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RobinZ
2008.03.19, 11:25 AM
Hi all,

I made some graphs from the data Atomicmods provides with the 130 motors they offer on their website. Top graph is Torque, lower graph is Power.

Interesting to see how they actually perform. From this bunch Stock R Evo is the top performer. It puts out an enormous amount of torque from low speed to full speed but especially in the midrange it is tremendously strong. Although the Z2 runs higher revs, when geared well the stock R evo will beat the Z2 on acceleration...(if you get al the power to the track:D)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2483879727_c3eeeb70f6_o.jpg

(I hope Atomicmods wouldn't mind that I've used their data. If so, please let me know, I will remove it immidiately.)

DJ Kyosho
2008.03.19, 12:04 PM
Great job on the graph, this should help people in choosing a motor. I've run the stock R motor and it is pretty fast just like the graph shows.

EMU
2008.03.19, 01:10 PM
Nice charts :D The only motor that I kind of disagree with how it is shown is the box stock motor. It should have more RPM than that. I know that I pass cars with the same gearing using Speedy 05s on the straight... There should be more top end than the charts show. They lack tourque, not speed...

I know you collected this data from another source... Maybe they tested before it was broken in.

RobinZ
2008.03.19, 02:33 PM
thx!
it is important to test under the same conditions for the matter of a good reproducibility and comparability. What I was thinking of what could be the case is they tested the motors under load; all the motors do not run the specified speed. The data I saw suggests they test the motor climbing from zero to full speed at full throttle lasting about 6 to 7 seconds. This could indicate some acceleration of inertia attached to the motor or so. This is the way motorcycle dynos work.:rolleyes:

CristianTabush
2008.03.22, 12:39 AM
I did all this data testing at AM while I was still there. There is no disagreement here. Each graph was the average of 5 of each kind of motor. It was a project that took me about a month long to complete. All the data was collected using a Fantom Facts machine converted to work with 130 size motors. These tests were all under load, at 5 volts. The majority of motor testers out there use some sort of RPM reader and a simple power supply to test the amp draw of the motors. These tests that I performed, I believe are the only true indicators outside of a car that will give you accurate readings to compare every motor to each other under equal conditions.

Now, inside of a car, the story might be different. But these tests should provide the most accurate and standardized version of comparison between the different types and brands of motors.

The motor you failed to plot was the Atomic Stock, which is so impressive. It makes the most torque out of all motors creating the second most amount of power.

But remember torque is nothing without RPMs and vice versa. What you are looking for is power (the watts a motor puts out) this is equal to RPMs x torque and is the only indicator of how fast a motor can be inside a car.

Lastly, EMU, a stock motor has 70 turns, a speedy05 52. Motors with more winds will ALWAYS make more torque and less RPMs. The difference is the motor can. If you put a stock motor in a speedy 05 can, it should make MUCH more torque and MUCH less RPMs. This is simply physics, More winds= more wire= more magnetism= more torque. The reason why you are passing people with "faster" motors down the straightaway is simply because you are a better driver. Coming onto the straightaway you are simply carrying more speed, therefore have to accelerate less to get to your top speed vs the other people. Used to happen to me back in my 1/10th scale days, I'd pass 19 turn motors with my stock motor all the time so much that they though I was cheating. Stock racing is all about momentum, and those who can get to master it will seem like they have much faster motors, especially down the straightaway since their cars never really slow down.

EMU
2008.03.22, 03:17 AM
The Atomic Stock is one hell of a motor. My local track doesnt permit them for stock class. We dont run modified anymore either so I cant use it in that if I wanted... That was my favorite motor for a while. I would love to run it in my 2.4 or Ad car :D I would love to see what the chart would be for an X-Speed armature in an Atomic BB can with Neo Magnets, or even the Speedy 05.

Thank you for clarifying the test methodology and consistancy of testing. I do not second guess that the data is inaccurate. It just looks so much lower than the others in RPM. It was hard to believe, since my stock motor 015 cars are comparably as fast as the Speedy 05 and 07 cars during practice. Towards the end of the straight.

As you mentioned, the numbers may be different to how a motor actually feels in a car. When you say it was tested with load, how much load are you talking about? Just an amount of mass attached to the shaft?

