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View Full Version : my 2.4ghz / kt-18 review....


herman
2008.02.23, 03:48 AM
hi folks... just got back from r/c heaven (well just in case you’re scratching your head and wondering what the heck I am talking about, you can read up on r/c heaven by clicking on it in my signature… ok, ok… it’s in h.k. there I spilled the beans… now you all know where r/c heaven is…:D)

now on to my article... where was i??? oh yeah... luckily i was able to get some stuff during my visit to h.k. er i mean... r/c heaven...

one of the prized purchases was the mr-02lm porsche 962 2.4ghz asf chassis kit with the kt-18 asf transmitter/controller...

while walking towards the place, i noticed that most of the stores were closed... it was way past 10pm, but i figured i had lady luck on my side...

as i approached one particular store, i noticed that it was still open... and i kinda reluctantly went in...

i found out that stores in r/c heaven usually close around 9pm and open after lunch...

some stores open way after lunch… say around 3pm (as a side note, lunch hour in h.k. kinda varies... some shops take a late lunch between 1-2pm) so if you plan to go I would suggest to go around 5-6pm when most of the stores are all open… but i digress...

i looked around while the shop owner was tending to a customer purchasing a bigger scale r/c...

when i finally got the time, i pointed to the 2.4ghz chassis kit and kt-18 controller, and asked "how much?"...

1,300 h.k.dollars he barked back... with some simple computation i figured out it cost some 168 u.s.dollars... what else more could i do? other stores around were closed...

"i'll take it...." i said while trying to hide the huge grin on my face... :D unfortunately though it was the kenwood version, and i wanted the rothmans version... "autoscale is 220 h.k. dollars" (approx 29 u.s. dolloars) so i decided to get that too... and some other autoscales as well..

i was wondering if i should get another.... but i soon found out that it was his last asf kit... talk about luck... he mentions that his whole 2.4 ghz stock just got in 4 days ago... and after my purchase, that was it...

anyway i just opened the kit and after programming the kt-18... i finally got it to run...

initial thoughts...
2.4ghz mr02 pretty smooth... steering and acceleration... tires were sticky and when you get them dirty they do tend to spin out... steering was way more responsive... and i feel that acceleration is a lot more compared to the previous models... (maybe they're due to the two pairs of 3010 fets that are on the new board - although i've just learned of that through reading the forums, i really haven't opened mine to check if it is true... i think there are some pictures that were posted somewhere....)

detail on asc... as usual... superb....

kt-18... not as bad as it looks.... programmable and quite simple once you get the hang of things... one thing i do miss though is the dual rate knob that is found on the first controller the kt-2 (i prefer using the kt-2 over the kt-5) if i remember it right the kt-5 does have a dual rate knob but it's covered up and you can't really adjust it during a race...

i really think this is the way to go for the mini... kyosho did a really good job in coming up with this development..

i just can't wait for the module for the ur-1/helios and older mars... not to mention the conversion boards for the mr02 and mr015.... and the option parts too

:D

hope to post some pics when i get the chance... :D

pinoyboy
2008.02.23, 09:11 PM
Nice review Herman! I did use mine in a race today, took some time getting use to the faster response, especially when you get a little more tense in a race than when your just practicing. I didn't bring my manual too, so I kinda forgot how to do some of the settings

Anyways, thought I'd contribute some pics of the fets on top and bottom

top
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q264/hescobal/ASF%20MR-02/MR-0224ghzPCB002.jpg
bottom
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q264/hescobal/ASF%20MR-02/MR-0224ghzPCB005.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q264/hescobal/ASF%20MR-02/MR-0224ghzPCB003.jpg

lfisminiz
2008.02.23, 11:54 PM
Herman, good review. I feel the same on all the points you hit. The one thing i did do was take steering knob off. Didnt like the flat spot on it. I put one on from one of my older Z radios. Like you, need the Helios adapter.;)

Queso
2008.02.24, 01:13 PM
I've been thinking about getting back into z's again, are these new 2.4ghz the way to go?

herman
2008.02.25, 06:06 AM
I've been thinking about getting back into z's again, are these new 2.4ghz the way to go?

hi queso... in my opinion, heck yeah! with all the improvements over the previous models; just to mention some - no need for crystals due to the 2.4ghz technology; better fets - a double 3010 if i'm not mistaken; a better servo - feels a whole lot more responsive compared to the previous z's; a much lighter & programable tx (which needs a little getting used to)

i figure this will be the new standard. which i guess kinda explains why kyosho is coming out with conversion boards for the mr015/02 & awd...

if your planning to get one, i suggest waiting a bit till prices stabilize...

although i got mine in h.k. for approx 160+ u.s. dollars, i've seen prices in the u.s. above 200+...

as new stuff tend to be overpriced just a bit.

hope this helps :D

slientbob
2008.02.25, 01:48 PM
byebye let me drive his. and to me i didn't like the knob it felt like there was no resistance. reverce takes some geting used to also.

