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Suprageex
2008.09.05, 06:45 PM
Hi,
I'm know this might sound nooby, but I really think aerodynamics on the F1 help. I read why it couldn't and why it could, and I'm thinking it works... So, here's my question; Could it do any good if I tested various aero packages on my f1 (MP4/20 is the test body) using these 2 methods:
1- Windblower and a scale (this is A*omicMods' way: http://www.***************/Categories/Article-Downforce.aspx)
2- Symscape. This is a professional windtunnel for the computer using CFD files.


Help would be appreciated

cowboysir
2008.09.05, 07:27 PM
See if you can get yourself the June 08 issue of a magaizine called "Racecar Engineering". In it you'll find a facinating article about a group of kids from a school in the UK who make their own small scale wind tunnel for designing the sleekest least resistant gravity fed racer(think 1/24th scale "Hot Wheels meets Speed Racer" carved out of wood ) for a worldwide school competition.

Unbelievable attention to detail and some fairly easy work to follow.;)

Suprageex
2008.09.05, 08:04 PM
See if you can get yourself the June 08 issue of a magaizine called "Racecar Engineering". In it you'll find a facinating article about a group of kids from a school in the UK who make their own small scale wind tunnel for designing the sleekest least resistant gravity fed racer(think 1/24th scale "Hot Wheels meets Speed Racer" carved out of wood ) for a worldwide school competition.

Unbelievable attention to detail and some fairly easy work to follow.;)

Problem is that I live in Beglium, which is in EU, and we don't have those books here. Maybe you could scan them?

ruf
2008.09.05, 08:46 PM
A fan ain't gonna cut it. Get an industrial blower used for drying carpet. Also try to straighten out the airflow. I'll try to dig up that Racecar Engineering article. Great magazine.

mleemor60
2008.09.05, 10:50 PM
Perhaps the easiest way to produce straight airflow is with a squirrel cage blower. They are readily available from places like Northern Sales or to a lesser degree Harbor Freight. They produce good constant flow within a small enough cone as to not reguire an additional venturi effect for speed increase. With both ends knocked out of a 5 gallon aquarium and decent duct work attached and with 4 small digital scales mounted in a flush floor arrangement you have attainable data. The actual numbers may be arbitrary but lift and downforce can be measured and compared from body to body. A little ingenuity could produce a smoke wand for airflow studies. A project like this was done by the late Bob Rule at Bolink in 1983. Every bolink body sold came with a data sheet for that particular body. Bolink only had one really neat body at the time, the ASA Camaro but they sold a blue million of them just because of the data sheet. I still have mine.

franciscantony
2008.09.05, 11:06 PM
How about a hair dryer in the cold setting ;-)

Suprageex
2008.09.06, 03:56 AM
How about a hair dryer in the cold setting ;-)
Yeah, tried that, but in fact, a hairdryer prob. doesn't get higher than 5kmph, otherwise you would blow your hear to the moon:D
@ Ruf; That would be great!
@ Mleemor: Any pics of that tunnel? And how can you realize the smoke?



Lots of q's, I know:rolleyes: but it's the first time I actually look at the aero-side of RC racing ^^

HaCo
2008.09.06, 05:37 AM
Problem is that I live in Beglium, which is in EU, and we don't have those books here. Maybe you could scan them?

We do have those magazines here. Where are you from Belgium? International magazine store in Leuven sells it. ;)

Suprageex
2008.09.06, 06:02 AM
We do have those magazines here. Where are you from Belgium? International magazine store in Leuven sells it. ;)

Awel, wie da we hier hebbe, den HaCo :p :D Kleine wereld blijkbaar e. Kzen van Brussel...

mleemor60
2008.09.06, 07:28 AM
Yeah, tried that, but in fact, a hairdryer prob. doesn't get higher than 5kmph, otherwise you would blow your hear to the moon:D
@ Ruf; That would be great!
@ Mleemor: Any pics of that tunnel? And how can you realize the smoke?



