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Red Team
2008.12.10, 04:19 AM
Hello,

I just seen on the web this competiton organized by Kyosho.de, next year between 28 February and 1st of March and I put myself on the driver list immediately.

As I could see after that, 120 drivers will gather from around the world, mostly Europeam countries: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Nedelrland, Czech Republic, Romania, Japan, France, Philipines, looks a bit like an European Regionals and it's at 3rd edition I guess.

I was surprised to not see people from Spain, GB, Sweden, USA or Portugal on the driver list, maybe the race was not advertised in those countries.

The track will be RCP, over 100 meter long and it looks pretty impressive. I manage to make a slideshow with some pictures from this year race. You can see it HERE (http://picasaweb.google.ro/minimicrorc/InternationalMiniZMasters2008#slideshow)

More details can be found on the kyosho.de site or HERE (http://www.kyosho.de//event/index.php?framenennen.php?id=285)

Does anyone from this forum ever race in this competition ?
As I'll go there for the first time, actually for the first time to an international competition, I don't know what to expect and some tips and hints will be apreciatte it.
I'll put myself in the Standard - Stock class where only bearings, tires and H plate upgrades are allowed. Also you can use a different TX instead of Kyosho. Other than that, everything else should be box stock, which I found great...less money to spend :D
As my MR02 it's fetted and PN upgraded, I'll need a new RTR set and here coems the questions: what WB do you guys recomend for such track ? I'd say 94mm but you guys here are the experts, so please, give me your input.
Does anyone tried to use the 98mm MM Kyosho plastic motor mount in 94mm MM configuration ? Since the Hplates could be changed, I would try to make new ones to fit this WB.
As a body probablly I'll go with '07NSX Test car, but not sure yet.
For the wheel & tires I would go for the RR SSG ones in the rear ( PN in the front ) and Avid bearings, paired with R1Wurks batteries.

Please, give me some feedback...any input wil be highly apreciatted, thank you !

iulian

herman
2008.12.11, 11:57 AM
big, no huge track... wonder how long are the laptimes...

at any rate, good luck and don't forget to post pics...

Tjay
2008.12.11, 01:34 PM
what WB do you guys recomend for such track ? I'd say 94mm but you guys here are the experts, so please, give me your input.
Does anyone tried to use the 98mm MM Kyosho plastic motor mount in 94mm MM configuration ? Since the Hplates could be changed, I would try to make new ones to fit this WB.
As a body probablly I'll go with '07NSX Test car, but not sure yet.
For the wheel & tires I would go for the RR SSG ones in the rear ( PN in the front ) and Avid bearings, paired with R1Wurks batteries.

Please, give me some feedback...any input wil be highly apreciatted, thank you !

iulian

I would assume you guys are running stock motors (box stock) or equivalent.

Here's what I would do:
-maybe bring 3 bodies.
1. SC430= easy to drive, very neutral and front bumper is rounded. High speed cornering.
2. F360 non-GTC= Fast in field.. very twitchy. Good in transistion. Great for technical track. On/Off cornering.
3. Audi A4= if you need corner speed I would suggest to use this body as I have not beaten my own best time with any other body but audi. Great for 180 degree turns and short sweeper/hooking turns.
-polished king pins (if legal)
-grease/lube your stock shock
-cut open/put holes on the motor mount to cool it down during the race (if legal)
-with the stock knuckles, it should already give you enough steering with kyosho 30 slicks but if you need more steering, go with the kyosho 30 radials up front. Rear I would use the kyosho 20 radials but do bring RR SSG tires just incase more traction is needed.
-Haven't had time to test those new R1 matched cells but I hear a lot of good things about it. Before going there, I would test the orion 750's charged at .5 amps. They're the best punchiest batteries for my stock car (PN stock spec) right now.

Before I forget, ofcourse run it in 94mm Mid Mount config.

Just my opinion. Good luck!

EMU
2008.12.11, 01:55 PM
Be sure to check the rules list to see what options you may use for setup. I know that the Kyosho cups that were run in the US, only Kyosho option parts were permitted.

The stock plastic MM mount and the LM mount will not work for 94mm MM.

