View Full Version : Is it posible to organize other series, for clubs

2007.08.31, 04:28 PM
Hi, one that many clubs with 4 Ls, can participate, maybe to start on january to prepare on. To run tracks like the Regionals from PN or Atomic....

2007.08.31, 04:50 PM
there are threads on this already. imx in particular has been the major champion for a parallel series for atleast 3 wide l's.

there is also ongoing discussion about creating a series that shadows events like the pn world cup.

fyi, there is also a push for an f1 categorey

2007.08.31, 07:42 PM
We'd be willing, and I'm certain Stafford UK would be as well. We have discussed in the past, but never really came together on it. I would like to suggest a simple set of rules for 3 classes of racers, F1, Stock F1, Mod. I'll dig around and see if I can find that old thread... I think I had some rules on there.

2007.08.31, 07:51 PM
Here's the track we used for our last one...



The more I think about it... I keep getting this idea that there might be a more interesting way to gain attendance to these events, and not put so much emphasis on what layouts, but more on what classes.

I'll explain... Brian will love this. ;)

What if we had a spot where any track could conform to a large event being run elsewhere on their own? Example... DCGTG is going to be holding an endurance race very soon... what if they could post the layout and event rules on the HFAY site, in a standardized fashion? We could do this for almost any large track event we hold. Not only that, but other outside HFAY events as well. We could re-produce tracks from all over to see how we stack up to anyone. If the layout of Atomic World Cup race was posted before the event was held, you could set it up and run right with them.

So basically... any event could be duplicated if the club desires to do it.

BUT... (thinking out loud here)

It would probably be easier to just have standard rules to our own classes, and if a club feels like setting up a track, and conforming to those standard rules... they can schedule when they are going to run that race on HFAY's site, and other clubs could post that they are going to participate.

All of these events will just be for fun... no points, just run and compare!

I would suggest the following rules for simplicity reasons:

Stock class

Any MR01, MR015, MR02, MA010 chassis
Stock 3010 or 3004 ESC (no AD Bands)
Rubber tires
AAA nimh batteries
Any motor
Any Autoscale body only

F1 Class

Kyosho F1 chassis only
Stock 3010 or 3004 ESC (no AD Bands)
Rubber tires
AAA nimh batteries
Any motor
Any Autoscale body only

Mod Class

Rubber tires
AAA nimh batteries
Autoscales, PN or Atomic Pan car bodies only
Rest is anything goes!

I guess I should have put this on the Judges forum first, but this would seem to be as good a place as any to gauge interest from other racers.

Hope to hear some feedback on this!

2007.08.31, 10:06 PM
Well, if you read the original post, it mentions a different series. Hard to have a race series without points. What would be the point without them? If you ever form a series, and wish to have plenty of participants interested, I would strongly suggest like some of you already did, make a simple set of rules that include race drops ;) .

You could make the series a lot more fun if you focus on getting different car categories competing on same layouts. You can all compete against each other and see who can be the fastest instead of focusing on how committed are you in the series. Make it a lot more fun! :cool:

2007.08.31, 10:07 PM
i'm all for all 3 classes but especially f1. we all have mod cars in dc so it would be nice to use all of our cars in class style racing though.

you have my vote for certain :)

2007.08.31, 11:26 PM
I would like to see an open 3 L series, a lot of places have aquired larger space to race the last few years... should be at least 6 clubs that can do it...

If it gets opened up to were my Mix would be allowed (open class etc) then I guess I will have to hurry things up eh?

2007.08.31, 11:59 PM
We've discussed a large layout point series before, but it seemed that many clubs just wouldn't have the time with their current schedules. But if more clubs are for it now...maybe it would work.

So... Short and Long track series in HFAY... or is that too much?

I know the initial concept put us at 2 Wide "L"s for affordability and club space reasons... but maybe some would make the jump? The 2 track system is working though.