Lots of q's, I know:rolleyes: but it's the first time I actually look at the aero-side of RC racing ^^

No photo's sorry. As far as the smoke is concerned, home energy conservation companies use smoke pens to check for drafts and air leaks in houses while doing energy audits. Check your local Yellow Pages for a company near you.

Aerodynamics are huge on these cars. If you don't believe it just cobble up a little spoiler from the package that a white body comes in and servo tape it to the rear deck or wing of the body of your choice and see what happens.

As soon as I can get my photo's together I may soon be doing a thread on aerodynamics on another forum.

Suprageex
2008.09.06, 07:50 AM
No photo's sorry. As far as the smoke is concerned, home energy conservation companies use smoke pens to check for drafts and air leaks in houses while doing energy audits. Check your local Yellow Pages for a company near you.

Aerodynamics are huge on these cars. If you don't believe it just cobble up a little spoiler from the package that a white body comes in and servo tape it to the rear deck or wing of the body of your choice and see what happens.

As soon as I can get my photo's together I may soon be doing a thread on aerodynamics on another forum.

Okay, so I'm gonna add aero's on the car. What's the best material to keep weight down, but it has to be easy-craftable...

mleemor60
2008.09.06, 08:01 AM
The thin plastic box that a body comes in. Not the display case but the box the whole thing comes in. You know, the one that once you open it you can't get everything back in it the way it had been packed.

HaCo
2008.09.06, 11:25 AM
Awel, wie da we hier hebbe, den HaCo :p :D Kleine wereld blijkbaar e. Kzen van Brussel...

Daar zal ook wel een IMS zijn. Als je zo dicht woont moet je eens bij SRL langskomen he. We hebben daar ook F1's ;) :p ;)

cowboysir
2008.09.06, 06:47 PM
Daar zal ook wel een IMS zijn. Als je zo dicht woont moet je eens bij SRL langskomen he. We hebben daar ook F1's ;) :p ;)

I wish my grandfather had kept forcing me to learn both Flemish and Walloon...

Anyhow, you might be able to create aero tidbits but keeping them on the car during a race is unlikely.

You need to find a balance between extra aero and durability...maybe a bridge wing for the front (ala 2007-2008 F1) and additional surface area for the rear wing?

Suprageex
2008.09.07, 07:28 AM
I wish my grandfather had kept forcing me to learn both Flemish and Walloon...

Anyhow, you might be able to create aero tidbits but keeping them on the car during a race is unlikely.

You need to find a balance between extra aero and durability...maybe a bridge wing for the front (ala 2007-2008 F1) and additional surface area for the rear wing?

Yea, it's pretty easy, both Flemish and French :D

How do the guys from Mia F1 keep there aero parts on their cars then? Is the heavenly God of racing helping them :D ? Seriously tho, how DO they keep em on?

mleemor60
2008.09.07, 10:41 AM
You don't have to really add anything to the F-1's but you do need to optimize what you have. I have 4 different F-1 cars and when you set them side by side and study each one against the next you will see all kinds of anomalies. The Jordon Honda front wing was higher in the front than the back. One of the McLarens rear wings had the main element higher in the front than the back. By just shimming and twisting and shaping the main elements of these bodies can pay big dividends in handling. A Gurney flap or small wicker bill attached with servo tape can be quite durable. Just don't get carried away.

Suprageex
2008.09.12, 01:28 PM
You don't have to really add anything to the F-1's but you do need to optimize what you have. I have 4 different F-1 cars and when you set them side by side and study each one against the next you will see all kinds of anomalies. The Jordon Honda front wing was higher in the front than the back. One of the McLarens rear wings had the main element higher in the front than the back. By just shimming and twisting and shaping the main elements of these bodies can pay big dividends in handling. A Gurney flap or small wicker bill attached with servo tape can be quite durable. Just don't get carried away.

Wait, so basically what you're saying is that, for instance, the Mia F1's aren't more aerodynamically better than just adding some Gurneys?:eek::confused: