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View Full Version : PN AD and PN S02 in AWD = Problems = I need help


ProfoxCG
2008.11.24, 10:07 AM
let me tell you about my AWD
Stock ASF board 3010 FET
X-speed V
Gears 17/29 with A1/B1 Spacers

Thursday:
at the track I decived to take the X-speed and used the PN AD motor in its place, I use a 15/29 combo for gearing (which I realized in not on the list)
anyhow, after 10 -15 mins of running the car with Orion 1100 cells, the chassis was ver hot and certain parts of it around the motor had wraped due to heat.

What could have been the cause of this? my poor selection of gears?

Sunday night:
at home I took an almost new S02, removed the 103 ressistors, and intalled some 104 (3) just like the AWD x-speeds have, placed the motor in the car and drove for a few mins. the gearing was 17/29 A1/B1 spacers

The upper FETS would get very hot, I also noticed that at times, when I tried to make the car inch up rather than just move forward, I would get the typical "throttle buzz" then the car would not move, smoke would come out from either the motor or board (Im not sure). then the car would not move forward or back. On other instances the car would jolt forward while i was tying to inch up.

What is cauusing this? do I need upgraded fets on a ASF board to run an S02?

-

What is the proper procedure to run any motor in an AWD in term or installing capacitors and such?

Thanks

cowboysir
2008.11.24, 10:31 AM
It sounds like you may have stressed your board into frying the fets...I'd take off the cover and view the fets for any bubbling. I have a PN AD speedy in an MR02ASF and it's gets warm with mr02 gear ratios....it is possible the gear ratio stress could have overloaded it.

In terms of caps for AWD, 103/104 doesn't make much difference but I've always followed the stock layout of caps...one from each brush contact to motor can and one between the two brush contacts. It's supposed to cut down on frequency motor noise for a clean radio signal but being an ASF board I don't think it's too big a deal to match the original layout anymore.

ProfoxCG
2008.11.24, 10:40 AM
So you think that the S02 could have began to fry my fets?
if that is the case, was this because the ASF board doesnt support the S02 w stock fets?

cowboysir
2008.11.24, 11:22 AM
It would be hard for me to say without amp draw data but from what i remember the S02 required a min stack of 2x2 4562's on an AM board. depending on load (big gearing) it is possible that the stress of the AWd gear ratios and near limit of amp draw could have put the fets into fry mode.

The only thing to do at this point is to pull the cover off and look for bubbling:

1.Bubbling means the fets are done.
2. No bubbling means you may want to try a different motor and if that works it may have just been down to excessive motor noise throwing your radio signal off.

Lets hope it's option #2.:o

ProfoxCG
2008.11.24, 11:33 AM
It would be hard for me to say without amp draw data but from what i remember the S02 required a min stack of 2x2 4562's on an AM board. depending on load (big gearing) it is possible that the stress of the AWd gear ratios and near limit of amp draw could have put the fets into fry mode.

The only thing to do at this point is to pull the cover off and look for bubbling:

1.Bubbling means the fets are done.
2. No bubbling means you may want to try a different motor and if that works it may have just been down to excessive motor noise throwing your radio signal off.

Lets hope it's option #2.:o


well I turned the car off for a bit, then I turned back on and it worked with the S02, then I also put my AWD xspeed and it work w/out problems. I think the fets are good Im going to run home to look at them.

however, if I plan to run the S02 I should stack 2x2 4562 ? - is that why the smoke and/or "cut off?"

EMU
2008.11.24, 12:24 PM
Sounds like you could have stressed the fets with a poor gear mesh with the AD motor. There is a reason that the gear ratio is not on the charts. Then when you installed the S02, it further damaged the fets. You may still be able to use a lower power motor, but it wont be good.

Just remember that the AWD has more resistance than the 2wd. You can run almost any motor in 2wd without a fet upgrade, but in AWD you may have to upgrade the fets.

ProfoxCG
2008.11.24, 02:53 PM
Sounds like you could have stressed the fets with a poor gear mesh with the AD motor. There is a reason that the gear ratio is not on the charts. Then when you installed the S02, it further damaged the fets. You may still be able to use a lower power motor, but it wont be good.

Just remember that the AWD has more resistance than the 2wd. You can run almost any motor in 2wd without a fet upgrade, but in AWD you may have to upgrade the fets.


im not stupid to select the wrong gear mesh knowlingly. it was a mistake, but is that what you think caused the motor to melt my car?

I just looked at the fets, they dont have bubbles or anything, the S02 is working at times, I need to try fresh batteries and measure the amp draw from the S02... (does anyone know to do this?)

Tjay
2008.11.24, 04:56 PM
Check the following:

1. Check motor wire if screwed in or soldered correctly to the board!
2. make sure there's minimal drag on the drivetrain
3. take the motor pinion out and see if the car can make this motor turn with no problem.
4. try lowest gear ratio possible, then check for fet/motor temp. Should be norm operating temp. (my norm temp on my awd would be somewhere around 100F-116F)

If you like to run this motor. I'd suggest for you to upgrade your fets.

ProfoxCG
2008.11.24, 06:10 PM
thanks for you responses,

I was told that since I used the wrong mesh originally, i could have damaged the gears on the car (spur for example) which causes the S02 to bind and overstresses the board.

I m going to replace my gears tonight and resolder the motor wires.
Also,

What is the continious amp draw a 3010 fet can take versus a 4562 Fet?

Ibrake Ifry
2008.11.25, 12:14 AM
thanks for you responses,

I was told that since I used the wrong mesh originally, i could have damaged the gears on the car (spur for example) which causes the S02 to bind and overstresses the board....

What is the continious amp draw a 3010 fet can take versus a 4562 Fet?

using a gearing that doesn't mesh properly is going to decrease drivetrain efficiency thereby loading any motor more cause more amps to be drawn. Almost any motor with excess load will fry your board.

4562 fets can take more continuous amps(~6a...i think?) than 3010 but that is not going to address the original problem of drivetrain friction that awd cars are know to have when setup improperly