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herman
2008.05.20, 12:03 AM
hmmm... did a search... but couldn't find any results...

i believe last year kyosho came out with a 2.4ghz plane called minimum...
Cessna 210 Centurion http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=101484
http://www.kyosho.com/common/image.php?id=110896

and further came out with other models as well...
CITABRIA
http://www.kyosho.com/common/image.php?id=109890

& the FLYBABY
http://www.kyosho.com/common/image.php?id=111730

it was quite impressive, in spite of the fact that there were only 3channels that controlled the plane - one channel controls the throttle; another controls the elvators which gives pitch (causes the the nose of the plane to go up or go down) ; and the last controls the rudder which gives yaw (causes the nose of the plane to turn left or right)

pretty recently though, kyosho does it again with the
PIPER CHEROKEE
http://www.kyosho.com/common/image.php?id=111917

from: http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=103626
it now offers a 4 channel 2.4ghz controlled plane... so not only does it control the pitch and yaw, the extra channel controls the ailerons which provides roll (causes the plane to rotate around its axis from the front to back)...

click on thread below for more info on yaw, pitch and roll...
http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal109/NEWHTF/PITCH.HTM

question is has anybody tried out both? i'm planning to get the piper cherokee, since i think it offers more of a complete package by having 4 channels - yaw pitch and roll.... (and the best part... you don't need a track to fly...:D)

thanks for any reviews/input..

benmlee
2008.05.20, 01:21 PM
From what I read on other posts, the Cesna 210 flys faster than Citabria, but is harder to control in the wind because of the small tail area. They both have poor range. Not a problem you fly in small area.

BTW, Kyosho is going to come out with a minium helicopter also. That would be the one to watch. It should compete with Walkera 5#3, which is also an amazing micro 4 channel helicopter.

Tjay
2008.05.20, 02:01 PM
From time to time watch our live cam... when racers are off the track to cool down or whatnot, we have some drivers that flies their heli. Sometimes 4 at the same time. It's not kyosho tho but it's 2.4ghz ;).

Hammer
2008.05.21, 06:36 PM
Speaking of 2.4GHz MINIUM series here's a new helicopter, the CALIBER 120, that looks very cool! :cool:

Says it should be available by August. :D

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/caliber1.jpg

The revolutionary innovation of MINIUM series has produced a new breakthrough in the form of a technologically sophisticated full-function micro helicopter. Similar to large helicopters, the CALIBER 120 is the first production-model palm-top sized helicopter to feature cyclic control enabled through the 4-channel, bell-hiller control system with pre-mounted gyro. Other small helicopters have only used tail-rotor and motor control to govern lateral and vertical movement, but this sophisticated machine uses a built-in swash plate with stabilizer and main rotor to allow free control for hovering, left / right and up / down movement to recreate a breathtakingly real helicopter flying experience. Optimal use of carefully tested materials result in a strong structure weighing only 30g that realizes both easy maneuverability and keeps damage to a minimum in the event of a crash. The durable main rotor can take hard contact with the ground and offers a far more rewarding flying experience compared to toy helicopters. The amazing flight performance is proof the ultra lightweight design has eliminated all barriers to real helicopter flight. As with all MINIUM models, this one comes as a completely pre-assembled Readyset. With pre-flight setting adjustments complete, simply insert batteries in the transmitter and charge the included Li-Po battery from the built-in battery charger and get ready to takeoff from your dining table for a joy flight around your living room. Imagine hovering and touching down on the coffee table! The CALIBER 120 is much more than flying a machine, it is an opportunity to experience the fascination of helicopter control!


Completely assembled Readyset includes newly developed 4-channel 2.4GHz KT-20 radio control system and special Lithium Polymer battery pack.

Automatically scans for open frequencies across a 75-wave spectrum on the 2.4GHz band for ultra-safe control. Up to 25 aircraft or helicopters can be flown at the same time.

Connects automatically once transmitter is registered to the receiver. (Comes pre-registered at time of shipment).

