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View Full Version : 2.4GHz replacing AM system


svt-racer
2008.04.15, 11:17 PM
Guys, I am sick of racing with the AM band and continue to have frequency glitch issues. Jason is on the same boat, and perhaps some of you may be feeling the same way. To that end, I am interested in pursuing the switch to the 2.4GHz system. That will present an issue regarding the timing system. We should begin investigating what other timing system we can use.

Comments, ideas, suggestions? Lets open up the discussion.

briankstan
2008.04.16, 12:17 AM
I am interested in pursuing the switch to the 2.4GHz system. That will present an issue regarding the timing system. We should begin investigating what other timing system we can use.

Comments, ideas, suggestions? Lets open up the discussion.

What timing system are you using? and why dould it present an issue?

I thought you were using core, I haven't had any issues with core and the 2.4ghz ASF Mini-z's.

mini-z
2008.04.16, 06:45 AM
BKS, we're using the KO system, which is transponder-less, using the car's own frequency - as such, it cannot be used w/ 2.4; we have both the Core and Giro-Z systems as well, either of which we can use w/ 2.4 - however, 2.4 is not yet legal for HFAY, right? :confused: :)

briankstan
2008.04.16, 11:48 AM
BKS, we're using the KO system, which is transponder-less, using the car's own frequency - as such, it cannot be used w/ 2.4; we have both the Core and Giro-Z systems as well, either of which we can use w/ 2.4 - however, 2.4 is not yet legal for HFAY, right? :confused: :)

not for the rest of season 5, it will be leagal In season 6 :cool:

cvt01
2008.04.16, 11:49 AM
I just don't have glitches like you guys have, I can recall only one race where I had some minor glitch but it was nothing compared to your problem. I believe it is because of the KO radio I'm using but I may be wrong here. So I don't know how much the change to 2.4 system would cost but a new KO radio + AM module is about $244 at shopatron... that would still enable us to use that KO lap counting system - it is just sooo convenient.
If you guys want to test it with your own car we can do that next time.

BTW - it is time to open the official thread for the next race - just in case you are reading this D... ;)

svt-racer
2008.04.16, 04:56 PM
Well, I am willing to forfeit the season and try to enjoy racing with the new 2.4GHz system. It just takes the fun out of competing. Having a car glitching in every lap does not make it easy to drive and enjoy the good Friday nights we spend at the Dojo!

CristianTabush
2008.04.16, 05:25 PM
Purchasing a Giro-Z is about $300 U.S. I think this is a very good alternative as it allows you to run any frequency you want.

mini-z
2008.04.16, 06:14 PM
I just don't have glitches like you guys have, I can recall only one race where I had some minor glitch but it was nothing compared to your problem. I believe it is because of the KO radio I'm using but I may be wrong here.

For me the glitching seems to be off and on, I've not experienced anything significant in the past few races; interesting point RE Helios - does Paulie ever have glitching problems - it would be interesting if the KO users turned out to experience it less/never vs M8/11? :eek:

So I don't know how much the change to 2.4 system would cost but a new KO radio + AM module is about $244 at shopatron... that would still enable us to use that KO lap counting system - it is just sooo convenient.
If you guys want to test it with your own car we can do that next time.

I assume what you meant to say that you should support to Dojo and avoid shopatron (if you did order from there, it would most likely come from us anyway - they'd just take a big cut)... :rolleyes: We should have the Helios sets back in stock soon - and don't forget we're only a few months away from the ASF module for Helios! :cool:

BTW - it is time to open the official thread for the next race - just in case you are reading this D... ;)

Next race isn't til 4/25, but, will do soon! :)

mini-z
2008.04.16, 06:20 PM
Well, I am willing to forfeit the season and try to enjoy racing with the new 2.4GHz system. It just takes the fun out of competing. Having a car glitching in every lap does not make it easy to drive and enjoy the good Friday nights we spend at the Dojo!

We could set up a duplicate HFAY layout (or two!) where the big track is now and use the Core or (and!) Giro-Z systems there for 2.4GHz people - you wouldn't be able to submit your times, but you'd at least be able to compare for those who want to make the switch early; here's everything you need to switch to 2.4 btw:

Kyosho Mini-Z MR-02/MR-015 2.4GHz ASF Conversion Set (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19249)

Kyosho Mini-Z MA-010 2.4GHz ASF Conversion Set (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19250)

:)

Another idea w/b to spend the month "off" doing a 3-way lap counter comparison/experiment, if the glitchees are willing to run another 3 races to finish out the season. :)

mini-z
2008.04.16, 06:22 PM
Purchasing a Giro-Z is about $300 U.S. I think this is a very good alternative as it allows you to run any frequency you want.

