points or 12 race points for people that attended all races?

If someone only ran one direction (shows up late) he gets 1 point and both directions gets 2 points, correct?

we go off of the 10 races that are scored.

if a person only run 1 direction it's 1 point, the other direction it's 2 ( 1 for each race run).

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 02:45 PM
...

Yes... newbies will kill your average for the Club Championship.

So... anyone up for a new calculating method?

(club with the most drivers in the top 20?)

We'll have to discuss in the judge's forum.

I don't have access to the judges forum (even though I think I'm an official judge for our club) so I can't participate in any discussion there, so I'll put my 2 cents in right here.

The current method HIGHLY DISCOURAGES clubs from allowing newbies to participate (if they're interested in their club performing well in the club championship). I would think that we would want to do the exact opposite: encourage newbies and reward the clubs with the best drivers.

I'm not sure how that would translate into a method for computing club championship but I would certainly agree that it a new method is needed.

Anyone know how Nascar awards team points? Could we use a similar system? Perhaps only award club points for top 10 finishes? I realize this wouldn't rank every club, as not every club has drivers finishing in the top 10, but it would eliminate the "newbie penalty" for clubs and would encourage clubs to bring in more people to participate. The club championship rankings would then also better reflect the overall point standings.

briankstan
2007.07.06, 02:56 PM
I don't have access to the judges forum (even though I think I'm an official judge for our club) so I can't participate in any discussion there, so I'll put my 2 cents in right here.

I'll get you access to the judges forum... :cool:


it looks like I need to check my calculations. I might have had a formula calculating wrong for the club championship points.

I will check it out when I get home and make any corrections if nessacay.

sorry for the confusion on this. :o

arch2b
2007.07.06, 03:01 PM
you should have access now;)

we had lots of one or two timers racing in dc as well as newbies drop in and out. we actually had a small margin of drivers who made most if not all the races. to be honest, winning club champ doesn't change a thing for us as we will continue to have newbies and guests drop in and out with us. it has not discourage this behavior for us one bit.
the club champ for us was more of a welcome surprise but if all i'm going to read about is how this upsets(not is an angery way hoepfully) other clubs, then i will petition to drop the thing all together. i dont' recall any of this coming up when aa won back to back titles and have to say it's a bit disappointing and casts a shadow over the award.

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 03:02 PM
So... anyone up for a new calculating method?

(club with the most drivers in the top 20?)


btw, going by the club with the most drivers in the top 20 could prevent a small club from winning the championship. Even if all of their members took all of the top spots a larger club could still win the championship if they had more drivers in the 9-20 finishing positions.

Whatever method is used should factor in the size of the club in such a way that all clubs are put on a level playing field. This way a club of only 3 people could win the championship just as easily as a club with 30 people. Even the method I gave in my last post would need some adjusting. Example:

Narrow the field to the top 10 finishers for each race. Then, total the finishing positions for each clubs' members (in the 10 ten) and divide by the number of members finishing in the top 10. Do this for each club, each race, and you get the each club's ranking for that race. Then reward club points accordingly. Total these points at the end of the season and you get the overall club championship.

briankstan
2007.07.06, 03:15 PM
We also need to keep it simple. My little head is going to explode tyring to keep all these formulas in order.

http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/Public/hammer.gif

GrfxDan
2007.07.06, 04:15 PM
We also need to keep it simple. My little head is going to explode tyring to keep all these formulas in order.

http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/Public/hammer.gif

Any update on Rod getting the whole points system automated?

Should I take a stab at it? Not that I have the time to do so.

imxlr8ed
2007.07.06, 05:50 PM
Yeah... guess you're right about membership levels too.

Man... this whole being fair thing is a real pain in the a**! :rolleyes:

We here at DOW are planning to trick our newbie drivers by telling them the wrong dates for the races!!! (Oh... did I post that date wrong?... I'm sorry! :p ) j/k

We should all come up with a better scheme for this... we kinda just slammed the current formula together, seems a good time to evolve a better system.

Sounds like a poll thread is in order... Arch? ;)

Get your ideas out there...

