PDA

View Full Version : Season 4 motor question


TheRinger
2007.07.08, 08:21 PM
I was wondering if anyone else is having a drag problem with there season 4 motor? I have 2 of them and they both have alot of drag when off the throttle.

arch2b
2007.07.08, 08:59 PM
if your experienceing significant drag and heat build up it may be due to the reported issues with the armature alignment i think it is. if you feel these are inconsistent with other motors from our club submit a support ticket to have them replaced.

do your motors have the vent slots on the pinion end or not?

Spoon
2007.07.08, 09:13 PM
No drag on mine. I have another one that I'll break in and try out.

TheRinger
2007.07.08, 09:23 PM
if your experienceing significant drag and heat build up it may be due to the reported issues with the armature alignment i think it is. if you feel these are inconsistent with other motors from our club submit a support ticket to have them replaced.

do your motors have the vent slots on the pinion end or not?
No they don't. I can't make a support ticket because I went in on the order with soy who placed the order. The motor is acting OK at the moment but just to voice my opinion on HFAY motor choice I believe the HFAY motor should have been the X speed instead. I think its a better motor and more avaliable and smoother. Is anyone else having problems with the new HFAY motor?

GrfxDan
2007.07.08, 10:23 PM
Is anyone else having problems with the new HFAY motor?

Yes, I have. The HFAY motor armature is slightly larger than the stock motor and I could not get my alum motor mount (MA-010) to go on. I could force the stock plastic mount on the motor and then force the motor & mounts into the chassis but it gave me a very loud, high-pitched whine and some noticeable drag when off the throttle. My solution was to use my Dremel to open the alum motor mount holes just a hair so they would fit on the new motors (I have two of them and same problem with both). Once I did this they worked just fine; no more high-pitched whine and no more drag.

The only other issue I had was the motor leads weren't flexible enough at the point where they're soldered to the motor and I had to do some careful bending to get the motor to slide in the MA-010 chassis. Again, this was the case with both motors on both chassis. I think the cause was the solder went too far up the wires, thus the stiffness.

GrfxDan
2007.07.08, 10:27 PM
Oh yeah, one more thing: SEVERE torque steer on an AWD with the front diff set much tighter than the rear. Of course that's not a problem with the new motor, just a problem with the added power it provides. Solution: adjust the front & rear diffs to send more power to the rear and less to the front.

arch2b
2007.07.09, 08:03 AM
have soy submit the support ticket then. i should still have a free motor if you don't get a replacement by the 21st.

imxlr8ed
2007.07.09, 09:17 AM
I just dynoed (Indi type dyno) both my motors... one was pulling 18500 RPMs, and the other pulled nearly 29000. Both were run at the same voltage (5 if I recall correctly), and both were broke in at 1 volt for 1/2 hour using drops.

That's a pretty big difference for being a "Spec" Motor. I will email all of our findings to David tonight... hopefully we can settle this through Atomic somehow.

GrfxDan
2007.07.09, 09:33 AM
I just dynoed (Indi type dyno) both my motors... one was pulling 18500 RPMs, and the other pulled nearly 29000. Both were run at the same voltage (5 if I recall correctly), and both were broke in at 1 volt for 1/2 hour using drops.

That's a pretty big difference for being a "Spec" Motor. I will email all of our findings to David tonight... hopefully we can settle this through Atomic somehow.

18,500... that's low!

All of ours were broke in and dynoed before use. I think the lowest was around 28,000 and the fastest was around 37,000. Still a big difference but nothing as low as 18,500 - that's in the range of a Kyosho stock motor.

arch2b
2007.07.09, 09:44 AM
thanks for collecting all this data ed. fyi, if anyone else has documented motor stats please eamil them to david and cc ed. if you can please not which motor can type with the stats since we ended up with 2 types.

soyverde
2007.07.09, 12:00 PM
I just dynoed (Indi type dyno) both my motors... one was pulling 18500 RPMs, and the other pulled nearly 29000. Both were run at the same voltage (5 if I recall correctly), and both were broke in at 1 volt for 1/2 hour using drops.

That's a pretty big difference for being a "Spec" Motor. I will email all of our findings to David tonight... hopefully we can settle this through Atomic somehow.