Transmitter features new design built-in antenna that delivers more effective signal emission.

Display shows values of the 19-step digital trim settings which are also indicated with tone signals.

Transmitter can be paired and used with 2nd or even 3rd aircraft.

Advanced design features two special servos, receiver, motor control amp and gyro in an ultra lightweight structure.

Cored motor delivers the necessary torque for the main rotor while a coreless motor produces optimal response from the tail.

Transmitter features built-in quick battery charger that can be used while the transmitter is used for flight control.

Chose Mode I or Mode II flight styles, which is shown on the display.

Push in the elevator stick to turn Expert Mode ON/OFF to use the dual-rate function for adjusting the aileron and rudder angle.

Transmitter can be used with both the MINIUM AD airplane or helicopter series. **Cannot be used with 3-channel MINIUM airplane.

Swash plate mechanism enables control movement around the roll and pitch axis, just like large size helicopters. Inclusion of gyro also provides sure control of the tail.

Lightweight structure optimizes strength and flexibility to realize an easy-to- fly, robust and convenient machine.

Transmitter also features built-in battery charger. Connect to the Li-Po battery with the charger cable and the charger cuts out automatically when battery is fully charged. Charger function can be used while operating as transmitter.

herman
2008.05.22, 04:23 AM
pretty cool... :D more of the 2.4ghz technology... :D

now if somebody can buy them, try them, and post a review on them.... :D

i'm pretty excited about the heli as well... :D

benmlee
2008.05.22, 01:48 PM
the CALIBER 120 is the first production-model palm-top sized helicopter to feature cyclic control enabled through the 4-channel, bell-hiller control system with pre-mounted gyro. Other small helicopters have only used tail-rotor and motor control to govern lateral and vertical movement,

Kyosho is not correct to say this is the first palm size helicopter to use 4ch control. They are refering only to those tiny helicopters found in shopping centers.
Walkera 4#3B has been out almost a year, and is on the second version now. http://www.rotorfever.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=86 This too is 2.4Ghz, and has aluminum rotor part whereas Kyosho is mostly plastic. I have the 4G6 which is same size, only with dual rotor. The 2.4Ghz works flawlessly. Aluminum rotor parts are well made.

However, having said that, I trust Kyosho quality more than any other companies. Kyosho tend to test the product completely before release. The first version of 4G6 was not too reliable. First 4#3 I heard was also not too reliable, but they are much better now.

mini-z
2008.05.22, 01:55 PM
Speaking of 2.4GHz MINIUM series here's a new helicopter, the CALIBER 120, that looks very cool! :cool:

Says it should be available by August. :D

FYI we plan on stocking these - you might want to keep an eye on the list of TRC communities down the right hand side around that time too... ;):D

Hammer
2008.05.22, 03:39 PM
FYI we plan on stocking these - you might want to keep an eye on the list of TRC communities down the right hand side around that time too... ;):DD, of course if you plan to stock it I will purchase here, do you have any idea how much these might sell for? I called Kyosho just to see if I could get a price for the readyset and they couldn't tell me.

I think this cool little chopper will be a present to myself, as my birthday is in September. :D

My house is perfect for this, all open beam wood structure with very high ceilings, 22 feet down stairs in the Kitchen/Dining and a large open area to fly upstairs where the Office and Master Bedroom Suit have an additional 14 feet in ceiling height which creates lots of volume! :eek: I'll have plenty of room to have a whole lot of fun with this little sucker, I can't wait. ;)

Volt
2008.05.24, 11:36 AM
The 4 channel 2.4 Ghz Minium AD Piper Cherokee is the plane I have been waiting for. Finally a fully proportional micro RC plane (weighs less than an ounce) that has ailerons. Very nice looking body recreation, and a more powerful motor with a increased thrust prop to boot!

I thought about buying a slow flyer micro RC plane ever since they appeared on the market a few years ago. Almost bought a Kyosho Minium when they first came out thinking ailerons on RTF micro scale planes could still be years away...glad I waited.

