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mleemor60
2008.08.27, 08:52 AM
The new race season will kick off at High Speed on Thursday, September 4th with some significant changes for all of us that compete at the track. The free ride is over. I'm sure that there isn't a racer among us that wouldn't agree with the fact that we have ridden that mule to death. Starting with the opener there will be a $4.00 charge to race for anyone 16 and over. If you can drive yourself to the track then you will pay the $4.00. Just $4.00 period. Not per class or per car. Just $4.00. A portion will be returned to the racers in a form yet to be determined. There will be ongoing discussion to determine what we all might want.

The second change will be in the format. With this season we will only run 2 classes per night to expidite the show. Stock class will always be run. It is the foundation of the group so it will always take center stage. Gone though should be novice as a seperate class within stock. It was somewhat of a farce anyway. When the board is set we can adjust skill levels per group just like we always have but the term "novice" will be gone. I am reasonably certain that the computer has the capabilities to seed or rank drivers according to previous finishes so after the first week assigning heats will become moot.
The second class run will alternate weekly between F-1 and Mod. As interest is starting to grow in the AWD cars we can't let the show get farther out of control. For the time being the AWD's will run as Mod's. If we get a large enough group of them, they can join the rotation with the F-1's and Mod's on their own. These changes aren't to limit any individuals track time. The Shop provides us a National caliber venue to play on. The least we can do is send them home on time. Also the pressure will be off all of us to make the quick turn around for the next race. The quality of the competition and marshalling should improve.

Rules changes. Good news here. The current "stock"(sic) class cars will remain the same. No changes. They are pretty well sorted and we all seem to be happy with them. The big change is coming with the addition of the new 2.4 cars to the stock class with moderately strict limitations. The cars may be upgraded just like the existing stock class cars with the exception of the motor. The motor will be the spec PN 70 turn. The hobby shop will have them in stock shortly. The car in full PN world cup trim has been tested by better drivers than I from within our group and deemed no more than equal to our existing stock class cars. The existing 2.4 bodies pose no significacnt handling advantage and due to their fragility,they may be changed out at will to suit the competitor as long as the body has a Kyosho part number. Modified rules will apply to the 2.4 chassis with any motor other than the PN70 turn. There is some preliminary discussion on calling for a spec tire to be used by all of us in all classes. I can see both sides of the issue. I hope we leave this one alone.

Finally, The track reserves the right to decide on which direction we race on any given night and can at will alter the track layout in an attempt to keep the competition fresh and interesting. Vicki has often mentioned an oval so who knows.

Everything mentioned here has been discussed with the ownership and is scratched into rapidly setting cement. There may be additions but no deletions.

See ya at the track

cosmicsoul
2008.08.27, 10:26 AM
Well what can I say. I don't really have an issue with anything, personally I enjoy running all classes but I can see the advantage of rotating.

I agree with the eliminating the novice class, now that I am a little bit better driver. I think for the brand new guy it will make it intimidating and difficult to get up to speed though. As for $4.00 why not make it $5.00.

So will we be having 2 qualifiers and 1 main. Just wondering what the format will be.

It might be a good idea for the shop to order some LCG 98mm 102mm motors mounts. When we get some of the 70 turn motors I will set up a 2.4 car to run stock. I think a single layer of 4562's or 8858's with a Speedy 07 will be faster than the stacked 3010's that the 2.4 come with. Who know's I am going to try it out for kicks.

As long as I can beat Earl that's all I really care about. See you all next week. I am headed to Myrtle with the familia, going to run with HRDRVR (Landon) and his crew Friday.

Jay Vasquez

pedrocamp
2008.08.27, 12:25 PM
Jay, do you mean you are going to fit a single layer on the 2.4 car? Would the new rules allow running a Speedy 07 in stock in a 2.4 car with a single layer board? Hmmm...

I agree with the $4 charge (thanks Vicki and Jim) and getting rid of the Novice class.

A suggestion, I see the need for the alternating schedule but maybe we should make F1 a once a month "Special Event". Mod is more popular, most of our "visitors" race mod and it might put us more inline with the push towards the more inclusive 1/28 scale racing class. AWD's should stay in Mod but could be a class in a class ala ALMS, if at least two show up.

