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View Full Version : I have a proposition.


Breeze
2008.02.06, 01:05 PM
For several months now we have been trying to get the scoring system properly set up. There does not seem to be enough time on race night to do this. I propose that in lieu of a race this week, we take the time to take care of this. We need to name the heats and classes correctly. The results are very confusing, to say the least. There is no real distinction between stock, modified or 1/18th scale as far as the print out is concerned. I would also like to measure the length of the run line of the track and enter it into the computer so we can get real MPH numbers. What do y'all think? Please chime in.

Breeze
2008.02.06, 01:12 PM
Also, this will give us an opportunity to bench race with our friend, Tommy Lane one more time. Of course, the track could still be open for practice.

mleemor60
2008.02.06, 02:56 PM
Works for me. Anything that will make the night run smoother is worth the investment in time. As it is, we need to tune the show to the time allowed. The way turn out is increasing, if we run 2 rounds of stock heats plus 1 each for mods, F-1's and the 1/18ths then add in 6 mains that accounts for nearly 90 minutes of our 2 hour show for actual racing. Not taking into consideration the time needed between races, or the proverbial "oops, my antenna just broke" "my batteries aren't ready yet" etc,etc. We need to do whatever it takes to get the show done. Jim and Vicky provide for us a terrific venue at no charge. The least we can do in return is to get them out of the store on time.

pick
2008.02.06, 05:11 PM
Not a bad idea. However, you've got a lot of people coming to race that will probably be a little upset if they don't get the opportunity this week. More than likely, not everyone has access or checks the forums. Doing it tomorrow is kind of a last minute thing. Why don't we race as planned tomorrow and discuss organizing next week. Or, some of us could maybe put aside some time on a Saturday or another day of choice. With as great as our turnout has been, I hate to see anything slow things down.

James

pedrocamp
2008.02.07, 11:47 AM
Look forward to racing... or practicing... with you guys this evening.
Pedro

Breeze
2008.02.07, 01:34 PM
Not a bad idea. However, you've got a lot of people coming to race that will probably be a little upset if they don't get the opportunity this week. More than likely, not everyone has access or checks the forums. Doing it tomorrow is kind of a last minute thing. Why don't we race as planned tomorrow and discuss organizing next week. Or, some of us could maybe put aside some time on a Saturday or another day of choice. With as great as our turnout has been, I hate to see anything slow things down.

James
You have a good point.

pooiswyked
2008.02.09, 03:12 PM
Hello guys, this is Josh Dayvault BTW.


As far as deciding on DIRECT heats/mains with CERTAIN times, that sounds great. I heard tlaks of splitting the days we actually race up, in order to compensate for the increasing bunches that are starting to come out and race. As far as improvements. This is my $.02.


1. Certain starting time. You're not there and on the board, sorry. All races must have a certain deadline to enter. Lately it seems like we get started when everyone shows up, not by time. Just my opinion. I haven't been watching the clock either, but it seems we don't get done racing until way after 9, when Jim closes at 7.

2. Definite times, I don't believe we need to change the times for every race? I mean...is that necessary? Meaning, when I say this, that we shortened the times in between races last Thursday, in order to compensate for the added cars and the added races. With a certain starting time we could eliminate this and start when we are susposed to. I mean it's a start.

3. I enjoy running my Scalpel (even though I'm still 1.8 seconds behind Todd!) every Thursday and I will be there every night as I request it off every week from work. This Thursday I'll bring some coupons for you guys for Sonic! lol


I've been meaning to do that. That's all my good points.


Oh and one more thing, in about another 2 weeks there will be one more modified mini.


p.s. can we run lexan in the modified class? lexan is now available for the mr-02. hurda ftw. -josh

Breeze
2008.02.09, 06:24 PM
You make some good points, Josh. I don't know if the shop will be willing to have more than one race night per week, though. I think that racing this past Thursday night went exceptionally well. We were done by about 9 pm. We just need to keep the racing on pace. No more waiting for some one who's batteries are not ready, (I have been a chief offender of this) or some other problem. I think allowing only one racer per race to call 1 minute, worked very well to help speed things up. So, we will have 2 minutes between the qualifiers and the mains, with the addition of a possible 1 minute call, making it 3 minutes, and then a short break before the mains. We can get all the racing completed in about 2 hours. What needs to be done to the scoring computer is only for tidying up the printouts to make it easier to read. Also the computer can seed the mains - we just need to learn how. This will also save more time. Now, about running lexan bodies in the modified class, I don't see a problem with it as long as the car weighs in @ 180g.