Flying a plane with roll control as well as the pitch and yaw, is a much more complex, realistic and fun flying experience. Beautiful bank turns, quick inversions, a side order of barrel rolls to go with the loops. For anyone who has flown a 4 channel plane before, going back to a 3 channel feels much more limited and toy like.

The new transmitter looks interesting, good features in an economical package. Built in lipo pack charger and the ability to change modes and control the new AD chopper as well.

I know the AD plane will have the agility and power for a full range of tricks. I wonder if the Caliber 120 will have enough power to perform some of the tricks that the larger scale choppers can do, such as inverted hovering.

Hammer
2008.05.24, 08:43 PM
A few very cool features of the Caliber 120. ;)

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/caliber2.jpg
Introduces 4-channel bell-hiller system with cyclic control to a helicopter of this size for forward/reverse, left/right, up/down maneuverability and hovering capability. Swash plate mechanism enables control movement around the roll and pitch axis, just like large size helicopters. Inclusion of gyro also provides sure control of the tail.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/caliber3.jpg
Optimal use of carefully tested materials result in a strong structure weighing only 30g that realizes both easy maneuverability and keeps damage to a minimum in the event of a crash. The durable main rotor can take hard contact with the ground and offers a far more rewarding flying experience compared to toy helicopters. The amazing flight performance is proof the ultra lightweight design has eliminated all barriers to real helicopter flight.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/caliber4.jpg
Carbon tail boom etc. contributes to the lightweight structure. Tail rotor features coreless motor for sharp yaw control.

I wonder if the Caliber 120 will have enough power to perform some of the tricks that the larger scale choppers can do, such as inverted hovering.I'm not expecting the Caliber 120 to do aerobatics, at this scale I'm very pleased to be able to experience true helicopter flight. ;)

Kyosho has a reputation for high quality and I believe they've produced another great product with the Caliber 120. :)

I will definitely be purchasing one as soon as the shop here has them available. :D

ZIZI
2008.05.25, 06:33 AM
Hey guys,

Since this is right up my alley I thought Id chime in.

No this Kyosho caliber will not be able to perform inverted flight (possibly...a loop at the hands of a very skilled pilot, but it is questionable). The reason being that it has a Fixed Pitch system, as opposed the the Collective Pitch acrobatic or 3d helis posses.

Heres a little explanation:

Fixed Pitch: Notice how the rotor blades on the caliber are bolted on, their pitch does not change (constant), the way that FP helis get more or less lift is by varying the RPM on motor and subsequently the RPM of the rotor. So If we want to go higher we raise RPM if we want to land we lower them. This is actually quite a fun system, I have had an FP heli for years (now completely blinged out :)) t is great for hovering around the house or even outside if the wind allows it. It is however the fixed pitch of the blades that prevents inverted flight...If you flew it inverted it would just get sucked into the ground.


Collective Pitch: This one is a bit more difficult to explain, but ill try my best. Where the blades on a FP blade are bolted (fixed) to the rotor head, the blades on a CP heli in a sense, are floating (their pitch changes depending on throttle position), and for the sake of this explanation the rotor RPM is constant (not completely true, as it depends on throttle curves set-up within the transmitter). Here you have 2 modes idle up and stunt mode: in idle up the first half of the throttle is usually set up to (idle up) and gives u 80 percent throttle and 0 degree pitch, anything above this half throttle you lift up with the positive pitch, when you are in the air, you flip a switch and going to zero on the throttle gives you -10 degree pitch while going full throttle gives you +10 degree pitch all at a more or less constant RPM. This is what makes inverted flight possible on CP helis.


All helicopters are extremely fun machines, I highly recommend them, just be warned it'll take time away from your mini-z's, but hey then you can sell them to me for cheap :P

Hope you enjoyed my explanation:)


ZIZI

arch2b
2008.05.25, 01:30 PM
awsome heli! something i would actually be able to use indoors. i have yet to fly my cessna due to wind/weather and even though my house is on the large side, there is no way a plane is going to amke it around without doing some damage.