Look forward to racing again,

Pedro

tommy_greeneyes
2008.08.27, 12:57 PM
The big change is coming with the addition of the new 2.4 cars to the stock class with moderately strict limitations. The cars may be upgraded just like the existing stock class cars with the exception of the motor. The motor will be the spec PN 70 turn.


The car in full PN world cup trim has been tested by better drivers than I from within our group and deemed no more than equal to our existing stock class cars. The existing 2.4 bodies pose no significacnt handling advantage and due to their fragility,they may be changed out at will to suit the competitor as long as the body has a Kyosho part number. Modified rules will apply to the 2.4 chassis with any motor other than the PN70 turn. There is some preliminary discussion on calling for a spec tire to be used by all of us in all classes. I can see both sides of the issue. I hope we leave this one alone.





Hi guys, just stopping by to help and give you men more input about the 2.4 car. it is a great car to have all around. stock or Mod class. to have the 70 turn motor, in the stock class .that set-up is a fun, i ran it. so having a 2.4 car can help you ,but also having a AM board can be good to,


oh by the way , if you have a tire rule, I can tell you this, your going to take the fun out of it,

hrdrvr
2008.08.27, 01:29 PM
Mike, I know Im not part of y'alls club, but Id like to interject my .02 even if it doesnt matter, lol. I like most all of your rules.

You should maybe show Vicki the pic of our track. Its really cool having the oval integrated into the main layout so we can run either one we want without having to relocate tiles. We run NASCAR on the oval back to back with road course races with no hassle or problems at all. With all the tiles y'all have, you should be able to come up with something creative, fun and effective.

Jay makes a good point though, my thoughts to follow his :D

I think a single layer of 4562's or 8858's with a Speedy 07 will be faster than the stacked 3010's that the 2.4 come with. Who know's I am going to try it out for kicks.

I am headed to Myrtle with the familia, going to run with HRDRVR (Landon) and his crew Friday.

Jay, your thoughts are right on point. A speedy07 car with a single layer of 4562s will be a good bit more powerful than a 3010 powered 70t, no matter how many 3010s IMO. The point of the 70t (as I understand it) is to give the racers a motor that isnt effected much by FET upgrade (quantity or quailty). IMO, the motor gets a tiny bit more punch out of better FETs, but doesnt really seem to benefit at high speed, no matter the type or quantity of FETs. Of course youll notice a difference from a 3004 car to a double stacked 4562 car, but not so much from single 3010s to double 3010s. IMO, the 70t on double 3010s (stock ASF) are right in line with a speedy07 on a stock AM (single 3010) board. You guys all know the difference 4562s make in the speedy07s. Be prepared for the ASF guys to suffer that much speed loss. Maybe a little less if they up to double layer of 4562s, but itll still be slower than any speedy07 car.

I can show you the difference first hand when you get here, as I have a couple of those 70ts, and Ive still got my single 4562 car with 07 that I took to the diablo.


AWD's should stay in Mod but could be a class in a class ala ALMS, if at least two show up.

I know you guys still feel there is an advantage to be had with the AWD, but on y'alls track (I finally saw some pics recently) they would be evenly matched with the same motors, IMO. We run MAs and MRs together all the time and it doesnt seem to make a difference. On my two 70t cars (both ASF one AWD [2x2 4562] and one MR02 [2x2 3010]) my total lap count is within one, and my fastest laps are within a few hundreths of each other. I run a little faster with the MR02 which makes it better in the fast section, and I run more consistant in the tech section with the AWD, which makes it just as competetive over the course of a 5 or 10 minute heat/race. Y'alls track is even faster and more forgiving than ours, so MR02s would probably still hold the advantage.

If you all drop down to the 70t the 2wd will defiinitly hold the advantage, IMO, as the motor just doesnt have the torque an AWD needs. Once you gear the AWD to be as fast, the motor just struggles to get it up to speed. It is still fun to run, and makes hitting lines and making clean passes all that much more important. Also, the 70t motor is really cheap for getting newbs into racing, and isnt far off of a stock motor, so they woudlnt be forced to buy anything to compete (if your rules let them run stock motors).

