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herman
2008.02.25, 10:32 PM
quick question guys...

not that i would be doing a fet upgrade anytime soon, i was wondering...

where would one add the fets? on top or at the bottom? i've read that these boards already have 4 3010 fets on them (two on top and two on the bottom)

also wondering what powers the servo/pot? didn't a pair of 3004 fets supply power to them in the older boards? don't see them on the 2.4ghz board...

thanks and appreciate any replies... :D

imxlr8ed
2008.02.26, 06:05 AM
Would suggest doing both to avoid a weak link, as far as the steering fets goes.. I'm not sure how the AD bands had it.

byebye
2008.02.26, 06:52 AM
4x2 3010 would be pretty good. I remember some guys running T2's and PN S03's on the adband cars so I don't think it would be necessary. The 3010x2 is very smooth.

I remember RUF saying it's digital and didn't need those FET's or somthing like that. Maybe that had to do with the POT?

Kris

herman
2008.02.27, 03:46 AM
I remember some guys running T2's and PN S03's on the adband cars so I don't think it would be necessary.hmm... do you mean you can run the t2 and s03 on the stock 4 3010 fet 2.4ghz board with no problems? is the ad band board and 2.4ghz board similar?

4x2 3010 would be pretty good.
so i take that it would mean, adding two more 3010 on top and two more on the bottom 2.4ghz board?

byebye
2008.02.27, 07:00 AM
hmm... do you mean you can run the t2 and s03 on the stock 4 3010 fet 2.4ghz board with no problems? is the ad band board and 2.4ghz board similar?
Yes, Jo at CRC in Germany had an awd and an MR-02 setup with a T2 on ADBAND

And Roger was running an S03 on adband. The ASF board has the same FET setup as the adband. That's why so many were curious about the FET's. This means you can run some pretty hot motors.



so i take that it would mean, adding two more 3010 on top and two more on the bottom 2.4ghz board?

I realized what I typed only when you quoted it. I meant 8 total with 4x2 on each side. I supposed though we've seen the upper limits with normal AM boards(4x2 4562) and I don't think 8 FET's is necessary. At today's cost of 2.4ghz chassis I don't want to be the first to find out if more than 4 FET's cause the steering to go crazy:D

Kris

rharris
2008.02.27, 12:02 PM
I managed to smoke a stock AD board running a 33 wind motor (the anima). I can't say for sure what happened, but I'm not about to run low wind motors on my new 2.4 boards with stock 3010 fets.

A single stack of 4562's (4 total, 2 on each side) is enough and that's what I now run on my AD boards for open class pan car.

I don't see why it would be an issue with the 2.4 board.

Spoon
2008.02.27, 12:38 PM
It sounds like we need a new standard for talking about FET stacks on these double FET boards.

Maybe the stock setup is 1x1x1x1 and a stacked setup is 2x2x2x2

Just a thought.

yasuji
2008.02.27, 01:20 PM
It sounds like we need a new standard for talking about FET stacks on these double FET boards.

Maybe the stock setup is 1x1x1x1 and a stacked setup is 2x2x2x2

Just a thought.

i ran a 4x4(8 fets 4 on each side)on my ad band boards for the regional and the world cup in my opinion with batteries such as duracell 1000s on a grippie track this is the way to go.....in a track that suffers from grip such as the world cup track or insideline ....it provides too much punch...even with the ad setting on high
and now with the more powerful batteries like orion, team scream.....:eek:way too much punch
so now my ad board has a 2x2(4 fets 2 on each side) of the an0113 pn racing fet
run time is longer wit 2x2 and it is controllable coming out of corners
i ran my ad board std as is when the atomic chilli motor came out and i smoked the fets.....so i will be upgrading my 2.4 board to an0113 fets @ 2x2:D

Tjay
2008.02.27, 01:37 PM
I tried running 2x2 FETs on my mod 2wd for about a month but I could not get the rear end to stay planted so I end up running a single stack 8962 fets since this is super smooth and it fits my liking.

CristianTabush
2008.02.27, 02:17 PM
I'm with TJay on this one. The less FETs you can get away with running, the better. Spec wise, a single stack of 4562's should withstand the highest of abuse, even with a Chili, T2, etc on an MR-02. On an AWD, this might be a different case as you actually need extra power and punch.

My choice is leaving the AD Band stock. At the atomic cup earlier this year, I blew the top stack on my back-up car and replaced it with 4562's only at the top. The car was WAAAY too fast. My main car had a regular 3010 board and was way more manageable.

I think the main thing to consider is what class are you running and what motor. Due to the nature of our competitions (In the case of 2wd modified-with handout motors in modified that are less than ideal, and too fast), I tend to limit my FETs and batteries to slow the car down. I don't care if you are Masami Hirosaka, these cars simply have too much power to control with 4x2 stacks and fast batteries. Even if the grip is high, slow your car down and you will go faster.

AWDs can be deceiving. You can get the power down, but if you overpower it, the car starts spinning the wheels without you really noticing. Just because all 4 wheels pull, it does not mean that they won't loose grip on the track. My choice here is a 2x2 stack of 4562's, sometimes, just a single 4562 on top of the stock 3010.

Pan car I have learned a lot about lately. These cars are much easier to drive than the rest of the Mini-Z's due to the increased downforce provided by the bodies. It does not mean that they can't be overpowered though. Here I have found luck with a 2x2 of 4562's. The car will stick even when running fast batteries, but you will run faster laps if you de-tune on the batteries a little bit (this means the power to weight is better for acceleration when this factor is decreased).

Stock; is a free for all. Run as many FETs and as fast of a battery you want. Especially with the new 70 turn motor rule. With this wind, it won't make much of a difference. I'd recommend a 2x2-2x3 of 4562's. Anything above this is not only redundant but counter-productive. The decreased resistance is probably added by the extra solder. You loose throttle resolution, and it does not fit right unless you do crazy conversions to the cars :)

If we had free reign on competition rules, then you could run more efficient FETs, faster batteries, etc. Unfortunately this is not the case for everyone. Ideally, the fastest MR-02 around a track would probably be one with a 2x2 stack of 4562's with a Speedy AD (slightly faster than the Speedy 07) and really fast batteries. Unfortunately, we are stuck using the Chili and Anima 2, and therefore, you have to tune accordingly.

Tjay
2008.02.27, 04:33 PM
Exactly! On my AWD's I am running 2x2 4562 fets since the car needs more power/punch and it can handle it no problem.

My mod 02 (single stack 8962) on the atomic race, I had to loosen up the diff just so I can get around without spinning out. It was really bad though cause I loosen it a little too much that I could not pull myself out of the corners and we were not allowed to test the car on the track during breaks... Chilli motors on an 02 is just way too much especially on a technical track. I had to run my tenergy batts on that day to slow me down a bit and reconfigure my throttle finger :D!

The new stock rules is gonna be awesome! I am working on my 2x2 fet PCB transfered on my old 3010's stock car. With the new stock class motor, we'll need all the power we can get. So, definitely need to pack more HOT batts not just for my awd but for the stock 2wd as well.

ruf
2008.02.27, 08:02 PM
Stacking FETs can only decrease on-resistance which means more power transmission, BUT the downside is increasing input capacitance which makes for laggy, unpredictable power delivery. I also like to run as few FETs as possible given the motor application - stock, mod, whatever. It's easier and usually cheaper to find power in other areas of the driveline.

Felix2010
2008.02.27, 08:34 PM
My choice is leaving the AD Band stock. At the atomic cup earlier this year, I blew the top stack on my back-up car and replaced it with 4562's only at the top. The car was WAAAY too fast. My main car had a regular 3010 board and was way more manageable.

I think the main thing to consider is what class are you running and what motor. Due to the nature of our competitions (In the case of 2wd modified-with handout motors in modified that are less than ideal, and too fast), I tend to limit my FETs and batteries to slow the car down. I don't care if you are Masami Hirosaka, these cars simply have too much power to control with 4x2 stacks and fast batteries. Even if the grip is high, slow your car down and you will go faster.