If you cannot use the 94mm MM mounts (PN, Atomic), I would recommend using a 98mm wheelbase over 94mm.

Red Team
2008.12.11, 02:59 PM
Thank you guys for your support and input ! We'll need a lot of luck, but since it's our first experience at this level, I expect to learn a lot !

The class where I'll race it's Kyosho stock spec where only tires, H plates and bearings are allowed, but HERE (http://www.kyosho.de/shop_image/attachment/a8ea3f0e3cd14b66f12c0e0887987710.pdf) are the rules.

@Herman, be sure I'll post pictures !

@Tjay, great suggestions, F360 was my first Mini Z body and for sure it's a great one...unfortunately, at a second reading at the rules I've seen that I can't dremel the wheel wels, so I have to stick with either 94mm or 98mm, no messing around !
Also, the regulations it doesn't say a lot of things...I don't know how to take this, those missing issues are legal...or not ? For instance, polishing the king pins...it says should be the stock ones, but not that you can't polish them.
Over here we're not using much Kyosho tires, mostly only PN ones, but this time I'll have them with me !
I'll try also the TO 750 batts, but reading here that many had venting problems I was a bit skeptical. I remember having the same problem with some 750 Intellects, a while ago.

@Emu, I'll read the rules several times to make sure I'll not missed or misunderstand something.
So, you're experience says that using 98mm on this course will be better...any particular reason why ?

Thanks again to all of you for your support !

iulian

@yasuji, great idea, I already have a LM back end, but they call this bodies " Group C " and in the standard rules they say: " only original Kyosho Touring and GT bodies are allowed ", so I don't know if using the Mazda will be legal !
I'm a PanCar fan too, in our club race, I run only PN Pan Body, and I convince many of the guys to do it :D

EMU
2008.12.11, 06:33 PM
If I had to choose between 94mm RM and 98mm MM, I would choose the 98mm MM. There are no Kyosho 94mm MM mounts, so if you are limited to only using Kyosho parts, then I would choose 98mm MM.

The track sounds large, where the longer 98mm wheelbase may prove to run better than 94mm.

Red Team
2008.12.12, 06:52 AM
Thanks Emu.
If I'll choose to race a 98mm car ( though, till now I had only 94mm ), according to what Cristian said HERE (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=325946&postcount=95), I should choose the Aston Martin body.
I like more the Murcielago or the McLaren F1, but I'm not having experience with any of those 3, so I better order them and try them on the track, before the big race.

Tjay
2008.12.12, 12:47 PM
Sorry. I'm not familiar with stock (box stock) racing. Anyhow, I would go for the McLaren for 98mm config. Forget the RM... I haven't tried the Aston Martin myself but I was told by CT that it is a good body. Feels like the 360GCT.

The 750's TO that I have (3 sets) did vent out but that was because I was charging it at .7 mAH. When I start to charge them @ .5 there was no false peaking or vent/leak on the cells and the punch was still there and lasted 12-15 mins of punch on my ATM stock spec car.

yves
2008.12.12, 04:10 PM
I was surprised to not see people from Spain, GB, Sweden, USA or Portugal on the driver list, maybe the race was not advertised in those countries.

Does anyone from this forum ever race in this competition ?



This contest is sponsored by KYOSHO.DE, Germany is not the official supplier for the countries you have listed (Spain, Portugal...)

We did last year...

Greetings from Belgium.

Red Team
2008.12.14, 01:11 PM
Yes Tjay, the new McLaren F1 GTR (http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/body_detail.html?product_id=104513) hook me up ! Definetely I'll try the TO 750's !

Yves, thanks for explanation !
Do you come again in 2009 ?
Would be great if you can share with us some impresions about this race, to know what to expect, thanks !

iulian

yves
2008.12.14, 03:06 PM
Expect some very fast top ten (maybe 11, 12, 13...) qualifiers and lots of people racing just for fun.
Go for the car you feel the most comfortable with, MM's where fast... some RM's even faster... in standard ENZO was the way to go.

Rules in "standard" are very clear; only ball bearings and optional H-plate (any brand that is)... the rest as it comes out of the box.