Felix2010
2008.02.25, 05:24 PM
byebye let me drive his. and to me i didn't like the knob it felt like there was no resistance. reverce takes some geting used to also.
I got a Rothman 962 Porsche and a KT-18. The 2.4gHz ASF technology is going to be great.... As soon as the KO Helios & MARS-IUR ASF module is available.:D
I have nothing but good things to say about the ASF chassis and PCB and the new LM AutoScales. The 2.4gHz ASF response is very fast - Even more so than I expected.
As for the KT-18, I am disappointed. The steering wheel is the main problem - Well, the steering wheel and the $80 price tag. As slientbob said, the tension on the steering wheel is way too light. Because of this I am having a difficult time accurately controlling the ASF MR02's much-faster-response steering. I am used to my Helios which has much more steering tension (Which is also adjustable via a screw), giving the Helios great steering "feel" and making it easier to gauge and "measure" the steering (And customize the wheel tension if you wish). A friend of mine said something like, "The KT-18 is basically an $80 KT-5". I think the feel & looks of the KT-5 are better than the KT-18.
$80 is definitely steep for what you get with the KT-18.

As slientbob also mentioned, "reverse" on the KT-18 doesn't engage as easily as it does on the stock-AM Mini-Zs and the AD-Band. I don't know however if this is something that is related to the KT-18 or the 2.4gHz-ASF PCB. I am hoping it is the KT-18 that is causing the "reverse" to be different.

herman
2008.02.25, 08:56 PM
pinoyboy>Nice review Herman! lfisminiz>Herman, good review.
thanks and appreciate your comments... :D
pinoyboy thanks for the pics... looks like you've moved the asf board into a mr02 chassis... how does it handle? what wheelbase/body are you using? just wondering how it handles with a shorter wheelbase... (i.e. 94/98mm) and what effect it has on other bodies other than the 926 porsche...

some other things...
- if indeed the motor is being powered by the dual 3010 fets, what drives the servo/pot?
- if somebody wanted to do a stack (not that i would be doing one soon), where would one attach the extra pairs of fets - on top or down below?

thanks for any replies... :D

herman
2008.02.25, 09:10 PM
As for the KT-18, I am disappointed
if you're coming from a helios, i can quite understand your feelings on the kt-18... :D
wow... i didn't know that it cost some 80$ over there.... since i got mine together with the chassis, i didn't bother asking how much each cost, if they were sold seperately...

well after going through the manual quite a bit... i found out that it is programmable to some degree... something that can't be done on the kt-5...

and i did notice some similar issues while going into reverse as well...

Felix2010
2008.02.25, 11:31 PM
herman, I am glad you posted your thoughts on your ASF purchase. :) I forgot to mention your name at the beginning of my post, my bad. Sorry my man.

Yup-Yup, the KT-18 is $80US everywhere if you buy it separately. I thought that you had undoubtedly seen on the few websites that are offering pre-orders on the ASF MR-02 and KT-18 that you had seen that it cost this much. Again, my bad for assuming. I got my ASF car/chassis & KT-18 shipped to me from a good friend of mine in Japan. I was all fired-up on getting one of these since they were first mentioned in October last year. I agree with you that the 2.4gHz "no glitch" technology is the way to go for Mini-Z.:D

I realize that I have experience with the Helios and I tried my best to take that into consideration before saying what I did about the KT-18. If the KT-18 didn't cost $80 I wouldn't be so harsh. I know that not everybody has $80 to drop on a new Tx and I looked at everything as if I just dropped the $80 on any other part. I think that for this kind of cash, Kyosho could definitely have offered a better Tx.
I had looked at the KT-18 manual posted by Tim, and saw that it has End-Point adjustments and a few other features not offered on the KT-2 or KT-5. On paper the KT-18 looked to be a decent Tx and I was leaning on the optimistic-side, even after I asked for my friend's opinion on the ASF car & KT-18 before it was shipped to me. But when I ran the ASF MR02 for the first time, I quickly realized that the performance of the new ASF technology is limited by the KT-18 instead of being taken-advantage of by the KT-18.
There are some good points to the KT-18, like the use of only 4-AAA cells for power, and the lightweight, but the most critical parts to the radio - The steering wheel and the throttle (The weird thing with going reverse) -Just didn't seem to be on-par with Kyosho quality. I wanted to join in review of the KT-18. I couldn't help but be a little bummed about its performance for $80.
herman, I totally didn't mean to hijack your thread. I just wanted to expand some on the few comments I saw you and others had posted so far. I saw that you and lfisminiz both had wrote that you are awaiting getting the Helios/MARS module, and wanted to say that - I am too!!(In case I didn't mention that,lol):D Once paired with the Helios/MARS-IUR, I think the ASF Mini-Zs are going to be sa-weet baby!:D

About the servo/pot - I asked this same question to Cristian in one of the other 2.4gHz ASF threads and he said he thinks the two micro-FETs on the opposite side/place of the PCB as the servo wires are what power the servo motor. He said he wasn't sure on this though.
Also, as for the FET upgrade - you can ad the extra layer of FETs to either side. Both sides are connected in parallel just like a regular 2x2 FET stack, so adding another layer to either side will make the stack one-layer higher (2x3, 2x4,etc.):D

piper1944
2008.02.26, 12:11 AM
where are the pis of your car?is it out in the usa yet?

herman
2008.02.26, 12:35 AM
Felix2010.... it's no problem, no apologies needed... all comments are welcome... it's all good.... :D

so it's not just me regarding reverse issues... sometimes, well most of the time it'll brake when you tap it forward once... a double tap to make it go into reverse will not always work though... you'll have to keep it in neutral for a couple of seconds, then it'll go into reverse... kinda weird... but appart from that it's fine... :D

steering tension... hmm... since i don't have a helios, steering tension was never a real issue for me, but i guess it would be for guys who are coming down from a higher grade radio (i.e helios, et. al.) to the kt-18, which i believe is a step down or definite downgrade to a more simple radio...

where are the pis of your car?is it out in the usa yet?
pics out soon... not quite sure if it's out in the usa yet... but some dogs are luckier than others... (some get them through ebay and some online stores like the shop here, and some others still get them from other online shops based abroad) hope this helps... :D

pinoyboy
2008.02.26, 11:29 AM
yea, reverse is a little funky. It says in the manual that after breaking, you must return the trigger to neutral and wait .2 seconds, then press the trigger forward to get reverse

It doesn't sound like much, but it seems to throw people off. Like herman, I'm use to a quick double tap.

Tjay
2008.02.26, 12:44 PM
Nice review Herman!

I too have driven this 2.4G mini-z from one of our local racers. He bought his straight from Japan 2-3 weeks ago. It's very precise, awesome respond in both throttle and steering. Although he was complaining about his reverse... I want to get one but I don't like to use the stock radio so, I'm probably going to wait till the end of March to get the KO sepktrum module in Japan before I get the car... I just hope the US and Japan are compatible.

Z_408
2008.02.26, 01:11 PM
Nice review Herman!

I too have driven this 2.4G mini-z from one of our local racers. He bought his straight from Japan 2-3 weeks ago. It's very precise, awesome respond in both throttle and steering. Although he was complaining about his reverse... I want to get one but I don't like to use the stock radio so, I'm probably going to wait till the end of March to get the KO sepktrum module in Japan before I get the car... I just hope the US and Japan are compatible.

Go back to work.

Tjay
2008.02.26, 07:09 PM
Go back to work.

get off the forum and take a day off! hahaha!

Queso
2008.02.27, 12:20 AM
so pretty much everybody is saying the same thing, the 2.4ghz rock
ok I'm in I get my tax check in a few days and I'll pick one up.
now i can use any mr-02 hop ups on this chassis correct?

herman
2008.02.27, 12:37 AM
now i can use any mr-02 hop ups on this chassis correct?
er not quite sir... which is a bummer... they have a number of hop ups on their own (ball diff, motor heat sink and some others) although i think you can use some 02 option parts like front springs, rear spring, and oil shock...

i've also read that the bodies aren't that durable... notably the front nose area... i am kinda sad because the 962 seems to be a cool body... some guys swapped the board right out to their mr02...