ZIZI
2008.05.25, 01:52 PM
Hehe,

yeah these small FP helis are great fun indoors :)

Once you get them setup properly they can be really stable, i like hover around my room land on the tv etc. great fun!

Just outside they can be a hassle if there is any wind, had a crash today, with the small heli, was hovering about 15 feet in the air and all of a sudden a gust of wind sent it flying into my house :O , managed to avoid disaster but recovery was hard and although I landed on the skids I busted them up good, oh well time to fix it up hehe

ZIZI

arch2b
2008.05.25, 06:53 PM
well, i was inspired by some good weather and my sons good behavior today to take the cessna out for it's first flight! boy, it certainly is not easy! the first run thru the battery was sheer joy culminating in climbing a tree to get it out. unfortunately the 2nd battery run ended with the dog snatching it out of the air destroying the plane. so in essence i paid well over $100 for a plane i got to fly twice. i will not be buying a 2nd plane.

if anyone wants the electronics, battery, charger, transmitter please pm me. i can't bare to look at the stuff anymore.

herman
2008.05.25, 08:27 PM
...a 3 channel feels much more limited and toy like.
yep... my thinking as well... glad kyosho is coming out with a 4 channel plane...

unfortunately the 2nd battery run ended with the dog snatching it out of the air destroying the plane.
ouch... it must have been ned... (nasty evil dog) is there a covered basketball court /gym there somewhere? kinda sad...

Aurora
2008.05.26, 01:42 AM
Wow, the new heli looks awesome!

Never have the time and place for the full scale heli, but I mush admit I've enjoyed the cheap thrill with flying a simplest small heli, picco z. I think the great part about this toyish heli is the design; the little sucker is virtually indestructible regardless of whether you constantly have emergency landing or crashing. The only fragile part is the end tail blade, but can be easily fixed by putting on a new one.

I really do hope this new 2.4G will be just as sturdy and offer even more flying fun. And it'd be great if tracks start to incorporate some features on track to allow very friendly, small scale heli flying....

ZIZI
2008.05.26, 02:55 AM
Yeah these small helis are loads of fun.

But I doubt we'll start seeing tracks that allow helis to fly around also (lol think of the mayhem, 20 z's on track and 5 helis in the air). The first person to enter onto this scene wouldn't know whether to hit the deck or just plain run :)

zizi

Aurora
2008.05.26, 04:46 AM
Zizi,

Actually, that's a very good point. Some tracks I have went to used to allow indoor small scale heli, but decided to cancel that since it could be a hazard to drivers.

I guess the only way that it will work is if all the heli is in the form factor or size of the Picco z...then maybe it is remotely safe to fly. Otherwise, drivers will be dodging helis as their drive...and kinda like starwar training room. :D

ZIZI
2008.05.26, 04:52 AM
Yeah, and during some intense action on the track the heli pilots focus could be lost :) and then bam...

I wouldn't want to hit a fellow rc maniac with my piccolo's blades, ive upped the rotor RPM to above 2300 i hurts getting smacked in the leg with heavy pants on, a headshot would be pretty devastating, it would probably get me banned from the track :) and result in a sore rc driver...

I was not to familiar with the picco-z but have read up on it, seems like a great heli for flying around the room, my modified picc is getting pretty dangerous.

hehe
ZIZI

ZIZI
2008.05.26, 09:20 AM
well, i was inspired by some good weather and my sons good behavior today to take the cessna out for it's first flight! boy, it certainly is not easy! the first run thru the battery was sheer joy culminating in climbing a tree to get it out. unfortunately the 2nd battery run ended with the dog snatching it out of the air destroying the plane. so in essence i paid well over $100 for a plane i got to fly twice. i will not be buying a 2nd plane.

if anyone wants the electronics, battery, charger, transmitter please pm me. i can't bare to look at the stuff anymore.