Red Team
2008.12.14, 03:59 PM
Hmmm...may be this year the FXX will be a popular body in the standard.
Also, as I understand, in this class the tires & rims can be changed, isn't it ?

yves
2008.12.14, 04:29 PM
Also, as I understand, in this class the tires & rims can be changed, isn't it ?

Rims; only plastic rims are allowed (no alu, steel, wood...)
Tires; only rubber tires are allowed (no foam)

For both rims and tires; all brands allowed.

Good luck.

RCPMini-z
2008.12.14, 07:17 PM
Thanks for the pics. Very impressive layout for the 2008 race. Look forward to seeing pics from next years event.

RobbyDV
2009.02.18, 05:58 AM
For those who were still in doubt entering the event, the organization just added some extra start places;

Dear Racers,

we have decide to shorten the time between the heats at the International KYOSHO Mini-Z Masters 2009.
So we fixed the possibility for more drivers to attend this huge indoor event in Fellbach.
Tomorrow you will see an updated drivers list on our Homepage.

At the end we have added 20 startplaces in Standard, 10 in Expert and 10 in Group C.
That's totally in Standard 50, in Expert 50, in Group C 40 and in Fromula 1 20 startlicenses.

The entry fee will be paid at the race track on Saturday morning at the drivers registration.

We hope to see you in Stuttgart next weekend at the Internatinal KYOSHO Mini-Z Masters 2009.

Very best regards
Thomas Hofmann


On line at http://www.kyosho.de/event/index.php?report_id=480 and then go to "zum online nennformulier"

Red Team
2009.02.18, 11:23 AM
Red Team Racing will be there !

Red Team
2009.02.28, 10:46 AM
Although I was not able to make the trip, my brother and 2 other friends are there and I have some fresh news from this race. Pics, when they are coming back ;)

Yesterday, the organizers start to mount the track and today at 9.00 sharp, they were able to start free practicing. At the beginning was a bit crowded to have all over 100 drivers rushing to the track but very soon they realized the frequency interferences will cause problems and they organized all the racers in groups of 10 or so, according to their crystals.
This was much better and each group was able to get 3 runs of 5 minutes of practice during the morning, without worrying about anything else but the car set-up. Our team was a bit surprised to find a very narrow track on many parts, except the long straight and they are not very used to such small width. Looks more challenging. Also they found the track grip being very low and the only rear tires that worked for them were the 6' from PN. At our track at home #10 straight cut, will do great.
In the standard class, were our team goes, TQ has ~17 sec / lap and one of our guys makes only ~20 sec/lap. Ok, we are first time to such big event and hopefully we can learn and improve a lot.
Today will be 2 heats for each class and tomorrow 2 more, plus Mains.


More to follow....

Red Team
2009.03.01, 02:11 PM
After the second day of the competition, our team got into C & D Mains, but at the time we spoke, the results were not posted yet, so they know they were somewhere between 25th and 35th place.
Today, the race was not so well organized as yesterday, but overall was an exciting and usefull experience for 3 of the most successful Romanian 1/28 racers.
As you can see from the pics*, the difference from our drivers and the top was consistent, but this event showed them where they are comparing with the some of the European racers and what they have to improve to get better results.
We hope that next time, Romanian team will be more consistent and the results will be better.

More info and pics after they come home.

* pics courtesy of http://www.slotracersleuven.be/minizblog/

WeBoC
2009.03.02, 09:15 AM
Hi,
We had a belgium deligation of 5 drivers(normaly 7 would have gone, but 2 did'nt made it).

It was a nice event but the Lap-z system they used did'nt work :(
Luckly one off the belgium drivers (who host a belgian championship) saved the day by using his software and helping them out.

We did wel but could have done better :D

After the qualify this was our result:
Expert
A-Finale: 3) Robby De Veirman, 4) Roy Cop, 6) Steve De Blaere, 9) Kris De Ridder
B-Finale: 1) Arno Henkens (that's me ;))
Group C
A-Finale: 1) Arno Henkens (that's me ;)), 4) Steve De Blaere, 5) Robby De Veirman, 6) Roy Cop
B-Finale: 2) Kris De Ridder
Standaard
A-Finale: 4) Roy Cop
Formula 1
A-Finale: 3) Kris De Ridder

With me being on pole for group c (LMS) I took the first of the 3 A-finales, came 5th in the second and 3th in the last one.
Leaving me on the third place overall. I had made to many mistakes and runed my shot to take 1 place :( To much stress :p

Kris took 3the place in th F1 as well.

But taken 10 top ten finshes with 5 people (1 standaard, 4 expert, 4Group C en 1 F1) in 4 classes in not a bad result ;) Certenly if you take into acount that only 2 of us missed a a-finale spot just by a few seconds.

I don't have the full results because it was runing very late and we had to drive another 5 hours till we where home.

Whatch out for a nice report on HaCo's mini-z news site http://www.mini-z.be
Some foto's are already online ;)

Red Team
2009.03.03, 03:10 AM
Congratulations to all the winners !
Our team had an interesting and usefull experience at this race.

taisantobi
2009.03.03, 05:27 AM
Hi my friends from belgium,

special greetings to roy cop, incredible job at the timing system, thank you once more!

here are the results from my point of view:

Standard:
Qualifyings: second place
1. final: 1st of hearts (5th officially, beacause my transponder didn't count the first lap :mad:
2. final: 1st
3. final: second, because i hit the wall 3 times in the last round because of distortions :mad:
second overall :)

Expert:
Qualifyings: second place
1. final: 2nd
2. final: 3rd, had to rebind my car befor start, had to start from tenth, after the long straight in the first round stuck under the wall
3. finale: 1st, 8 sec. befor the strong austrian eder
second overall

group c:
Qualifyings: 7th
1. final: 5th, Atomic Stock instead of r installed, no power, wheel not fixed befor start, had to start from 10th,
2. final: 2nd, hit by competitor in the last round
3. final: 1st fastest lap group c (18.05 sec.) and nearly 17 laps. Fastest run of the whole weekend
second overall

a big thank you to Sven Ross from www.atomic-shop.de and Cristian Tabush from reflex racing for their great support!

Tobi

WeBoC
2009.03.03, 06:01 AM
Hi Tobias,
Very strong run in the last a-final of Group C.
I was able to come back at Gunther (if that is the name of the felow who came first overall) but wasn't near quick enough to come even close to you. I kept it simple for me and ran x-speed as we run those at the championship here in belgium.

I noticed that you switched from the Mazda to Porche body. Noticed any difference?

taisantobi
2009.03.03, 06:28 AM
no, i didn't switch the body. i just changed a little on my transmitter. a little more expo and less steering, that was the trick! so only in this run i could show the total potential i normally have. because the track was so slippery for a rcp track, it was nearly impossible to find the grip you need for stronger motors then the atomic stock or xspeed. my car was really really hard to drive. i never had a so sensible car.

Red Team
2009.03.05, 07:29 AM
Till we've got our pics ready, HERE (http://picasaweb.google.ro/minimicrorc/InternationalMiniZMasterStuttgart2009#slideshow) you have a slideshow with pics from Kyosho.de and the translated Babelfish version of the race:

