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View Full Version : Do F1 bodies make a difference?


EMU
2008.11.30, 12:57 AM
I had a discussion with another racer today, on the way back from racing. We were trying to think if the body on an F1 makes a difference to how the car handles.

Just wanted to do a poll, to see if you guys think if there is a difference...

I think that there is a slight difference, not as much as it is with the closed wheel cars, with different offsets. The main difference I think is the wings. Some are lower, others are higher. Older rear wings are further behind the rear axle, others are on top of the axle...

Let me know what you guys think.

MantisMMA
2008.11.30, 07:58 AM
i think that if you were to run motors that would get them up to speed they would make a difference on a high speed track. they are sooooo slow with the stock motor. i run mine on an outdoor 12th scale track and i put a gurney flap on the wing and it did seem to make a difference. i am a believer in aerodynamics even at our scale, why else would a pan body make such a huge difference? my enzo is horrible without a lexan rear wing! but when i added an under pan to it, it actually created more downforce!

VAzRACER
2008.11.30, 10:23 AM
I recently switched my F1 from a Ferrari body that I used for a year and a half to the new unpainted Mclaren, I noticed no difference in handling, however I do think the unpainted ones were lighter.

I'm not saying the different wings dont make a difference, I do think that aerodynamics do play a part at this scale, I dont shave the front lips off my ASC's because I think the do add front end downforce. I always run a 70t in my F1 so I dont think it has the speed it needs to provide sufficent downforce. Just my two cents.:rolleyes:

Suprageex
2008.12.18, 05:46 AM
Actually, aerodynamics do make a difference. Put a Toyota from the first F1 batch against the MP4-22 or the F248, and you'll notice that the last bodies offer more handling and a higher cornering speed. Theoreticaly (sp?), the bodies are the same as the 1/1 car (apart from thos horrible plastic plates they put vertically between your wheel and thenose, shave that off, it'll work). Aero starts working at 100KMPH (+-60mph), so at 1/24th scale, it'll start working at 3.571428571 kmph, which isn't to high to get on a normal track. I'm actually developing an F1 which aero's are perfect to fit a mid-ranged track

imxlr8ed
2008.12.18, 01:12 PM
I think the best body for the F1 is the one with the highest frontal wing to avoid rail stick when running on an RCP. It doesn't matter how aerodynamic your chassis is when your stuck under a rail waiting for a marshall to get you going again.

Aerodynamics is in effect on all moving objects, but I still feel that at this scale, it is so minimal an effect it can easily be compensated for by other much more important variables. Say for instance you have two exactly identical chassis set up, but two different bodies. One is more aerodynamically efficient than the other by say, 5%. Now... run the cars for 10 laps in the exact same routes but put comm drops in the less aerodynamically efficient one, which one is going to win? I just feel that a slight change in any of the other more important variables can do so much more for the cars than the aero aspect.

If anything... I would say the biggest reason a body change is noticeable on the same chassis is due to it's overall weight displacement of the body's plastic, than it is to it's aerodynamics.

Jace1283
2008.12.18, 09:57 PM
i think they certainly do make a difference, even at the speed of our mini-zs. when i was driving the enzo i could see it handled inconsistent. then i got a 350z and it was much more consistent handling. then i took the spoiler off the Z and it started to feel like the enzo. i've also experimented with 1/24 slot car aerodynamics and even at slow speeds the aero bodies make a big difference. spoilers direct air upwards(or sideways) when air is passing them. any air that is being pushed up is force thats being pushed down on your car. it can be hard to notice slight differences in aero, you'd notice it in lap times and laps per heat. big diffs like removing a spoiler, should be noticeable. at the least, knowing aero has an effect on your car should influence your body buying decisions(no enzo, yes FXX, no ford GT, yes 350z). the F1s, without a doubt in my mind, take big benefits from its aero

Suprageex
2008.12.22, 03:23 PM
put it this way; compare the times of a car with and without fr spoiler! You'll see

hpgod
2008.12.23, 07:52 AM
Bodys might not make a difference but wings and wing height definately affected corner traction do to body roll.

imxlr8ed
2008.12.23, 08:47 AM
But is it the weight of the spoiler reacting on the car or the downforce. I'm pretty sure it's the added weight of a rear wing helping the rear tires stay just a bit more planted. Try it with a wing, try it without, then try it with a comparable weight.

It's the whole scale thing in reverse when it comes to these cars... they are almost three times as heavy as they would be in a true scale down scenario (the F1s anyways). Picture it the other direction, from the Autoscale up... you would have a body shell on your real-life care that would be approximately 1 to 2 inches thick of solid plastic. I would think any direction shift or removal in that weight would cause the same thing we are seeing when we are tuning these cars.

I'm not saying it's not a combination of both things together, but I just feel that the weight contributes more to it than the aero aspect.

If I have to, I'll get a fan and 4 digital scales over the holidays and test my own theory, maybe even prove myself wrong!!! :p

hpgod
2008.12.23, 11:09 AM
I am sure I can throw the f1 on my postage scales I used to balance my 1/10ths with a fan. The height of the rear wing can be a major change in handling if the rear tire are at the edge of side grip.

Traveler
2008.12.23, 11:32 AM
All this talk about F1s is making me want to try one... Like I don't have enough Mini-Zs already (5 x MR-02 and 2 x AWD).

