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View Full Version : Things I've learned, 2.4-wise


imxlr8ed
2008.03.11, 10:34 AM
The cars are amazing, plain and simple... Kyosho once again has pulled through to bring us another great ride. The level of thought into the engineering is once again astounding. To have a box-stock car, with a box-stock disc dampener handle like that seems almost to good to be true. The tires actually work out of the box now (insert chorus of angels here)... finally! So, after playing with the thing for 3 or 4 races, here's what I've learned:

The longer wheelbase desires grippy tires on the front, which in my case led me to switch over to the regular sized wheels. PN 8 slicks on the front, 20s on the back seem to get the car to squirt through the corners rather nicely.

This car with a Speedy07 thrown in is much faster than all of my AM cars with the same motor in them.

Switched over to a PN rear MM mount, and also got rid of the stock dampener system and replaced it with a PN multi-length. Also put the 64 pitch gears on it... whoa!... now it's stealthy and fast!

Added some toe-in to the front to get it to corner a little tighter once again, and switched to some old crusty 8 degree rears... much better now in the corners!

This thing sucks juice out of cells like a little battery vampire! I'm running 900mahs and I would be worried about an 8 minute race. It's very similar to my other Mod cars in duration.

The reverse is a pain, but after some real whacky fiddling around with that controller it's solved. If I hit he wall off-throttle, the car throws right back into reverse... hit it on throttle and it's a quick tap. I haven't sat dead on the track since I've messed with it.

I'm not sure if anyone else has seen this but, when I was messing with the progressive throttle trims, I held the throttle, and pushed the trim button up and held it like that for a few seconds, and it seemed to flip the throttle function. I actually had 2 reverses then! Did it again, and it went back to normal.

The body is brittle... well, so far I've had to glue both headlights in, and the body is cracked on both inside lower corners of the lights. A valiant effort with the gluestick Kyosho... but I'm smelling another Audi type breakage issue. I wish they would have beefed up the internals a bit more up there, maybe some nice structural ribbing next time? (You know... we do race these things! ;))

All in all, the car is frickin fantabulous! Handles and responds with near telepathic capabilities, has a perfect amount of smooth power, and the controller is the coolest little overgrown TV remote I've ever held! My next move is dropping my Lambo Murch skin on it and going back to the 98 to get it a little more crash ready, and to get it a little quicker through the corners.

Oh... and I took the old stock 2.4 mount and hacked out the hole in the disk dampener to get it to fit on my 98mm Enzo, I widened the hole towards the front of the car and left maybe a 16th of plastic up there and it works excellent... the car handles better with this mount than it did with the PN setup that was on it previously! Had to keep the stock LM Rear wheels on it though, and put some +2s on the front, now I have my first Wide-Trac Enzo!

benmlee
2008.03.13, 07:47 PM
I totally agree with imxlr8ed's comment. Kyosho has done a brilliant job on ASF. It shows the serious effort they put into the product. The response of these cars are so fast. It is as if there is a direct cable connection from the steering wheel to the car.
The transmitter feels like a slot car controller. Its micro size and light weight goes against convention. Is so small it feels like is not even there. That is the beauty of it. It allows you to concentrate on the car and not be distracted by the weight of the controller. Some of those high end controller are pretty heavy. The cut on the steering wheel is actually helpful. It lets you have a good hold on the steering wheel without slipping. Some might complain about the feel, but feel doesn't matter, performance is good. Kyosho must have purposely release the module late so people have to try the new controller. I reluctantly got the transmitter after hearing that module is delayed until June. Bet you if people still don't try the new transmitter, Kyosho will delay the module till December :)
AD band were fast, but these feels even faster. When you turn up the settings on the AD band, it can be as fast as ASF. But it feels like ASF has been conservatively set. The potential is there, and can be turned up even faster when the ICS cable is available.

rc_speed
2008.03.17, 12:36 AM
Imxlr8ed,
What did you do to make the reverse quicker? I raced my car this weekend and the reverse was a major pain. I kept getting hit because I could not get it to go into reverse quick enough.

thanks,
tim

imxlr8ed
2008.03.17, 10:52 AM
I went so many different directions with that trim knob, I really can't say exactly. Theory is, have it centered and then roll the trim towards forward until it pings ever so slightly. Same thin I used to do with all of my other AM cars.