mleemor60
2008.02.09, 07:26 PM
What happened to Modifieds being run what you brung? For not having many rules, we sure keep coming up with ****-eyed oh by the ways. I talked with Todd Waters today at HS. My interest is in the new 2.4 cars. Not because they are spread spectrum but because they are wayyyy cool. However, they will come double stacked. Everybody will want to make it a modified cause of the stack. Never mind the fact that I believe it comes with an x-speed. Big modified, huh? If you have had the time to cruise the forums, you will see that the new car and fets in general have been a big topic of conversation from the reigning champions down to a duffer like me. Their consensus is leaning toward controling motors not fets. If you stack the fets up to the moon they will still will not show that much of a difference. We are already alowing any single layer in(sic)stock. What will happen is the same guys will win everything by trying to slant so called rules to play to their personal strengths. Scale racing has always been that way. Our ego's won't let us be happy winning the B or C main if we could slant something to keep the A for our private playground. Skill is skill, no matter how much you spend. The cream will always rise to the top. If you just quit stirring it.

You know how I feel, we've talked about it before. Nuff said!

Curmudgeon(on a good day)

pick
2008.02.10, 12:28 AM
Yes, the new 2.4g cars are very cool. However, I have to strongly disagree with you about its participation in the stock class. Just as yourself, I also own multiple cars. And a stacked fet car with a good set of batteries will deliver a lot more punch acheiving top speed more quickly than a single fet layer. If it didn't make that much of a difference then no one would be doing it. On a track like ours that has more technical sections and the entire field is seperated by less than 0.5 second per lap, this could give someone a very unfair advantage. The rules that I was given a copy of when I first started racing at HSH stated that a stacked fet board could only be ran in modified. Otherwise, I would have stacked every car I own. My point is this, not everyone will be capable of buying one of the 2.4g cars. I don't think it would be fair to change the rules just to accomodate a "new" car. As new cars are released each year will we constantly change the rules leaving all other cars obsolete? The best remedy is to apply the rules already set in place and see where the car fits. In this instance that would be the modified class. If at a later time we see that participation in the stock class is falling off because everyone is using the 2.4g car, then we could possibly change the class. At this time we have more participation in the stock class than any other. Reason being that anyone can walk in, buy a ready set and some tires, and enjoy a good race. Don't worry, I'll be buying a 2.4g car also. However, I'll do it planning to run in the modified class.
James

mleemor60
2008.02.10, 12:31 PM
James,

The boards are already out there and are interchangeable with the 02. I could care less about the 2.4 part. Iwould put a 02 board in it and run it. My and a lot of others whole concept was to not hold back technology to preserve inventory but to bridge the gap with motor rules. Power will not win a race unless all drivers are equal. I proved that in Oct when I ran my modified in stock and only finished 11 laps down on the old carpet. Todd commented that the 2.4 cars would be to big to run with the others. They have the same wheelbase as the Stock Cars(NASCAR).

It all really doesn't matter to me. I'm going to run whatever we have. I'm just trying to be the Pain in the *** that is my nature whenever I see someone come up with a way to control somebody elses ability to compete. Read back a couple of posts and see where this started. The first day I showed up at HS with an x-mod I got jumped by one of our own about being in the way and would never be able to compete with an X-mod. I hunted around and found a used 02 with a speedy 05 all plastic and 3004. The same guy said you can't race here. That car is not legal. You know as well as I what is being used at HS. When we tried to establish a board rule, it blew up because 90% of the competitors would have had to buy new boards.
That is why I made the comment about protecting turf.The very best don't fear the competition, They welcome it cause it makes them better.

Again I say the best rules are NO RULES. Everything will stay the same. You will continue to improve and I will still be in the way.

Nuff said

pooiswyked
2008.02.10, 12:48 PM
I have to say that many good points were brought up. I think the rules need to be posted somewhere again, for I was never really told them.


I plan on running Modified. I heard the only rule was that it had to have a Mini Z body. I suggested the question about Hurda earlier, and Lara provided a good point. If lexan is run there should probably be a minimum car weight. Maybe the entire mod class should have a mini weight? I see the no rules are the best rules but what about when you get past boards to speed controllers? Lexan can be run on mini z's, however after it is introduced I fear the gains are so great that everyone would have to run lexan in order to keep up. The weight diff. is unreal. The new cars are no problem to me. If there are ALOT of them, we could run another class, but that would just develop into more time burnt up.