Just like most other times, Ive probably given more of an opinion that what is welcome, but none the less, here are some more things to think about now that y'all have it sorted, lol. :D

BTW, I agree with Tommy, tire rules are no fun as they are the main set up device, and every one drives so differently. It would kill some people chances, and give others an unfair advantage.

mleemor60
2008.08.27, 02:39 PM
The intent to hold the 2.4 to the 70T is to get it introduced into the field at a non intimidating level so the Hobby Shop can move some product. Since the cars were released only 2 have been sold at the store. I bought one and Jay bought the other. From the outset there was comment of you can't run that in stock it has stacked fets. Well ok but you can't run that body cause it's an advantage. There has been some noticeable steering of potential customers toward the old technology just to avoid the inevetable onslought of new technology. As the old bits go the way of the Dinosuar it will naturally evolve into what it will. To have heard some of the commentary over the past months you would have thought that you had a front row seat at the Scope's trial. As far as F-1 goes, our group as a whole has an enormous investment in cars and parts. Probably more so than the Mods. We all know that we usually just run our stock cars in Mod and score higher lap counts. While Grant was here he showed what a real mod car can do and I think more of us will attempt it. I know I'm at least going to try.

The fact remains that the Store maintains a way above average amount of inventory for us and gives up approx. 25% of it's retail space to 5% of it's business. That is total weekly shop hours so that we can play at will. Economics as they are, don't be surprised if you show up one night and find we have been displaced to provide inventory space for the 95% paying customers. Tim Johnson is right. Support your local Hobby Shop cause you can't race on ebay. We need to take as good a care of them as they have taken of us or we will be in the street before you know it.

The initial post in this thread was made after taking time with the old guard of the group as well as Vicki and Jim. Everyone agreed that we must have some change in order to survive. For that reason no tampering was done with the existing rules except to streamline the show and make a place for the new technology. If everything goes smoothly with the transition we will only be a full season behind the rest of the country in embracing the 2.4 cars.

hrdrvr
2008.08.27, 03:18 PM
From the outset there was comment of you can't run that in stock it has stacked fets. Well ok but you can't run that body cause it's an advantage. There has been some noticeable steering of potential customers toward the old technology just to avoid the inevetable onslought of new technology.

I understood your intent in the ruling, I just dont think its the right direction to go to get people into the 2.4s. I do agree the bodies hold no advantage over any other good racing body. What I dont agree with is that itll push people towards 2.4s. If I were doing research (as a potential Z purchaser), moving to your area, and getting ready to join the race crowd, I would look into AM. Why would I pay a higher price tag for a car that is going to be held to a lower standard of motor. I could easily by an AM car, save the dough, add a single layer of FETS and a speedy and have a much faster car.

All I am saying is by having different motors for different boards, you are opening up the competition to allow some cars an advantage. If I were a serious racer looking into racing with you guys, Id end up with an AM car, not because AM is better, but because thats what I would need to have a chance at being as fast as the fast guy. With a 2.4 and the 70t no one has that chance as long as people are running 4562s and speedy motors.

Again, Im not a club member so your decision shouldnt be swayed unless you find others in your club that agree. Also, I will comply with whatever rules you guys keep whenever I get to race with y'all, no matter what they are. It wont stop me from attended whatever events you put together. I will save my AM MR02 though, so I can atleast have a shot at keeping up with your fast stock drivers. :D

cosmicsoul
2008.08.27, 03:58 PM
Whatever the rules are, however much it costs, whatever I have to drive, however much gas costs. As long as we don't take the FUN out of it I'll be there!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay Vasquez

pedrocamp
2008.08.27, 06:18 PM
Landon, and especially Jay, make some good points. I want to switch to 2.4 for the steering precision but do think that I might just might be out-motored in Stock. I will attempt running stock with the 2.4 3010 double - 70Turn combo and see how I fare.
I do agree with Mike that we can't obsolete the AM cars though.

I think we do need to adjust to help Jim and Vicki put some cars into the hands of eager racers and also encourage them to race a car right out of the Autoscale case (well OK, put some real tires on it!)

Keep it fun for Jay, he's cool!

pick
2008.08.28, 01:08 AM
Ok, I've taken it all in and figured I might as well post too :eek:. First of all, we should've been paying a long time ago. I think we all knew that and agree :).

Secondly, the new rules aren't really that different. So, I don't see too many changes which is good. The reason I say that is because we had a really good LARGE group of people every Thursday last year. Everyone had fun and no one got mad :cool:. Let's keep it that way. Too many changes will inevitably shrink the participation and I don't want to see that happen.

