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View Full Version : New Versions of Autoscale bodies: Very Weak! Post comments here


NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.21, 06:51 PM
Two of the racers yesterday cracked their new mini-z bodies within minutes of their first time running it. :eek::(

In your opinion, do you feel that the bodies these days are much weaker than the early bodies? Me and a friend feel so. :confused:

Share your experiences and opinions here. Maybe if there really is a problem with the type of plastic that Kyosho is now using, we can send a petition to Kyosho to use the same old plastic from before. Thanks.

If it appears that Kyosho is using a less durable plastic than before, then I may have to cut down on collecting the newer ones, since they are much weaker. It would be pointless to collect nice bodies only to run it for a few minutes and get destroyed.

pinoyboy
2008.01.21, 07:08 PM
I don't usually buy many bodies, but I did buy the NSX Test car when it was first available. I'm not exactly sure if that counts as new:confused: Anyways, that body was strong for me, just like the other NSXs

Another newish body I tried was the Audi A4 DTM. I got it in decent condition with a chassis I bought used. Anyways, That body is very week. Splitter catches rcp rails and cracks around the front body clip.

The same can be said about the newer Mercedes CLK DTM bodies. I got it from a used chassis and I was the told the body was run, but it looked new to me.

Thats all the experience I have with bodies and I'm not really sure if they fit as being new versions. Care to share which bodies they used and on what chassis?:confused:

marc
2008.01.21, 07:37 PM
Two of the racers yesterday cracked their new mini-z bodies within minutes of their first time running it. :eek::(


If it appears that Kyosho is using a less durable plastic than before, then I may have to cut down on collecting the newer ones, since they are much weaker. It would be pointless to collect nice bodies only to run it for a few minutes and get destroyed.

I wouldn't give up collecting, I would just save the weaker bodies for shelf queen status only. Run with the stronger bodies. The newest body I have raced is the Countach, though I have not raced it amongst other cars due to the point, I dont' want to risk damaging it. I can't imagine why Kyosho would weaken the quality of their shell's, perhaps it's just the shape of the car and where it's got thinner plastic.

DJ Kyosho
2008.01.21, 08:11 PM
Hey, I was one of those racers! Well, I do feel bad that my SC430 cracked without even running down a set of batteries. $30 for a body is fine, but I hope they make it like they used to. My cerumo supra still solid and that's what I used when I started this hobby so that means hitting the walls more than I do now.

lfisminiz
2008.01.21, 08:19 PM
I agree. Some bodies, NSX, Mclaren, Vette, etc, are very good BUT some of the newer bodies, lexus, m. benz, audi dtm, 350z, etc, are VERY weak. :(

NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.21, 08:28 PM
I felt bad when you cracked it. You just got it. The other body that easily cracked was the 575GTC Maranello. It's a nice looking body, but I don't think our other friend even got to use up the whole the battery. I have a few older version bodies, and I really feel that the type of plastic they use for the painted ones are more brittle. I noticed the difference even with the nose plate.

Looking at it from a corporate perspective, if the weaker plastic is cheaper to produce, then it would be a good way to keep the cost down or even lower, at the same time, counteract the rising oil prices (plastic is a petroleum bi-product) and at the same time, maintain the selling price of $28.00 - $30.00, and generate more sales by racers getting more bodies as replacement, then this does make sense. Keep cost low, sell more.

Looking at it from an enthusiasts point of view, this is not good.

arch2b
2008.01.21, 08:53 PM
i haven't noticed this occuring any more than it did with the old school bodies like the clk for example. i little plastic/glue in the right place makes all the difference. we were doing it back in 2001-2 and it's not different now.

what is differnet however is that there are exponentially more choices now than there were in the old days so statistically your likely to see it happen more often as a result of there being soo many more bodies to choose from.

i do conceed the plastic material seems to be different. i find it more troubling that the body clips tend to fall off very easy. it may be a change in the glue, plastic, or combination of the two? all i know is mine all tend to pop off in the first day of use. right out of the box i reinforce them with added glue which seems to work so far.

for bodies like the 575gtc and 360gtc, i just add 2 small plastic tabs on either side of the nose clip receptical and it's rock solid.

herman
2008.01.21, 09:32 PM
i remember the old clk's (the first release - black weirstiener and silver d2) to be almost bulletproof... :D

well just a thought here...

at a track that i went to in japan, most of the guys, er well almost all of them run all kyosho hopped up cars... no third party parts... no modified fets... (if i'm not mistaken they run kyosho cup rules - only kyosho hop up parts allowed here folks)

so i guess and suspect, that the reduced speed (not that they were really slow) meant their bodies would be more 'durable' say compared to a car/chassis that was fully modded out (i.e. nml motor :D 3x2 stacked fets... aluminum parts all over... etc... etc... and all that jazz...)

so i guess more speed = more destruction :D

i think the unpainted bodies are a bit stronger though...

wish that kyosho would make em like they used to...

homestar21
2008.01.21, 10:00 PM
My 350 Z (super gt) front cannards and the spoiler, as well as some of the body cracked in a small crash on RCP. :( First time running it!