Straight experiences the mini z scene in these days an enormous upswing. Since meanwhile 10 years this vehicle category was established and a firm fan circle on the entire globe conquered. This becomes also clear regarding the mini z Racing Events. One the largest Events of its kind takes place in skin brook close Stuttgart. On the past weekend the second KYOSHO could here already take place internationally mini z of Masters. From a liquor idea one became world-wide the impressing mini z Racing meetings. However the arena is already world class. „The old person Kelter “in skin brook is a framework arena year old over 100, which was fundamentally reconditioned before 10 years. The ambience is typically Swabian with urigen accents. A unique location for this kind of Racing Events. In the arena, which over 2000 square meter meters covers, has the aligning association, which combines MCC skin brook, a Lokalmesse with the largest mini z course of Europe. On 112 square meters the well-known and popular KYOSHO mini z course system was developed. In 2009 the distance layout was completely changed, in order to be sufficient for also elevated requirements. Altogether a breath-taking distance, which the pilot all demanded. One could observe many participants, who admired the first time this course and only „a Wow “brought out. Because with usual yardsticks this plant does not have to do anything. Everything is Superlativ in skin brook. A further highlight are the numerous attractions and the multicolored master program of which MCC the skin brook under line of the chairman Rolf Krauter on the legs placed. No matter whether local companies presented, those their offer or mad exhibitions, like the 2er 911 Cup Porsche became, to everything meant. Also the numerous demonstrations of the Cheerleader inspired the public on the new like also the present pilots. Completely particularly was also the Catering. „Luigis “Catering service from Graz took on specially the far way to be made happy in order pilot as also the visitors with the best Austrian specialities. And that succeeded to 100%! There are probably rarely as leckere and decoratively arranged meals on a RC-Event as in skin brook the case was here. Like that it was special the complete package, „old person Kelter skin brook “, which inspired. Scarcely 100 drivers from 6 nations found the way after skin brook. Among them pilots from Czech Republic, Romania, Belgium, Austria, Holland and the host Germany. Altogether 4 classes one delivered: Standard, Expert, group of C like also formula 1. in such a way participated for each taste like also for jedwedes fahrerische potential something. Remarkably many pilots started equivalent in different classes, some in all 4 categories. In all classes the level was very high, yet particularly also many a risers participated and let themselves from the virus mini Z inspire in the standard category. The Event started on Saturday morning with the registration and the expenditure of the popular KYOSHO Event shirts, which were made particularly for this running. Then it went directly into free training. On Saturday then the first advances stood on the program. Unfortunately there were some problems with the round counting plant, which could be solved however with the help of MCC skin brook and the super support of the Belgian participant Roy copilot at the beginning. Already in the advances it showed up that everything should run out on a duel Tobias Sporys and Jürgen Bähr. Even in the standard class they drove round time by 19 seconds. In the Expert category the mini z experts made of Austria, Erwin and Markus Eder advanced, the measuring pole from the beginning much. Both set chassis on the AWD and showed thereby a performance, which was incomparable. Markus Eder succeeded to drive it in such a way as an only pilot round time under 18 seconds. The group of C ran out on a duel Belgium against Holland, whereby the similar suspects could be valid as in the standard category as favorites. Load but emergency leases was also 14 pilots of the formula 1 category at the start. There Nicolai Bähr, Kris de Ridder showed like also Sascha Schmidt a mad performance. After in the Saturday afternoon due to a defect of the time measuring system a break had to be pushed in, could be in the evening further trained. After the running day after 20.00 o'clock found an end could it to the marvelously organized Driver party go, which was used by many participants. Thus partially until late into the night, screwed and the letzen trips left only after midnight the driver camp was talked shop. Running Sunday was then again full-packed with exciting Racing, close Fights and mad spectator backdrop. In the standard category could become generally accepted finally Jürgen Bähr before Tobias Sporys and Falko Thorhauer. Altogether the standard category was madly occupied with 39 starters and it Racing on a very high level was ordered - with nearly standard mini z models. The Expert category became - nearly as expected to the starting goal victory for Markus Eder, which won the first two final sovereign and then with the 3ten on a map set everything and new round record with 17.8 seconds drove, then however the vehicle to the physical borders brought. It won before Tobias Sporys and its father Erwin Eder. In the decision in group of C Jürgen Bähr could finally keep the upper hand before Tobias Sporys and Arno Henkens. After following winner honour and still unite words of Rolf Kauder could the participants still the tombola of prices in receipt take, whereby here the team Czech Republic had probably good maps with the Glücksfee, because so approx. 50% of the prices went to our neighbours. Thus it became then nevertheless over shortly after 20 o'clock, until most could begin the participant up to 1000 the kilometers long home journey. All in all a further supervent in skin brook in the old Kelter. The thanks are entitled to the supervisors Rolf Krauter and the FCC skin brook, without whose support this unique mini z would not have been possible highlight. Pictures with friendly permission of Pecka/CZ

Results:

STANDARD (http://www.kyosho.de/shop_image/attachment/ed7c6f42705e5ab4b53bebbe7112e891.pdf),

EXPERT (http://www.kyosho.de/shop_image/attachment/8bade83fab2ef6886ebd4d139da68c9d.pdf)