As far as the 2.4 cars, who cares?! As long as I'm not forced to drive one, whatever is fine :D. I won't agree that any single layer is the equivalent to a double layer of fets. Nor will I agree that the new bodies (pan cars) don't offer a handling advantage. However, I will agree that running clean laps consistently will still determine who wins :). Everyone's car will run an 8 second lap, it's an 8 minute main, so every lap clean means 60 laps :eek:. I think 60 laps will always be competitive in the stock class. So figure it out, make the rules, integrate the 2.4's as you want. Just don't make everyone else have to buy them in order to race :D.

Now for the AWD cars. 2WD and AWD don't go together. There is a reason why they are different, and not many people own them at our club. I think they are great, but they belong in either mod or by themselves. That's only fair, you don't see F1's racing in the 2WD stock class :D. Oh yeah, they have their own class ;).

Basically as others have said, let's not take the fun out of racing. Let's not try to fix what's not broken. We've had racers from all over comment on what a nice group of guys we have, and how large our participation is. In the end we're all just a bunch of grown men playing with toy cars. Keep that in perspective, be open to others opinions, and don't try to force our opinion on others. Either way, I CAN'T FREAKIN WAIT TO RACE NEXT THURSDAY :D!!!!!!!!!
James

hrdrvr
2008.08.28, 08:44 AM
I just wanted to say one more thing. I dont want to come off negative to you guys. You do have a great group, and I wish we had the same participation and skill level around here. I just really think its a big mistake to put the ASF cars at a disadvantage on motors. It would make more sense to lift the single FET rule on the AM cars than to have different motors in the same class.

Again, Ive probably spoke out of turn this whole discussion, so Ill leave any more input I have, out :D

tommy_greeneyes
2008.08.28, 11:00 AM
Landon, and especially Jay, make some good points. I want to switch to 2.4 for the steering precision but do think that I might just might be out-motored in Stock. I will attempt running stock with the 2.4 3010 double - 70Turn combo and see how I fare.
I do agree with Mike that we can't obsolete the AM cars though.

I think we do need to adjust to help Jim and Vicki put some cars into the hands of eager racers and also encourage them to race a car right out of the Autoscale case (well OK, put some real tires on it!)



just had to stop by and give my input to my old friends i use to race with. about your rules: as for your stock class,why didn't you guys have a open rule on the mini-z board(any fets) and pick out the motor you like like, the 70 turn is a good pick , its alittle slower but it will come down to the drivers skills to win,

I know from my past, racing at High speed hobbies, i know some drivers (no names) was racing a single layer 4562 fets. which on the same as 2X2 3010's . (that is the same as the 2.4 car) the 70 turn is a great pick for stock class, but open the rules for the mini-z board.

look at it like this the Technology in mini-z will alway change and get better. new things come out. if you like to go faster and be the best in your class, you may have to buy the new things for mini-z just to keep up with the best.but its always been like that in racing.Also remeber this 2.4 or AM board, it just comes down to the driver wheeling that car.
Jim and Vicki got to sale the parts. so help the hobby store:D

cosmicsoul
2008.08.28, 11:29 AM
When are the motors going to be available. I am going to put one together just for kicks. If it's too slow I will single stack the board and run an 07. who knows with the improved handling it may be the ticket for me, with the 70 turn, I think James is right the rules haven't changed much so the most important thing is to keep the momentum of what we have going, going.

Landons and Tommy thanks for your input, I wish we could get more of our members involved on the forum it is kind of dead sometimes.

See yall Thursday

Jau :)

tommy_greeneyes
2008.08.28, 11:54 AM
When are the motors going to be available. I am going to put one together just for kicks. If it's too slow I will single stack the board and run an 07. who knows with the improved handling it may be the ticket for me, with the 70 turn, I think James is right the rules haven't changed much so the most important thing is to keep the momentum of what we have going, going.

Landons and Tommy thanks for your input, I wish we could get more of our members involved on the forum it is kind of dead sometimes.