2007.09.28, 06:06 PM
Or maybe to start something to see how many clubs can do it, maybe witout points at the begining, it will be interesting to see other racers times on a same track...

2007.09.30, 08:17 AM
IMX and myself have talked about this at length. I don't remember a long track series with points discussed but rather a sort of cyber one day gtg without the travel for clubs to race each other . No points or prizes no arguing over anything. I believe Arch will confirm that this format for our gtgs have worked out well in the past.

The hosting club can set the layout and basically set the the stock and F1 must have a maximum of 3010 fets and any motor may used that will not blow up the board. Mod class is anything goes. Rubber tires and Autoscale bodies required. Chassis may be any 1/28 scale.

We run this way at all our gtgs and every club race. We have great racing and no problems. No arguing over rules and maximum fun.

2007.09.30, 08:27 AM
gasman, is spot on :) we've done this and it works well

2007.10.05, 09:49 AM
Our AZGT series is ending at the end of October. We are talking about running Stock, AWD, and F1. No mod races here yet, but we could always have that class also..

Our rules already allow any motor that doesn't fry a 3010 fet. And all of the other rules look good. I was thinking about running this as a six race series in one direction every other month. This would give the clubs more time to schedule a big race and get it run..

I guess the most important part is what clubs would be willing to run such an event? How much track everyone has? How much space to set it up (9x23 tiles looks like a good size)? So we can design tracks that work for everyone..

I would love to see the tracks with wide radius and blanks for some more diverse designs, but lets hear from the other clubs about what track tiles they have, space for setup, time and desire to do this, and what everyone thinks about doing this.

We could start in January to give everyone some time to get things in order..

2007.10.05, 10:45 AM
I would like to do it, but we would need some sort of official format. I would need to add the tracks, a website section for it. then the whole tracking, sorting and posting times.

if there isn't a set schedule it becomes a real burden on the little free time I have for managing it.

as far as racing goes. the Salt Lake Mini-Z club would love to participate and we have more than enought track to setup just about any track.

here is my current list of tracks

5 wide L's
1 nascar Oval track
2 45* kits
1 wide expansion kit
6 wide inside corners

2007.10.05, 11:10 AM

I would be glad to help anyway that I can. I was thinking about modifying the AZGT schedule and run every other month. I sent an email to DW about this also, I think he can help formulate a good set of guidlines for all the clubs to follow. You can see his Sporting Regulations for our different classes in the Mini-AZ forum.. We currently have them for Stock, AWD, and F1.

I can always post these results to my website if you wish, or tabulate all the scores and send you a nice layout to post on HFAY.. I just know we have been talking about a bigtrack series and would like to make it a reality.. Not that the small tracks aren't fun..

I guess I get bored racing for second place in our AZGT series with Brad winning every event this year.. At least I could race for second against a much larger field.. :} I did not beat him in any single race this year HFAY or AZGT. He even took his car off the track for a steering problem in one event and came back to get his laps back and beat me, and most everyone else in the World..

Thanks for bringing this format to Mini-Zs. I know it is a thankless job, but it has really made it alot of fun for everyone.

2007.10.05, 12:11 PM
in all fairness, ed has been pushing for this for a LONG time. i'm sure plenty of useful information can already be found in existing threads.

2007.10.05, 02:23 PM
I believe I have read all of the other info about the big track races, but would love to hear from ED and try to get DOW back into a series of racing..

I know he has said many times that his club want to run the larger tracks, so this might get more clubs interested.
I even talked to King at RC Kenon about having them do some HFAY races at their new facility..

2007.10.05, 04:03 PM
Not too sure of it yet... I'm basically thinking of posting a basic layout and basic rules on our site... and inviting all to attend. Would like to keep it in the HFAY family though, but not excluding non-HFAY clubs though either. Very interested though, just waiting out a few other issues.

2007.10.05, 04:30 PM
ED, Robin,

if we could come up with a format that I could post on the HFAY site its doable.