The straight at my track is long enough that the motors top out with a 9t pinion a little less than half way down it. I dont rely on my motors for my setups, I have the fastest 'slow' cars in the field. I make all my time up on the infields with corner speed. On many of my MR02s I am still running old Speedy 05 motors. Last saturday I switched out for a Speedy 07bb since I didnt want to give an easy passing opportunity now that 2.4s are running in the stock class, and we had a big field. I dont think I am a great driver, but I am above average. I ended up finishing A4 in a field of about 30 drivers, running my AM car stock fets. Many were driving the new 2.4 or Ad as well. Sai Tam won using Ad, followed close by Roland. I was one and a half laps down right behind Philly123, who is the current leader in the points series, and allways runs at the top at the local track. The Speedy 05 didnt have as much top end as the Speedy 07, although I liked it a little better on the infield (our track has low rear bite, but strong front bite). I was running 94mm MM F40, which I feel has more rear stability than the C5R that I had been using for quite a while. I was able to run 10d PN front tires instead of 15d PN that I had been using with the C5R. I cant get the Lexus SC430 to hook up at all there. Rear is too squirmy. Maybe in an RM config it would work alright.

Thanks for the research Christian, it is greatly appreciated.

RobinZ, dank u voor de graf. Het is vrij goed. (I am very limited in my Dutch, hope my spelling is correct)

RobinZ
2008.03.23, 04:50 AM
So I have to put the Atomic Stock in the graph asap...

Hey, EMU, every bit of Dutch is great already. The spelling is fine with exception of 'graf' which actually means 'grave' , 'grafiek' is the word. But thanks anyhow!

Cristian, it would be interesting to know what kind of load and how many load you applied, etc..

thx,
Robin

CristianTabush
2008.03.23, 11:38 AM
It was a flywheel, but I do not recall the weight. I am really bad at approximating weight, so I can't say. The flywheel was custom made to approximate the motors' load inside cars.

TheRinger
2008.03.23, 02:31 PM
I would like to see how the atomic standard compares to these motors or the atomic ADband motor or the PN ADband motor.

EMU
2008.03.23, 09:32 PM
I would like to see how the atomic standard compares to these motors or the atomic ADband motor or the PN ADband motor.
I agree. I would like to see the Standard compared to X-Speed and Speedy 05/07.

CristianTabush
2008.03.24, 10:41 AM
I don't remember if I tested it or not. I believe I did. It is somewhere in between the land of the x-speed and the rest of the stuff (slightly better than the x-speed).

RobinZ
2008.03.24, 04:25 PM
I just added some interesting motors...:)
Now it became engine spec spaghetti:rolleyes:
Evo still going strong :cool:
Saber and Xeric from PN look good too
Atomic standard is near x-speed, both on the bottom of the ranking (but still above stock :p)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2165/2483879727_c3eeeb70f6_o.jpg

RobinZ
2008.03.24, 04:45 PM
It was a flywheel, but I do not recall the weight. The flywheel was custom made to approximate the motors' load inside cars.

A flywheel makes sense in the case of comparing motors only. Matching the exact load an engine experiences in a Mini-z as a function of speed would be hard to accomplish. But an approximation of the load is fine for not being way of the normal running conditions.

So it was the load which caused the Kyosho Stock to run out of breath

Thx for the nice test results!

ZicZicZoom
2009.05.13, 11:16 PM
the funny thing is the Chilie is the fastest motor on the graph and the graph really does not show it.

Skv012a
2009.05.13, 11:35 PM
Its torque and power vs engine RPMs, not car speed. The way I see it, Chili looks to be one of the most balanced going right through the middle of the graph. So its not too weak/fast nor is it powerful/slow. As soon as I build an air break-in stand I'll be sure to break in mine and try it out ona track if my MR can handle Speedy AWD at the very least.

EMU
2009.05.14, 01:37 AM
The Chili looks like it is where it is supposed to be. I mainly use the Z2 for mod, Chili is not as fast on the top end as my Z2 in the same gearing. It has a little more power in the mid band, but it is barely noticable since they are both fast motors.

The Chili is a very easy mod motor to drive. Very smooth, when I first drove it, I thought to myself 'thats all the power this has?'. I would have expected to see slightly higher RPM numbers for the Chili on the graph though, but not much more than it has.

I prefer high speed motors over high torque motors, Z2, Chili, PN 33t... all are very close in track performance, with my preference being the Z2 since it has a little more speed. All three I would gear the same, or close. The T2, Stock-R, you would have to gear up a little more to have comparable speed. They will have a little more power coming out of the corner, and may cause more wheel spin on mid-low grip conditions.

ZicZicZoom
2009.06.08, 11:22 PM
so that means that if a motor goes straight through the graph it is the best? interesting.

RobinZ
2009.06.18, 02:11 PM
I agree with emu. The stockR is really a bit too torqueous:D.
A torque more flat seems better imo. Driveability is more important than absolute power or torque.

After seeing these graphs I have also been thinking to buy a z2, it has an awesome rev range, but for my small home track it doent make any sense.
RZ

EMU
2009.06.18, 03:39 PM
I agree with emu. The stockR is really a bit too torqueous:D.
A torque more flat seems better imo. Driveability is more important than absolute power or torque.