Pan car I have learned a lot about lately. These cars are much easier to drive than the rest of the Mini-Z's due to the increased downforce provided by the bodies. It does not mean that they can't be overpowered though. Here I have found luck with a 2x2 of 4562's. The car will stick even when running fast batteries, but you will run faster laps if you de-tune on the batteries a little bit (this means the power to weight is better for acceleration when this factor is decreased).

Stock; is a free for all. Run as many FETs and as fast of a battery you want. Especially with the new 70 turn motor rule. With this wind, it won't make much of a difference. I'd recommend a 2x2-2x3 of 4562's. Anything above this is not only redundant but counter-productive. The decreased resistance is probably added by the extra solder. You loose throttle resolution, and it does not fit right unless you do crazy conversions to the cars :)

If we had free reign on competition rules, then you could run more efficient FETs, faster batteries, etc. Unfortunately this is not the case for everyone. Ideally, the fastest MR-02 around a track would probably be one with a 2x2 stack of 4562's with a Speedy AD (slightly faster than the Speedy 07) and really fast batteries. Unfortunately, we are stuck using the Chili and Anima 2, and therefore, you have to tune accordingly.

Thank you for the info on your FET recommendations, Cristian.
I would like to leave my AD-MR02 and my new ASF-MR02 alone and keep them both 2x2 3010s (4-FET total), but you mentioned the problem with this - When you have to run a specific hand-out motor. The ANIMA II and the CHILI are too hot from what I've read to run on an MR-02 chassis with the stock AD-Band or 2.4 ASF PCB. What are your thoughts on adding an additional single-layer of 3010's to the AD-PCB and the ASF-PCB, making them a 2x3 3010 stack(6-FET total)? Would you consider this an option for Mod-Class MR-02 (2WD) Racing, or would you rather go with a 2x2 4562(4-FET total)stack instead? I am speaking about 2WD only, not the MA-010.
I am very happy with the feel and performance of the 2x2 3010 FETs, it's just that I want to make sure my car can handle the Mod-Class motor, which has been the ANIMA/ANIMA II.
Thanks again for your help.

herman
2008.02.28, 01:42 AM
another cool read... enjoying it... thanks and appreciate all your responses... :D

Felix2010
2008.02.28, 03:29 AM
@ruf - I was browsing the "Ask Kyosho" thread titled *Sneek Peek* MR02LM 2.4gHz system and saw that you posted this:
"Fet-to-fet, most people prefer the driveability of the 3010 to the 4562. The 3010 double stack that comes with the 2.4GHz board would be my configuration of choice."
I too am a fan of the 3010 double stack that comes on the AD and ASF PCBs.
I would very much appreciate your input on what to do when it comes to MR02 (2WD-only) Modified-Class racing where the required motor could be the Chili or the Anima II - What would be your FET-configuration of choice?
rharris and Yasuji both said they had bad results with stock AD-PCB Fet setup with these two motors.
Thank you for the info:D

2EZ
2008.02.28, 09:58 AM
Just love the way you fast guys share information, as I have limited resources to test and find the best match for my cars and my driving I will keep reading and working on geting good results for this average Z driver. One of the hardest things to do is accept that a car that is 2fast is slower even when that is proven at the track. thanks again for sharing information I will use what I learn and share when I can. This type of interchange is good for the Miniz hobby.

yasuji
2008.03.02, 01:34 AM
got the upgrade on my 2.4 car done today by PN......i was gonna shelve it till the module came out for the ko radios ....but rc kenon has the kt 18 in stock so i said w.t.h........so i bought one just to try out the upgraded board......:D
:eek:UNREAL!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
I had been driving my a$$ off all day setting the lap record...then philip lowered it .....then i lowered it again......8.532 sec....not bad for the layout.....
so i take all of my ad pan car and transplant it all on to my new pn upgraded 2.4 chassis ...
im thinking that if i get within .3 sec a lap ill be happy........:o.....
not only did i get within .3 of the lap record but i lowered it another .2sec...:D
i really like the kt 18.....it has alll the same perks that i use on my ex1-ur....
except for that annoying reverse delay.....

rharris
2008.03.02, 01:52 AM
Hey Grant, did you stack the fets? Or did you go single 113's?

you are rite, the only thing bad about the 2.4 is reverse. I was racing Philip in stock on Friday night and beat him for the first time in history. I had a speed07 comparied to his 70 turn stock, so I had the unfair advantage. But even with the advantage he usualy beats me. I got him becouse he was still trying to get used to reverse on the 2.4.