I would suggest setting up a tracks required? 4 wide L's or similar.
time table to run the event. maybe 1 every 3 months (4 a year)
times submitted in the same HFAY format.

this would be very easy for me to trac and post times to.

It would be a nice to have the times shown on the HFAY site. I can do the track drawings of your designs to post.

Dusty Weasle
2007.10.05, 08:53 PM
As the designer and administrator of Mini-AZ's three series (AZGT, F1, Timex ATM), let me jump in here. I floated the idea last week to Mini-AZ about inviting other clubs to join our local series. I was thinking of them joining our series as-designed (more or less) to expand our competition base.

If we do this as the large track spin-off of OLPS, I'm sure Mini-AZ would be happy to join in however those series are structured. You're welcome to use or modify my Sporting Regulations that are posted in the Phoenix sub-forum (I imagine though it would just follow the OLPS rules). There's also Imx's excellent suggestion on Post #4.

If we do this as a Mini-AZ event, we would be very happy to have other clubs join us in our local series. But I need to set out some guidelines for the series.

These would be Mini-AZ events. I would continue to design and administer the Sporting Regulations. Comments and suggestions are welcome, but we won't be doing the voting thing that as become divisive in OLPS. Whatever the Sporting Regs are, that's what they are (Remember people, little toy cars).

I am very near to getting Mini-AZ.com back up and running (one Auth Code away), and will post results/news/updates there as the series hub.

The Seasons are specified at 6 months long with different qualifying and race formats. This provides variety beyond just chassis. The AZGT is a Sports Car combination of Sprint and Endurance racing. F1 is a 1/2 length @1:24 scale version of the real thing, and the ATM is AWD sprint. These series were not designed to grow participation, they are for serious competition.
“Full throttle, nothing less”
--- Colin McRae

Like the OLPS, we'd preselect six layouts and have one month to run whatever series you choose to compete in. The designs would have to fit whatever space we all have in common and would be around 4L plus a few wide apex and 45's in nature. Designs welcome from everyone.

Points and Drops
The AZGT uses various point scales that were set up for a single club. With the exception of F1 (being FIA real), the scale would be adjusted for more drivers.

Mini-AZ has always run with no drops, but going international we'll probably have to add the 2 drop rule, sadly even for F1.

Trophies and Costs
Free. You've already dumped you're retirement fund into this sport. I will provide trophies (or trophy-like foods) to the top three podium positions at the end of the championships. If sponsors want to jump in however, welcome to the party!

Club Champions would be recognized using averaging like OLPS. No prizes though. Bragging is priceless.

The Sporting Regulations for the three series can be found here (plus tracks and pictures from our events):
AZGT: http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23900&page=1&pp=15 (PDF in Post #2, “Rules06” version)
F1: http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25502 (PDF in Post #1, “Rules05”)
ATM: http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26078 (PDF in Post #1, “Rules03”)

Don't be alarmed at their content. They are written in legalese to be very precise and cover any eventuality so Race Directors don't have to make up rulings on the fly. On a typical race day you would only use a small portion of the Regs.

Note: The F1 and ATM are not final. AZGT IV is not posted yet, but will be largely unchanged.
AZGT: If we do this with other clubs, it will likely also be single direction, so half as many races.
F1: Ignore the weather rule, the tyre requirement is too difficult to come by so I'm dropping it.
ATM: Ignore the roof height and wheel base limits. Body homologation will be “Any 2dr/4dr Sedan or Hatchback”. 2dr Sedan is defined as a B-Pillar that represents a back seat.
Ex: The Murcielago would have an engine there, so it is not legal. The idea is to not allow the low, flat super-cars.

I'll also free up the between segment times. Clubs can run multiple series in whatever sequence they choose.

Attached below is Mini-AZ's available floor space. It's big, but has some hardware restraints confining shape. Red represents "gettin' tight to the wall" areas. The little box things are movable drivers stands. The big wedge things are car lifts, the arms are movable to a degree.