The races went by good last Thursday.


But like I said I just want some specific rules, I plan to come in and win in an honest manner. I don't want someoen to cry out in the Modified class, because as I hear anything goes!


that mph idea was a good one. i'm all for that. and haviung another dam,n scalpel to run so the xray doesn't eat me every week. :)

kwsmith29
2008.02.11, 12:18 AM
There are copies of the rules for stock class at the hobby shop. I hope no one is wanting to change up again. The class is very competitive right now. It would be be a shame to spoil that.

As far as I know the the mod class is run whatca ya brung. The only exeception I think was no lipolys, but dont quote me.

I know one thing for sure, much more complaining about rules and were gonna get the plug pullied on us.:eek:

A far as the new cars(2.4) they would deffinatly be in the mod class.

We are short on time now, cut back to one heat this past week. I dont know where we would come up with time for anymore classes.

wade

pooiswyked
2008.02.11, 12:34 AM
I agree that with the added cars we may run out of time.


One heat sounds great. I don't care about the time epriod in between myself, justhave your stuff ready before. It's not like there haven't been 6 days before. I know this sounds "strict" but we shouldn't complain about time if we bring it upon ourselves.


Mod=run whatcha brung, fine with me, minus lipos.

stock=not gonna be in it until later, so not worried yet.


The classes should not change, the pro-stock racing is the best EVER. -josh

pooiswyked
2008.02.11, 02:37 PM
i was just inquiring because i am not running a mini z chassis in mod. i don't want to build a car that will come out and eclipse the competition the first night, only to be protested against. i'm not out buying the BEST quite yet, but give me awhile and some time to play around and maybe.


rules suggested sound great, what's left to improve? i think times are down pretty pat in my book.


as for the pro stock class, i was wondering if thart allows ANY chassis change at all, since it is possible to use stock PCB electronics on many Pro-z kits out there. i'm gonna run stock in awhile, afte ri get my current projects wrapped/set up. -josh

pick
2008.02.11, 06:13 PM
I've posted on the other thread, but thought it might be helpful to do it here also. Let's not forget that Jim and Vickie are the owners of the hobbyshop and all events that occur there. We need to all thank them regularly and try to make Thursday night as easy for them as possible. I look forward to seeing everyone Thursday.

James

For those who haven't already seen them, these are the rules posted on the High Speed Hobbies website:
Racing Standards and Rules:

These Rules are not set in stone and we will at times make allowances or changes at the discretion of the Race Official.

First Rules: is to have FUN!

Second Rule is NO cheating. If you are found in violation of the rules you will be suspended from racing for the rest of the season. If you agree to race in the points race you are agreeing that your vehicle may be inspected at any time.

Third Rule: cars qualifying for the points race must have a transponder. You may race without a transponder, but it is the driver's responsibility to find someone to count laps for their car. Racers must notify the Race Official of the number of laps completed. Racer's without a transponder will not qualify for a 1st through 3rd place championship position. Sorry, but it is so hard to verify the laps. Others question the reliability of the lap counter. The lap counter does not randomly choose who it will count and who it will not count. It is the racer's responsbility to ensure the transponder is installed properly and the battery is fully charged.

Fourth Rule: It is noted that everyone wants the regulations to benefit them. Please go back to rule number one. If you want serious racing another race official will be hired and $5.00 entry fee per racer will be charged. We are totally open to this idea.

The races will start at exactly 7:00. All heats will be 4 minutes in length. Drivers have 5 minutes to be ready for the next race. If we find racing goes later than 9:30 with the 5 minute rule we will change to 3 minutes.

Classes are as follows:

Mini-z Novice Stock

This class is for drivers whose laps are less than 45 laps for an 8 minute race. No board changes. IF fets need changing only one set of Standard fets are allowed. X-speed motor, bearings, diff, etc may be changed. The board may not be changed. If any racer wins 2 mains and consistently runs 45 plus laps the racer will be moved to the Pro Stock Class.

Mini-z Pro Stock

No board changes. If fets have been or will be changed you must notify the racing official. Only a standard set of fets will be allowed in this Class. If laps fall below 45 for 2 races, racer will be moved to the Novice Stock Class.