C, we do have a Giro-Z actually - this may be just the impetus we need to actually get it up and running - until now we'd had good results w/ the KO/no reason to switch, so we'd not really spent much time figuring out the Giro software etc. :)

briankstan
2008.04.16, 06:30 PM
Don't forget we're only a few months away from the ASF module for Helios! :cool:

is there a pre-order for these? I need in on it if there is.

svt-racer
2008.04.16, 09:07 PM
C, we do have a Giro-Z actually - this may be just the impetus we need to actually get it up and running - until now we'd had good results w/ the KO/no reason to switch, so we'd not really spent much time figuring out the Giro software etc. :)


I am willing to spend the time and set it up. Spend enough time to work with the system and see what software works best with it.


By the way, thanks for the info on the conversion. I was actually thinking that perhaps I can start troubleshooting the issues with a different radio, crystals, etc. I got a feeling that between the crystal sets and the Futaba radio and antenna I have they are not helping. Even with my AM module, I believe it may not be as robust as in a new KO radio. I did try using Pauly's radio with his car, and it was a dream. The reaction time and feel of the steering wheel and trigger, was right on. I think I actually like how the radio felt in my hands, very comfortable.

I may be up for a new radio anyway for my regular 1/10 scale racing as well as the Mini Z. If that combo is better suited for the miniZ, I will make the switch...but most likely stay in the 2.4GHz.

I believe Jason's radio is the M8, not the M11, but I am not sure on that. He also is thinking about making the switch to KO.

Shadow Runner
2008.04.16, 10:03 PM
here's everything you need to switch to 2.4 btw:

Kyosho Mini-Z MR-02/MR-015 2.4GHz ASF Conversion Set (http://shop.tinyrc.com/product.php?productid=19249)



what does this set include?

Also, would I be able to participate in the HFAY with my MR-02 lithium car?

cvt01
2008.04.16, 11:38 PM
.....
I assume what you meant to say that you should support to Dojo and avoid shopatron (if you did order from there, it would most likely come from us anyway - they'd just take a big cut)... :rolleyes: We should have the Helios sets back in stock soon - and don't forget we're only a few months away from the ASF module for Helios! :cool:


ummm yeah that's what I meant :D

I'm not so sold on the 2.4 GHz systems, I still remember the early adopters struggle on the spektrum system. I will let you guys figure it out. I have two 27Mhz FM receiver for the thing, nobody else uses 27MHz FM at lazer so it is just as good as a spektrum...
I don't believe in the universal off-brand TV remotes and I think trying to marry the sanwa and futaba systems to the miniz receiver is almost the same category, it will work but never as good as the original. KO may have put in some trick in those built in miniz receivers so they like the KO brand transmitters and/or AM modules better than the sanwa and futaba stuff... :D

cvt01
2008.04.16, 11:46 PM
Well, I am willing to forfeit the season and try to enjoy racing with the new 2.4GHz system. It just takes the fun out of competing. Having a car glitching in every lap does not make it easy to drive and enjoy the good Friday nights we spend at the Dojo!

C, I think you guys should think through this forfeiting thing a little, I mean we are so close to win the season as a team. There are three races left at least do one or two more to stay in the top 15 with the drops or something...

herman
2008.04.17, 12:10 AM
BKS, we're using the KO system, which is transponder-less, using the car's own frequency - as such, it cannot be used w/ 2.4

warning... ***total newbie question coming up***

will the ko system work with ad band cars???

svt-racer
2008.04.17, 06:41 AM
C, I think you guys should think through this forfeiting thing a little, I mean we are so close to win the season as a team. There are three races left at least do one or two more to stay in the top 15 with the drops or something...


