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JuniorWKR
2009.01.12, 01:54 PM
Im new to F1 and really enjoy the class. I was looking for some tuning techniques to make my F1 more competitive... Right now im running on RCP... I also purchaded all the bells and whistles - i.e: rear pod, side discs, top shock, front kyosho 40's and rear kyosho 10's... converted to 2.4... my major problem right now is the car spins out due to the rear... i checked all cleareances and nothing is hitting in thr front nor is the chassis bottoming out... any input would be greatly appreciated...

briankstan
2009.01.12, 03:28 PM
the Kyosho 10's are typically not a good tire for RCP.

I would change the Kyosho 20 rears, or pick up some PN 6 Rear ribbed tires. this will fix most of your spinout issues. I would also go with the Kyosho 30 fronts if you require more turning.

you might still have some spin issues, this would be due to tweak. you man need to shim you suspension plates to eliminate the tweak. you will want to use the PN shim set and adjust slowly.

as suspension neutral you need to shim so both front tires lift off the ground at the same time. use a small screw driver and lift from the center of the front wing, it's it bad you will notice it right away. it's pretty typical for it to be out.

Hope that helps you out. :)

EMU
2009.01.12, 11:50 PM
I personally like the Team Kyosho front slick tires, 20d or 23d. With Kyosho radial 20d rears. If I need a little more front grip, I add a few grooves myself. I think that having grooves molded in perform completely different than grooves cut into the tire. My grooves are very narrow and not very deep. I like the rear tires after the grooves wear out, I think there is a little more grip.

My F1 has a little oversteer, but it is very controllable for me.

What differential do you have?

Pierro
2009.01.13, 01:50 AM
Hello!

For my personnal F1, I use atomic 30 on front and kyosho 20 on rear.
As the tires wear out, they work better so be patient and wait a few pack to see the tires at their best.

Don't forget to check out for tweak (you can find some detailed post in this section).

And enjoy your F1!

JuniorWKR
2009.01.13, 08:28 AM
Thanks for the info guys... i worked on my car all night last night and im now running kyosho 30 groove fronts and kyosho 20 groove rears... ive been running mini-z for a while now but this is my first F1... the car handles and tracks amazing... but for some odd reason no matter what i try to do the car violently spins out when turning left... fast, slow, on power, off power, diff tight, diff loose, no matter what when i turn left it spins (i can do donuts to the left, but when turning right its dead on)... ive check everything, binding, bottoming out, diff, remote, and i just cant figure it out... please help!

EMU
2009.01.13, 12:29 PM
Check that the differential is not binding on the motormount. Also, you may have to remove tweak using shims between the side plate and the motormount. Most F1's spin to the left, and need to be shimmed.

JuniorWKR
2009.01.13, 12:38 PM
Check that the differential is not binding on the motormount. Also, you may have to remove tweak using shims between the side plate and the motormount. Most F1's spin to the left, and need to be shimmed.

does it need to be shimmed due to the amount of weight that is on that side?

ruf
2009.01.13, 12:46 PM
Nope. Usually needs to be shimmed because the chassis is deformed. I usually heat and straighten a new chassis when I build an F1 from the ground up. The shimming works fine though. 0.5-1.0mm between the right side plate and motor mount should do the trick.

JuniorWKR
2009.01.13, 01:33 PM
Nope. Usually needs to be shimmed because the chassis is deformed. I usually heat and straighten a new chassis when I build an F1 from the ground up. The shimming works fine though. 0.5-1.0mm between the right side plate and motor mount should do the trick.

Thanks i will definitly try that out tonite... i would love to see a tutoriol on the straightening of a chassis... maybe next time if you dont already have done so we can see some pics...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.13, 01:55 PM
how do you guys feel about the atomic rear pod with the top dampner disc's and top shock? right now im running the pn rear pod with f1 aluminium kyosho top shock...

EMU
2009.01.13, 06:09 PM
I have been using the ATM pod/DDS for most of the points series. I had made a custom DDS for the PN pod, but it needs a few adjustments... and I havent had time to do them.

I prefer the ATM pod with DDS to the PN pod without DDS. I think that with a few adjustments, the PN pod with custom DDS will outperform the ATM pod with ATM DDS.