Wow, completely missed your post.

Ouch man ouch...but look on the bright side now you can get yourself the heli, and not have to worry about any dogs (unless you have one at home :P). Rc flight is definitely an interesting part of RC.

BTW what is the voltage of the battery, I would buy it off you, if it is appropriate to my needs!

thanks
zizi

arch2b
2008.05.26, 10:06 AM
li-poly battery, 3.7v-70mah

Hammer
2008.05.26, 02:58 PM
No this Kyosho caliber will not be able to perform inverted flight (possibly...a loop at the hands of a very skilled pilot, but it is questionable). The reason being that it has a Fixed Pitch system, as opposed the the Collective Pitch acrobatic or 3d helis posses.Actually, if you do some research on the bell-hiller with cyclic control, this is not a fixed pitch system. ;)

I'm no expert on RC helicopters and I'm not saying the Caliber 150 will be capable of inverted flight, however this little guy has a very sophisticated variable pitch control system. Kyosho does a lot of testing in the R&D phase of a product, so I'd expect excellent performance in this case especially as they have quite a few larger helis on the market.

I'm very much looking forward to their release! :D

well, i was inspired by some good weather and my sons good behavior today to take the cessna out for it's first flight! boy, it certainly is not easy! the first run thru the battery was sheer joy culminating in climbing a tree to get it out. unfortunately the 2nd battery run ended with the dog snatching it out of the air destroying the plane. so in essence i paid well over $100 for a plane i got to fly twice.That really sucks arch! Very sorry to hear your debut as a pilot ended so tragically, I guess dogs and small RC aircraft don't mix. :eek:

If you get one of the Caliber 120's, don't fly it with the dog in the room. ;)

Volt
2008.05.26, 05:42 PM
I didn't mean to put down the Caliber 120 by talking about its aerobatic ability, definitely a very cool little machine. I do appreciate the comments from more experienced heli people, flight mechanics of a heli are far from simple. Regardless of its ability, I'll be buying one just because it's tiny, 4 channel and made by Kyosho. That and I will already have the TX and batteries to use it because the plane will be in my hands first. :D

I do feel that the Minium AD Piper Cherokee is a breakthrough for micro scale RC flight. I found this picture on another forum, good detail of the PCB and servos.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll132/Zaphod2012/MiniumAD1.jpg

Looks as though the aileron servo unit is separate from the PCB making it easier to modify for other plane bodies. Also, there appears to be an extra unused plug on the board...wonder what that's for. There are quite a few custom micro scale RC plane bodies people have built out there, quality micro 4 channel electronics is the part that is currently lacking in the market. Can't wait for July...

Hammer
2008.05.26, 06:48 PM
I didn't mean to put down the Caliber 120 by talking about its aerobatic ability, definitely a very cool little machine. I do appreciate the comments from more experienced heli people, flight mechanics of a heli are far from simple. Regardless of its ability, I'll be buying one just because it's tiny, 4 channel and made by Kyosho. :DThe physics involved in helicopter flight are very complex.

The bell-hiller system for RC helicopters has almost the control of a real chopper, it uses cyclic pitch control for the main rotor with control links from the swashplate to a mixer which then transfers the changes in pitch to the main rotor and flybar in a specific proportion to maintain stable flight. Of course the main rotor blades must be designed and weighted to provide proper lift etc., it all adds up. :)

The smaller the aircraft, the more skill it takes to fly if it's truly engineered as closely as possible to the react in the air as real thing, which in my opinion makes the equation even more interesting. :D

I just had a chance to view the vid of the Caliber 120 Kyosho has on it's website.