I will sit down with it tonight and get the exact settings (beep counts) figured out, and I'll post them tonight.

marc
2008.03.17, 12:57 PM
Thank you imxlr8ed, I've not raced my car yet, as I just got home Friday from a trip to London, but while in Florida last week I binded the transmitter with the car and test-ran it and also found reverse to take a while to kick in. Will also fiddle with the setting's and see if I can't get it to reverse quicker. Also, I wonder if my Spectrum controller will work with it. I've been told it is NOT compatable, but I still like to try.

imxlr8ed
2008.03.18, 02:06 PM
I posted my current settings here, hope they help.

http://www.minizracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=294943&posted=1#post294943

imxlr8ed
2008.03.24, 02:20 AM
Well... so far, learning more and more about this little 2.4 demon everyday. Finally got the track set up in the basement and been doing a little more testing. Number one thing and probably the biggest issue I've found so far with this car is the battery usage... this thing drains cells like crazy and I can't figure out why! Now I am running an Anima in it, and I know that's probably not the best thing for it but it's just so much fun to have that kind of speed in it with that much control. I have run mod cars before with this very same motor and a double stack of 4562s, and they had no problem going a full 8 minutes. My 2.4 starts to drop off noticeably (but not that bad) at around 5 minutes, and feels like a stock car at the end of 8 (really noticeable). I'm really beating this thing up lately too because I need to know if it's going to be my Mod car for the upcoming Atomic Race.

So I just got done going for 4 back to back 8 minute torture runs to see if it'll hold up and the only other issue I had was the motor wire screws coming loose. I thought I was having that shut-down issue, but it turns out the screws seemed to work themselves loose alot quicker than most cars... might be all the heat. I ran some longer screws into it and it seems fine now. But each run was the same thing... the car feels alot slower towards the end of the 8 minutes than my typical Mod cars. Also... it smells of hot plastic (which, in a sick way... I kind of actually enjoy!), I don't think it's the board generating all the heat either... it seems more like the cells are creating it! They came out of the chassis tonight almost too hot to hold. I have new 900mah cells and they have been cycled thoroughly... it is a new cell type for me but I don't think that's the problem because they don't get that hot in my other Mod car. Anyone else experiencing this heat issue? I did say above that it was similar to my Mod cars in duration... but that was with the 07, certainly worse with the Anima.

Overall though... still a great car, It does take alot of punishment and I am still very impressed. I might just keep it out of the Atomic race though and go with the old tried and true doublestack AM ESC. I will miss that precision steering though. I was tempted to throw some 4562s on it but I'm just not that brave yet, I would hate to fry my new toy. :o

Oh, one more thing... I was really messing with the radio again and I found the controller light blinking blue, but the car still worked fine. I couldn't find this addressed in the manuals, but made it go away by re-setting the controller to the factory default settings. I was messing with the throttle trims again and that's when the light started blinking. No idea what I did, but it's fine now. (whew! :rolleyes:)

herman
2008.03.24, 04:04 AM
Imxlr8ed,
What did you do to make the reverse quicker? I raced my car this weekend and the reverse was a major pain. I kept getting hit because I could not get it to go into reverse quick enough.

thanks,
tim

read this thread re: reverse
http://www.minizracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27704


this is the short of it...

p24 gives it all... (i summarized it into 3 simple) steps:

1. basically raise your car off the ground (so it doesn't run off unsuspectedly) fiddle around with the throttle trim (press A/up) till the wheels start moving forward

2. then adjust throttle trim (press B/down) till the wheels stop, then press B a few more times until beeping sound from the chassis stops

3. finally press B 8 more times (might be 7,8,9 or more - i guess 8 is more or less the benchmark)

reverse should work a lot better now. almost like the am mr02 chassis...

you can use this method if your car is initially going in reverse - just press A till it goes forward. then go through the whole process again...

herman
2008.03.24, 04:09 AM
I was really messing with the radio again and I found the controller light blinking blue, but the car still worked fine. I couldn't find this addressed in the manuals, but made it go away by re-setting the controller to the factory default settings. I was messing with the throttle trims again and that's when the light started blinking. No idea what I did, but it's fine now.