Mini-z Super Modified - Everything goes. Any racer may enter this race

Breeze
2008.02.11, 10:18 PM
Hey Pick,
Those rules are out of date. They have not updated the HSH site in a real long time. I beleive that we are now adhering to a combination of the PN
Racing Regional and the Atomic National rules. That is why we can now run PN motors in stock. I think that the only rules specific to modified are the
180g miniumum weight rule and no Li Po's. I believe that the no Li Po rule might eventually be nixed, though as more TGR type pan car chassis are introduced. I think that the PN and Atomic rules are fair for the most part and the only change I would make in stock class is allowing any stock (no FET stack required) motor, such as the Atomic stock as well as the tried and true Kyosho X-Speed. Our resident Crusty Old Curmudgeon does have a point with his no rules - run what you brung concept, though. It would sure make things easier, but then someone will get PO'ed and then we'd be right back where we started and make up some rules :P

Atomic National Rules:
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26868

PN Regional Rules:
http://www.minizworldcup.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=41

pedrocamp
2008.02.12, 12:29 PM
Will there be a Sweetheart Race Thurs Feb 14th? Open for practice?

Pedro

pedrocamp
2008.02.12, 12:34 PM
Can one run a stock car in the mod class? The comment has been made that stocks often turn more laps than the mods...
I would do it for more track time, only change to car would be a VDS body.

Thanks,

Pedro

cosmicsoul
2008.02.12, 01:51 PM
Just a thought starting 30 minutes earlier might give enough time for another class. Maybe 2.4's when they come out. Or why not just run mini-z chassis only that would eliminate a class save some time and not complicate the rules. I love 18th scale I own a scalpel, 2 xrays, an RC18r, RS4 Micro and 2 RC18t's. I don't think there is enough room on the track for any one else to run in the 18th scale class with out having another race. If anymore people decide to run 18th scale then we will be in the same boat. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, I just think that in the essence of time and simplicity maybe it would make sense for the night to be Mini-z exclusive. What do I know though, I am getting lapped by the kids in the novice group!

pooiswyked
2008.02.13, 05:58 PM
last weekt here were 4 1/18th scales.


our main was 4 minutes. with one heat. i don't really think we're taking up enough time to where we need to be introduced to a mini z only night.


we need definite rules. we either adhere to the regional or national rules alone, or make up our own IMO.


and if i can't run my Scalpel thursday nights i hate to say it, but i will be highly pissed.:)

Breeze
2008.02.14, 02:41 PM
Can one run a stock car in the mod class? The comment has been made that stocks often turn more laps than the mods...
I would do it for more track time, only change to car would be a VDS body.

Thanks,

Pedro

Yes, you can run a stock car in the mod class. And you will probably win with it! Just look out on the straights :P

pedrocamp
2008.02.14, 05:58 PM
Look forward to racing with you guys again in two weeks. Going home to Chicago the coming week.
Has any one heard when the new LM cars will be available? When would HSH have some in stock or available for order? I'd prefer to run mod with one of those.

thanks,
Pedro

n2rc
2008.02.14, 09:49 PM
pedro, you can run your stock car in modified. i did it for a long time last year. they do usually run more laps. like lara said though, the straights can be a little hairy. we have some fast modifieds, but if you get out front you can run smooth and win with a stock. i look forward to racing mod with you. as far as the new cars. the talk is that they are double stacked fets so they will need to be run in modified. not sure, but i was told they come with a x speed. this can be changed to whatever you want. motors are the first thing to go in modified. not sure if your m8 will work on the new car though. you drive right handed so you can use the stock radio. no one knows what radios will work with the kopro based 2.4 cars. i was told only kopro based 2.4 radios. the spectrum system is still a big question mark? todd

n2rc
2008.02.14, 09:58 PM
the 2.4's will have to be run in modified. they have a double fet stack from kyosho. we do not need to add another class for them as we already have somewhere for them to run. i also think there are still people interested in 1/18th scale and they do only take 8 total minutes to run. we need to work on running the race more efficiently than dropping classes. i forsee a stock (single fet class), mod (2.4 & fet stacking allowed), 1/18th and f1. todd

pedrocamp
2008.02.15, 06:25 AM
Thanks for the info Todd.
It will have to be an efficient program to get it comfortably into 2 hours, especially if an increase in racers adds more heats. I am used to spending at least 4 hours at a 10th scale track, if not 6 (wives don't like that very much!). Vicki seemed to keep the night moving and organizing your computer system will help - I think it will work.
Do you change the track layout from time to time?