Vote Dusty '08
“You'll like my reign of terror”

2007.10.06, 05:05 PM
Our club, Flip Side, would also like to join in on some big track fun. I know for certain we could do an event every few months. More frequent that than and I need to discuss with my club further as it could impact other racing we are doing.

It would be nice if HFAY OLPS provided something like this.

2009.07.21, 12:21 PM
with the recent desire to expand HFAY to support larger tracks, i thought it best to bring this back up vs. starting the conversation over from scratch. please review the past comments and lets progress from here :) the idea is not a new one but interest surges from time to time and i'd like to capitalize on it;)

i would love to see a 3 wide l series run concurrently with the 2 wide l series. i don't see why they could not co-exist nor that without some creative thinking, share common layouts.

it would take some serious work on our club's part to get into it due to space limitations only, we have the track, but i still offer our support for it :)

2009.07.21, 01:13 PM
Wow... we've come a long way.

Ok... let's try this on for size. 6 BTE sized layouts with current BTE rules for Stock, Mod & F1, and 1 full year to complete the entire BTE Point Series.

1st track open Jan/Feb, results in by March 1st...

2nd track open Mar/Apr, results in by May 1st...



I suggest this because of time constraints and also... some actual hardcore racing shops want to get in on it, but they usually have their own series to run. But once every other month they could share results with the world.

But honestly, my reasons for disliking my own idea here is what pressure it will put on Brian to get all the results in if something like this is combined with the current 2WL series.. Also... we are just starting to see other new overseas clubs come on board and I'd hate to cut them out of it if they have the capability to run it.

Let's look at it this way... and this is just hypothetical...
What if this BTE was our ONLY Online Point Series?... We would be growing the time span for the OLPS along with the track size. But realistically... might be easier on Brian and many clubs out there to just have just one type of series. I know many of the clubs participating currently have the track and the space to do a 3WL series, but do they want to give up the current 2WL series?

We here at DOW are quite honestly... burned out (except for Larry! :D). We get together and beat around the cars once in a while, but we certainly don't run two times a week like we used to. For us "older" guys (we've been racing as a club since 2004), it might work out better with a BTE Series. And as far as some of the major shops getting involved, it really shouldn't be a big deal to thrown down a BTE layout once every 2 months.

Either way... I see this thread now as a big jump on a possible major modification as to what we do with HFAY in January. Let's hear some ideas fly...

2009.07.21, 02:48 PM
I think 6 events a year is perfect to get started with a spin-off. I would be willing to donate my time to collect, talley, and enter the data from each club to keep the burden off of Brian.

If it turned into the replacement for the 2L series, I think it should be 10 events a year, with two off months.

2009.07.21, 04:11 PM
I think 6 events a year is perfect to get started with a spin-off. I would be willing to donate my time to collect, talley, and enter the data from each club to keep the burden off of Brian.

If it turned into the replacement for the 2L series, I think it should be 10 events a year, with two off months.

we should talk about just modifying the 2WL series and see what clubs that are currently competing in it would be interested in changing it to a 3WL series for season 9.

I know our club would prefer to run the 3WL, We wouldn't have time to run both however. But to me the larger tracks are just more fun to drive, and the slower cars have less of an effect on your race because you are lapping them less often.

then for the BTE Races we could go with a 4WL or larger setup and incorporate the 45° track and the expansions.

I'd also like to see an open class run, I'd love to be able to use my pan car more often, especially on a much larger track where the speed can but utilized.

2009.07.21, 04:39 PM
Now here's the real sucky part...

I only have the room available as the last two layouts used for the last two BTEs*, I can't join a 4WL Series (as much as I would love to) so I think it's going to fall as to where the most clubs can participate...

2WL Series

3WL Series

4WL Series

Also... I think we need to keep it down to just one series for HFAY to keep the sanity levels tolerable.

If it were all my decision I'd run a full 10 month season, utilize 10 3WL tracks with 1 Wide inside turn kit, Same tech regs as the last BTE, run 8 minutes mains, both directions on each layout. Fortunately though... I don't run the show! :)

Now... where here do we pick up the most clubs? Well, if it's based on room... we know the 2WL wins of course but if we go by the sheer motivation to run the layouts chosen, I'd venture to say that it's the 4WL as shown by the obvious interest in all of this. But... like just I said, 4WL is going to cut some clubs out. Also... I'm sure we all have heard that the 2WL is too small for some.

So... Will the 3WL Series be the porridge Goldilocks will choose? Sounds like we are in need of either a poll on the public threads or an internal "club only" vote.

*There's also that damn pole holding up my first floor too... wish I could cut it out!

We've got time to get this right, but I wouldn't drag your fingers across the keyboard... get the ideas going!

2009.07.21, 06:06 PM
^ With your basment configuration, can you go 8 tiles wide for the full length of the latest BT layout? If I remember correctly, youve just got to have an outside corner in the right spot around the pole, but I dont remember what was at the other end.....Im going to look after I hit submit :D

I think another step, besides setting an 'L' limit, would be setting the actual tile by tile constraints.

Weve got 6 'L's, but our track room is long and narrow. We can stretch to 9 tiles wide, but can go 22 or so in the other direction. Weve also got the 45 kit, a wide radius kit, but no blank tiles.

Also, Ive mentioned this to a couple of our regulars, and if this thing flies with atleast 3'L's, and size constraints that work for our room, we are in :D

As far as scheduling, I like Eds idea of running it as a 10 month schedule with 20 races. But, it probably should be divided into two seasons like the current set up to let clubs get in or out at two times a year. Youd be unlikely to get any new clubs to jump in in June or July, if they are going to be down half a season worth of points.

2009.07.21, 07:04 PM
why can't we just add a 3w l series to run concurrently with hfay? clubs pick and choose which series they register for and or participate in? kinda like hfay ala cart shopping. you pick what track size, classes you want to register for and submit times accordingly.

once the results submission issue is resolved. it's really more forum time updating posts and updating the hfay website.

i didn't read all the way into whatever the bte comments were but could we morph the hfay bte into the 4w l events.

Dusty Weasle
2009.07.22, 02:57 AM
We should not create a second series as we'd be reducing the field in each (look how well that worked out for IRL/Champ Car).

The goal of the 2L track was for commonality of space and availability (cost) of tiles. But over the years I think all the clubs have acquired sufficient track and good locations. Would expanding to a 3L track in a DOW size space affect any clubs? (Mini-AZ should be ok)

Mini-AZ would be happy to run a larger layout version of OLPS. We don't have time to run two series though (2L and 3L). In practical terms, and I believe this is true for many clubs, we can only meet twice per month (OLPS one weekend, and local series on the other weekend). Real life, friends, family, dog... demand the other two weekends and then some.

Format is also a concern. Our OLPS race day is always 8-10 hours! In fact this last weekend we switched to only single round Qualifying to save time (we used to have two Heats of Qualifying). If we add in an Open Class, we'd have to do away with the CW/CCW and just race a single direction. This would be fine, but it would in effect cut the number of races in half. If we did go with single direction racing, the rounds could be 10min like BTE.

A five month series is the way to go. Not too long, not too short, with a break in between seasons.