GROUPE C (http://www.kyosho.de/shop_image/attachment/f34bdf4a14e75a0ff1dfc25d96e05792.pdf)

F1 (http://www.kyosho.de/shop_image/attachment/b8dbfe2e5ad509a7dc0090440709382a.pdf)

RCPMini-z
2009.03.05, 10:26 AM
no, i didn't switch the body. i just changed a little on my transmitter. a little more expo and less steering, that was the trick! so only in this run i could show the total potential i normally have. because the track was so slippery for a rcp track, it was nearly impossible to find the grip you need for stronger motors then the atomic stock or xspeed. my car was really really hard to drive. i never had a so sensible car.

I am curious why the smooth side of the track was used. That is the slippery side. PN Racing and most clubs here in the US use the rough side, which provides the grip needed for the stronger motors.

Quite possibly the organizers of this event wanted the loose condition for this event? Using the smooth side is one way to control the speed of the cars, similar to the restricter plate in NASCAR racing events.

WeBoC
2009.03.06, 03:43 AM
I am curious why the smooth side of the track was used. That is the slippery side. PN Racing and most clubs here in the US use the rough side, which provides the grip needed for the stronger motors.

Quite possibly the organizers of this event wanted the loose condition for this event? Using the smooth side is one way to control the speed of the cars, similar to the restricter plate in NASCAR racing events.
I cann't speak for the organisation of this event.
But while we at SRL drive on the rough side on our mini-96 with expention packs there are several club's in Belgium which prefer the smooth side.
Some off the drivers claim that the rough side has inconsistent grip while the smooth side is very consistent. I'm not so developed yet to notice this :D because the only thing I notice is that the rough side has more grip. And the smooth side has far less steering.
That said, I've to say that we drive on, what you would call, very small tracks. We consider this RCP track as very large over here:
This is the track at Liege:
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6567/sv102941.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2130/sv102942.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/474/sv102943.jpg

And the RCP track at The Mini-Z Masters as hughe :D

Our championships let us only use an x-speed and most off us drive with the max gear ratio of 5,500. So maybe that's why the grip on the smooth side is considerd good enough by those who prefer this side???

Perhaps Tobias could give ushis view on the situation in Germany and RedTeam of the situation in Romania?

Red Team
2009.03.06, 05:20 AM
In Romania we race mostly on carpet...it's cheaper and easier to find. And our track it's rather small, you can see it here (http://www.redteamracing.info/2007/11/pista-128-imagine-finala.html) or here (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26684&highlight=romania). It's only 7m x 4m.
Howevwer, at our Winter Cup back in December (http://picasaweb.google.ro/minimicrorc/CupaDeIarna2008#slideshow/5283041115631154226), we set up an RCP 2 Wide L track, but of course with just 2 L's, we can't make it big, in fact we felt it smaller than our carpet one. I guess this was happend because of the bigger RCP rails which visually decrease the width of the track.
Speaking of the track side, we race it on the smooth surface as well, but at that event we had hand out PNWC motors, so power was limitted.
I can't speak of the rough side of the RCP, cause we never use it, but we liked it on the smooth side, especially cause we could use very succesfully the PN carpet tires :)
After the guys seen the HUGE track in Fellbach, I heard them speaking of buying 2 more RCP tracks and set up a bigger track, so we can be on par with the other drivers which have more experience on the RCP.
That's why I'm looking forward to see the new RCP " worm rail " type of track (http://www.mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31092), so maybe we could make a nice, big, carpet alike, course. Or, at least, a carpet track with RCP rails worm rails.

Although I thought carpet rules in Europe, I'm seeing more and more clubs and major competitions here in Europe, going for the RCP.

Red Team
2009.03.06, 10:17 AM
First video of the main it's online HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQd9Zm82Ufw) !

It seems to me that the drivers stand was a bit crowded and need to be larger ?
Also, I've been told that the marshaling was not very eficient, to say the least.

LE: 2 more videos, HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpEnvyZDjgw) & HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAWbt_9SURU)

Red Team
2009.03.09, 08:32 AM
Here (http://picasaweb.google.com/lucian1974/MuzeulMercedes#slideshow) is a nice slideshow from Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart.