PDA

View Full Version : *** Reverse ***


Tim Johnson
2008.03.01, 02:38 AM
A tip for those that have a problem getting into reverse. :)

The new 2.4ghz cars have been programmed with a .2 second reverse lock out.

To get the car to go into reverse; from neutral tap full reverse with the trigger. Let the trigger go back to neutral. Then slowly go into reverse like normal.

A TIP FROM herman
just took a picture a bit easier for me to do...:D (it was a bit of a drag having to download the pdf file...)
note: found this in the mr02lm manual and not the kt-18 manual... kinda weird... i think there were some stuff in the mr02ml manual that should be in the kt-18 manual, and some things in the kt-18 that should be in the mr02lm manual (just my opinion)...

anyway here ya go... just looks kinda intimidating with all the instructions in different languages... but it's just really 3 simple steps - as i simplified in my first post...:D
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_0420.jpg

Racer-HH
2008.03.01, 08:37 AM
Is it possible, to change this programming? Feels kind of weird in comparison to normal AM Mini-Z.
Do you know, which ICS adapter is necessary for programming?

Racer

pfcparts
2008.03.01, 02:38 PM
Looks like it'll have it's own specific connector.

I think the controller has to be reset first. Mine came with some weird endpoints and throttle points and the reverse was horrible. Tried to fix it myself through individually going through each, but just resetting it made it easier lol. After resetting it properly, the brake and reverse time is manageable... To a degree lol.

I assumed you had to be at full stop, then wait for .2 and then reverse... when it rolls forward, doesn't the nuetral time ramp up?

parts

rharris
2008.03.02, 01:45 AM
Reverse works just like the AM module. You have to hit the brake, then let off, then go into reverse. The only trick is, you have to hold the break in full stop for .2 seconds. It takes some getting used to. It's doable, but we are all hopeful that the setting on the car can be changed with the ICS link. We'll have to wait and see.

On a very, very positive note: This thing is glitch free! We had one running in a stock class. It was odd to see the little kt-18 on the drivers stand with PK3's, Helios, EX-U1's, and M11's. All that expensive hardware and the only one not glitching was the Kt-18.

At our track, even AD bands have been known to glitch when there is a full line up.

I can't wait for the Helios module.

yasuji
2008.03.02, 02:44 AM
is this proablem in the radio or the board?

rharris
2008.03.02, 02:52 AM
Tim told me he thinks it's programed into the board.

yasuji
2008.03.02, 02:54 AM
Tim told me he thinks it's programed into the board.

i hope it can be changed......it cost me 4 seconds a lap if i hit the wall.....thats half a lap:confused:
i think i will race the rcx race with this radio if this proablem can be fixed....

rharris
2008.03.02, 03:04 AM
The thing is, you'll need the new software for the ICS, and haven't heard a peep out of anyone about when it will be available.

Still, with all the radio noise going on at RCX, it may be worth it to run the 2.4 anyway.

EMU
2008.03.02, 08:11 AM
I noticed that you cannot engage reverse if steering input is applied. Do you notice the same with your cars? If you have no steering input, engage reverse then you can steer and it works fine.

Totally glitch free!!! Kinda bugged me out, since theres sections of the track that I ALLWAYS get a slight jolt, and I have kind of developed certain lines to anticipate them. My

pfcparts
2008.03.02, 06:14 PM
I had that problem before I reset the tx correctly. Now steering input can be put in with no issues while reversing. Resetting should be the first thing done after pairing imo.

I had a few issues in resetting, as everything went in reverse after a few different resets lol. When it finally was done right, issues went away.

For reversing, I actually do a full stop, pull my finger away then click the trigger into the controller (full reverse) pull away again, and then go into reverse. Works perfectly every time and is pretty short... I think lol.

parts

xxam
2008.03.02, 07:31 PM
It just doesnt make any sense to have changed the reversing. 3 guys today alone, wrapped up their 2.4's and perfex (anti-reverse) transmitters and swore them off forever in racing. It certainly puts fear in you to crash and need to reverse. Its just not intuitive or consistant.

I akso dont think ICS will help, I know you cant use the AD band software or wiring , but there is nothing in that ICS software related to braking in any way. There is no logic to adding a lock out to the 2.4, unless it was necessary , thus (IMO) probably no way to remove it.

Its certainly doable to use it in a race environment, but the advantage goes to all other models before the 2.4. :eek:

Bad move Kyosho :mad:

Tim Johnson
2008.03.02, 08:29 PM
Let me not be PC here for a sec.... Don't crash. :)

ok...back to PC......

the purpose of the reverse delay is to allow you to play with breaking more. You have a better range of breaking, as well as reverse not kicking in when you let off the breaks, and get back into them.

Now, to activate reverse quickly, Follow the tip I posted on the first post. That will help you tramendously. If I don't explain it well enough in my first post, let me know guys. I will post a video to help explain better. :)

It will take a bit of time to get used to the new reverse activation. I know it will take me some time :)

bermbuster
2008.03.02, 09:24 PM
Let me not be PC here for a sec.... Don't crash. :)

ok...back to PC......

the purpose of the reverse delay is to allow you to play with breaking more. You have a better range of breaking, as well as reverse not kicking in when you let off the breaks, and get back into them.