Here's a link, just click on the image: ;)
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/th_caliber120.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/?action=view&current=caliber120.flv)

I'd have to say they really should have waited until they had an experienced pilot before they posted a vid. :rolleyes:

The flying sequences show the helicopter more in random movements as compared to controlled flight. I'm sure they can do much better if they want to show the true flying capabilities of this machine. ;)

ZIZI
2008.05.28, 06:41 AM
Actually, if you do some research on the bell-hiller with cyclic control, this is not a fixed pitch system. ;)

I'm no expert on RC helicopters and I'm not saying the Caliber 150 will be capable of inverted flight, however this little guy has a very sophisticated variable pitch control system. Kyosho does a lot of testing in the R&D phase of a product, so I'd expect excellent performance in this case especially as they have quite a few larger helis on the market.

I'm very much looking forward to their release! :D

That really sucks arch! Very sorry to hear your debut as a pilot ended so tragically, I guess dogs and small RC aircraft don't mix. :eek:

If you get one of the Caliber 120's, don't fly it with the dog in the room. ;)

wow,cool, I automatically assumed that it was FP, from the way the blades are designed, if its CP, awesome, but unless the Transmitter is atleast 5 channel, im afraid CP is not possible, I will look into it a bit more. Yeah Kyosho's heli's are very good quality, as with most of their products, just for the 3D flight I dont see to many people flying them, its all raptors, t-rex's etc. where I fly(but this is mostly acrobatics...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NXRGY51c8o

Here guys, check this video out, he is one of the top 3d flyers in the world, it shows what a properly set-up 3d heli can :D...enjoy

Wow from the pictures I didnt realize how small it was, thanks for posting the video, damn my wallet is already aching from the pain...

First the dnano, now this kyosho is gonna drive my finances into the ground :)

benmlee
2008.05.28, 02:06 PM
[QUOTE=Hammer;304237]Actually, if you do some research on the bell-hiller with cyclic control, this is not a fixed pitch system. ;)
QUOTE]


Yes, this is not a fixed pitch system, but no, is not a collective pitch system either, so it cannot do inverted flight.

In helicopter language, a variable pitch is called collective pitch. Those without collective pitch system is called a fixed pitch.
Just because is called a fixed pitch does not mean the pitch on the blade cannot change. Blade pitch has to change continuously to make the helicopter tilt. In a fixed pitch system, when one blade pitch up, the other pitch down, so the average pitch stays the same hence fixed pitch. In a collective pitch system, both blades can go up or down, so is called collective. When both blades go negative in a collective system, you can do inverted flights.

Hammer
2008.05.28, 02:32 PM
[QUOTE=Hammer;304237]Actually, if you do some research on the bell-hiller with cyclic control, this is not a fixed pitch system. ;)
QUOTE]In helicopter language, a variable pitch is called collective pitch. Those without collective pitch system is called a fixed pitch.
Just because is called a fixed pitch does not mean the pitch on the blade cannot change. Blade pitch has to change continuously to make the helicopter tilt. In a fixed pitch system, when one blade pitch up, the other pitch down, so the average pitch stays the same hence fixed pitch. In a collective pitch system, both blades can go up or down, so is called collective. When both blades go negative in a collective system, you can do inverted flights.Thanks for the collective pitch explanation. :D It's interesting how terminology can seem contradictory at times, but I understand the reasoning now. It's all about learning isn't it? ;)

Still, I'm very impressed with the Caliber 120 (the main rotor is only 198mm), it should be much fun to learn to fly. :)

ZIZI
2008.05.28, 02:47 PM
[QUOTE=Hammer;304237]Actually, if you do some research on the bell-hiller with cyclic control, this is not a fixed pitch system. ;)
QUOTE]


Yes, this is not a fixed pitch system, but no, is not a collective pitch system either, so it cannot do inverted flight.

In helicopter language, a variable pitch is called collective pitch. Those without collective pitch system is called a fixed pitch.
Just because is called a fixed pitch does not mean the pitch on the blade cannot change. Blade pitch has to change continuously to make the helicopter tilt. In a fixed pitch system, when one blade pitch up, the other pitch down, so the average pitch stays the same hence fixed pitch. In a collective pitch system, both blades can go up or down, so is called collective. When both blades go negative in a collective system, you can do inverted flights.

