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Dusty Weasle
2007.09.06, 03:17 AM
Starting in November, Mini-AZ will be launching two new racing series. One of these is the:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/DustyWeasle/Mini-AZ/ATM%20Series/ATM_RulesLogo01.jpg

The Timex All Wheel Drive Touring Masters will join Formula 1 and AZGT in our series lineup. (Sporting Regulations attached below)

This will be an AWD only class using the higher profile sedans and hatchbacks that are otherwise neglected. Maximum wheelbase is 94mm and minimum roof height is 42mm. Minimum weight is 190g. 'Any non-FET upgrade' motor rule.

Each race will consist of three Stages, two 5min and one 15min. The top six drivers score points (I doubt we'll have more than six in the first season). More points scored in the longer Stage 3. Bonus points for fast lap and lap leaders.

I'm sure some of you will be pleased there are no adjustment or battery restrictions between races as in the AZGT.

To accommodate the extra racing, AZGT Season IV will switch to single direction racing along with the other two, so we should be able to run all three race classes in one day. And if someone doesn't have a particular class of car, they're not left out for too long (and we score some corner marshals).

The typical schedule will look something like this:

10:00 Track Setup and Open Session
11:00 AZGT Practice
11:30 AZGT Qualifying
12:00 AZGT Race (longer on Le Mans day)
12:30 F1 Practice
1:00 F1 Qualifying
1:30 F1 Race (depends on pace, but should be 35-45min)
2:30 ATM Practice/Qualifying
3:00 ATM Race
3:30 Tear Down and Cleanup

The schedule actually fits into the same time frame we've been using. I was very impressed how much we were able to accomplish during that compressed and hot day in August, Joe even did his 1:1 brakes between races! So I think we'll be able to run all three events without difficulty, and we get to run more of our cars as well. :cool:

NOTE: The updated Sporting Regulations are down on Post #14.

mini-z
2007.09.06, 10:30 AM
What a cool class DW! :)

jbevins
2007.09.06, 04:32 PM
why is it that all the cool races are always out of state for me??? that sucks, that really sounds like something that I would have alot of fun in! :)

saiyan
2007.09.07, 01:19 AM
I would have to say that i will be all over this class. I don't have a fast motor for my AWD, but i can't wait to race my AWD :cool: Now i really need to get a nice body for it. ;)

Hood
2007.09.13, 09:20 PM
The HFAY motor is more than enough in almost all races.. I bought one at the beginning of the season, and it hasn't been out of my car. I have several practice days and six full racedays on my HFAY motor and it still is very fast..

I would like to see a revised schedule four our racedays, and would hate to lose the CC version of AZGT. It has been a fun series and I would like to keep it intact and add the new classes. Maybe we can all talk about this on Saturday and see what everyone wants.. I am worried that people will leave before the end, leaving a couple of us to do all the work. I know that some people will not buy a F1 or AWD it would be nice for all of the cars to run all day long.. Here is my idea for a revised schedule, let me know what you think.

10:00 Track Setup and Open Session
11:00 AZGT Clockwise Practice
11:30 AZGT Clockwise Qualifying
12:00 AZGT Clockwise Race (longer on Le Mans day)
1:00 ATM Clockwise Practice
1:20 AZGT Counter-Clockwise Practice
1:40 F1 Clockwise Practice
2:00 Qualifying (ATM, AZGT, and F1)
3:00 Racing (ATM, AZGT, and F1)
4:00 Teardown and Cleanup

JOE KROSNER
2007.09.13, 09:26 PM
Again DW you post rules of what the club is going to run without the views of rest of the members having a say. I have held back my response but can no longer hold my tounge. We are trying to bring new members but when YOU constantly change the RULES or CLASSES there is NO consinstancy of what we will be running. Please again try to check with all the regulars before stating this is what we will be running. We at one time ALL agreed to have the option day for multiple classes REMEMBER that or did YOU forget. I do still enjoy mini-z way more than any other class in over 20 years of racing just do not ruin what YOU have worked for CLUB MEMBERSHIP all be it free and no charge for racing just check with everybody prior to saying this is it.