herman
2008.02.27, 12:48 AM
as promised some pictures.... :D
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3811.jpg
kinda weird... lots of space between the rear wheel and fender
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3812.jpg
chassis weight...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3814.jpg
body weight...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3836.jpg

herman
2008.02.27, 12:53 AM
more pics with other rims...
offset isn't quite flush with the body... it's more inset, which might be a good thing though... rims are from gt3 porsche you can use these if you think you need extra protection i guess... looks kinda cool too... :D
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3821.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3822.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3824.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3827.jpg

herman
2008.02.27, 01:04 AM
again with different rims... got these from the porsche 924 jaggermeister (classic fat rims)... again looks kinda cool... from the pictures, just as the previous gt3 rims, these are pretty much inset as well... well protected by the body, which is good if you're looking for that kind of thing...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3817.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3819.jpg
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3818.jpg

hope you enjoyed the pics... :D

Tjay
2008.02.27, 02:38 AM
so pretty much everybody is saying the same thing, the 2.4ghz rock
ok I'm in I get my tax check in a few days and I'll pick one up.
now i can use any mr-02 hop ups on this chassis correct?

what one of our local racer did was convert his LM to MM...everything fits but the body.

Nice pics Herman!

Queso
2008.02.27, 10:19 AM
what one of our local racer did was convert his LM to MM...everything fits but the body.

Nice pics Herman!

ok so lets say i picked up a mm aftermarket motor pod/mount
and a new body, then all mr-02 parts would work fine no?

I was thinking about using a BMW x5 body lowered just a bit on a mr-02 mm
or on a 2.4ghz mm conversion.

am I missing anything?

simpleskin
2008.02.27, 10:26 AM
I also am having reverse problems. Especially if the wheels are turned. Has anyone else experienced this?

I had to reinforce the front of the body, even in stock trim, hitting a RCP rail at high speed will crack the nose on either side of the front clip.

Overall I'm pretty impress with how well this thing drives on RCP tracks straight out of the box even with stock tires. Kyosho did a pretty good job here.

If you are ever going to hit anything I strongly suggest you reinforce the nose of the body.

-j

pinoyboy
2008.02.27, 10:57 AM
it does seem you must have the wheels straight to get reverse, but I got use to it and don't find it a problem anymore

simpleskin
2008.02.27, 11:04 AM
it does seem you must have the wheels straight to get reverse, but I got use to it and don't find it a problem anymore

I'm getting used to it but still seems weird. Anyone else having cracking issues with the bodies?

Tjay
2008.02.27, 11:35 AM
ok so lets say i picked up a mm aftermarket motor pod/mount
and a new body, then all mr-02 parts would work fine no?

yes. since you have an MR02 why not give it a try? You're not gonna loose anything?

I was thinking about using a BMW x5 body lowered just a bit on a mr-02 mm
or on a 2.4ghz mm conversion.

don't know. Can't tell you. I only use my cars for racing...

piper1944
2008.02.27, 04:25 PM
looks awesome...cant wait to get mine...

Felix2010
2008.02.27, 07:48 PM
Felix2010.... it's no problem, no apologies needed... all comments are welcome... it's all good.... :D


Cool. Thanks herman.:)

herman
2008.02.27, 10:04 PM
queso... i kinda agree with tj... although

the mr02 lm chassis has a wider front track width compared to the mr02 chassis... just a tad wider (like the mr02 compared to the mr01 when the first mr02 came out)... will borrow a caliper to measure for sure...

so... if you get a mm motor pod and put it on the mr02 lm chassis, i think it would work, just get the correct rim/wheel offsets...

as for a bmw x-5 on a mr02 chassis... i think i've seen that done before, if i'm not mistaken... it looked pretty cool if i may add...

but again you would have to get the correct rim/wheel offsets in order for it to 'look' or 'feel' right...

depending on the rim/wheel offset, the whole tire/rim assembly might stick out of the fender, or may be too inset (take a look at the pictures i posted of the 962 with different rims - both of them are inset / inside of the fenders - which isn't actually a bad thing if you're going racing)

it's basically a personal preferrence for the rims/tires to actually 'look' or 'feel' right...

anyway hope this helps... :D

herman
2008.02.27, 11:23 PM
the mr02 lm chassis has a wider front track width compared to the mr02 chassis... just a tad wider (like the mr02 compared to the mr01 when the first mr02 came out)... will borrow a caliper to measure for sure...

:o he he... just checked and the mr02 and mr02 lm chassis have the same front track width... :o

so you can just swap out motor mounts rm/mm and use the corresponding mr02 body... oh yeah forgot to mention that you've got to change the front knuckle to the standard mr02 knuckle... :D

hope this helps...

herman
2008.02.28, 12:16 AM
some comparative chassis pictures... stock mr02lm & stock mr02 rm (ferrari 575 - chosen because of it's wide front and rear track width)
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3843.jpg

front track width (lm on the left, 575 on the right) looks almost the same...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3845.jpg

rear track width (lm on the left, 575 on the right) looks like the 575 seems a bit wider in the rear...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3847.jpg

front comparison (lm on the left, 575 on the right)
note chassis is lower to the ground due to the lm knuckle - axle it placed towards the top, compared to the stock mr02 knuckle which is nearer to the center
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3848.jpg

herman
2008.02.28, 12:22 AM
rims... from the looks of the inside the rims, it looks solid, but somebody will have to check for sure...
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3833.jpg

kt-18
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3841.jpg

took off the cover on the back... wonder what that slot with the two prongs are for (right side)
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3840.jpg

piper1944
2008.02.28, 03:13 AM
awesome pics....

Tjay
2008.02.28, 12:02 PM
funny thing is that we have this 2.4g in stock and noone is really going crazy about it... not until th KO module is out and I can't wait for it !

Nice comparison pics Herman! Wait.... is that a caliber tool ;)? Whttp://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_3843.jpgere you at work when you took those pics :D!

herman
2008.02.28, 09:36 PM
yup at work (busted :D)...lol..
and yes that is a digital caliper... :D measured the front track width of the mr02 lm chassis against the mr02... and well they're the same give or take a few .01 mm hehehe...

so i guess you can just swap out the motor mount and tada you've got a mr02 mm or mr02 rm... which is pretty good to know, since all the while i thought that the front track width of the mr02 lm would be a tad wider... :D

herman
2008.02.28, 11:58 PM
more thoughts on the mr02 lm....

got to run it in the office... it was pretty fast and responsive even with the stock 6t pinion (guess it was all due to the 4 3010 fets in the car)... still trying to get used to the reversing issue...

after running it for a short while, i noticed that the body had small hairline cracks up front in the nose section as a result of some minor collisions with chair and table legs... and i wasn't going that fast... i'd say amongst all of the bodies that kyosho made, this one would be the most fragile... kinda sad...

stock tires are sticky and seem to have pretty decent grip, but once it collects dirt, it's spin city...

there's a lot of space between the rear fender and rear wheel... it just doesn't look right... guess you'll have to shim the motor pod or relocate the body mounts...

bmxtrev
2008.02.29, 08:52 PM
where can i find a 2.4 ghz conversion set for a mr02 RM?

LBRC
2008.02.29, 11:36 PM
You wait; the shop here will have them just as soon as anyone in the US and for a better price than most. They where suppose to be released yesterday but thatís in Japan and maybe HK, then Europe gets theirs, and finally in a month or two the US shipment will arive.

rharris
2008.03.01, 02:41 AM
where can i find a 2.4 ghz conversion set for a mr02 RM?


I was thinking about waiting for the conversion kit. But if it sells anything like the AM or AD boards, it will cost around $30 less then a ready set.

So I just picked up on of the 2.4 cars. The Autoscales cost $40, so for $130, you get a body, and the car. All you have to do is take the parts off your RM and you are ready to go.

HaCo
2008.03.01, 05:04 AM
took off the cover on the back... wonder what that slot with the two prongs are for (right side)


I think this will be the expansion slot, although two pins don't seem enough for communication + power supply of an expansion slot... w'll have to wait, and see... :) I hope they come up with some sort of memory module!

Rune
2008.03.01, 06:25 AM
You wait; the shop here will have them just as soon as anyone in the US and for a better price than most. They where suppose to be released yesterday but thatís in Japan and maybe HK, then Europe gets theirs, and finally in a month or two the US shipment will arive.

Here in Europe we have had them for one month. They came into the shops on february 7.
The electronics are great. I have only ran it with regular 02 MM setup.

herman
2008.03.02, 11:44 PM
where can i find a 2.4 ghz conversion set for a mr02 RM?
i agree with rharris on this one...

get a mr02lm... since the main chassis is like the mr02, take out the lm motor mount and replace that with the rm mount (or any other mount) & the standard front knuckle... and you're good to go...

not to mention you will be getting an added bonus for the really pretty 962 porsche autoscale body (worth $40) to boot... :D

herman
2008.03.02, 11:45 PM
I think this will be the expansion slot, although two pins don't seem enough for communication + power supply of an expansion slot... w'll have to wait, and see... I hope they come up with some sort of memory module!

thanks for the info...

herman
2008.03.06, 09:43 PM
another update....

after having some issues with reverse.... i finally resolved the issue... :D :D :D it works a lot better now... when all else fails... read the manual... :D :D :D
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27704&page=3