Now, to activate reverse quickly, Follow the tip I posted on the first post. That will help you tramendously. If I don't explain it well enough in my first post, let me know guys. I will post a video to help explain better. :)

It will take a bit of time to get used to the new reverse activation. I know it will take me some time :)

Let me become LC
it is braking.... not breaking(unless you cannot brake properly)
the reality is it is "new" and give it a chance. Everyone is used to doing things a certian way (safety zone) move out of it and learn how to do something new and you may be surprised......
Any of the Cruizin guys want to sell there 2.4s im interested......

herman
2008.03.02, 09:46 PM
big thanks to tim for helping address the "reverse" issue... haven't tried your tip just yet though... :D

hmm... i've also noticed that you can't go into reverse if your wheels aren't straight (neutral - no steering input) :(

xxam
2008.03.02, 09:56 PM
I think my crash counts have been reduced just due to fear of having to reverse. :) That may be good, if I can continue to do it when I pick my speed back up. However, crashes are not always self inflicted.

I can use the reverse with not much problem using Tims tip and some practice. However, during a race, all motions speed up, and you tend to beat the delay with your finger stroke, and thus no reverse... and many times with the field nearing at race speed, eeeekk. As with anything new, you should always give it a chance, god knows Im old enough to have learned that!
I have raced it for several hours, (in simulated racing, with 3 and 4 others) and I still miss getting the new reversing technique, more than I make it. My car has been exposed to injury, and my race position lost.
I already use braking often in my race style, (adjusted in my 3pk) and that has never been an issue with my 02MM nor is it now with the 2.4 model 02LM. No change there that I can see, except the perfex can adjust braking, wheras the old stock controller couldnt.

??Tim how does the LM allow me to play with braking, that is different over my MM ??

There are also many drivers that become frustrated sooner than others, and they just close the door and move back to their 02, etc. However, Ill ask those who were annoyed if they want to sell them :) . I think they want them, just never to race, thus my original post title. I speak only for myself, and not for cruizin.

Berm.. have you raced yours yet?

Tim Johnson
2008.03.02, 10:19 PM
Let me become LC
it is braking.... not breaking(unless you cannot brake properly)
the reality is it is "new" and give it a chance. Everyone is used to doing things a certian way (safety zone) move out of it and learn how to do something new and you may be surprised......
Any of the Cruizin guys want to sell there 2.4s im interested......

LOL...When you post quickly things like that tend to come about.....

Felix2010
2008.03.02, 11:15 PM
Tim, I have been using your advice and reverse is becoming more smooth as I practice. Thanks for the tip. :)

MikeL
2008.03.03, 11:29 AM
Mini-z is the only r/c racing that I have done that even allows reverse, it really should be banned, I know I have been taken out of an ill timed reverse, as well as occasionally accidentally doing the same to others.

xxam
2008.03.03, 12:59 PM
Tim how does the LM allow me to play with braking, that is different
over my MM ??

Berm.. have you raced yours yet?

I think my crash counts have been reduced just due to fear of having to reverse. :) That may be good, if I can continue to do it when I pick my speed back up. However, crashes are not always self inflicted.

I can use the reverse with not much problem using Tims tip and some practice. However, during a race, all motions speed up, and you tend to beat the delay with your finger stroke, and thus no reverse... and many times with the field nearing at race speed, eeeekk. As with anything new, you should always give it a chance, god knows Im old enough to have learned that!
I have raced it for several hours, (in simulated racing, with 3 and 4 others) and I still miss getting the new reversing technique, more than I make it. My car has been exposed to injury, and my race position lost.
I already use braking often in my race style, (adjusted in my 3pk) and that has never been an issue with my 02MM nor is it now with the 2.4 model 02LM. No change there that I can see, except the perfex can adjust braking, wheras the old stock controller couldnt.

??Tim how does the LM allow me to play with braking, that is different over my MM ??

There are also many drivers that become frustrated sooner than others, and they just close the door and move back to their 02, etc. However, Ill ask those who were annoyed if they want to sell them :) . I think they want them, just never to race, thus my original post title. I speak only for myself, and not for cruizin.

Berm.. have you raced yours yet?

EMU
2008.03.03, 01:13 PM
The main problem I have with this reverse delay, is that right now the 2.4ghz is not permitted in many stock classes, so it must be run in modified class. If you get into the board, near an apex. You will get plowed into long before you can get to reverse off the line. There are many drivers that cannot look far enough ahead on the track especially when running a modified car to be able to see you stuck and go around.

Also many races are determined by fractions of a second. Comparatively to all of the other electronics, the 2.4 is now at a severe disadvantage. I can understand why Kyosho decided to do that, however, I hope that it is a feature that can be switched off. This should have been an option, not the standard.

I believe what Tim is referring to as Play with braking... is that you can brake>coast>brake. Which on other boards, would cause you to enter reverse. This should been an option. I know that I dont use brakes that much. And I honestly dont know anyone that does. The way that the brake feature has been ever since it was introduced, has been perfect.

I understand that many other scales do not allow reverse, Mini-Z do reverse... and to have one that should be very competetive, have a delayed reverse, that you have to sit on the track still for half a second, sometimes more... is not a good thing.

Tim Johnson
2008.03.03, 01:30 PM
I noticed that you cannot engage reverse if steering input is applied. Do you notice the same with your cars?

Actualy you can go into reverse when you apply steering.


EMU is correct on his statement about braking. :)



I understand that many other scales do not allow reverse, Mini-Z do reverse... and to have one that should be very competetive, have a delayed reverse, that you have to sit on the track still for half a second, sometimes more... is not a good thing.

Once you get down the reverse procedure, it will not take any longer than a 27mhz board to go into reverse. And even with 27mhz, I have experienced the car not wanting to go into reverse right away.

It will take time for most to adjust, and those that do, will have the advantage. :)

bermbuster
2008.03.03, 02:43 PM
right now the 2.4 platform is new and the amount of them in a class may be few.....once you have a class of them then everybody will be on a level playing field.....Maybe taking a long time to reverse will in the long run make you a better driver....

I didnt race mine yet because I didnt recieve it yet.....and right now I am trying to focus on my skills for the Atomic Race....I do want the 2.4 and can't wait to race it....against a field of similar cars...

benmlee
2008.03.03, 04:20 PM
A good feature of the reverse delay is that now you can use ABS brake function on those high end transmitters. The ABS function pulse the brakes like on a real car. Except with the old mini-z board, the pulse made the car go into reverse. Now with the delay, you can actually use the ABS function to get better braking.
When I drove the 2.4 for a little while, it was difficult to go into reverse. There are so many variation on how to go into reverse, we need to figure out exactly what the programing logic is to get into reverse. The manual said to hit reverse like normal, then stay in neutral for .2 sec and go reverse again. I don't think that is how the board behaves. .2 sec is very short, I can't believe people can beat .2 sec with their figure. The manual must be wrong then. Another version is you have to hit reverse very fast. Then some say you have to hold reverse for 1 sec. Other say you have to go full reverse to trip the reverse lockout. It would be nice to get the real story, then people can come up with their own techniques accommodate the lockout.

Tim Johnson
2008.03.03, 04:36 PM
Take a look at my first post in this thread. That is how you get into reverse. :)

EMU
2008.03.03, 07:48 PM
right now the 2.4 platform is new and the amount of them in a class may be few.....once you have a class of them then everybody will be on a level playing field.....Maybe taking a long time to reverse will in the long run make you a better driver....

I didnt race mine yet because I didnt recieve it yet.....and right now I am trying to focus on my skills for the Atomic Race....I do want the 2.4 and can't wait to race it....against a field of similar cars...

I am trying to decide whether to build up my 2.4 or an Ad-Band setup for the mod 2wd class for the Atomic regional. Right now I am leaning to Ad, but I will continue to test the car during practice and see what feels better come the race. Both cars should be equally fast, I would just choose the car that is more comfortable.

I had difficulty entering reverse a few times, even after driving it two days in a row. Sometimes I would have to fwd throttle a little the break, pause then reverse.

I am not giving up on the 2.4, I believe if the glitches (so to speak) are worked out, this will be the electronics of the future. I dont see any reason to run any AM cars anymore.

rharris
2008.03.03, 09:05 PM
Reverse works exactly like the AM and AD modules. The trick is to adjust your throttle trim correctly.

Put the car on a block, turn everything on, then click down on the throttle trim until the wheel starts to go in reverse. Then click up once.

Now try reverse. Keep fiddling with this adjustment till it works like you would expect.

I think this is just one of them times where we don't trust something because it's new. So we forget to trouble shoot the obvious.

xxam
2008.03.03, 09:31 PM
nice...works like a charm. Cant wait to try it on the track. When in doubt, go back to basics... shoulda woulda, didnt.

Thanks for posting

Felix2010
2008.03.03, 09:55 PM
Reverse works exactly like the AM and AD modules. The trick is to adjust your throttle trim correctly.

Put the car on a block, turn everything on, then click down on the throttle trim until the wheel starts to go in reverse. Then click up once.

Now try reverse. Keep fiddling with this adjustment till it works like you would expect.

I think this is just one of them times where we don't trust something because it's new. So we forget to trouble shoot the obvious.

Thanks rharris for the tip:D

herman
2008.03.04, 02:30 AM
The trick is to adjust your throttle trim correctly.
tried the tip tim gave and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't...
going to try rharris' tip soon... i have a feeling it will work... it will be great news if it does.... :D :D

herman
2008.03.04, 10:59 AM
hi folks
was a bit disappointed in the reverse function on the 2.4asf chassis... having slight delays, sometimes not even engaging into reverse...

after trying out tim johnson & rharris' tips, i still had some reverse issues...

so i resorted to reading the mr02lm manual.... hehe

p24 gives it all... (i summarized it into 3 simple) steps:

1. basically raise your car off the ground (so it doesn't run off unsuspectedly) fiddle around with the throttle trim (press A/up) till the wheels start moving forward

2. then adjust throttle trim (press B/down) till the wheels stop, then press B a few more times until beeping sound from the chassis stops

3. finally press B 8 more times (might be 7,8,9 or more - i guess 8 is more or less the benchmark)

reverse should work a lot better now. almost like the am mr02 chassis...

you can use this method if your car is initially going in reverse - just press A till it goes forward. then go through the whole process again...