Joe Krosner

Dusty Weasle
2007.09.14, 02:56 AM
I'd rather keep the dual direction AZGT as well, it just seemed easiest to fit it all in this way. Its still a very full day of racing.

The order gets a bit jumbled up there at the end. I think everyone would be turned around by quickly switching class and direction so much. Plus you'd be scrambling to switch the AMB back and forth between series.

But I see where you're going with it. How about this layout? The AZGT is the 'marque' event bookending the day, with the ATM and F1 in the middle. Keeping both AZGT directions plus two new races would push our day out another hour or more though. Getting' a bit long. We could recover about an hour though If we change AZGT Qualifying to be more like the other two instead of solo laps.

10:00 Track Setup and Open Session
11:00 AZGT CW Practice
11:30 AZGT CW Qualifying
12:00 AZGT CW Race
12:30 ATM Practice/Qualifying
1:00 ATM Race
1:30 F1 Practice/Qualifying (Q takes about 5min)
2:00 F1 Race
3:00 AZGT CCW Practice
3:30 AZGT CCW Qualifying
4:00 AZGT CCW Race
4:30 Tear Down and Cleanup

We had discussed an alternative where the full AZGT would be run every month and other series would alternate running with it every-other-month (AZGT/F1, AZGT/ATM). This would make the other series run about a year though for only six events, but at least the day would be more manageable.


Ah, Joe, Mr. Sunshine. Yep, that's your nickname now. Mr. Sunshine. Everyone, altogether now- “Hi Mr. Sunshine”.

We dropped the Fun Run day in favor of just getting on with the series, remember? But if you have something special in mind we can run a Fun Run day. There are some Mod Class cars in the group, maybe they'd like to run those.

What classes or rules changed? The AZGT is what it always was. I did consult the members for the new stuff. I created the F1 and ATM because people wanted to run their other chassis. I hear complaining about the battery/adjustment rule, so I left it out of the ATM. The ATM is also based on what Brad outlined rather than on DTM or BTCC. The points system is a little different, but I went with the idea of extra bonuses.

You also stated very clearly you have no interest in running an AWD class, so there wasn't much more to ask you about what kind of AWD race you'd want to run. Guess you won't win a Timex watch now.

YBSLOW
2007.09.14, 12:08 PM
As always when you have 5 racers you will have 5 opinions. Personnally I think it is dumb to race both directions. The only place I ever had to do that was Hobbyclown. Yes Hobbyclown and anything that reminds me of that I do not usually like. I will run whatever you guys want but prefer multiple classes so I get a more diversified practice. My MR02 car never changes anything setip wise in over a year and has become somewhat boring because of it. I would really like a chance to run the other 3 cars I own (F1,AWD and Mod/open) I know Bill has all three of these as well. If we have to run a different day that is fine also but I will probably choose to run my cars that day and skip the HFAY day.

We only have 5 consistant drivers that attend all of the time and at least three of the 5 have F1 and AWD. I am sure we can figure out what is best for the majority and I believe the extra classes may encourage some new drivers. Maybe ..........Maybe not.

See everyone Saturday.
Brad

Hood
2007.09.14, 01:34 PM
I like the discussion, but sometimes it loses its way in Forum Communication. I know that Joe is not MAD OR ANGRY, but it sure comes across that way on the forum. He is more of a Loud and Blunt communicator.. :eek: I can't wait to change his name in RCScoringPro, and maybe we can talk to Brian about getting his HFAY name changed as well.. :p

Things that we should discuss in person to make sure everyone is happy..

The way our scoring software works, and what will be easiest to run the program.

Getting in all of the classes on raceday.

Keeping everyone interested from start to finish.

Starting a little earlier to give us more time.

I like the regulations and think we need something similiar for the F1s.

