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schmenzer
2008.06.04, 12:37 PM
PN Racing HFAY 70-turn Season 6 Spec Motor Tests

EDIT... - GUYS, MY MOTOR MASTER MAY NOT BE WORKING PROPERLY SO THE AMP DRAW READINGS I GOT BELOW ARE PROBABLY NOT ACCURATE SO I REMOVED THEM. THIS IS BASED ON A COUPLE OF OTHERS TESTING THE MOTORS WITH DIFFERENT EQUIPMENT. READ ON FOR OTHER TESTS.

I HAVE A NEW MOTOR MASTER COMING AND WILL RETEST WHEN I GET IT.

THANKS,

GREG

I recently purchased 5 of the Season 6 Spec motors and did some initial bench testing on them. All motors were broken in on a Much More Platinum Motor Master in Break-in mode.

Step one was done with the HFAY motor on slave mode driven by the master motor on the PN Racing Motor Test Stand. The Motor Master was set as follows:


Low Voltage 1.2
High Voltage 3.5
Profile 1
Duration 8 minutes
Cooling period 2 minutes
2 cycles


Step two was an 8 minute Break-in powering the HFAY motor directly from the Motor Master using the following settings:


Low Voltage 1.2
High Voltage 3.5
Profile 2
Duration 8 minutes
1 cycle


The bushings were oiled at the beginning and end of the break-in runs. Additionally a drop of VooDoo fluid was used before the powered break-in.

#1 HFAY 70-turn Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 23,730

#2 HFAY 70-turn Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 24,300

#3 HFAY 70-turn Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 24,180

#4 HFAY 70-turn Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 23,730

#5 HFAY 70-turn Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 24,750

For Comparison my Season 5 Spec motor delivered the following after I removed it from my back up car. For what it is worth I never used this motor in actual HFAY races. It was certainly faster than the stock motor I ran but I was not as consistent and ran a lap or two less over 8-minute tests.

Season 5 HFAY Spec Motor
4.8v RPM 36,960
.95 Peak Amp draw
.92 Average 4 step (1.2v, 2.4v, 3.6v, 4.8v) Amps

And a couple of Kyosho Stock motors I used over Season 5.

4.8v RPM 33,800
2.55 Peak Amp draw
.85 Average 4 step (1.2v, 2.4v, 3.6v, 4.8v) Amps

4.8v RPM 32,350
2.93 Peak Amp draw
1.17 Average 4 step (1.2v, 2.4v, 3.6v, 4.8v) Amps

Question: 4 of the 5 motors have an average amp draw of 2 Amps or better. This is quite a bit more than spec at .481 amps and about double a stock Kyosho. Does anyone know the original spec test conditions?

Question 2: If you had the choice to pick one of the 5 which would you choose and why?

Now, on to the track tests!

Thanks,

Greg

mk2kompressor
2008.06.04, 01:09 PM
those s6 motor results seem off,you sure it said 3.07 and not 0.37(id thought they would be the latter)those figures are stock fet blowing.
of all the s5 motors i tested they were all around what you have with yours +/- 3000rpm.
all the stock motors i have not one pulls more than .60,most rpm was around the 34k mark.

ive got 25 s6 motors on the way ill test a few and compare them here

stock or s6 is the way to go,s5 was waaaaay too fast

briankstan
2008.06.04, 01:52 PM
the season 5 motors are not allowed as legal from this point out. they will give and unfair advantage with the new fet rules.

the motor is the limiting factor. You will always have a variance in the motors when it comes to a mass produced product.

if it is the case that Kyosho stock motors provide more power than all the HFAY motors I will have to look at not allowing them as they would also give an unfair advantage.

briankstan
2008.06.04, 02:00 PM
I don't have a motor dyno, but I can test the current draw on my ice.. I'll throw a few on tonight and post the results.

schmenzer
2008.06.04, 02:08 PM
those s6 motor results seem off,you sure it said 3.07 and not 0.37(id thought they would be the latter)those figures are stock fet blowing.
of all the s5 motors i tested they were all around what you have with yours +/- 3000rpm.
all the stock motors i have not one pulls more than .60,most rpm was around the 34k mark.=t

Nope, I am sure that the draw was 3.07 Amps peak at 4.8V on the Muchmore Motor Master. For what it is worth here is a sample of the 4-step Amp draw from the Motor Master I did just now to verify:

Peak Amps at 4.8V = 3.07A

Amps at Voltage:
1.2V = 1.9A
2.4V = 2.6A
3.6V = 3.1A
4.8V = 3.1A

4-step average = 2.67A

I now have over 1,000 laps over 3 different cars running the Season 6 Motor and have no problems with Stock 3010 FETs.

Greg

schmenzer
2008.06.04, 02:16 PM
the season 5 motors are not allowed as legal from this point out. they will give and unfair advantage with the new fet rules.

the motor is the limiting factor. You will always have a variance in the motors when it comes to a mass produced product.

if it is the case that Kyosho stock motors provide more power than all the HFAY motors I will have to look at not allowing them as they would also give an unfair advantage.

Brian, don't worry! On my track, and in my cars, the Spec motor is faster. I'll have more extensive test results in another thread.

I am curious what others are getting on their test equipment. I believe the Muchmore unit is accurate but don't have another device to test with. Seeing as results on other motors that mk2kompressor tested and my similar results on those same motors I'd have to say the Motor Master is fine.

Note that I did have the one motor, #4 above, with significantly less average current draw. I haven't run that one in a car yet. RPM is similar. What would less current draw do to performance? May have to test to find out!

BTW, the Season 5 Motor results were simply for comparison. I like the new rules!

Greg

mk2kompressor
2008.06.04, 04:00 PM
ill throw mine on(4 out of 25)when i get them,if anything they should be more efficient than the stock motors(better brushes)

Nic-Z
2008.06.04, 04:00 PM
those s6 motor results seem off,you sure it said 3.07 and not 0.37(id thought they would be the latter)those figures are stock fet blowing.


I know people have been racing the new season 6 motor for a while now and even on stock boards. But is the statement above correct? A motor drawing over 3 could blow a fet or a little less dramatic harm a PCB over long periods of use? All I want an unbias honest answer, I just don't want to run a motor that would have negitive affects on my car even if its driveable and hasn't blown any fets yet. ;) thanks

mk2kompressor
2008.06.04, 04:04 PM
im not saying greg's results are incorrect but im struggling to believe they are pulling that much current,dont worry too much nic,after all the same motor has been run more than enough in the pnwc

Nic-Z
2008.06.04, 04:07 PM
okay good point, I just was worried it being one of those things were no immediate problems are caused but long term use would cause adverse affects. I run all 2.4 boards with one car being stock 3004 fets. so I was a little worried about that one. So if those numbers are correct with a motor drawing that much Amps would that cut down on battery life and proformance?

mk2kompressor
2008.06.04, 04:15 PM
it would half the runtime for sure

Programmers
2008.06.04, 05:00 PM
I heard that 2/3 amps is wire melting point??

briankstan
2008.06.04, 07:31 PM
I tested 3 motors on My ICE charger, with the motor break-in Feature.

all motors tested at 5 volts. (same as 4 x 1.25volt AAA's)

Motor 1 = .44 amp current draw

Motor 2 = .48 amp current draw

Motor 3 = .47 amp current draw.

these are no load figures, I don't have a motor dyno so I can't post the RPM.

mk2kompressor
2008.06.04, 07:40 PM
thats better,very similar to a stock motor

schmenzer
2008.06.05, 12:43 PM
I tested 3 motors on My ICE charger, with the motor break-in Feature.

all motors tested at 5 volts. (same as 4 x 1.25volt AAA's)

Motor 1 = .44 amp current draw

Motor 2 = .48 amp current draw

Motor 3 = .47 amp current draw.

these are no load figures, I don't have a motor dyno so I can't post the RPM.

Interesting. I tested no load too. I wonder why the Motor Master would get such different results. It has been designed with Mini-Z motors in mind and seems to test the Stock and Season 5 motors with similar results to other tests I've read. Why would this set of motors be different? If it is off by a factor of 10 then the Amp draws would be too low if Brian's are accurate. Very odd.

Maybe we will see more coroberation one way or the other.

Whatever the actual results, the new motor is great in my opinion.

Greg

briankstan
2008.06.05, 01:07 PM
I also beleive that Phillip tests his motors with the Much More Dyno.

Nic-Z
2008.06.05, 01:15 PM
wonder if we could get someone else to give a third opinion see if we can't get some consistancy.

mk2kompressor
2008.06.05, 01:35 PM
as soon as mine are here ill test them:)

schmenzer
2008.06.05, 03:02 PM
Guys,

I just verified that the Motor Master is working properly based on some other motors I have saved data for. No changes on those and the data is right inline with published specs and other tests I've seen.

I am wondering is the Motor Master is simply having problems with this particular motor spec. Perhaps it is at the very limit of its ability to read accurately???

I can send a motor to someone for them to test and see if it matches my test results. If someone has a Motor Master I'd be really interested because it would be great to see if the results are the same or different on another tester of the same type. At least that would indicate if my machine is off.

BTW my Platinum Motor Master has V3.2 firmware in it. Maybe an update is in order??

Thanks again,

Greg

Greg

mk2kompressor
2008.06.05, 03:32 PM
ive got a motor master but im in the uk,not sure of the firmware it has.
im hoping they will be here tomorrow or saturday to test

Flashsp-2
2008.06.05, 09:17 PM
I have a Much More Motor Master Surikarn (sp?) edition. I tested my 70t and these were the results

4.8v
23,750 RPM
0.46 Amps

If you are pulling anything significantly higher than that then your motor is damaged in some way. 3 amps is pretty gnarly, my really hot handwounds (less than 20 turns) pull less than that. I would ask Philip about it, maybe an exchange or something is in order. You also may have a bit too much comm fluid on there, I have seen that do some strange things to my motors before.

I didn't do the step testing, I just used the motor test function at a steady voltage. I would retest, but I had to send the motor back (for another issue).

mk2kompressor
2008.06.09, 01:32 PM
1st motor tested,ive done this one staight out of the packet for comparason against break in and most people just whack them in:)
tested on much more surikan v3 motor master with regulated 3A power supply,

23520rpm @4.8v
max amp draw .45
average amp draw .36

overall first impressions,

exactly what i expected from a top manufacturer like PN.
good build quality(no loose endbell,brushes centred)
bushes are fitted squarely,motor shaft moves free with about 1mm end play.
well balanced arm,no nasty vibrations or exessive noise or heat.
nice neat winds,fat comm and trued well

2nd set of results
motor 1
50min break in @1v with wd40 on bushes and comm

23910rpm @4.8v
.45 and .22 draw

motor 2,
same break in as above

23640rpm
.45 and .37a draw

schmenzer
2008.06.09, 03:58 PM
I have a Much More Motor Master Surikarn (sp?) edition. I tested my 70t and these were the results

4.8v
23,750 RPM
0.46 Amps

If you are pulling anything significantly higher than that then your motor is damaged in some way. 3 amps is pretty gnarly, my really hot handwounds (less than 20 turns) pull less than that. I would ask Philip about it, maybe an exchange or something is in order. You also may have a bit too much comm fluid on there, I have seen that do some strange things to my motors before.

I didn't do the step testing, I just used the motor test function at a steady voltage. I would retest, but I had to send the motor back (for another issue).

Thanks for the ideas.

Well, it was not just one but all 5 of the motors I tested so I think the Motor Master is not reading properly for some reason.

As far as comm fluid that is not the problem. The readings were virtually the same before and after and I use very little.

So, I am getting another Motor Master and I'll report when I get that.

Greg

schmenzer
2008.06.23, 09:58 AM
I posted this over at the HFAY Season 6 thread too but wanted to leave the info here as well.

Guys,

I got a new Much More Motor Master the other day and sure enough, I am getting much similar results to the rest of you on my HFAY Season 6 motors. Sorry for the initial misinformation!

I was able to re-test 3 out of my original 5 motors.

If you'll remember the old Motor Master was showing a 3A draw!

Retested HFAY 70-Turn Motors

#4
22,800
Peak Amp .42
4-step Ave .20

#1
23,330
Peak Amp .63
4-step Ave .37

#3
23,400
Peak Amp .67
4-step Ave .35

I also noticed the RPM on each motor was about 700RPM less. Curious!

Now, to find out what is wrong with my original Motor Master. It is going in for a check up.

Greg
Mini Speedway

hpgod
2009.03.03, 06:28 AM
FYI
I have 2 of the motor from early last summer.
Both have had the comm wear down before 1 set of brushes is worn out. The com is wearing a grooove down from a fat comm to a small comm :(
One has completely died, The dead one looks to have lost ~1/16 inch from the comm.

I have never seen a comm due this before. and I have 2. Keep an eye on your comm for wear.

briankstan
2009.03.03, 07:40 AM
I just finally changed mine out from the original one I got. I've ran it for almost a year, including all HFAY Events, all our club races and two 1 hour endurance races. Not to bad for a motor that only cost $8.50

imxlr8ed
2009.03.03, 09:24 AM
After all kinds of race abuse, mine are still going ok. I've been spraying them out after every race though. I do see some comm wear, but the brushes on one of the motors are pretty much gone! I will have to order new motors very soon.

hpgod
2009.03.09, 01:49 PM
the comm wear though me for a loop. I alway kept an eye on the brushes. for the comm wear you need to look through a diifferent hole in the endbell:)