2009.07.22, 07:37 AM
yes, there are clubs that would be affected. dc is one of them. if hfay discontinued 2w l and moved to 3w l, were forced out. if push comes to shove, we can find space on a limited basis but certainly not for an entire season. we already drive up to dow for the big track events.
i don't think we should move away from our roots and discard all the garage/basement clubs that were the foundation of hfay to begin with. simply add choice to those whom have been lucky enough to expand.

yes, the field will be reduced, but that is already happening anyway as clubs tire of the 2w l limitation. check the registered list for s8, it was strikingly small as of yesterday, half a month into s8. s7 had 11 racer clubs. as of today, s8 has 6 racer clubs.

i'm all for larger tracks, believe me. i want others to have the choice despite the limitations our club face. it's never really been about the tile cost, it was always space. the cost of a track is negligible compared to space costs.

dc could not run more than 2 classes in any given month without the ability to choose additional classes to participate in. we run hfay once a month currently and it takes an entire day. we use the 2nd race day for club stuff where we get to have less stressed fun.

maybe hfay adds sponsored season classes such as an trp renault class for a single season on a selected track size/layouts approved by hfay (2w l, 3w l, or 4w l). costs for managing the season/prizes could then be picked up by the sponsor. pn could choose to sponsor a pn pan car season, same for atomic.

2009.07.22, 10:26 AM
Arch... can't you guys run a 3WL outside of Hobbyworks? (out in the mall area?)

Oh. and here's where we are at as far as room concerning DOW. We can go one more tile wider as long as we go around the pole and avoid the "nook" on the left. BUT... we will have next to nowhere to stand (there is a staircase at the top to the right of the pole). It's possible, but would be tough to do.

As far as time to get the classes in... it all comes with practice. This last time we started around 1:00pm, ran 2 heats of each classs and the mains and finished up around 7ish if I recall correctly. We squeezed in group lunch somewhere there too. Just have to get everyone called and ready to go and stay on top of them to be ready.

2009.07.22, 10:45 AM
that requires submitting a request 2 weeks in advance, which we are not gauranteed to receive permission. the food joint next door does not like the added crowds we produce (doesn't make sense i know). lets put it this way, i would not bank on this being an available option. it works once in awhile when we do fun runs for club events but i would not be willing to stake an entire HFAY season on it.

2009.07.22, 12:13 PM
Ed, I think it should be based on what you can accomodate comfprtably. We could definitely cram more track in our room, but it wouldnt be comfortable, and visibility would be otugh on every one. I wouldnt want it to be an event where some folks didnt want to participate because of where they had to stand, or because they cant get a spot that they can see well from.

Arch, I think it would be totally unfair to eliminate the current series without FULL support from the clubs that have been holding HFAY together. You guys have been participating in the series for as long as Ive been coming to MZR, and it would be silly for you to get the boot because the size went up to something you couldnt accomodate. It just wouldnt be right.......

2009.07.22, 12:46 PM
Well... I sure as heck don't want to be cutting anyone out either! I also don't like the fact that my space limitations drive any kind of track design for any series whatsoever!

To be honest... it sounds like a poll is in order, but not right now. We should wait to hear more arguments and points from others before we even think of posting any kind of poll questions. Maybe we need to have a poll on which questions should be included in the polls?

I'll type up some things I think should be relevant questions in regards to all of this and try to get them on this thread a little later today.

2009.07.22, 12:53 PM
Maybe we need to have a poll on which questions should be included in the polls?

This statement pretty mcuh sums up how I feel about it at this point :D

I think more input, from more parties is important. There are only a few clubs worth of input here. The existing clubs need to some forth with how they feel about the situation.

2009.07.22, 01:12 PM
So.... maybe a new thread in the Judges forum addressing this stuff, or just beat this one like a dead horse until we're ready to post some Judge polls?

2009.07.22, 06:48 PM
go ahead and post your summary to the judges forum. keep in mind that we never got a majority of judges to participate in anything. it require active membership which unfortunately is not a commitment some are willing to make.

2009.07.22, 07:30 PM
I know our club is wiling to do either, we have the room formthe 3WL tracks, but that would also rule out my basement as our alternate.

the warehouse we race in has plenty of room, most of the time, but when they get in larger shipments our space gets tight.

I know everyone would love the larger track, but we are willing to do either.