See yall Thursday

Jau :)

hey jay i remebr you , just before i moved , you was the one that brought todds mini-z right.

i was on the phone with Lara last night , and i alway talk to Mike M. on the phone with him all the time to get input, i am alway happy to help anyone, High speed hobbies have a great group of guys to races with, i may have to come back down to brake the lap record again, lol

nbon
2008.08.28, 01:19 PM
Hi Guys: Racing at High Speed is a real joy, you all are a special group of guys and you have a great thing going. You have a good selection of parts (that is always getting better), a wonderful track, a great bunch of guys who are always there to help and a couple of owners that must love what they do, because they are not in it for the money. I know I speak with the rest of the guys in SC, we love coming up and racing with you, and will continue to do so as often as we can. I think the Stock Class the way you have it set up is very competitive and affords expansion in talent and car tuning, the mod class is insane as it should be, as far as racing out of the box, I don't know if anyone does more then a week or so, we all upgrade our cars. Worring about AWD's and 2.4's is a waste of time especially since most of us lose the race anyway, and from what I heard last Thursday and read today, we are all there to have fun anyway. It makes me laugh when I get passed by James, that doesn't mean I am going to stop trying to catch him. If my car isn't up to his standards, and I can change it and still be in class I will, if it is because he is a better driver, well I need to improve. I have seen some very fast cars plow into the wall and many slow cars put in some impressive laps, I say bring them all on, it will just make everyone better, if the 2.4 is that much better believe me we will all move into the direction that makes us believe we are competitive, that's what brought me to Mini z's from Xmods in the first place, I realized that XMods suck. Right now if you put a 2.4 in the hands of Todd, James, Wade, Bob, Padro and others or a good running MR02 they would still beat me,:( so what do I care, but don't worry they are all going down, and soon. Norman:D

drsmooth
2008.08.28, 06:33 PM
So, when are the F1s going to be allowed to run again???

mleemor60
2008.08.29, 07:25 AM
Last time we ran stock and mod cause Grant was here. I guess we should start with stock and F-1. What's the consensus? Everybody jump in. Norm did you get a replacement chassis or will you need my spare til you can get another?

nbon
2008.08.31, 10:29 PM
I had one shipped in, however I think I may have fixed the one I had. If I could just stop running into the walls I think I would be ok.... See you Thursday....... Man I love this sport. By the way, thanks for the offer......

norman

pedrocamp
2008.09.01, 06:27 AM
F1 or Mod? Either. Looking forward to racing again, has the regular weekly schedule begun?

mleemor60
2008.09.01, 08:59 AM
I think F-1. I will verify with management and respond.

pick
2008.09.01, 04:20 PM
Doesn't matter to me, either F1 or Mod. Just let me know so I'll bring the right stuff :D. And, yes Norman, it would help if you quit running into the walls :p. Hopefully your driving skills in a full size car are a little more polished :eek:. Or is that why you SC guys carpool....to keep you off the road :D? By the way, ya'll SC people keep referring to the group at HSH as if you're outsiders :mad:. I think that with as many times as ya'll have raced with us, you're now officially part of us. Basically what I'm saying is there ain't no more ya'll and us, like it or not :eek:!
James

mleemor60
2008.09.01, 04:48 PM
How long does it take before they can apply for citizenship?

pedrocamp
2008.09.01, 07:35 PM
"I don’t want to join any club that would have me as a member!"

cosmicsoul
2008.09.01, 11:15 PM
I applied for my green card like 7 years ago still no response. :mad: I guess my four greenbacks will have to do for now!!!:D

Jay

kwsmith29
2008.09.01, 11:38 PM
Hey Guys, Hope your all doing well. Sorry I haven't been around much, it's been a busy summer. And unfortunalty fall isn't going to be much better. Chrostopher my youngest son is playing high school jv ball and games are on thursday nights. But have no fear I will reappear:D (trying to ryme, I'll stop). I'm not out of racing. Josh and I will be back.

The rule changes are great and all the points that have been brought up are great. I agree with all.

As far as paying to race...I've said this before, I've been either RC or slot car racing for over 25 years. I have never raced any where for free, much less have the track owners serve pizza, cookies, and drinks at no charge on occasions. So I do belive it's long over due. Thank you Vicki and Jim for your hospitality.

Hope to get back to racing with you guys soon,
Wade

drsmooth
2008.09.02, 05:08 AM
So, are the F1s running this week? Also, what direction?

Thanks.

cosmicsoul
2008.09.02, 08:05 AM
You might as well break down and get a pro-stock car as well. Let me know if you are interested I can probably part with one of mine 94mm or 98mm.