I haven't run mine in a dyno, but this seems consistent with my observations of the two motors I placed in my HFAY candidates. They behave quite differently, and one has a noticeably large amount of torque (and matching drag brake off-throttle) compared to the other. Funny part is, the one with more drag is my HFAY car from last season, with dry racing bearings, kyosho diff, etc...certainly the smoother of the two cars prior to the motor swap (would roll backwards a couple of feet if I clipped a corner using a stock motor off-throttle). I'm currently hoping a bit more break-in will alter these qualities, though I don't know how realistic (or completely unfounded) that hope is. :(

imxlr8ed
2007.07.09, 12:43 PM
I tried the low motor in my car after the dyno, it's performance was very poor (the word performance might be mis-leading here). I'll just say this... I'm glad I bought 2 of them!

Weird part is, the faster one is the one that sounds like it's going to vibrate apart. I thought that it would be the slower of the two when I was breaking them in.

I know alot of other brands have performance variance from motor to motor, but this is by far, the worst I've ever seen. :(

We need to get Atomic onboard with these issues and find a corrective action.

I know alot of my crew are buying these motors, and if one would happen to get a dud motor... it's going to be quite painful watching them struggle around a track while getting passed by those who got lucky and got a good motor, or had enough money to buy a few of them.

lfisminiz
2007.07.09, 07:57 PM
If these spec motors are that much of differences, than you should of stuck with the stock Kyosho motors. I didnt try my 2 yet, but not sure if im looking forward to it. :(

TALLGEESE
2007.07.10, 12:12 AM
Arch2b helped me out and got me one of the season 4 motors and it had tons of drag when I was off-throttle.. It was so bad the rear of the car would step-out going into corners from the rear locking up..It was one of the first generation motors though, the motor I recieved had no vents in the can.. One of my friends got the HFAY season 4 motor at the same time and his motor had vents in the front of the can and his is running great so far with a little bit of drag-brake.. The same friend just got 2 more of them and the motor cans on those have vents running down the back of the can and 2 vents in the front as well..
My HFAY motor was broken in for a half-hour on the P+N motor stand, and except for the drag-brake off throttle it was a fast motor, really fast for a stock motor.. The last time I ran the season 4 motor it was extremely short on power though, so now I'm wondering if I should even run this motor at all.. I hope the newest editions of this motor have all the bugs worked out.. I'll try one of the most recent versions and see how it does, hopefully It will run smoother and last longer.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

imxlr8ed
2007.07.10, 01:24 AM
Now I just removed the pinion side shim from the dud motor and the Rpms seemed to come up fine now. But... I just made a Spec motor un-usable.

Could I, as a judge, be allowed to do the same to other Spec motors for my club members, and we could somehow get a vote on this being an allowable modification? I'm thinking worst-case scenario here, but if it's done under judge's supervision, why not. I know this doesn't really keep with having a Spec motor mentality, but does having one motor that produces 50% more Rpms than the other keep with it?

Now... I know there is 2 generations of this motor out there, and it would appear that I have recieved the early version (no vents) even though I just ordered it a little while ago. I want to know how many older versions are out there and who decides who gets what?

I have seen pinwc's latest post of the data he collected, and it would seem that all of his motors are cranking out a decent average of RPMs. So what happened here? Did he get all of the newer versions?

I've just read another post on fried fets too... not feeling all too cheery about seeing these posts pop up and the Season didn't even really start yet.

mk2kompressor
2007.07.10, 01:04 PM
i should be breaking 15 of these in at our next meet(22nd)the judge(s)will be there the whole time,it would be good if we could sort out any duds and maybe mark the tab on the cans once closed?
apart from the timing issues found in another thread,the spacer thing should be an easyish fix

arch2b
2007.07.10, 01:05 PM
Now I just removed the pinion side shim from the dud motor and the Rpms seemed to come up fine now. But... I just made a Spec motor un-usable.

Could I, as a judge, be allowed to do the same to other Spec motors for my club members, and we could somehow get a vote on this being an allowable modification? I'm thinking worst-case scenario here, but if it's done under judge's supervision, why not. I know this doesn't really keep with having a Spec motor mentality, but does having one motor that produces 50% more Rpms than the other keep with it?

Now... I know there is 2 generations of this motor out there, and it would appear that I have recieved the early version (no vents) even though I just ordered it a little while ago. I want to know how many older versions are out there and who decides who gets what?

I have seen pinwc's latest post of the data he collected, and it would seem that all of his motors are cranking out a decent average of RPMs. So what happened here? Did he get all of the newer versions?

I've just read another post on fried fets too... not feeling all too cheery about seeing these posts pop up and the Season didn't even really start yet.
please bring this up in the judges forum :)

there are equally plasuible reasons for explaining the fried fets other than the motor being the cause. one was an obvious event in the making and the others could just as easily be due to fet installation issues. the fact that several clubs have run test races with these and none of them have reported fried fets is reassuring.