I was messing with it all day today. Once you get the hang of it, it's not that bad, but it would be cool if you could dial down the .2 to .0 using ICS.

BTW, 8.5 is smoking for that track.

yasuji
2008.03.02, 02:12 AM
Hey Grant, did you stack the fets? Or did you go single 113's?

you are rite, the only thing bad about the 2.4 is reverse. I was racing Philip in stock on Friday night and beat him for the first time in history. I had a speed07 comparied to his 70 turn stock, so I had the unfair advantage. But even with the advantage he usualy beats me. I got him becouse he was still trying to get used to reverse on the 2.4.

I was messing with it all day today. Once you get the hang of it, it's not that bad, but it would be cool if you could dial down the .2 to .0 using ICS.

BTW, 8.5 is smoking for that track.
single stack.....2x2....been good for me lately
the new lap record is now 8.3:D with the kt 18

rharris
2008.03.02, 02:34 AM
single stack.....2x2....been good for me lately
the new lap record is now 8.3:D with the kt 18

Ya had to say it.... Just when I was feeling all warm and fuzzy about my 9.1... :p

The KT 18 is a much better radio then I expected. They did a really good job of covering all the bases this time.

Did you upgrade the wheel like Philip?

yasuji
2008.03.02, 02:42 AM
Ya had to say it.... Just when I was feeling all warm and fuzzy about my 9.1... :p

The KT 18 is a much better radio then I expected. They did a really good job of covering all the bases this time.

Did you upgrade the wheel like Philip?

i just took the one off my ex1......im gonna sell one of my ex1 ur....u want it?:D

rharris
2008.03.02, 02:55 AM
no, I'm keeping my helios. But I don't think I'm going to upgrade my son. I think he'll be just fine with the kt 18.

Felix2010
2008.03.02, 11:00 AM
@Yasuji - Those PN ANo113 Fets seem like the way to go. I'd love to keep my ASF MR02 stock but if I want to run a motor like an Anima II I need to upgrade to a better Fet than the 3010's. I've seen a post by someone who said he's yet to fry a stock AD board with any PN or Atomic motor, even an ANIMA or a Chili, but I am known to mash the throttle pretty good...:D
Looks like I'ma be getting a 2x2 AN0113 (4 total) Fet job on my ASF car. Thanks Yasuji & rharris for ALL the great tips and info you post on the forum by the way.:D

kryten
2008.05.12, 06:46 PM
I have an atomic chili i'd like to run on my asf open mr02,would a 2x2(4 fets total) of 4562's run that without any problems? As i already have some and don't really want to have to buy more!

Tjay
2008.05.12, 07:00 PM
I have an atomic chili i'd like to run on my asf open mr02,would a 2x2(4 fets total) of 4562's run that without any problems? As i already have some and don't really want to have to buy more!

It shouldn't give you any prob but I tell ya it would be crazy fast!

kryten
2008.05.12, 07:23 PM
I'm thinking that from what i've read (and i'm not the best driver either:D),maybe i'd be better off leaving it stock and using a stock r?

bmxtrev
2008.05.12, 08:49 PM
hey guys, do you think that the 2.4 is a better upgrade than spending that money towards upgrades for an AM [old mr02]?

herman
2008.05.12, 09:32 PM
sorry to be off topic....
hey guys, do you think that the 2.4 is a better upgrade than spending that money towards upgrades for an AM [old mr02]?
in my opinion... the 2.4ghz asf is the way to go...
here's my review...
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27597&highlight=2.4ghz+review
http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19022

posted by old crow http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28188