I would like to see more of an approved body list for the Awd cars rather than a height rule for the simplicity of teching.. I measured my F50 today and it is legal, but not exactly a touring car..

I understand the issues with running CW and CCW at the same times of day, so I purpose we run the F1 and AWD series CCW with the AZGT CCW runs. (Basically going back to my schedule post for simplicity of scoring it, but running them in the same direction to eliminate any confusion..)

How about this for a schedule?

9:30 Track Setup and Open Session
10:30 AZGT CW Practice
11:00 AZGT CW Round 1
11:15 AZGT CW Round 2
11:30 AZGT CW Race (longer on Le Mans day)
12:00 ATM CCW Practice
12:20 AZGT CCW Practice
12:40 F1 CCW Practice
1:00 Round 1 (ATM, AZGT, and F1)
1:30 Round 2 (ATM, AZGT, and F1)
2:00 ATM CCW Main
2:30 AZGT CCW Main
3:00 F1 CCW Main
3:30 Track Teardown and Clean-UP

YBSLOW
2007.09.14, 03:51 PM
I am cool with any of the proposed schedules. I think the "ATM" class body regulation should be classified as any 2dr or 4dr sedan. This would make the enzo,350z, supra, corvette, murcialago body types illegal and is also how roar designates the body rules for the sedna class. You could easily mount a murcialago a bit higher yhen stock and reach the minimum height proposed. The only body I see questinable is the Lexus SC430 and I believe technically it is a coupe and should probably not be legal for this class either.

YBSLOW
2007.09.14, 03:52 PM
P.S. I like the Mr. Sunshine thing.....................too funny!!!

Dusty Weasle
2007.09.14, 10:56 PM
Remember the 94mm maximum wheelbase, so that automatically excludes the supercars like Enzo and McLaren:
f.2. Wheelbase may be no greater than 94mm.


The body regulation currently reads:
f.10 1:28-1:24 scale Sedan, Coupe, or Hatchback.

We could say “2dr/4dr Sedan or Hatchback” if you guys like (which I almost went with originally).


f.11. Roof height must be 42mm or greater with batteries installed, measured from ground level.
The 42mm roof height is probably too low, I just didn't want to over-exclude. I originally had it set at 45mm which I would prefer. My thinking on this was to make sure these are higher COG cars. If you make a car legal by raising it, you still have the higher COG to deal with. It's up to the individual driver to balance his weight lower from there.

We'll go over more tomorrow. I wanted to get this stuff up here early so there is time to make changes and for everyone to get parts they may need.

YBSLOW
2007.09.18, 12:13 PM
Guys looking for F1 tires? Atomic mods has them back in stock Kyosho 20 rears as well as Atomic 10 rears if anybody is looking.

Dusty Weasle
2007.10.16, 02:54 AM
Here is the finalized version of the ATM Season I Sporting Regulations. The primary thing is the elimination of the height and wheelbase limits, and the classification of the 2dr/4dr Sedan or Hatchback as per our discussion.

I also reorganized the manual into sort of two parts. The first part is the specific regs for this series. The second part is the “General Regulations”. These are the regs which are common to all our series and are listed in each of the manuals.

Some of the first part is common to the three series as well, but there are differences so they needed to be in the series specific stuff.

Again, its written to be thorough so the Race Director (be it me or someone at a club elsewhere) doesn't have to make up a rule on-the-fly during a race.

The first non-points test-running of the ATM will be at DJ's on November 24th, with the series starting in January.

(Outdated PDF removed. Get the latest version farther down this thread)

Dusty Weasle
2007.11.29, 05:22 AM
Updated version of the regulations. This is Ver 1.1.

ATM
--- Qualifying eliminated
--- No battery or setup restrictions between races
Stage I
--- Grid by points or random if no points scored
--- 5min race
Stage II
--- Grid Stage I finish order
--- 5min race
Stage III
--- Grid Stage II finish order
--- 10min race