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View Full Version : F1 setup help!!!


wwwes
2008.03.11, 07:40 AM
Hey Ruf,

I have been patiently waiting on your new research on the setup of your F1 car. Still use your old info tweaked just a little for our club. We race mainly F1 in the big state of Arkansas. Any idea when you can share that newly acquired F1 knowledge????

ruf
2008.03.11, 01:05 PM
This is my latest 30 degree front tire setup:

Kyosho 30 degree front tires
Kyosho 20 degree rear tires
PN Racing stainless steel kingpins
Kyosho 2 degree front knuckles
Kyosho yellow springs (make sure that they are seated all the way down)
Atomic 1 degree tie rod
Kyosho carbon fiber side plates (make sure you install the plastic shims at the motor mount screws)
additional 0.8mm shim between right side plate and motor mount for tweak (depends on your chassis)
Atomic F1 motor mount (make sure you use the center axle setting - IMPORTANT!)
no side springs
Atomic disk damper (standard disks, green springs)
Kyosho ball diff w/titanium shaft
PN Racing 54T 64-pitch spur
shaved corners on battery lid
shaved and notched Kyosho front bumper for maximum front suspension travel
and of course, Reflex Racing/Avid bearings!

This is just what I run for my particular driving style on a relatively large track. YMMV, so please post specific areas of your car's handling that you would like to improve as it pertains to your track and driving style, and I will try to help out.

Spoon
2008.03.11, 03:15 PM
This is my latest 30 degree front tire setup:
shaved corners on battery lid
shaved and notched Kyosho front bumper for maximum front suspension travel


I would be interested to see what that bumper looks like. Also, what's up with shaving the battery lid?

ruf
2008.03.11, 03:47 PM
The rear corners on the battery lid are the first thing to drag. I'll try to post some pics tonight.

As for the bumper, the front two screw bosses are shaved down and notches are cut where the bumper normally hits the underside of the front a-arms/uprights. Sometimes you also have to shave the black cap piece that covers the tie rod. This allows you to have a bumper that is actually parallel to the ground instead of droopy in the front. For the Ferrari wing, I cut the bottom element off of the chin spoiler to make sure everything is nice and smooth on the underside of the car.

mleemor60
2008.03.11, 03:58 PM
Ruf,
Sometime back you were going to check out if the Atomic plate damper for the F-1 would work with the new PN rear pod. How did that turn out?

Crusty

ruf
2008.03.12, 04:15 AM
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier on that. Been busy with the ASF stuff, InZane and AWD setup. Anyways, I just checked out the PN mount, and I have some bad news. It will not fit the Atomic disk damper system without modifications. The area in question is the central post where the disk damper post would screw into. It is in the stock height which is way to high for the disk damper post. It would need to be cut down, drilled and threaded.

LBRC
2008.07.22, 12:54 AM
This is my latest 30 degree front tire setup:
...
Atomic 1 degree tie rod
...

Ruf are you using the atomic +1 degree or -1 degree tie rod?

ruf
2008.07.23, 02:59 PM
1 degree toe-in which is "-1" with Atomic because they screwed up. The F1 tie rod is in front of the wheels, so a shorter tie rod means toe-in instead of toe-out on the MR-02/AWD. Atomic neglected to take this into account or they are just describing the tie rod by length and not its effect on toe.

The grooved tires just don't feel as predictable to me on turn-in so I add a little toe to compensate. I've also been experimenting with less camber with good results.

LBRC
2008.07.23, 04:11 PM
So the part number AF21 Atomic Mini-Z F1 Alloy Tie Rod -1, and not the #AF19 +1.

Thanks for clearing that up, I started the think that I was missing something important.

ruf
2008.07.23, 05:26 PM
Yah, I ordered the wrong one the first time around and ended up with toe-out. I guess it can be useful for low grip tracks to get more steering until the traction comes up. We specifically note the toe-in effect for the product descriptions on our website using Atomic's screwed up naming of -1 and -2 for toe-in.

http://www.reflexracing.net/products.asp?cat=13

LBRC
2008.07.23, 06:37 PM
Helpful that, would be even more helpful if they were :rolleyes: “in stock.”