if it still doesn't work, try to reset the transmitter

hope this helps :D

arch2b
2008.03.04, 11:30 AM
thats the same answer given in the previous post bascially.
thank you for posting that the information is indeed included in the manual.:) is it possible to split that page out to attach to this post? not sure how locked pdf's work when trying to print a page out or remove a page?

amazing what you find when you read the manual;)

existing threads on the subject
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27704

also being discussed here
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27735&highlight=reverse

lets try to avoid mutiple threads on the same topic if possible. jsut amkes it hard to tell people where to look or event find the answer. tim can repost a stick if he needs with the manual info if we can split it out.

herman
2008.03.05, 12:33 AM
is it possible to split that page out to attach to this post? is it possible to split that page out to attach to this post? not sure how locked pdf's work when trying to print a page out or remove a page?
just took a picture a bit easier for me to do...:D (it was a bit of a drag having to download the pdf file...)
note: found this in the mr02lm manual and not the kt-18 manual... kinda weird... i think there were some stuff in the mr02ml manual that should be in the kt-18 manual, and some things in the kt-18 that should be in the mr02lm manual (just my opinion)...

anyway here ya go... just looks kinda intimidating with all the instructions in different languages... but it's just really 3 simple steps - as i simplified in my first post...:D
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s11/hmc_jr/porsche%20962/IMG_0420.jpg

thats the same answer given in the previous post bascially.
i guess the real key here is pressing b (down) eight (8) more times after the wheels stop moving, and the beeping from the chassis stops...

amazing what you find when you read the manual
right you are... right you are.... :D

lets try to avoid mutiple threads on the same topic if possible. jsut amkes it hard to tell people where to look or event find the answer. tim can repost a stick if he needs with the manual info if we can split it out.
okki dokki... i kinda agree with you on this one... you got my permission to lock this post up... will post a link to this thread on the ***Reverse*** post-http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27704

really hope this helps.... :D

herman
2008.03.05, 12:44 AM
Reverse works exactly like the AM and AD modules. The trick is to adjust your throttle trim correctly.

i'm with rharris on this one... adjust your throttle trim correctly...
when all else fails... read the manual... hehehehe :D

the manual will tell you how to adjust your throttle trim correctly...
click the link below.... :D

hope this will finally end all reverse issues... :D

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27750

Tim Johnson
2008.03.05, 12:29 PM
I added your tip to my first post, that way people do not have to sift through pages posts.

bermbuster
2008.03.05, 03:50 PM
I got mine yesterday and im really liking it....btw i read the instructions....
I like the training mode.....:D

benmlee
2008.03.09, 01:22 AM
Hopefully, I am not beating this thing to death. First thing to solve the reverse problem is to make sure the throttle trim is correct.

On the bench, I can get the car to go into reverse ten out of ten times just like the old board with no problem. However, once in a race and pressure is on, sometime the car would not go into reverse even after hitting reverse and wait 1 second before going to reverse again. Saw Rod at the last race. He would loose a lap trying to get the car to go into reverse even with the proper throttle trim. Had to spend an hour playing with the reverse trying to figure out what was going on.

Here is the conclusion and the second point. The throttle on the new transmitter is so sensitive that when you hit reverse and go back to neutral, is easy to overshoot and touch forward just slightly. That is all it takes is a slight forward to cancel the reverse. Mean while, you wait one second and go into reverse, nothing happens. When pressure is on, you hit reverse quickly and wait another second. Nothing happens again. The cycle continues. Simple experiment to prove it is to do half or even a third brake, then let the throttle spring back to neutral by itself. You will see that the throttle overshoots, and the car will lurch forward slightly. The same thing never happens on KT-5. Maybe because this radio is digital, and is so fast that the receiver catches even that millisecond of forward command. This radio performs too well for its own good :)

The key to going into reverse consistently is for the first reverse, bring back the throttle carefully and slow enough so you do not overshoot neutral. Then don't forget to wait half a second before doing reverse again. .2 second is a little too soon, .5 second will assure you always get reverse. Takes a little practice, but you can go into reverse almost as fast as a normal board consistently.

EMU
2008.03.09, 03:14 AM
I have noticed that both the steering and throttle are a little too springy. They do not recenter enough (bounce around if you let it recenter by itself). Changing the steering wheel to the EX-1 wheel makes a big difference, both in feel and in the steering centering since the wheel is much lighter. Could be possible to dampen the throttle with high viscosity grease, so when you release the brake, it doesnt overshoot the neutral zone and register as fwd throttle.

As stated above, when you enter reverse, do not have any steering input until after you have entered reverse, then you can steer. The more I play with it, the more I like the transmitter. However, I do not think I will ever like it as much as my Helios as far as feel is concerned. I just cant adjust to the springy and toy like feeling.

herman
2008.03.10, 04:57 AM
Takes a little practice, but you can go into reverse almost as fast as a normal board consistently.
yes that's true... remember the last step is to press b 8 more times when the beeping stops...

try pressing it one or two more times... don't know if it's just me, but i feel it engages reverse a bit more faster... :D

Spoon
2008.03.10, 08:57 AM
Hopefully, I am not beating this thing to death. First thing to solve the reverse problem is to make sure the throttle trim is correct.

On the bench, I can get the car to go into reverse ten out of ten times just like the old board with no problem. However, once in a race and pressure is on, sometime the car would not go into reverse even after hitting reverse and wait 1 second before going to reverse again. Saw Rod at the last race. He would loose a lap trying to get the car to go into reverse even with the proper throttle trim. Had to spend an hour playing with the reverse trying to figure out what was going on.

Here is the conclusion and the second point. The throttle on the new transmitter is so sensitive that when you hit reverse and go back to neutral, is easy to overshoot and touch forward just slightly. That is all it takes is a slight forward to cancel the reverse. Mean while, you wait one second and go into reverse, nothing happens. When pressure is on, you hit reverse quickly and wait another second. Nothing happens again. The cycle continues. Simple experiment to prove it is to do half or even a third brake, then let the throttle spring back to neutral by itself. You will see that the throttle overshoots, and the car will lurch forward slightly. The same thing never happens on KT-5. Maybe because this radio is digital, and is so fast that the receiver catches even that millisecond of forward command. This radio performs too well for its own good :)

The key to going into reverse consistently is for the first reverse, bring back the throttle carefully and slow enough so you do not overshoot neutral. Then don't forget to wait half a second before doing reverse again. .2 second is a little too soon, .5 second will assure you always get reverse. Takes a little practice, but you can go into reverse almost as fast as a normal board consistently.

Ben,

I think you've hit on something here...EMU touched on it too. The TX is a little too springy. When I first got my car it took me a second to realize that the "jitter" in the steering was actually the TX bouncing back and forth. Also, the trigger space is a lot smaller than I am used to so it's tough to let it get back to neutral. Just gotta practice I guess.

benmlee
2008.03.11, 01:46 AM
I tried using damping grease on the throttle. Just the way the centering mechanism works, is not very effective. It got a little better, but did not cure it. Besides, is one way to guarantee Tim will void your warranty, so make sure you don't have a bad transmitter before you begin.

There are a total of 17 clicks on the trim button in the neutral zone. 8 clicks back from start of forward like herman said would set the throttle right smack in the middle.
You can even go maybe 15 clicks back from forward so there is more room to prevent overshoot when trying to stop at neutral. However, the down side is you have to pull the throttle more to get thru the neutral zone to go forward. This means there is less travel left over in the forward range. You can still set the end point so you get full throttle with less throttle travel. However, that makes for less precise throttle action.
Is a compromise. You want easier reverse or more precise forward throttle. Herman is right, set at 8 click back for compromise.

herman
2008.03.11, 03:12 AM
Herman is right, set at 8 click back for compromise.
just stating what manual says... and probably 1 or 2 clicks more if you want to engage reverse a bit faster... :D

marc
2008.03.17, 06:30 PM
Hey Tim, will there be more LeMan's styled bodies released in the future? I'd like to see one of the 1967 Ferrari LeMan's car, I forget the number of it, but it's a beautiful racer. If I can find a plastic model kit of it again, I may adapt one to the Z. We would like to see many more LeMan's style cars coming out. Kind of boring to just race a white Porsche 962 with a black 962. Need more variety. I love the car!


read the title of this thread please..... please take a moment to realize where you are posting before you post. this has absolutely nohting to do with the reverse function, nor is this the ask kyosho subforum.

imxlr8ed
2008.03.18, 02:01 PM
As of now... here's my throttle settings:

Overall Throttle Trim: 5 beeps down from center

Forward Throttle Trim: 1 beep down from top setting

Reverse Throttle/Brake Trim: 4 beeps up from bottom setting

Now, it's really strange here. I can go directly from forward to reverse if I just feather it back and forth. If I floor it... sometimes I can get it to go right into reverse but mostly there's that 0.2sec wait. Majority of the time, if I clip a wall while racing I can just go right into reverse. This may vbe because I'm off-throttle when I clip apexes and it is ready to go inot reverse when I hit. I will say this though... there are some strange things that seem to get crazy when messing with the reverse/brake trim.

I'm going to try to get a video up on the tube sometime soon...

imxlr8ed
2008.03.18, 03:46 PM
Here's the video... not the most exciting video, but yes... it is going right into reverse when throttle is feathered as long as I have the settings I posted in the radio...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB8O65QP4zU

Obviously it doesn't happen when the throttle is returning from full throttle. If I am only on like 3/4 throttle, it'll kick right into reverse. This is just as good, if not better than my previous AM cars.

yasuji
2008.03.22, 04:35 AM
[QUOTE=Tim Johnson;292638]Let me not be PC here for a sec.... Don't crash. :)

chalk one up for the kt -18 2.4 mod pan car:D i got my first win with it tonight
tonight i finally figured out how to set up the kt -18 to suit my driving style as well as ( using tims advice )getting the reverse to work better than its ever been.....DONT CRASH!!! i think that it is a 2 way street.....it sux when u cant get out of the way when u snag a wall.....but i can tell you this much .....thanks to the kt-18....i have had to step up my game and be more consistent.. there for i think that ,at the verry least, the kt-18 with the reverse delay is a verrrrry good training tool!:D

bermbuster
2008.03.22, 08:35 AM
[QUOTE=Tim Johnson;292638]Let me not be PC here for a sec.... Don't crash. :)

chalk one up for the kt -18 2.4 mod pan car:D i got my first win with it tonight
tonight i finally figured out how to set up the kt -18 to suit my driving style as well as ( using tims advice )getting the reverse to work better than its ever been.....DONT CRASH!!! i think that it is a 2 way street.....it sux when u cant get out of the way when u snag a wall.....but i can tell you this much .....thanks to the kt-18....i have had to step up my game and be more consistent.. there for i think that ,at the verry least, the kt-18 with the reverse delay is a verrrrry good training tool!:D