Action RC is a little bumpy, so the extra stability of the DDS helps. I think I was the only one using a DDS in F1 there.

JuniorWKR
2009.01.14, 01:56 PM
ok, so i took the entire car apart last night and put it back together using the shims as suggested and also now using the atm rear pod with dds and kyosho top shock... i used the kyosho top shock because it is much small and didnt require dremeling out the body... just a little shaving on the inside and tha was it... so im happy about that, dont like destroying the body... so tonite will be the test run and i will let you guys know how it goes... thanks again for all the info...

EMU
2009.01.14, 08:22 PM
Let us know how it feels...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 08:42 AM
Let us know how it feels...

Well the outcome of last night is i now have a broken remote and car from when i slammed the car with my remote.... i cant beleive i cant get this car to work... there arent enough shims in the world to help this car out... the thing that pisses me off the most is outside of turning left the car tracks and handles amazing.... i would feel much better if the car spun out both ways cause then i would know it was just tuning not tweaking.... spent hours on it last night and am not impressed with outcome so far... hopefully i can get this figured out before it goes out the window...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 08:44 AM
Do you guys all run stock front springs?...

briankstan
2009.01.15, 08:48 AM
Well the outcome of last night is i now have a broken remote and car from when i slammed the car with my remote.... i cant beleive i cant get this car to work... there arent enough shims in the world to help this car out... the thing that pisses me off the most is outside of turning left the car tracks and handles amazing.... i would feel much better if the car spun out both ways cause then i would know it was just tuning not tweaking.... spent hours on it last night and am not impressed with outcome so far... hopefully i can get this figured out before it goes out the window...

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but check the steering and make sure that the front wheels don't contact the front wing when turning full lock, this will cause the front wheel to lock up and can be the cause of the spins, also check your motor wire routing an make sure the they aren't causing binding in your rear suspension. this can also cause the spinning in on direction.

Do you guys all run stock front springs?...

I use stock front springs.

One more thing, slamming the car and the controller won't solve the issue, but it sure can make it worse. it can be frustrating http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/Smileys/ellow_red/frusty.gif chasing some of these issues, but try and use some patience. it'll be worth it in the end.

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 09:05 AM
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but check the steering and make sure that the front wheels don't contact the front wing when turning full lock, this will cause the front wheel to lock up and can be the cause of the spins, also check your motor wire routing an make sure the they aren't causing binding in your rear suspension. this can also cause the spinning in on direction.



I use stock front springs.

One more thing, slamming the car and the controller won't solve the issue, but it sure can make it worse. it can be frustrating http://www.saltlakemini-z.com/forum/Smileys/ellow_red/frusty.gif chasing some of these issues, but try and use some patience. it'll be worth it in the end.

yeah i know :rolleyes:... but it does help you feel better for the moment... as far as everything goes i shaved front wing did everything to make sure it doesnt bottom out or make contact anywhere... i just cant get this friggin thing to stop spinning out... i used the shims like mentioned but all it did was make the car spin out both ways... which at first i thought was a good thing cause at that point i thought it would just be tuning but that wasnt the case...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 09:58 AM
yeah i know :rolleyes:... but it does help you feel better for the moment... as far as everything goes i shaved front wing did everything to make sure it doesnt bottom out or make contact anywhere... i just cant get this friggin thing to stop spinning out... i used the shims like mentioned but all it did was make the car spin out both ways... which at first i thought was a good thing cause at that point i thought it would just be tuning but that wasnt the case...

The other thing i had to do which helped a little is we run on a track that has loads of traction so i had to run kyosho 40"s up front which helped a little..

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 11:59 AM
Has anyone tried experimenting with harder front springs?...

EMU
2009.01.15, 12:28 PM
I basically only use the yellow front springs (hard). I am pretty sure that Sai uses the same. I am also using some prototype FRP side plates, which give me a little more front bite.

You may also want to try the PN 15d or 20d tires in the front if you have too much steering that your car is spinning out on each corner. Having your car spin both ways, means that you are making an improvement, but the car has too much steering. What knuckles/tie rod do you have?