Peter, with the car glitching like it was in the last 2 or 3 races, the car has been simply undrivable. You cannot drive it on a straight line for 3 ft without glitching! Nothing more frustrating that see the car turn 90 degrees to left or right without you asking the car to do it while the motor cuts off power and starts up again!

cvt01
2008.04.17, 11:06 PM
I understand that, that is why we are a team, you can use my radio and shuffle around the heats and mains so we run always different ones. We will establish a program in my radio for you (we'll name it "crybaby") so you can have it finetuned to your (two left) hands ;)

oh wait I won't be there for the next race that means you can borrow the radio if you came to my house and pick it up anytime over the weekend

lemme know if you're interested...

mini-z
2008.04.20, 01:39 PM
I understand that, that is why we are a team, you can use my radio and shuffle around the heats and mains so we run always different ones. We will establish a program in my radio for you (we'll name it "crybaby") so you can have it finetuned to your (two left) hands ;)

Sorry C, this is partly my fault - I told Peter that "crybaby" means "much appreciated race director" in English and that "two left hands" is the RC equiv. of "green thumbs"! :D

mini-z
2008.04.20, 01:59 PM
warning... ***total newbie question coming up***

will the ko system work with ad band cars???

NP H - no, it only works w/ 27AM (unless you use a transponder). :)

mini-z
2008.04.20, 02:00 PM
I am willing to spend the time and set it up. Spend enough time to work with the system and see what software works best with it.

I bring much great news from RCX - Philip showed me the new Giro-Z software and it's great - seems to have everything we'd need race management-wise. What's more, there is a USB interface in the works that we are apparently eligible to upgrade to for free when it comes out! I'm all for getting this system set up over the next couple of months in time for next HFAY season. Only bad thing I've seen so far was when Rod H alleges he spanked Cristian (hope he reads this! :D) but his transponder got knocked out of line so only the first dozen or so laps were counted (and, I admit, he was ahead at that point!). :D And of course we'll all have to spring for new transponders.


By the way, thanks for the info on the conversion. I was actually thinking that perhaps I can start troubleshooting the issues with a different radio, crystals, etc. I got a feeling that between the crystal sets and the Futaba radio and antenna I have they are not helping. Even with my AM module, I believe it may not be as robust as in a new KO radio. I did try using Pauly's radio with his car, and it was a dream. The reaction time and feel of the steering wheel and trigger, was right on. I think I actually like how the radio felt in my hands, very comfortable.

I may be up for a new radio anyway for my regular 1/10 scale racing as well as the Mini Z. If that combo is better suited for the miniZ, I will make the switch...but most likely stay in the 2.4GHz.

I believe Jason's radio is the M8, not the M11, but I am not sure on that. He also is thinking about making the switch to KO.

The KO:M* ratio is extremely high here at the RCX race - almost all EX-10s, except RR guys running the new EX-1 UR - I've seen maybe 2-3 M8s...once the module arrives (June?) I think we'll pretty much all be going KO!

]-[ector
2008.04.20, 08:44 PM
Here's an idea, can we run multiple lap counting systems at the same time?
Overlap the pickup loops at the start/finish line and combine the results from the different softwares after the race. A pain in the ass it may be but could it work until a better solution is found?

mini-z
2008.04.20, 10:16 PM
J, I've been wanting to do a 3-way comparison like this for some time - just a test race though, not for anything "real" as the cars would be fairly loaded up w/ all those transponders etc. :)

]-[ector
2008.04.21, 08:52 PM
Instead of cramming all of the different transponders, I was thinking more along the lines of racers #1 & 2 on 27mHz count on system A, racer #3 on 2.4gHz counts on system B etc. Due to the KO system being dependent upon the 27 mHz crystals.

svt-racer
2008.04.21, 09:58 PM
I bring much great news from RCX - Philip showed me the new Giro-Z software and it's great - seems to have everything we'd need race management-wise. What's more, there is a USB interface in the works that we are apparently eligible to upgrade to for free when it comes out! I'm all for getting this system set up over the next couple of months in time for next HFAY season. Only bad thing I've seen so far was when Rod H alleges he spanked Cristian (hope he reads this! :D) but his transponder got knocked out of line so only the first dozen or so laps were counted (and, I admit, he was ahead at that point!). :D And of course we'll all have to spring for new transponders.



The KO:M* ratio is extremely high here at the RCX race - almost all EX-10s, except RR guys running the new EX-1 UR - I've seen maybe 2-3 M8s...once the module arrives (June?) I think we'll pretty much all be going KO!


That is good news. We will have to test the system. If that is not reliable enough...who is in for the AMB system? :D