You looked pretty good with the car on Tuesday night too...:D

Tjay
2008.03.30, 01:08 PM
reverse is cool during practicing but during race is different story...

marc
2008.03.30, 07:07 PM
I noticed driving my friend's 2.4, that sometimes reverse work's intstantly, and other times there's that delay. I guess it's just how I apply throttle, brake, etc.

Drew_Cat
2008.04.03, 10:27 AM
I added your tip to my first post, that way people do not have to sift through pages posts.

Hi Tim, will the Helious Module from KO for the ASF band be able to program out the 2 sec. reverse lockout delay?

ub0211042
2008.05.19, 02:05 AM
i'm using the 2.4ghz Module on EX10 but nothing seems to program out the 0.2 sec delay. Will try the throttle trim later and let u guys know...

Tjay
2008.05.19, 01:16 PM
I doubt you can by pass it by programing your tx... I actually like it now, especially good for those who rushes to back up without looking... wait till it's clear then reverse folks ;)!

ub0211042
2008.05.19, 02:51 PM
with Helios u will still need to wait for the 0.2 second, tried the forward and brake throttle trim...it only improves a bit

Flashsp-2
2008.05.19, 06:13 PM
The ICS is likely the only way to program the delay out of the board. I like TJs thinking, you have to wait instead of just hammering into reverse and wrecking somebody else.

Aurora
2008.05.20, 04:07 AM
I think this delay in reverse goes both ways, like many other have said. One fact is it makes you a more careful driver and will force you to concentrate to make a perfect run. But the downside is sometimes it might not be your problem on track during race, and it does seem to hurt the performance.

I had been testing and using my 2.4G fetted AWD with my EX1 UR, and so far the experience has been satisfying, except this 'delay reverse' has significantly hurt the lap count/time.

I do suggest new user to adjust their Tx VR for both throttle and steering(when trimmed at zero), then like rharris said, to adjust the trimming to allow more easy braking/reverse. Personally, I feel the new Ex1 UR do has a lighter trigger than Ex10, and it seems to have a more define and precise 'range' for neutral.

So to counter the delay, what I did is simply trim forward a little bit on UR, so to offset the trigger overshoot during a 'braking/reverse'.

Another way is like the good ol' trick of using the 'thumb' brake, where you setup the 'Idleup' at the button on grip, and set it to a pre-defined brake value, so you could go reverse when pressing that button. Yet, still, you probably have to wait almost 1 sec, before the car will react to the button press.

Tjay
2008.05.20, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the input Aurora!

Since my UR's here, I started messing around with my Helio... During practice time I noticed that my awd is pretty smooth and it likes to coast but I coasts a little too much for my liking. Now, it feels like I'm off throttle 5 feet away from the turn... what I did was adjusted the throttle nuetral VR last night. I set the neutral to slight forward throttle. This was when I let off the throttle I can activate the ABS coming in on a turn... the down side though is the reverse. It activates on it own whiles slightly tapping on the forward throttle :(.

Although, I know using brake is not really a good/consistent way of driving but for some reason, my finger will slightly hit the brakes when I know I'm going to over shoot the turn. weird... I will then stop and looked at my throttle finger on the radio and then go,"wtf?!"...

kids don't try this at home :D.

mferrini
2008.05.20, 07:22 PM
...
I had been testing and using my 2.4G fetted AWD with my EX1 UR, and so far the experience has been satisfying, except this 'delay reverse' has significantly hurt the lap count/time.....

Do you have the 901SM module ? have you or someone else hear about transmission power troubles in this first units? I have one and I'm in doubt if I have a problematic one.

banquer
2008.06.01, 03:53 PM
Resuming all the post the question is.
Is the RA-18 receiver unit programmable the delay of the brake or not?
I've bought the ICS usb adapter and I have the program for ASF MiniZ and it have two new parameters.
One of the is Nutral (I think this is a bug and is Neutral) and the other one is V.Inertia.
The last one I think is motor-brake and is ver very usefull, but the "Nutral" one, have 3 values Narrow, mid and wide.
Are this values affecting the brake delay?
Thank Tim for your support.
Cheers from Spain.
http://www.rc-gojar-z.net

Aurora
2008.06.02, 01:53 AM
Do you have the 901SM module ? have you or someone else hear about transmission power troubles in this first units? I have one and I'm in doubt if I have a problematic one.

Hey, Mferrini.

I do have a the 901SM module, and had been running it on and off for a while, installed with higher grade fets, sometimes I do feel the car is as if 'on-switch', and right now I am still wondering whether it is simply a transition thing that I have to get use to (higher sensitive trigger or steering) or it has something to do with the new board design which higher number of stacked fets might potentially become even more counter productive (vs AD band).

This is the first time I hear about problematic units, and I shall keep my eyes opened. So far, I had one bad experience where component simply just 'ripped' off board by day-to-day installation (which was handled by a professional), and I had to resort to getting a new 2.4G board. Otherwise, I am still in transitional phrase, and my prime competition car remains my faithfully trusted AD band fetted car. :D

limbohz
2008.07.17, 09:02 AM
thanks for the tips guys.

now herman, can you translate that to KO EX-10 terms? :D i'm temporarily using that remote, coming from a 3PK, then i'll have to relearn a new controller again when i get my EX-1.

Tjay
2008.07.17, 01:33 PM
Makati time is 1:22am. He's probably sleeping :).

limbohz: your 3PK should be good for mini-z but since you already have the KO...

I can't remember if you have to reverse the th/st or leave it as it is. Just check.

First, flip the switch to HSR(?). There's a switch behind the tx where the module sits. Make sure you switch is upward. Then go to, "channel select" and use channel3.

Go to steering travel and put that out to 120.
Go to steering balance and turn your steering wheel max left and listen for that buzzing sound coming from the servo on the car. Lower down the Left balance # till the buzzing sound is gone. Do this to right side as well.
Lower high point to 70
Adjust th-curve to + for your liking.

Test the car on the track. If you think there's a lot of steering, lower down the travel to 100-110 till you get use to it. If more steering is needed, then you need to clean your front tires :D.

See you on Friday!

limbohz
2008.07.17, 02:38 PM
tj, thanks... i was actually wondering about this:

hi folks
was a bit disappointed in the reverse function on the 2.4asf chassis... having slight delays, sometimes not even engaging into reverse...

after trying out tim johnson & rharris' tips, i still had some reverse issues...

so i resorted to reading the mr02lm manual.... hehe

p24 gives it all... (i summarized it into 3 simple) steps:

1. basically raise your car off the ground (so it doesn't run off unsuspectedly) fiddle around with the throttle trim (press A/up) till the wheels start moving forward

2. then adjust throttle trim (press B/down) till the wheels stop, then press B a few more times until beeping sound from the chassis stops

3. finally press B 8 more times (might be 7,8,9 or more - i guess 8 is more or less the benchmark)

reverse should work a lot better now. almost like the am mr02 chassis...

you can use this method if your car is initially going in reverse - just press A till it goes forward. then go through the whole process again...

if it still doesn't work, try to reset the transmitter


is that "throttle curve" on the EX-10?

lol, nvm i found throttle trim. thanks!

Hood
2008.07.26, 12:03 PM
I was just playing with my new Module last night, and came up with a great setting for the ABS to quickly get reverse everytime.

I setup both my MR-02 and my F1 with the exact throttle reverse settings and both cars behaved perfectly..

I hope this helps someone..

SubTrim F30
Brake 50
Throttle Highpoint 40
SubTrim F30
TrimRate 10/10
ABS
Width 60
POS B20
Cycle 40
Delay 25
Duty - Normal Centered

infanterene
2008.08.01, 09:16 AM
I had to go four more clicks in the trim than the instructions suggest. Reverse is now acceptable.

briankstan
2008.08.08, 07:27 PM
I was just playing with my new Module last night, and came up with a great setting for the ABS to quickly get reverse everytime.

I setup both my MR-02 and my F1 with the exact throttle reverse settings and both cars behaved perfectly..

I hope this helps someone..

SubTrim F30
Brake 50
Throttle Highpoint 40
SubTrim F30
TrimRate 10/10
ABS
Width 60
POS B20
Cycle 40
Delay 25
Duty - Normal Centered

I used these settings, but the car will roll forward when turned on, it only stops if you put full reverse on, it won't go into reverse at all now..., it seems to be because of the subtrim set to F30....I can go as high as F3, but anything higer and I have no reverse at all.

any suggestions?

Tjay
2008.08.08, 07:49 PM
why do you guys do these settings? For faster reverse?

lfisminiz
2008.08.08, 09:48 PM
Brian - get a hold of hood. When i first tried it, it wasnt working right. I got all his settings for a base to start with and now is all GOOD.;) Thanks Hood.:)

Tjay - if done right, it seems that reverse works more like the AM board.

Tjay
2008.08.09, 05:23 AM
I have no problem with reverse... but if you can make it like the AM why not. Either way I'm happy.

Mr.Saturn
2008.09.12, 07:07 PM
I'm having a problem with my new 2.4 conversion that I don't think has been mentioned before. Sometimes when moving forward, then applying the brakes, the motor goes directly into reverse rather than braking. I have not reset the transmitter since I went through the binding procedures but will probably try this today. Has anyone else had this issue?

briankstan
2008.10.02, 04:59 PM
I'm still not happy with what I have for reverse. these are the settings that I got from Hood.


