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warfile
2007.09.10, 07:46 AM
Hi,
what kind of motors do you guys run in stocks, modified and F1?

CristianTabush
2007.09.10, 09:38 AM
Hi,
what kind of motors do you guys run in stocks, modified and F1?
Stock 2wd/ F1- Speedy 05
Stock AWD- Speedy AWD
Mod 2WD- Anima
Mod AWD- Macho Modified

warfile
2007.09.10, 02:58 PM
Thaks Cristian.
I can't understand the rules of this WC(PNRacing), in the US you race with better motors than us in Portugal!!!!!
If this competition is called WORLD CUP, shouldn't the rules be equal for all?

arch2b
2007.09.10, 03:01 PM
i assume a pn representative should calrify this...

but yes, in my opnion, if this is truely a world cup event wouldn't it then be logical to assume every host had the same rules?

warfile
2007.09.10, 03:04 PM
Oh, one more thing, here we race the SPEEDY05 in all classes, WHY? Please do me a favor and ask the person who is responsable for the PNRacing WC the reason for this descrimination!

Rui Barroso
(CRP Team Driver)

warfile
2007.09.10, 03:06 PM
You're right arch2b but last year was the same thing!
Hope to meet you here for the final!

CristianTabush
2007.09.10, 06:00 PM
Main reason why has been the size of the tracks in European competition. Tecnical Racing Products had chosen the speedy05 due to the fact that tracks in Europe were much smaller than the ones in the United States. I know for a fact that a lot of your tracks are bigger now, but before they weren't. Another reason could be cost as well, the Speedy05 is a cheaper motor and entry fees should reflect this. I would take this up with your race organizers/ TRP first and then Philip at PN. He usually is a very nice guy to deal with and I am sure he was just trying to appease you guys.

warfile
2007.09.11, 07:08 AM
Main reason why has been the size of the tracks in European competition. Tecnical Racing Products had chosen the speedy05 due to the fact that tracks in Europe were much smaller than the ones in the United States. I know for a fact that a lot of your tracks are bigger now, but before they weren't. Another reason could be cost as well, the Speedy05 is a cheaper motor and entry fees should reflect this. I would take this up with your race organizers/ TRP first and then Philip at PN. He usually is a very nice guy to deal with and I am sure he was just trying to appease you guys.

1 - How much do you pay to race in PN WC?

2 - Would you consider fair running the qualyfing heats with one motor and with another at the final?

Here we race the SPEEDY05 all year and when we arrive to the Semi-final and Final, they change the motor to one you guys in the US are using and that we should have been using to if the rules were the same but....... they're not!

CristianTabush
2007.09.11, 11:46 AM
The motor has nothing to do with fairness. I run with much faster motors during practice and club races and then when it comes time to the PN Cup events I "de-tune" down to an Anima. On top of that you will have the Semi-Final to run with the Anima and get used to it, we merely have a Regional, no Semi-Final and the other regionals are thousands of miles away. So trust me, you are not in bad shape.

Our racing fees are $20.00 for stock classes and $30.00 for modified.

warfile
2007.09.12, 06:41 AM
The motor has nothing to do with fairness. I run with much faster motors during practice and club races and then when it comes time to the PN Cup events I "de-tune" down to an Anima. On top of that you will have the Semi-Final to run with the Anima and get used to it, we merely have a Regional, no Semi-Final and the other regionals are thousands of miles away. So trust me, you are not in bad shape.

Our racing fees are $20.00 for stock classes and $30.00 for modified.

Let me see if i understand your point of view... you're trying to say that one car tuned for a powerful motor is the same that a car tuned for a 05?????
You race with a T2 or Z2 right? They are practical the same as the anima or am i wrong?
I don't giva a d..... for the motors, i just want the game to be equal and fair to everybody but its clear that 1 WC = 2 sets of rules

I think that Mr. Phillip should think about this because nobody in they're perfect mind like to be mislead by participating in an event like this with 2 sets of rules, one for the US and another for EU.

Unfortunately we can't do nothig unless to speak(write in forums) because the PN representative in Spain and Portugal only see what he want to see, so are with our hands tied.....

Rui Barroso

CristianTabush
2007.09.12, 09:41 AM
The Anima is much slower than the T2 and Z2. Your club can choose to practice with whatever motor they choose to, be it the Anima, T2, 05, Z2, Chili or whatever you prefer. The fact is that the motor choice is not going to win the PN Cup for you or loose it for that matter. Your set-up needs not change much either. Slap on a softer rear plate and a harder front spring and you are ready for the Anima.

I don't disagree with the fact that you feel upset that the motor is different than elsewhere. I just don't think it is that big of a deal. One or two days of practice with the faster motor and you should be used to the new power band or the Anima.

Last year I did not race Modified Mini-Z all year, as a matter of fact our club races had pretty much disappeared 2-3 months before the world cup. When I went to the world cup, I slapped on a Macho on my AWD and TQ'd by 1/2 a lap. My fastest lap was also about 3 tenths of a second faster than Miguel's fastest lap. I messed up in the main really bad and lost a tire. Still had 2nd place at the end until on the last lap I lost a tire again and ended up 5th. I didn't loose because the motor was faster or slower, I lost because I hit the wall 2 times and lost a tire.

MikelC
2007.09.13, 04:52 PM
Correction:

- TQ'd for 2.69 secs
- best lap 0.11 secs faster


:P Kidding


Still, Anima or no Speedy or whatever, I understand What you are both saying. Sure I would prefere having regionals with anima, but still, I don't care, and take the change of motor as a chalenge.

I say, most of us are here for having fun (at least me) so give whatever motor you wanna give me, and I'll run it... Bad thing I'm a bit out of shape this year, but I'll try and practice for the time I have left...


oh, and Cristian, hope to see you and Rob in Portugal these year...

Till then... Drive slow

mikimotor
2007.09.14, 02:45 AM
Thank you Cristian and Miguel for your kindly expressing your opinion on the situation. But Im Afraid that even with your words some participants wont understand our decision. Given That from the first day we organize a race in Portugal we had a lot of complains and problems. Un fortunately a small minority of participants are in frequently disagreement with the Spanish friends next door.
The breaking point of this situation occurred in “Sevilla” last year. Evidently it was a race with a lot of participants with more than 120 cars in 2 class. This race was the most succefully in Spain.
Despite the typically delay and organizational problems. In the end after having a analysed the competition we decided to separate the Spain and Portugal groups into two semi-finals.

The decision to use the Motor Speedy 05 in this regional competitions and semi-finals was made unilaterally by TRP and Pn Racing, both sponsors of this championship in Spain and Portugal.

Therefore the companies that sponsor this event are the once who establish the regulations. This companies are perfectly aware that the regulations that are established never meet the approval of every one thus understand. That there will be individuals that will decide NOT to participate in this events.
What is not tolerated is any individual or a group of individuals should decided to complain about the motor 05 using foul and out of place language (Portuguese forum)http://www.xrt-rc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3272 wich aimed at ridiculing the organizer of event.

As you can understand this cleary jeopardises the hosting of this event in Portugal.
The only thing that this sort of behaviours will archive will be the ruining a high level championship and create a bad image of this country for the participants as well as future sponsors of the event

PS: In Spain the Speedy05 motors are the same as in Portugal and to date nobody has complained.

Alex Rubio
Technical Racing Products
Spain

arch2b
2007.09.14, 07:53 AM
thank you for the indepth explination mikimotor.

a majority of our members here are very respectful in thier behavior even if they disagree which certainly makes managing this fourm much easier than others, to you the members i say, thank you. :)

warfile
2007.09.14, 03:05 PM
Thank you Cristian and Miguel for your kindly expressing your opinion on the situation. But Im Afraid that even with your words some participants wont understand our decision. Given That from the first day we organize a race in Portugal we had a lot of complains and problems. Un fortunately a small minority of participants are in frequently disagreement with the Spanish friends next door.
The breaking point of this situation occurred in “Sevilla” last year. Evidently it was a race with a lot of participants with more than 120 cars in 2 class. This race was the most succefully in Spain.
Despite the typically delay and organizational problems. In the end after having a analysed the competition we decided to separate the Spain and Portugal groups into two semi-finals.