Wouldn’t want you to rush it but, um, have you finished that F1 tuning article yet…100’s if not 1000’s of fans waiting…Don’t forget to add a successful experiment chapter ;).

ruf
2008.07.23, 07:15 PM
Hahaha! Sure kick us while we're down! :D

We'll stock up on some F1 stuff soon. As we all know, F1 is a little niche-y...

LBRC
2008.07.31, 06:52 PM
So the part number AF21 Atomic Mini-Z F1 Alloy Tie Rod -1, and not the #AF19 +1.

Thanks for clearing that up, I started the think that I was missing something important.

Woops, I got it backward, again :o. Doesn’t help that the AF-21 label says “-1 Degree” and the tie-rod is stenciled “+1”.

The Atomic AF-21 “Alu. Tire Rod (-1 Degree) For Mini-Z F1” is marked “ATM +1” in white on the tie-rod. This is the shorter of the two and the one that gives you approx. 1 degree toe in (that’s -1 Degree to me).

The Atomic “Alu. Tir Rode (For Kyosho Mini-Z F1) (1 Degree)” is stamped or etched “1” on the tie-rod. This is the longer of the two for what appears to be approximately 1 degree toe out.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25222&stc=1&d=1217541265

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25223&stc=1&d=1217541274

Ruf

What kicking? Ok maybe a slight nudge with a toe in the ribs but :p are you done yet?

I’ve always liked F1’s but all of the sudden after installing the ASF CB that pesky biting Formula One Racing bug seems to have come back with a vengeance.

Just incase anyone doesn’t’ know Ruf was the one who showed us that Mini-Z F1’s actually could be fun to race instead of just pretty shelf queens, at least that’s how I see it. I loved the look and feel of the F1 but no matter what I tried I just couldn’t get them to hook up on the track :( and from what I was seeing and reading now one else was having much luck either. Was more than a bit frustrating really, low center of gravity, long wheel base, 20+ years of RC car experience said they should at the very least be drivable and the lap timer showed that they sort of where but every lap was a chore, bottom line just too much work for to much fun. All that changed after reading some of Ruf’s initial articles and post on setting up the F1, lol and blatantly copying his set-up sheet as a starting point to get me on track before making minor changes to suit my needs and style.

Thing is that it’s been a couple of years and little more insight from the F1 tuning master would be greatly appreciated.

ruf
2008.08.01, 01:54 PM
Hahaha! Flattery will get you nowhere! :p

Thanks for the kind words. I can't take that much credit though. There were and still are a lot of people that contribute to the overall F1 tuning knowledge base. Aaron Nelson, Chad Nelson, Bill Crotty, etc. All of these guys have very fast F1 cars, and every time we race, we learn something new.

I've been thinking of taking a slightly different approach to the article: a chassis-up build?

wwwes
2008.09.29, 03:15 PM
Hey Ruf,

Reviving this thread to get your help. Our club is running F1 and the motor rules allow the stock r motor. I just finished my 2.4ghz build and I am running the stock R. Woah this thing is very fast!!!! I have a heilos radio. Is there a setting to slow the trottle response of the radio to help is stick better. I am using your setup to a tee and am having a little problem with spinouts. Is ther a possible chassis setting or maybe a tire setting. Any help would be appreciated.

ruf
2008.09.29, 03:26 PM
The Stock R is a VERY fast motor. My setup uses a lot of rear steering so it is very dependent on power level. Try going to a 30 degree front tire and loosen up the diff a little. If you want, you can drop the throttle high point on the radio. Stock setting on the radio for ASF should be 60 Throttle/60 Brake. Maybe drop it to 55-57? Keep in mind that this might shift your neutral point so you should bump the trim (not the sub-trim) back.

Pierro
2008.10.07, 09:00 AM
Hello!

I'm a little new to F1 and have a few questions...

So far my actual set up is

Atomic 30° front
Atomic 10° rear or kyosho 20/10.
Kyosho 1° knuckles
Kyosho carbon suspension plate
Kyosho yellow springs in front, red rear.
Atomic stock motor
Atomic king pin
Atomic bearings

My electronic is a 3004 one.

And my main problem is:
Rear of the car slips way too much! I won't be able to keep to much speed entering the curve (or I will spin) or I won't be abble to give much throttle cause the car will also spin.

On carpet, the atomic 30/10 works perfect but on our RCP, this isn't driveable...

I tried 20 kyosho and 10 and have a little better drive, but the rear is still pretty easy to spin out.