ET1 ST trim R3
ET2 TH trim 0
ET3 Brake 100
ET4 Travel 65
ET5 Off

Subtrim
St L30
Th F30

ABS
Width 60
Pos B20
Cycle 40
Delay 25
Duty Normal Centered

Th Speed
Speed 100
Position
Mode 1way

Th:Punch
F 0
B 0

Th:Curve
F 0
B 0

Th: Brake 50
Th:Highpoint 40

Th: Preset
ET1 Steering Trim
ET2 Th Trim
ET3 Brake
ET4 Travel
ET5 Off

Th:Accel
Width 0
Pos Low 5
Pos High 50
Cycle 97

ST:Speed
Speed Turn 60
Return 100
Position
Mode 1way

ST:Punch 0
ST: Curve -20

ST:Balance
L100
R100

ST:Travel 40
Auto:Start Off
Reverse:
ST Normal
TH Normal

Trim Rate
ST 10


I reset the memory so I was starting from a fresh setup. I have everything the same except what I have mentioned below.

Sub:Trim
ST R 2
TH F 8 (if I go any higher I can't engage reverse at all)

TH: Highpoint
H40 (this I guess I don't understand much, because with it set to 40 shouldn't I be only getting a little throttle??)

has anyone used the ICS software settings? anything to report on that?

briankstan
2008.10.02, 05:28 PM
Ok, I just figured something out.

is what you guys doing is you hit the reverse an hold it, then the ABS kicks it in after a very slight delay?

Hood
2008.10.02, 07:33 PM
Brian,

That is correct we now just hold down Reverse and it engages as soon as the delay is over. I have seen a few radios that the Forward trim has to be set differently, this will also effect the Highpoint Throttle setting.. Just make sure that your car is trimmed forward almost engaging with at neutral. Then make sure your Highpoint gives you full throttle..

I hope this helps, it has been working well on all four of my cars..

Hood

mk2kompressor
2008.10.02, 07:59 PM
hood,do you think this could apply for a car that stays on throttle slightly when the trigger is released?
i have one board that i think must be doing the opposite to the reverse problem,ill give the highpoint/trim a go

briankstan
2008.10.03, 01:35 AM
Brian,

That is correct we now just hold down Reverse and it engages as soon as the delay is over. I have seen a few radios that the Forward trim has to be set differently, this will also effect the Highpoint Throttle setting.. Just make sure that your car is trimmed forward almost engaging with at neutral. Then make sure your Highpoint gives you full throttle..

I hope this helps, it has been working well on all four of my cars..

Hood

great, I believe that I have it working, I just didn't know to hold the reverse. it really happened by accident. then I was messing with it. What I have matches you settings and it seems to be working. I'll give it a go at our next race and report back.

thanks a bunch. :D

kryten
2008.10.18, 04:37 PM
With these settings on my awd,it works but the car whines at standstill(as if the throttle is being applied-just not enough to turn the wheels)-will this do any damage to the car?

MikeL
2009.04.06, 02:49 PM
Is there anyway to alleviate the no reverse while the wheels are turned with the 2.4 board?

Cherub1m
2009.04.08, 01:48 PM
Is there anyway to alleviate the no reverse while the wheels are turned with the 2.4 board?

Mike

You should still have reverse while wheels are turned. It just seem to take a little longer to engage reverse. I dont know if that can be fixed. But what I had to do was learn to drive a little different. Basically, delay allows you to pulse the breaks without going into reverse (its a great feature if used right) and if you remember to always engage the brakes during a crash going back to neutral then back to reverse will make for a faster reverse response at some cases I can get my revese almost has fast has the AM PCB. What happen's is most will get fustrated when they crash/or get hacked:D then they either leave the throttle in neutral contemplating what just happened for a slip second (not ever engaging the brakes) or start flipping the reverse frantically, both of these methods will delay reverse. Frantically flipping the reverse will delay reverse even more then the standard delay.

Try this: Move your car foward then hit the brakes slightly then let the throttle go to neutral then before the car stops to roll or just when it stops to roll engage reverse, you should go into reverse fairly fast.

Good luck man, (and get your Mini 96 with expansion soon:D)

hobbycar
2009.09.22, 09:13 PM
I'm still not happy with what I have for reverse. these are the settings that I got from Hood.


ET1 ST trim R3
ET2 TH trim 0
ET3 Brake 100
ET4 Travel 65
ET5 Off

Subtrim
St L30
Th F30

ABS
Width 60
Pos B20
Cycle 40
Delay 25
Duty Normal Centered

Th Speed
Speed 100
Position
Mode 1way

Th:Punch
F 0
B 0

Th:Curve
F 0
B 0

Th: Brake 50
Th:Highpoint 40

Th: Preset
ET1 Steering Trim
ET2 Th Trim
ET3 Brake
ET4 Travel
ET5 Off

Th:Accel
Width 0
Pos Low 5
Pos High 50
Cycle 97

ST:Speed
Speed Turn 60
Return 100
Position
Mode 1way

ST:Punch 0
ST: Curve -20

ST:Balance
L100
R100

ST:Travel 40
Auto:Start Off
Reverse:
ST Normal
TH Normal

Trim Rate
ST 10


I reset the memory so I was starting from a fresh setup. I have everything the same except what I have mentioned below.

Sub:Trim
ST R 2
TH F 8 (if I go any higher I can't engage reverse at all)

TH: Highpoint
H40 (this I guess I don't understand much, because with it set to 40 shouldn't I be only getting a little throttle??)

has anyone used the ICS software settings? anything to report on that?

Thanks for posting this. The reverse issue (plus some other handling issues) absolutely killed me in my first HFAY OLPS race. Hopefully this will help.

-hobbycar