hmmm... if the tx light is blinking, that means it's in the training mode...
(ref. - page 24 perfex kt18 manual or page 32 mr02lm manual)

imxlr8ed
2008.03.24, 08:53 AM
hmmm... if the tx light is blinking, that means it's in the training mode...
(ref. - page 24 perfex kt18 manual or page 32 mr02lm manual)

Wow... wonder how I did that? Looks like I've got more reading to do. Thanks Herman!

herman
2008.03.25, 03:28 AM
no problem :D

Drew_Cat
2008.04.03, 10:41 AM
I need to know if it's going to be my Mod car for the upcoming Atomic Race.




did you use this car for the Atomic race, and how did you make out?

Programmers
2008.04.03, 11:11 AM
Fantastic read imxlr8ed! You could be a rep writing stuff like that. I feel an urge coming on...:rolleyes:

imxlr8ed
2008.04.03, 01:51 PM
Thanks for the compliment!

I am sad to say... I gave in and went with the old AM boards for Mod class. I'm not sure it would have helped me if I did run the 2.4... Mod class was hyper-fast up there. I'm sure I saw one or two guys who did use their 2.4s in Mod, but I'm not sure where they finally ended up.

I turbo’d two old AM boards the night before the race and pulled a late-night test & tune on my home track. The outright speed of the 4562s is just too much power to walk away from for a race like that. I tanked it in Mod anyways... I really wasn't sure if I wanted to run F1 or Mod when I got up there but how could I turn down the opportunity to go fast with the best of them? (or at least try to go fast with them. :rolleyes:)

Mod was a mess for me. I had a short on one of my wires in the first qualifier, and a wheel fell off in the second one. I pretty much just gave up on Mod class at that point. On my third heat, the car was pushing like all hell... I went to a narrower offset all around and 0 degree camber, even went to a softer front spring and 2 degrees of toe in and the car was just too much in and out of the corners, I had no steering left in the radio whatsoever. There’s obviously something I was missing, but I think I have an idea what it was now. I think running the soft plate on the back just refused to allow the rear tires to break loose in a controlled fashion, I should’ve went to a stiffer rear plate and given up on just trying to tune with the front gear only. I did change to a 20 rear at one point but the car spun out then. (should've known then) The Atomic 40s were a fairly hard tire, but watching everyone else get around on them... you wouldn't know it.

These cars are tricky to balance… and I made the simple mistake of getting too focused on one thing, and not looking at the whole car and what it was really doing.

All in all… a rough day for me. I did have fun with Stock though. I did win my third qualifier in stock and I was really hoping for a B Main win, but one good tap in the back and out popped the nose clip. Needless to say, there went the 1st, 2nd or 3rd place plaques for my pit space at home.

Still fun though… can’t wait for the next event!

I currently have my 2.4 setup on a Bimmer M3, just going to have fun with it for now until I get the real parts it deserves. It will make a great club Mod car, but I'm still not sold on it for Big Event Mod races.

pfcparts
2008.04.03, 02:29 PM
I don't think it's the board generating all the heat either... it seems more like the cells are creating it! They came out of the chassis tonight almost too hot to hold. I have new 900mah cells and they have been cycled thoroughly... it is a new cell type for me but I don't think that's the problem because they don't get that hot in my other Mod car. Anyone else experiencing this heat issue? I did say above that it was similar to my Mod cars in duration... but that was with the 07, certainly worse with the Anima.

I've experienced this multiple times with both my regular cells and TSR cells running either a stock r or a stock awd.

The regs would get super hot, and the TSRs just started getting hot as well. I finally had one shut down on me the other day.

And I used to think batt heatsinks were a joke lol.:)

parts

imxlr8ed
2008.04.03, 02:39 PM
So I would guess the question still is... why the super-discharge? is there something else going on here? Could it be an errant brake or reverse function running while going forward? That's about the only thing I could think of... I know it wasn't a gear bind or a drivetrain resistance thing. and I'm pretty sure it's not a servo motor thing. (unless they have some hyper hand-wound servo motor in there, but I'm pretty sure they would have mentioned that.) Where are all those Amps going to? I might have to invest in a multimeter.