What can I try to make my F1 works better on RCP for the club?
I see some possibilities:
-Change the front tires from atomic 30 to kyosho 30/20 and hope to have a car that slips from the entire chassis and not just the rear (better but not perfect)
-Hope the car set-up is good but only need the kyosho tires to be a little more used to be efficient.
-Change for slick 10 atomic Rear.
-Try the ball dif instead of the normal one (but this way is the expensivier, so I keep it in last position! lol).

Anyone can help me?

ruf
2008.10.09, 02:30 PM
The Atomic rear tires are useless on RCP, as well as the Kyosho 10's. Stick with Kyosho 20 on the rear or PN 6. The Atomic 30's in the front aren't bad. Kyosho 30's will have less steering. The ball diff will help, but set it to slip a little.

Also, double check that your car isn't tweaked and spinning out to one side only. The F1's tend to spin to the left out of the box.

Pierro
2008.10.13, 02:49 AM
Hello!

Re-tested my F1 this saturday.
Always the same problem unfortunately... The kyosho 20 seems to work the best as you said ruf.
I will have a pair of PN6 for RCP at my next session and try these ones.

Also some PN 20 or kyosho 20/30 for front but as the atomic 30 works well, I'll keep working on my rear.
And if I won't be able to get the rear to stick, i'll change the front tires for something with less grip.

For the chassis tweak, is it very "strong"? My F1 accelerate well straight but I'm not sure of an enventual spinning out more prononciated on one or the other side. As my rear seems to love spinning, perhaps will I see the tweak more easily with a better set-up.

I was also wondering of buying the kyosho schock for F1 or try without any springs on the rear. The best would be the atomic friction but I don't want to cut out my body. :s

Thanks a lot for the info and help!

ruf
2008.10.13, 06:20 PM
Sounds like you are on the right track. Try to see if the car will do donuts to the left. Just hold the steering full lock left and punch the gas. Most chassis that are tweaked will spin out. Now try it to the right and it should push like crazy. If that's the case, then adjust with a 0.5-1.0mm shim on the right side plate and you'll be good to go.

Pierro
2008.10.14, 03:31 AM
Hello!

Thanks a lot for the tip Ruf!
In fact i'm currently trying to set-up my three cars at the same time. Not the most efficient way of doing it but as I don't have all the piece or ideas to try in the good time for each chassis I do as I can.

I'm very interested in the F1 because I like the way It need to be drive smoothly and hope to get better for my other chassis as I learn from this one.
On carpet with my awd I used to be rather "brutal" with my car. On the RCP I need to be much more consistent and gentle in order to get my time to drop.
And so, F1 is perfect for that at the moment.

Also when my car will be correctly set-up, I can instal my new-coming ferrari body with no fear of destroying it within the first lap! :D

Pierro

Pierro
2008.10.21, 03:01 AM
Hello!

After a new test at the track my chassis appear to be tweaked as you describe it Ruf.
I'm now looking for some shims to get it straight.
By the way, when you say to ad a shim on the right side plate, is it on the chassis side or on the pod side?

Pierro.

PS: I hope to get my new 248F1 body this week. Much better looking that my actual old Mclaren and his broken nose wing.

Edit:
Found it on another post: shims under the pod side.

ruf
2008.10.22, 03:45 PM
Pod side. Add it between the side plate and the motor mount where the screw goes through.

Glad you sorted it out. Let us know how it goes!

Pierro
2008.10.23, 02:47 AM
Hello!

Just made the mods yesterday. I only had AWD spacer to use unfortunately. (0.1 thick if I remind correctly)
I put 3 spacer between the carbon plate and the plastic spacer. Visually, it looks good. (When I look at the bottom of the chassis, the pod is well aligned)
I'll try to have a little test at the track tomorrow. And will seek for much efficient spacers. ;)

I also think about shaving the plastic spacer on the other side but I prefer a non destructive way rather than having a different tweak if I have to change the chassis one day.

EDIT: Back from the track. The F1 isn't tweaked anymore.^^
And no that she has received her new red dress I bet my beauty will be faster. (Everything red go faster it's a natural law :p)
Just wait to try the PN 6 RCP tires now...

ruf
2008.10.27, 05:08 PM
latest pics. prepping for the worlds.

Keep up to date with our trip to the PNWC here: reflexracing.blogspot.com