Got a chance to run my AWD ASF this weekend, very, very impressed. The steering was the best in a AWD I've ever used. The response was the most impressive, with steering and throttle control. I felt, and my friend who I let drive it, thought it to be noticeably faster response compared to AM. Also where we drive is notorious for glitching, no problems at all, crystal clear reception. The X-Speed AWD ASF was what you would expect, smooth and fast. Motor does get much warmer then I've experianced in the past. Run time seem to be about what I know it to be with the AM boards. Was using KT-18 radio, very light, and suprisingly, not a bad feel(did not think I would like using it at all), still can't wait for the KO ASF Module.

herman
2008.05.12, 09:37 PM
I'm thinking that from what i've read (and i'm not the best driver either),maybe i'd be better off leaving it stock and using a stock r?
i've tried tj's 2.4 ghz car - stock with stock r motor on a rcp track equivalent to 2 wide l's and 3 wide ovals (it had a 13 meter back straightaway)... and it was a handfull... pretty fast, almost crazy fast... :D

Kamer
2008.05.15, 05:36 AM
I use a Chilli on my 2.4 AWD with original Fet,(3010) and didnt have any problems with heat so far.:D

Kamer

kryten
2008.05.15, 07:15 AM
Really? I thought the minimum fets for a chili was a 2x2 of 4562's? I was under the assumption that a chili would fry a 2x2 stack of 3010's?

mk2kompressor
2008.05.15, 09:06 AM
a 2x2 of 3010 will run the chile but prolonged use will damage them over time
especially in an awd

Kamer
2008.05.15, 01:45 PM
i guess it comes cause the fet's are 4x1 so the not heating up that much.

@mk2kompressor i running it since begin of march twich a week usuell and still nothing..//knock on wood :)


Kamer

Tjay
2008.05.15, 01:57 PM
I tried the chilli motor on my 2wd and awd 2.4ghz with stock 3010's. They work but the battery drains faster and there's no punch on the car. It almost feels like the car is on high gear but it's not. I swap the fets with 4562's and the car has gotten fast with better runtime and doesn't heat up the fets as much.

Herman: next year I'll let you run this awd, asf w/ 4562's and chilli motor. It is insane... on the straight it looks like it wants to fly :D.

mk2kompressor
2008.05.15, 03:48 PM
i guess it comes cause the fet's are 4x1 so the not heating up that much.

@mk2kompressor i running it since begin of march twich a week usuell and still nothing..//knock on wood :)


Kamer

exactly,they are not stacked ontop of each other so less heat build up,also no 2 motors are exactly the same,to be on the safe side go for higher current fets:)

herman
2008.05.15, 09:06 PM
Herman: next year I'll let you run this awd, asf w/ 4562's and chilli motor. It is insane... on the straight it looks like it wants to fly .

:D :D :D looking forward to it..

oif03vet
2008.07.10, 07:51 PM
Any updates as far as anyone using the 4562 fets? I just got the conversion board for my 2wd and am thinking about making the fet swap.

Flashsp-2
2008.07.10, 07:59 PM
@oif03vet--I'm not using 4562, but I did replace the stock FETs with SP8M4 on my ASF mr02 stock car. It's noticeably more punchy, while the throttle is still linear and controllable. Definitely a plus when running the PN 70t motor. Interesting tag by the way, I was in Saudi in 03 and Balad last year :eek:

Tjay
2008.07.11, 02:48 AM
Any updates as far as anyone using the 4562 fets? I just got the conversion board for my 2wd and am thinking about making the fet swap.

I'm running 4562's on my mr02 that I use with PN stock motor. Noticeable increase in speed/punch and is more efficient.

Cherub1m
2008.07.22, 11:43 AM
AWDs can be deceiving. You can get the power down, but if you overpower it, the car starts spinning the wheels without you really noticing. Just because all 4 wheels pull, it does not mean that they won't loose grip on the track. My choice here is a 2x2 stack of 4562's, sometimes, just a single 4562 on top of the stock 3010.


If I understand this correctly I could leave the stock fets on my 2.4 pcb and just add 4562 fets on top of the top stock 3010 fets? Will mixing these fet cause problems? Will this set up be able to handle a PN Anima II and a PN Xeric with no problems?

Hope the answer is yes, because I dont want to remove fets :D.