My problem with splitting the series it that it will decrease the # of driver (possibly), but it may also have an averse affect of adding additional clubs without cutting anyone out. this is also a positive.

I've always looked at HFAY as a way to have fun, compare times with other to gauge my improvement. I know it's not exactly on the same level as being at the same location and racing under the same variables but it's the best we can do.

2009.07.22, 08:46 PM
were already seeing a drop... 11 clubs to 6, that is a significant drop in drivers.

2009.07.22, 09:07 PM
were already seeing a drop... 11 clubs to 6, that is a significant drop in drivers.

True, but most of those clubs didn't just drop HFAY, they dropped Mini-Z's and no longer race.

We did pick up a few new clubs this season. One from Atlanta and one from Sweden.

Dusty Weasle
2009.07.23, 02:08 AM
Oh, I thought DOW had the smallest space. Ok then, we definitely should not switch to something that excludes core clubs. I'd say stick with 2L as-is then. It's easier to setup and tear down anyway (especially in this 115deg heat).

2009.07.23, 07:16 AM
by adding a class though, do you estimate loosing more than 5 clubs total, including whatever clubs switch to the 3/4w l series? were talking a min. 15 drivers we've lost this season alone.
i'd trade off smaller series participation for great hfay participation meaning i'd rather see us back up to 11 clubs spread in 2 series than 1 series drop from 11 down to 6 clubs.

2009.07.23, 09:43 AM
This would take a lot of co-ordinating, and we'd need to do it at a time good for everyone, but how about a world event live, where we all race on the same day at the same time. We'd obviously need an internet connection, but that's done easy enough, think we'd just need the right software to link all the clubs together at once.

2009.07.23, 09:56 AM
interesting idea, it's been mentioned before.

how this could fit in to a new format: existing bte layouts become new larger track series opening up the bte to become something even grander in scale such as this idea.

2009.07.23, 10:52 AM
if hfay points series tracks were the same size as the bte Matsushimas would definitely be interested in contesting the series
esp if using 1/28th scale rules were a possibility...;)

2009.07.23, 04:45 PM
Well... was going to get a bunch of questions together but really, if we are going to lose clubs... maybe it all good the way it is.

3WL is still going to happen with the BTEs... which is why we started it in the first place. As we all know, 2WL is still fun but it just doesn't seem to hold the glamour of the larger tracks. I think 2WL racing is awesome when you're just into an almost meditative state when racing... I'm not sure if many others who haven't done it realize how close corners get cut and how lines are just so concentrated on. It's awesome to watch 3 or 4 closely matched racers dodge lap for lap on a small track, and also to watch someone make up a 4 or 5 lap deficit to take a win. Different kind of glamour I guess.

I only suggested the 3WL because I saw the club count dropping, but I understand that some clubs just get smaller and fade out, or move onto another type of racing. So maybe the 2WL system stays put... for now?

Personally, I think actual serious race clubs would have some serious fun on the normal 2WL layouts... but it's not easy to get some racers to see what 2WL is all about.

2009.07.23, 05:58 PM
Ed, I would not be concerned about loosing clubs if we run both series concurrent. I actually think you will see club counts rise as a result of adding a larger series. The difference will be the total will be spread vs concentrated.

I just don't follow the logic of it being one or the other, not both.

Facts are clear we are loosing clubs with just one series. I think as long as we stick to an all or nothing attitude it will be a constant struggle to keep the club count up.

2009.07.27, 02:04 AM
You might be right there... as long as we have the scoring man-power to take care of the extra results, and Brian is looking for help.

How's that going Brian? Any hirees yet? :o

2009.07.27, 03:52 PM
You might be right there... as long as we have the scoring man-power to take care of the extra results, and Brian is looking for help.

How's that going Brian? Any hirees yet? :o

Mini-Z and I will be talking soon about getting this program developed to sort and score.

Might have it up and running for next months times. We'll see.