Pedro

Breeze
2008.02.15, 01:27 PM
Hi Pedro,
We have not changed the track yet as it is a brand new layout. We just got the RCP track at the end of last year. I instigated the change from carpet to the RCP surface mainly for the ease of which the layout can be changed. I would like to see us run an oval race soon. Also, the traction seems to be the same in either direction, so I would like to see us run clockwise also. That would be like a different track.

pedrocamp
2008.02.16, 09:00 AM
Love the spicy cajun website! Put a bag of spice in your pit box please. Need some for my Little Prairie Friday Stew...

Pedro

Breeze
2008.02.17, 01:08 PM
Thanks, Pedro
Will do!

pedrocamp
2008.02.21, 08:54 AM
Are 8962 Fets legal for the Stock class? They are cheap! Would I need to replace my 3004 Fets with 3010?
Look forward to racing with ya'll next week. Have fun this evening.

Pedro

Breeze
2008.02.21, 05:56 PM
Hi Pedro,
We have been allowing any SO8 Package single layer FET in the stock class for awhile now. The 3010's were hard to get at first and most of the stock class racers were already running 4562's or 7389's anyway. If the Hobby Shop vies for a regional event, say PN or Atomic, then only 3004's and 3010's will be allowed by these sanctioning bodies for the stock class. On another note, I will not be there tonight either, the weather is too bad for two wheels. I will ride in the rain if I get stuck in it, but I have a hard time getting on my bike and riding out somewhere in the rain. It would have to be an emergency or work, etc... I do have some Cajun Spice for you and I will throw in a couple for Tony and Mr. Gibbs - no charge this time. :D We can use all the exposure we can get! See you next week!

n2rc
2008.02.23, 03:05 AM
i see no problem putting 8962 fets in you car. as long as you don't double stack them. sounds like a good plan for you to update your enzo and buy a new 2.4 double stacked fet car when they come out and run it in modified. we will have a larger modified class when these cars come out. i see almost everyone running a car in stock and modified. 4 to 5 sets of batteries would get you through the night. todd

pedrocamp
2008.02.23, 09:22 AM
Thanks, I'll get my readin' spectacles and my pointy tipped soldering iron. I could be racing mod only if I fry this board...
On that note has anyone heard yet if any 2.4 ghz transmitter module will work with the new car? I've heard Kopropo will work but would an Airtronics? Need to know if I need to order car only or Readyset.
How was the action last night?

Pedro

pick
2008.02.23, 12:18 PM
Hey Pedro,
Don't know if you're a master with the soldering iron or not? But seeing that I fried a perfect board, you might want to have Wade or Lara do the fets. Just a suggestion. They're really cheap and do it all the time. I ended up having to buy a new board and pay for the fet change due to my inexperience (stupidity). I can't tell you about the compatability of other 2.4 controllers with the new car. However, we had a great race night on Thursday. Not quite as many people due to weather, but we still had a lot of fun. Look forward to seeing you next time.
James

cosmicsoul
2008.02.23, 02:47 PM
Hey James,

Maybe you should spend a little less time in the the forum and a little more time trying to figure out how to fit that transponder in your F1.

Jay Vasquez
Official Lap Counter for James PICK:D

cosmicsoul
2008.02.23, 02:55 PM
On a little more serious note. I know I probably need alot more practice before I advance to the stock, mod and F1 classes however I have noticed some guys running novice and the above mentioned classes,(I could be mistaken)what is the criteria if any for advancement.