Well actually on RC heli FP mean 2 blades bolted on...the pitch of the blades stays constant and does not depend on their position, what makes the blades tilt is the cyclic input controlling the flybar...


Thanks
zizi

Hammer
2008.05.28, 03:01 PM
[QUOTE=benmlee;304383]

Well actually on RC heli FP mean 2 blades bolted on...the pitch of the blades stays constant and does not depend on their position, what makes the blades tilt is the cyclic input controlling the flybar...


Thanks
ziziI think what gets confusing is the difference between real helicopter and RC helicopter terminology. :)

Thanks for the info, zizi! ;)

ZIZI
2008.05.28, 03:15 PM
not a problem :)

Just trying to put my .02 into the thread, heli's is what ive been doing in my break from mini-z's hehe

thanks
ZIZI

benmlee
2008.05.29, 01:40 AM
[QUOTE=benmlee;304383]

Well actually on RC heli FP mean 2 blades bolted on...the pitch of the blades stays constant and does not depend on their position, what makes the blades tilt is the cyclic input controlling the flybar...


Thanks
zizi

Ok, don't want to be too picky, but it is correct the blades are bolted onto a blade holder. However, blade holder does tilt which will changes the pitch of both blades at the same time. It is the change in pitch that cause the helicopter to tilt.
Here is the micro helicopter I have been goofing around with. You can see how the blades change pitch.
Note is about the same size as a mini-z, and is 4 ch.
BTW, it is a good idea to start with a dual rotor helicopter like this one before moving onto a single rotor helicopter. Or just be very patient learning to hover the helicopter.
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24917&stc=1&d=1212042847

ZIZI
2008.05.29, 02:42 AM
Ah a co-axial heli, those can be tons of fun...

Yeah the flybar and the head, do tilt, but that only changes the relative pitch of the blades. The head on FP can tilt...CP has a bolted on head where the actual blades change pitch relative to the head thats whats called positive and negative pitch.

But yeah from that point of view you are correct

Thanks
ZIZI

Hammer
2008.05.31, 07:06 PM
This has been a great discussion and I think I've finally got this figured out. ;)

With a "Fixed Pitch" control system, the Swash Plate is fixed a vertical position and pitch of the Main Rotor and Fly Bar are controlled by two servos linked to the Swash Plate which has links to the Fly Bar exclusively or to a Mixer which then has links the Fly Bar and Main Rotor to change their pitch in a specific proportion to one another.

Fixed Pitch
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/hfpcs.jpg

With a "Collective Pitch" control system, the Swash Plate moves up and down vertically. At least 3 servos are needed to control the up and down movement of the Swash Plate. With this action, all of the control of the Fixed Pitch system is retained but with the added ability to change the pitch of the Main Rotor and Fly Bar collectively which then translates to up and down movement of the helicopter instead of just changing the RPM of the Main Rotor to control up and down flight with the Fixed Pitch system. This is also what makes 3D inverted flight an aerobatics possible.

Collective Pitch
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r144/1Hammer/MIcro%20Flight/hcpcs.jpg

I know the Caliber 150 has a Fixed Pitched control system, however with it's small size, it should be a lot of fun! :D

rkk
2008.06.01, 12:19 AM
I have the plane. It flies great out in the street ini front of the house. Wish I had a gym to fly in though. It is my first 3 channel plane but it seems pretty forgiving to me. There is plenty of power to loop and unless I miss my mark it is the same motor the Dnano uses.

Volt
2008.06.09, 08:04 PM
The Minium motor is 6mm. I think the dnano motor is 7mm.

Just a heads up, Kyosho America opened pre-orders for the new 4 channel plane ready set. Some new pictures are posted on the site too.

http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/news.php?article_id=53

http://www.kyoshoamerica.com/airplanes/index.php?part_num=10751

piper1944
2009.03.30, 12:56 AM
any updates/