Hood
2007.07.06, 05:55 PM
you should have access now;)

we had lots of one or two timers racing in dc as well as newbies drop in and out. we actually had a small margin of drivers who made most if not all the races. to be honest, winning club champ doesn't change a thing for us as we will continue to have newbies and guests drop in and out with us. it has not discourage this behavior for us one bit.
the club champ for us was more of a welcome surprise but if all i'm going to read about is how this upsets(not is an angery way hoepfully) other clubs, then i will petition to drop the thing all together. i dont' recall any of this coming up when aa won back to back titles and have to say it's a bit disappointing and casts a shadow over the award.

Arch,

I still need access to the judges forum also..

I only brought it up, because we in AZ has such a huge improvement.. We had half of the top ten drivers, We had the season Champion, We did special events at hobbyshops to encourage more attendance and newbies, we had loaner cars available for anyone that showed up, we have been working hard since last July (when I began racing Zs). We have been able to get our club attendance up from 3 drivers, We found really nice locations to run our events, We go onto our morning news here in Phoenix, and I really thought we were going to win the Club Championship with 5 of the top 10 drivers. When I saw the results and we were in 4th place, I couldn't believe it..!

I didn't mean to take the wind out of your sails on winning, I just question how this is determined.. I look forward to racing everyone next season as well, and hope I didn't step on any toes today..

While I looked up the info, I did notice that DC had six really good drivers and two of them didn't make all the races. They also had two part time attenders that finished very high up when they raced.. I won't be disappointed if we finish the season behind you, but I would like it explained..

Hood

Dusty Weasle
2007.07.06, 07:38 PM
Ok, wow. (I was expecting 2nd or 3rd for AZ).

Congratulations DC!

For anyone outside the Judges Forum wondering how the Club Championship was arrived at, let me try and clear up the idea, since that was my baby. (Also remember the CC is just for bragging rights fun).

The Club Championship idea was to give clubs a collective goal to shoot for and encourage teamwork across all skill levels. Itís based upon the Formula One series Constructorís Championship (NASCAR doesnít do team points). In F1 all teams are two cars. The CC is determined by adding the total points from both cars together.

Now in the OLPS, since some clubs have three drivers and some have 30, the key to leveling the playing field was to divide the points scored by the number of participants. Averaging allows small clubs to compete evenly with large clubs despite the points colleting disparity.

Making a cursory inspection of the points, it appears to me the system worked perfectly. For example, Red River Racersí three drivers were able to compete with the larger groups like DC and Mini-AZ. They didnít score often in the top ten, but they scored consistently high enough. While for example Mini-AZ was a bit more spread out.

I hope that sheds some light on the system.

arch2b
2007.07.06, 08:04 PM
dusty, thanks for the explination :)

hood, your in;)

briankstan
2007.07.06, 09:25 PM
I have adjusted the club points. I had some of my calulations wrong.

here they are checked and double checked.

DC GTG 184.1053
Mini-AZ 181.3827
Ann Arbor 180.3333
Red River Racers 164.6667
Stafford Racers UK 156.7826
Gackle 156.4211
Salt Lake Mini-Z 155.1321
Flip Side Racing 148.5155
SRC 148.3307
NEMA 138.7791
RMXRC 137.4459
CIMR 127.8333

Hood
2007.07.06, 09:26 PM
Brian sent me the corrections, and we did score in the 180s in second place.. DC won with many good runs and alot of good drivers..

Sorry for the delay in your celebration..

Mini-AZ finishes in second for the Club Championship, maybe next season we can bring home the banner.. You know we will be trying our hardest..

Hood

arch2b
2007.07.06, 09:30 PM
...Sounds like a poll thread is in order... Arch? ;) ...
started a thread for discussion. we will see where it goes :)

briankstan
2007.07.06, 09:33 PM
Brian sent me the corrections, and we did score in the 180s in second place.. DC won with many good runs and alot of good drivers..

Sorry for the delay in your celebration..

Mini-AZ finishes in second for the Club Championship, maybe next season we can bring home the banner.. You know we will be trying our hardest..

Hood

Hood, thanks for checking the #'s I need you guys to catch where I mess up. I did make some bad calulations that seemed to mess things up. What I had calulated was the #'s without dropping the races run, but with the points calulated with the drops. good catch. you guys keep me on my toes.