Jay Vasquez

pick
2008.02.23, 05:44 PM
I hear ya Jay! I'm still trying to fit that transponder so you can be relieved, but no luck yet. Everything so far either doesn't fit or causes glitching. As far as the race classes, this is how it works. There are technically 2 stock classes, novice stock and pro stock. According to the old rules, the novice class is for racers running under 45 laps in the main. Normally we divide all stock cars into 2 or 3 mains depending on how many racers so that there aren't too many cars at one time. Your qualifying time during the heats determines which main you run in with the A main being the fastest cars. If you win your main, you get to bump up and run the next main also. Either way, your times will automatically put you in the correct race. As far as Open Modified and F1, anyone with a car suited for the class can run. If there starts being too many racers at once, those will probably be divided into multiple heats and mains also. So basically, get your junk out and run it!!
James

cosmicsoul
2008.02.26, 09:50 AM
Hey James,

I picked up an F-1 from a guy in Atlanta of the forums a coulpe of weeks ago. I finally got some track time with it this morning, it is awesome. Hopefully I will run it this week if I can make it to Highspeed. How about put the transponder ontop of the motor or rear wing even with velcro I am going to give it a shot I guess you have to hook up power at the board with the motor. Any suggestions anyone?

Jay Vasquez

pedrocamp
2008.02.26, 10:15 PM
Hey Jay,

Don't connect the transponder to the motor-to-board connection point. The power is regulated by the speed control. Tap into the feed from the batteries to the board. Hopefully one of the guys that have fit an AMB to an F1 will reply with some tips on location.

Pedro

Hope to see you Thursday.

cosmicsoul
2008.02.27, 12:13 AM
Thanks for the 411 Pedro. I think that Lara has a transponder in his F-1 maybe he will respond. It sure would be nice if we could get little more activity going on here on the forum. Anyway maybe I am the only one who checks it 3 to 5 times a day. Call me obsessive compulsive. Hope to here from some more of you Z-oon.

Jay :)

Breeze
2008.02.27, 02:47 PM
Tommy,
The reason we allow any single layer SO8 package FET is because soon after we started racing @ High Speed Hobbies a few years ago, 3004 FET's were not readily available to repair smoked PCB's. We began using 7389's which were available and then later, 4562's. It was an economic decision so racers would not have to buy a new PCB to repair their cars. Now, there are a number of racer's that are still around from back then and are still running the same boards they started with. As I stated, if a regional event were to be run @ HSH, then the stock rules would have to be strictly adhered to. At this time, we are just club racing and we can make our own rules:p

Breeze
2008.02.27, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the 411 Pedro. I think that Lara has a transponder in his F-1 maybe he will respond. It sure would be nice if we could get little more activity going on here on the forum. Anyway maybe I am the only one who checks it 3 to 5 times a day. Call me obsessive compulsive. Hope to here from some more of you Z-oon.

Jay :)

Jay,
Pedro is right, tap off of the power leads going to the battery. They are on the left side top of the chassis.

pick
2008.02.27, 06:31 PM
I know i do not race with you guys anymore, but i have to ask you something, WHY are you guys putting higher FETs in your car, 8962 or 4562's i know when i was there, reason of change 3004 fets was they blown up , and now that there an new broad 3010's ,:eek:why go to 8962 or 4562's single layer ,i know if you do go to 8962 or 4562's single layer, you miles well run Mod class, with them fet's you will go fast then an 3010 ,By far the 3010 broad is the best way to go ,with an X-speed and PN 07 motor, how i know, i 've beating you guys with this set-up, i know you guys can be up set on what i say here, but i seen alot down there and was not feels on what was going on , the FETS stuff ,looks to me has got out of hand, and i thinkyour just running half stock and mod cars in stock class, its not an true stock class,

let me now who got 62 laps with an with an true stock car with 3010's and no cheating motors, that why i went by the rules, No one checks the cars after the races,well maybe find an person who's not racing that night that knows about Mini-Z. have to police things more,:D

Tommy,
Easy big daddy! Down boy, down. I promise it will be OK. You know we all love ya Tommy. However, I think the only completely correct statement you made is that you don't race down here right now. And yes, we know that you consistantly smoked us on Thursday nights with a 3010 board. With that being said, it shouldn't bother you that other fets are being run. The 3010 still prevailed. Either way, most guys just want an economic alternative to buying a brand new board. And our club rules specifically say that you can run a different single fet layer in the stock class. While we're talking about the rules that you so strictly adhered to, I think I have a copy that says no tire compounds were to be used on Mini-Z's. Depending on how it's interpreted, WD-40 could probably be considered a tire compund. Enough throwing daggers, that doesn't get us anywhere. I'm just here to have fun like most everyone that participates on Thursday night. There's really no need to get too crazy. Let's face it, we're all just a bunch of grown men playing with toy cars (which is fine by me).I'm just as competitive as the next guy, but all you get for winning are bragging rights. So, let's keep it fun!
James