Also, I think the stock fets have enough punch. I just dont want to burn up anything if I have to run an Anima 2 or a Xeric.

Davey G
2008.07.22, 12:22 PM
Philip: The answer is YES. Cristian is correct, just put another layer of fets on top of your stock 2.4 double layer of 3010's and you'll be good to go!

mk2kompressor
2008.07.22, 12:58 PM
ive just put an extra layer of 3010 on top of the originals,it feels good so far with the pn stock motor:)

Cherub1m
2008.07.22, 03:21 PM
Philip: The answer is YES. Cristian is correct, just put another layer of fets on top of your stock 2.4 double layer of 3010's and you'll be good to go!

Great, thanks Dave.

oif03vet
2008.07.23, 10:57 PM
Flash, my LAR unit was attached to 1st Marine Division, we spent some time in Kuwait before the war started and then ran the guantlet throughout Iraq from the first day of the war until September. Fun times!

fraga
2011.02.21, 11:03 PM
So if I understand this correctly, you guys added only 1 layer of FETs to the top FETs, for a total of 6 FETs, 4 on top and 2 on the bottom. Did I got this right?

Cherub1m
2011.02.21, 11:26 PM
So if I understand this correctly, you guys added only 1 layer of FETs to the top FETs, for a total of 6 FETs, 4 on top and 2 on the bottom. Did I got this right?

Nah, 8 fets total, 2 on top of the 2 stock fets and 2 on bottom on top of the bottom 2 stock fets for a total of 8 fets.

In the past I was removing the 4 stock fets and adding a 4 new high powered fet like the 8858 faichild fets but lately I've been just adding fets on top of the stock ones.

fraga
2011.02.22, 10:54 AM
Nah, 8 fets total, 2 on top of the 2 stock fets and 2 on bottom on top of the bottom 2 stock fets for a total of 8 fets.

In the past I was removing the 4 stock fets and adding a 4 new high powered fet like the 8858 faichild fets but lately I've been just adding fets on top of the stock ones.

Got it. Thanks Philip!

Would you run this setup (8 FETs) with a 70t? I been reading comments that a 70t runs faster with only 4 total FETs, but mine feels slower with 4 FETs than it did with my AM board that had 6 total FETs. That is why I was thinking of going with 6 total (only adding 1 layer to the top).

Cherub1m
2011.02.22, 04:15 PM
Got it. Thanks Philip!

Would you run this setup (8 FETs) with a 70t? I been reading comments that a 70t runs faster with only 4 total FETs, but mine feels slower with 4 FETs than it did with my AM board that had 6 total FETs. That is why I was thinking of going with 6 total (only adding 1 layer to the top).

I am no expert on fets but from what I notice (I didn't believe it would make a difference before since the 70T does not pull much amps) but 8 fets for a 70T motor made a noticeable difference for me at my home based mini 96. I haven't tested it out on a full size track at the LHS yet but soon will. Also, I've heard some racers for 2wd mod would only have a total of 6 fets because they felt 8 fets gave them to much punch for mod. For my AWD I just recently added 4 more fets for a total of 8 fets because I like punch with the AWD(I hope I like it haven't tested it in a full track yet). For my 2wd Mod cars all have only 4 8858 fets except for one that has 4 3010 fets and 4 8858 fets (total 8 fets) that has not been tested on a full size track also so I am just waiting to see if the punch is going to be to much or just fine. In short this week is going to be a test and tune day for me, I'll let you know what happens.

danjoyy25
2012.08.24, 06:04 PM
Just finished changing the original 3010 fets on my Mr03 with a double stacked 4562 fets just on the top side, so 4 in total. Everything works and can feel the difference but having said that I think I nearly broke the PCB so I won't be game enought to take original FETS again anytime soon as I still have an F1 and AWD to do. :eek:

I have read other post were people stack on top of OEM fets so just want
to find out if its the same process as I think for me its alot easier to do as Im not taking the risk of ruining the board.

Can I just put a single/double stacked 4562 of top of the 3010 fet and solder the input side pins individually and on the output side solder all 4 pins together???