Cherub1m
2008.12.23, 12:59 PM
Aerodynamics is in effect on all moving objects, but I still feel that at this scale, it is so minimal an effect it can easily be compensated for by other much more important variables.

I have to agree with imzlr8ed, the wings main contribution to handling at this scale is the weight. I tried it, and placed a lexan wing on my Mclaren f1 LM it ran nice but when I removed the lexan wing and placed a penny in the rear with no wing the car felt more planted. Dont get me wrong I think both (weight and downforce) make a difference at this scale, also if you have a wide enough lexan wing you will notice a small difference, but I feel the main contributor at this scale is the weight.

imxlr8ed
2008.12.26, 12:27 AM
Larry does the same thing with his Macs as well and he says he notices a slight difference too. I've added wings to some of my cars in the past and they've felt a little more planted, but it's always more noticeable at slower corner type speeds where the downforce effect loses most of it's steam.

I'm running 3 Lexus shells right now and they are all setup fairly close to one another, but they all handle completely different from one another. One has more front bite, but that car has all the zero alloy on the front... the other has a stock front and it has more push. I've swapped other parts on these cars back and forth for a while now and with the fronts like this, they always seen to react in the same way regardless of what goes on the rear. I should probably put the heavier Atomic mount on the rear of the one with the alloy up front to see if it levels the car off. Maybe weight ratio front to back is something that is really taken for granted?... not absolutely sure myself, but it seems like that may be something to look into.

As far as I'm concerned with the F1 bodies right now... I need an unpainted McLaren because that's what VAZracer just kicked my butt with for the HFAY BTE. (I'm sure that's the reason!;))

byebye
2008.12.26, 07:52 AM
Larry does the same thing with his Macs as well and he says he notices a slight difference too. I've added wings to some of my cars in the past and they've felt a little more planted, but it's always more noticeable at slower corner type speeds where the downforce effect loses most of it's steam.

I'm running 3 Lexus shells right now and they are all setup fairly close to one another, but they all handle completely different from one another. One has more front bite, but that car has all the zero alloy on the front... the other has a stock front and it has more push. I've swapped other parts on these cars back and forth for a while now and with the fronts like this, they always seen to react in the same way regardless of what goes on the rear. I should probably put the heavier Atomic mount on the rear of the one with the alloy up front to see if it levels the car off. Maybe weight ratio front to back is something that is really taken for granted?... not absolutely sure myself, but it seems like that may be something to look into.

As far as I'm concerned with the F1 bodies right now... I need an unpainted McLaren because that's what VAZracer just kicked my butt with for the HFAY BTE. (I'm sure that's the reason!;))

I removed the wing from my mclaren and it felt a little quicker around the track. When I added a big atomic wing the car would roll more and I could tell right away. I removed it and went back to stock. Needless to say it was more stable.

One thing I try to do with my race bodies is glue up all the edges of the glass inside. I noticed it really stiffens up the body. I also add some tape to the chassis where the body clips connect so the body isn't loose.

For the F1's I've yet to be happy running one. I've owned one and race several. I think the wheel base plays a big part in handling differences between the racer and F1. I do love the looks of the aeros on the new body's and I think they do make a difference how ever minimal.

Kris

Jace1283
2009.01.10, 10:30 AM
also something to consider is that 2 of the most popular bodies right now are the sc430 and the 350z, both have very large spoilers at a proper angle. you can see kyosho is paying more attention to the spoiler than olders bodies like the NSX. The NSX spoiler is at a level angle(takata 07), not angled up enough, probably hurts the car. It's actually a pretty reasonable conclusion to say it causes more lift than downforce on the NSX. also the enzo had no spoiler but the FXX does, they made a whole other version of a car with aero.

marc
2009.01.12, 10:11 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if we can get Mythbusters in on this. Have Jamie and Adam play around with different AutoScale bodies in a home-made aerodynamic testing device. You know, like when they tested the myth about the trucks rear latch being closed, versus open, versus having a bed cover?

herman
2009.03.25, 02:36 AM
kinda cool thread....

now i hope somebody could post some laptimes of bodies they've tried... to see if there really is a difference...

how about an experiment....
make two bodies...

body one - a cube or a rectangular box shaped body... nothing fancy... just plain and simple cube or rectangular box shapped body...

body two - a spherical or egg shaped body...

which would go faster? or which would have a lower laptime?... interesting eh?

herman
2009.03.25, 02:37 AM
You know, like when they tested the myth about the trucks rear latch being closed, versus open, versus having a bed cover?
hmm i remember seeing that one... kinda forgot which was better....

EMU
2009.03.25, 02:50 AM
All that I know, is that at the KO race in practice on Friday I ran an old Schumacher Ferrari body. It ran horribly... On Friday night I changed the body, and a few other parts (which arent important, like Diff and tie rod :p ) and the car ran very well. I held TQ in the 2nd round, and was bumped to P2 in the 3rd round (Ruf wouldnt give me the opportunity to start from pole). The body made a huge difference for me. I cant really comment about aerodynamics, I think it was more about visibility and confidence in being able to see the car better, and liking what you saw more. The 2nd body is custom painted, a bright orange (pic in the F1 picture thread). It was a McLaren Kimi style whitebody. I used the black McLaren front and rear wings because the originals were no longer in one piece.

edhchoe
2009.03.27, 12:10 AM
Run with no body. The car will be faster.