Gigibesi
2008.01.21, 10:00 PM
depend what body.. unless u did stupid thing toward the body (like crashing into other car head on on purpose the body will crack for sure)...

for me i just put a layer of hot glue on the front part of my nsx as my insurace policy

briankstan
2008.01.21, 10:55 PM
I cracked my 575 GTC right at the front nose clip within a week. it's a week point in that body. I have been running a 350 Z (motul pitworks) for about 1-1/2 years. I'm on my second body. I think it holds up well if you glue in the light buckets and lenes with Super Glue prior to racing it. I did reshape the from splitter to make it more RCP friendly. I haven't really noticed a difference in the plastic, I just really depends on the body. different shapes mean different weak points.

HammerZ
2008.01.22, 05:13 AM
I see a trend here. the first bodies were crude and thick like my old silver Skyline. Anything that came off those are small pieces on the front airdam and maybe the spoiler. As newer bodies came out we saw more details like the mirrors, wipers, and more complex headlight/ taillights as attached parts. And the plastic may have become thinner to make the body lighter. The later bodies just continue that trend. The unpainted white bodies are stout though.

Also as the bodies get lighter and the performance gets higher. All I can say is, it happens.

CristianTabush
2008.01.22, 07:54 AM
Hammer put it beautifully. There are certain bodies that are weaker, but they come with the benefit of being lighter. The Lexus is a very fragile body and has to be reinforced (unlesss you get the white versions). I think that the bodies have been made thinner so that they are not tanks due to the increased plastic detail (which I end up taking all off to race anyways). The older bodies had less cr@p on them, it seems like to me like the plastic was thicker, not of a different material.

We have to keep in mind, that as Herman said, these bodies are not tested at our modified speeds, even a Speedy07 speed for that matter. We are taking "toy cars" and turning them into full blown out racing machines. If we want ultimate durability in our bodies, we are eventually gonna have to switch to Lexan bodies at the expense of chassis durability. Of course with Lexan bodies, our cars will be lighter and perform MUCH better. ;)

arch2b
2008.01.22, 07:57 AM
i was referring to the ot and vodafone clk's, those tend to crack at the headlights often.

thats a very good point, the level of detail and complexity in the car designs has significantly increased over the clk, skyline, wrx, z8, etc.

HammerZ
2008.01.22, 09:29 AM
That is another point to look at as well. In the old days before RCP tracks, many of us ran on garage floors with PVC pipe rails. Sure it may scuff up the cars, but they glance off and keep going. Now with the RCP rails and the cars with canards sticking out, those cars catch the foam rails and come to a dead stop. Something that comes to a stop that fast, something has to give.

NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.22, 09:40 AM
I wonder what Kyosho has to say about this. Is there really a change in the type of plastic being used to produce A.S.? A good example would be the Made in China Chassis vs. Made in Japan Chassis...there is a noticeable difference in terms of durability. I'm almost certain that same applies to these bodies.

Btw, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to make Kyosho look bad...for I have no reason, but as a customer who loves autoscales, I can't help but wonder why the newer ones seem to crack easier.

I do see your points, guys, and they're good!

I guess moving forward, I'll have to reinforce w/ goop or glue gun to reinforce weak points. Forget about the side mirror and trims (they will come off anyway). Thanks for the input, guys.

HammerZ
2008.01.22, 10:14 AM
Over the years I am sure that many types of plastic was used, for better or worse. The original white plastic the same as the white bodies used, the colored plastic that was used in the early ASC's, may have seen most types of change. My Cooper ASC look's to be molded from a clear plastic, alot like the Iwaver bodies but with separate "glass". I think Japan or China is a moot point here, as it is very difficult to say, ok, these are Chinese made, and those are Japanese made. Unless the glosscoat bodies are Chinese, but I don't know that for sure. Even the body clips themselves we have seen, white, black, and yellowish colored ones. The yellowish ones have seem to pop off quite easy. I think it is better to pop off clean so you can glue it back on right, than it is to rip a big hunk out of the mounting area. Popped off clips are nothing new for Kyosho ASC bodies.

arch2b
2008.01.22, 10:26 AM
i can move this to the 'ask kyosho' if you wish?

NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.22, 11:10 AM
Arch, that may be a good idea. Maybe Kyosho can shed some light, whether the type of plastic being used now is different than before, and why are there noticeable differences between chassis made in Japan and made in China. Also, if there are changes, why?

Btw, the point here is about the type of plastics, not the countries where A.S. are being manufactured. In my opinion, China can produce the same quality as all other countries these days. I think it all depends on a company asking China to produce either low quality, mid-quality, or high quality.

arch2b
2008.01.22, 11:19 AM
moved :)

marc
2008.01.22, 12:05 PM
That's why I always say have two. One red Diablo body for race, and one red Diablo body for show. Fortunetly, when I raced my Diablo this weekend, it survived pretty well. Surprisingly, the only things that came off were the exaust pipes from being hit in the rear! I had thought for sure the mirrors would be first to go, but both stayed on right away. Still, I didn't care since I had another red Diablo in mint condition at home.
I really have not noticed the difference between older and newer bodies. Perhaps the newer bodies being lower, flatter, have thinner plastic in some areas making theme weaker? I dont' know,

A little off topic, but in regards to China quality, I've heard some where that there really is one company that makes all the alloy hop-up's for the Mini-Z's. But depending on how much other companies pay, depends on the quality of the part. Iwaver actually get's their alloy from 3Racing, but if I'm right I think they pay less, there fore quality is not so good. Just what I've heard.

One thing I have noticed between the older and newer bodies, is on the Toyota Altezza, the head light's alway's popped off durring racing. The newer lenses seem to stay on much better. Plus, most of the newer bodies have flexable mirriors which seem's to help.

michvin
2008.01.22, 12:07 PM
I agree. Some bodies, NSX, Mclaren, Vette, etc, are very good BUT some of the newer bodies, lexus, m. benz, audi dtm, 350z, etc, are VERY weak. :(

My old edition (when they first came out) orange mclaren cracked in half through the hood after a relatively mild crash (I still have it for nostalgic purposes :) ). I don't think the bodies became weaker - they were weak from the beginning. What happened since then though, is that the cars became faster, hence bodies are easier to break

What annoys me much more is the quality of the plastic they are using on AWD and on 015 red parts - two times the screw goes in - the hole is stripped. Sorry for off-top.

NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.22, 12:36 PM
Mich, actually, I should've titled this: Plastic Quality of all Mini-Z's. One thing I do is whenever I strip a thread in the chassis or wherever, is apply a thin coat of CA glue inside the thread. This will then create a new surface. Let it dry, then rethread by putting in the screw. Hope this helps.

michvin
2008.01.22, 12:42 PM
Mich, actually, I should've titled this: Plastic Quality of all Mini-Z's. One thing I do is whenever I strip a thread in the chassis or wherever, is apply a thin coat of CA glue inside the thread. This will then create a new surface. Let it dry, then rethread by putting in the screw. Hope this helps.Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing. I was just so annoyed when i worked on 015, installed/removed disk damper twice and both holes were stripped!:mad:
I am careful not to over tighten the screws. My blue PCB covers for 02 survive the abuse for years and sometimes i have to remove/install the disk damper 3-4 times during racing night...

NOMOTORLIMIT
2008.01.31, 09:41 PM
My conclusion: I feel that there are differences in plastics used for painted and non-painted, old and new bodies....just like the chassis.

benmlee
2008.01.31, 10:20 PM
Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing. I was just so annoyed when i worked on 015, installed/removed disk damper twice and both holes were stripped!:mad:
I am careful not to over tighten the screws. My blue PCB covers for 02 survive the abuse for years and sometimes i have to remove/install the disk damper 3-4 times during racing night...

I always turn the screw backward until it drops into the thread before starting to turn it. I have seen people just turn the screw, and sometimes, they end up with many thread starts on the hole which weakens it. These mini-z plastics seems to hold up pretty well if you are careful.

ub0211042
2008.02.01, 12:48 AM
i never ran any kyosho autoscale before, only white bodies and firelap enzo body....

never broken any of the white body so far (6 month playing). but i've broke 2 of the firelap enzo maybe caused by cleaning it too often with motor cleaner that might make it brittle.

few of my friends broke their autoscale and mostly 350z GTC 2005 and NSX but it does take a while for them to get crushed

soulstice
2008.02.01, 10:02 AM
I've never broken a major part of a body yet and I haven't seen any difference in the quality of the plastic over the years.

What I will say, is some of the older bodies seem a little thicker(like the NSX). But more than that, many of the problematic bodies here that have been mentioned are not worse quality rather it's their basic design that makes them more likely to break.

The 350Z nismo bodies and the audi both have very high wheel wells, that doesn't give much structural side support in the event of a collision when there might be some flex. I think its the basic shapes of certain bodies that make them more prone to breakage.