Jay

mleemor60
2008.09.02, 08:05 AM
I will find out today and post

mleemor60
2008.09.02, 03:28 PM
Stock and F-1. Most likely counter clockwise but Vicki has final say.

drsmooth
2008.09.02, 05:22 PM
Thanks. Since it's counter clockwise,:) I'll try my best to be there.:cool:

Oh yea. I have an almost new Powerex MH-C9000 for sell. If interested, I can bring it with me on Thursday night. $50.00
Just let me know.

drsmooth
2008.09.03, 03:58 PM
RATS!!!!:mad: Not going to make it this week. I'll try again in two weeks on the 18th.

mleemor60
2008.09.03, 04:23 PM
Sorry K. What is D up to? that Bug should be running by now.

drsmooth
2008.09.03, 06:50 PM
Yea, he's got the bug running now. He went to the coast with his family this week, so he can't make it down either. I thing he's really looking forward to the race in two weeks though. Hopefully, we'll both be down there the 18th.

cosmicsoul
2008.09.05, 12:05 AM
Wow, good to see everybody tonight. I had a great time as usual. Can't wait until next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay

cosmicsoul
2008.09.05, 08:11 AM
Okay so I am sure some one has checked this thing this morning. Come on guys say something anything. How about the 2.4 car with the 70 turn motor, not the fastest car out there but definately ran the most laps. Well for me the evening went well I managed to stay ahead of a Earl by a few seconds which is good enough for me. Having trouble breaking 52 laps. May be if I drive better and wreck less I will do better? Thanks James for figuring out my reverse problem. Bob and Mike thanks for the c clips. Wade, Rodney, Todd, Connor and Dale good to see you all again!

Jay

pedrocamp
2008.09.05, 08:20 AM
Good Morning Jay!

pedrocamp
2008.09.05, 08:31 AM
Actually James had a 64 lapper too in his AM car! Great run, the Heat puttin' on the heat! Great to see Todd, Wade, Josh, Rodney,Conner, and the SC hoodlums back. Lara? Looks like it will be a competitive season! My son Zak had fun, thanks for the car Mike! Just have to get done by 9:00 so Mom won't yell at me cause it's a school night.

Pedro

pick
2008.09.05, 07:17 PM
I think the 2.4 car (double layer 3010) with the 70 turn motor was a very competitive setup last night. I was running almost the exact same setup as Pedro, only with single layer 4562 and speedy 07. We both ran a 98mm Enzo. In fact, they were both red. I think we were both running reflex tires too! If you look at our lap times in both heats and the main, you'll find that the 2.4 was only .050 of a second quicker. Given, that freakin' Pedro guy is a better driver :eek:. I'm gonna ask Jim to put some banana peels and WD-40 on the floor where Pedro stands for next week :rolleyes:. Either way, I think it's a very fair comparison of the cars :D.
James

tommy_greeneyes
2008.09.06, 11:28 AM
Actually James had a 64 lapper too in his AM car! Great run, the Heat puttin' on the heat! Great to see Todd, Wade, Josh, Rodney,Conner, and the SC hoodlums back. Lara? Looks like it will be a competitive season! My son Zak had fun, thanks for the car Mike! Just have to get done by 9:00 so Mom won't yell at me cause it's a school night.

Pedro

Congratulations Pedro
on your win. i see you liked the 2.4 car. i just think if you guys just run the 70 turn motor in stock class and any fets rules, that will be the fun and great racing of the night for you guys, :D

mleemor60
2008.09.09, 06:03 PM
Back to Stock and modified for this Thursday the 11th. Again we will run counter clockwise but watch out the 18th. With a modification to the track to open up the hair pin to ease congestion it will be clockwise for the next couple of events. To make it even more interesting, I have been informed that Vicki will not be present so we will have to see if we can go it on our own. I think we can if we work together. If anyone thinks we can't do it we can just have a practice night in the new direction. If anyone knows how to get in touch with Michael H. to help with the computer it would help. That is still a week plus away so see everybody on the 11th.

dhamby123
2008.09.15, 06:42 PM
Good lord . do we have a for sure schedule for what classes are run and on what night and witch direction the track will be ran. ? i like racing but id like to know what weeks my class is gonna be ran and if the track is gonna be ran in the normal direction (the correct way) . nothing stinks more than getting ready for a race only to find out you have set your car up wrong and or finding out at the last minute that your class is not running that night .. thanks .