After seeing these graphs I have also been thinking to buy a z2, it has an awesome rev range, but for my small home track it doent make any sense.
RZ
If your on a small track, just use the Speedy 07, and gear it down. You could also use the Atomic Standard, which isnt as powerful, but is smooth.

RobinZ
2009.06.19, 04:43 AM
thx!:)
One of these is what I will be trying for the next e-motor. The Atomic standard seems rather similar to the xspeedv which I do have for all cars in my Z-fleet right now. So I guess for just a bit more bite on my home track I would need to go for a speedy07.
RZ

chino34
2009.11.02, 11:47 PM
If u had to choose these motors for your awd (x speed, speedy awd, speedy 07 bb, stock fet) in order, what would it be? Im new to mini z world and i see its very competitive racing. I dont have fets or upgraded wires yet but the guys i race pass me like im standin still and they are runnin spd 07 and fets / wire upgrade and Im runnin speedy awd and its not enough. I wanna try new motors to see if i can beat those guys........Thanks

EMU
2009.11.03, 04:34 AM
ATM Stock BB Yellow label is my favorite AWD motor. Runs cool, good power out of the corners unlike the Speedy 07... I gear mine at 19/27.

Which Speedy AWD do you have? I believe there are 3 versions... Gearing means a lot with AWD. Try gearing 19/31 or 19/29 if it isnt fast enough on the straight. It should be roughly the same speed as the Speedy 07, but get up to speed a little faster out of the corners. You can ask Dave, my 07 AWD feels like it has no power, but carries a lot of speed through the corners.

Is the car ASF or AM? All of my AWD's are ASF with stock fets.

Traveler
2009.11.03, 04:53 AM
Chino,

Same thing happened to me with my MR-02 when I started racing at HSH. I thought I had a good car, but I would get passed like I was standing still.

The motor is imporant, and I agree with EMU that the

ATM Stock BB Yellow label is my favorite AWD motor.

But I agree even more that grearing is very important

Gearing means a lot with AWD. Try gearing 19/31 or 19/29 if it isnt fast enough on the straight. It should be roughly the same speed as the Speedy 07, but get up to speed a little faster out of the corners.

Which Speedy AWD do you have? I believe there are 3 versions... Is the car ASF or AM? All of my AWD's are ASF with stock fets.

Chino has the bushing motor P/N 100643 and an ASF chassis.

Chino, in case you missed it Davey G said to drop your car in his pit space and he will get you going right.

Good luck!:D

chino34
2009.11.03, 12:53 PM
I agree the gearing makes a difference but I tryed it all 29/21 27/19 31/19 but my speed is still slow, I have Speedy AWD II (pn 100643) I think traveler gave it too me with his awd car, I love the car but I need more speed I feel like a sunday driver on the track!!! :0( which of the motors I listed is the fastest in ur eyes,(EMU & Traveler) please let me know.... Thanks, Marwan do u have anything else for sell let me know thanks buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Traveler
2009.11.03, 01:43 PM
The motor that came with the car is not the AWDII :( Its the PN AWD 100643

I have a ton of new or slightly used motors to sell, including PN AWD III and the ATM Stock that EMU mentioned he likes. Also got a bunch of mod motors. Email me if you need any. I've never tried the XSpeed or the PN FS, so I can't say.

I'd say have Davey G look at your car to see if there is any binding or if the drivetrain can be made smoother before deciding on a motor.

chino34
2009.11.03, 01:53 PM
Marwan how much for the motors send me info and prices but remember I dont have fets...... also the car runs great its just I need a little more speed thats it,the car handles and got it tuned right toward the suspension and tires. I just need more horsepower.........:eek:

Traveler
2009.11.03, 02:19 PM
Check your emails ;)

Action B
2009.11.03, 02:57 PM
Hmm, it seems odd. The PN stock is the PN 70 turn right? I'm certain my atomic standard has more power than that thing.

Traveler
2009.11.03, 03:07 PM
The PN 70 turn is the stock motor for 2WD. I guess the PN Speedy AWD motor is the equivalent to a stock motor for AWD. Its a 43 turn bushing motor.

Action B
2009.11.03, 03:11 PM
Really? I love the 70 turn in my AWD. The new PN 70T with the shinier canister is my favorite motor.

Traveler
2009.11.03, 03:55 PM
I run the PN 70 turn in all my 2WD cars (6 of them), but never tried it in the AWD.

NoBrainer
2011.10.25, 05:15 AM
The PN70T and the CTP70T, how do they compare to each other?
Can't find them in the charts.

anybody knows?

NoBrainer
2011.11.08, 02:42 PM
Nobody knows?

No graphs with the CTP or PN 70T?