The decision to use the Motor Speedy 05 in this regional competitions and semi-finals was made unilaterally by TRP and Pn Racing, both sponsors of this championship in Spain and Portugal.

Therefore the companies that sponsor this event are the once who establish the regulations. This companies are perfectly aware that the regulations that are established never meet the approval of every one thus understand. That there will be individuals that will decide NOT to participate in this events.
What is not tolerated is any individual or a group of individuals should decided to complain about the motor 05 using foul and out of place language (Portuguese forum)http://www.xrt-rc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3272 wich aimed at ridiculing the organizer of event.

As you can understand this cleary jeopardises the hosting of this event in Portugal.
The only thing that this sort of behaviours will archive will be the ruining a high level championship and create a bad image of this country for the participants as well as future sponsors of the event

PS: In Spain the Speedy05 motors are the same as in Portugal and to date nobody has complained.

Alex Rubio
Technical Racing Products
Spain

The event in Sevilha.... what can i say? I was there and the organization was desastrous, in my opinion!
You write here that spanish racers dont have issues about the 05 but i know that the complaints are real, people dont talk to you, but they talk to David.... unless he lies( i guess not) when he comments these things!!!!

Bottom line is that an WORLD CUP sould have only and only one set of rules!

P.S. This is a question of rules and not about money or sponsors - for me that race at this competition as well as for other racers.

I'll be happy to explain to you in person in the Final at Almada... if you interested of course!

Rui Barroso

warfile
2007.09.15, 05:55 AM
Until now I'm talking about the rules... One Championship - 2 sets of rules.

The post that you talked in the portuguese forum about 05 (started by me) is to show everybody that the quality of this motors isn't the best, specialy this year, in every 10 motors 3 or 4 are good, the rest......
Bottom line about the 05 - If they were all equal the races should be even better that they are now. Many of Us are not happy due to the lottary that is the SPEEDY 05, if you get a "good" one its OK but if you get a bad one....
its a wast of money, period.

One more thing... If you dont race with the pilots that experience this, you shound't be speaking.


Rui Barroso

arch2b
2007.09.15, 08:01 AM
i ran in the prn regional in pa and the hand out motors for the stock class seemed to have a similar experience of getting a good one or bad one. i understand all motors have a level of variation due to manufacturing but the levels we saw or experienced were higher than one would have expected.

Gladi8or
2007.09.20, 06:57 PM
Hi to all, I'm Carlos Conceição from Portugal and I'm one of the guys who is working hard to get this party started next month. Like everyone, I have my personal opinion about all this matters, but I think this subject is to be discussed after the race unless we want to get trouble before the show. For now I just want to say to all, that no one will forget this race in Portugal. If all that has been done is the best you've seen....so come to Almada to see what we've been working to achieve. We are offering some good conditions to all, house, food & transportation and we want to have here all the best drivers in the world. Last year we went to Enfield alone, we spent a big money and we came back with lots of new friends. This year we are waiting for you with all the best we can offer, our reception and our proud in the organization of this event. A promise is the only thing I have for now, a visit is the minimum we deserve with this effort, a smile is what you are going to have when you leave Portugal...

Best regards,

The Organization
CPRMA/XRT

herman
2007.09.20, 11:08 PM
hmm... from reading... it all boils down to the rules set by the organizer, and a major factor is... the hand out motor (whatever it is) that's been given out at the event...

it seems like you have to deal with the motor that's been given to you...

is there a committee or do the organizers test each motors quality and/or performance prior to giving them to each participant? that way one can at least hope that motors will be consistent in performance, and dispel any issues that one motor may have a distinct advantage over another... (on the other hand, testing 100+ motors isn't a joke either, and even then, there still might be, (on a rare occasion) a huge variance that will produce a favorable or unfavorable motor... i.e. a motor being extremely slow (obviously unfavorable situation) or a motor being strangely and usually suspiciously fast (very favorable situation - i once had a stock motor that seemed really quick but that's another story)

if in case one does receive a bum motor, will a participant be able to exchange or purchase another motor? and how many more motors will he be able to purchase in excess of the hand out motor?

this way, it increases the participants chances of getting his hands on a better motor...

hope everything gets sorted and ironed out... :)