If you have the ATM mount with adjustable diff height, make sure that you keep the differential as close to the track. Otherwise the motor will drag on the track...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.15, 01:18 PM
I basically only use the yellow front springs (hard). I am pretty sure that Sai uses the same. I am also using some prototype FRP side plates, which give me a little more front bite.

You may also want to try the PN 15d or 20d tires in the front if you have too much steering that your car is spinning out on each corner. Having your car spin both ways, means that you are making an improvement, but the car has too much steering. What knuckles/tie rod do you have?

If you have the ATM mount with adjustable diff height, make sure that you keep the differential as close to the track. Otherwise the motor will drag on the track...

i have 1 degree knuckle, and the tie rod is the red platsic kyosho #2... the first one inthe series of 3 the kit comes with... and yes the axle is on the lower setting creating the most clearance availble.. im gonna have to try and find those front springs to see if that helps...

JuniorWKR
2009.01.22, 08:27 AM
well i finally got to putting in the yellow front springs and ran it last night... the f1 is on rails... i had to redo the shimming as the harder front springs changed the set up... but at the end of the night i was keeping pace with modified mr02's and i was only running a atomic stock... thanks for the all the help guys and i only have one more question... what are you guys running as far as toe in/out...

Slipstream
2009.01.24, 04:11 AM
1 degree toe-in.

Jace1283
2009.01.25, 02:37 PM
i feel the same way about my F1! maybe ill try this shimming and get it going
what controller do you have?
1.0 seems to be what most people go with, i was looking around cause i need to get a set
another thing about my F1 is it seems because of the diff gear being off center one side breaks traction easier than the other

I get frustrated too, i've had these things for idk maybe a year and race every week usually for the past several months. My Mr-02 it always tweaked and i just cant find the prob but having a helios EX-10 can make the car driveable, just from being able to adjust steering max side to side independently. I also have a zmod that beats many Zs and its consistent because there is no adjustability in it so all the little tweaks that Zs get just doesnt exist. There's just so many factory like T plates being straight and level to the damper being equal side to side and then making sure your Diff is centered(make sure you measure with micrometer) and making sure your rear axle is level with the front wheels...makes me anxious just thinking about it.

JuniorWKR
2009.01.26, 09:44 AM
i feel the same way about my F1! maybe ill try this shimming and get it going
what controller do you have?
1.0 seems to be what most people go with, i was looking around cause i need to get a set
another thing about my F1 is it seems because of the diff gear being off center one side breaks traction easier than the other

I get frustrated too, i've had these things for idk maybe a year and race every week usually for the past several months. My Mr-02 it always tweaked and i just cant find the prob but having a helios EX-10 can make the car driveable, just from being able to adjust steering max side to side independently. I also have a zmod that beats many Zs and its consistent because there is no adjustability in it so all the little tweaks that Zs get just doesnt exist. There's just so many factory like T plates being straight and level to the damper being equal side to side and then making sure your Diff is centered(make sure you measure with micrometer) and making sure your rear axle is level with the front wheels...makes me anxious just thinking about it.

LOL... i did some more tuning this weekend and found that 2 degrees of camber with no toe in was much better than anything else... i use a 3pk which i feel is the best remote for 2.4. Maybe not the best remote on the market but i feel it works best with 2.4... as far as your car kicking out it should spin out when making a left turn... the reason for this is that the chassis are known to be twisted... try putting 3 washers (about 1.5mm of spacers) on the right side of the car inbetween the rear pod and the spacer for the side rail... this should solve ur spinning out problem

Jace1283
2009.01.26, 06:56 PM
... as far as your car kicking out it should spin out when making a left turn... the reason for this is that the chassis are known to be twisted... try putting 3 washers (about 1.5mm of spacers) on the right side of the car inbetween the rear pod and the spacer for the side rail... this should solve ur spinning out problem

yes, exactly what it does, kicks out easy turning to the left but turns ok/understeers to the right and ive checked the diff.
sound like you may have the answer but i dont get what youre talking about when you say spacer for side rail...t/h plate? i assume rear pod is the motor pod

EMU
2009.01.26, 07:25 PM
He means the side plate. There are two plates on the side of the chassis that connect the chassis to the motormount. between the right plate and motormount you need to shim...

Jace1283
2009.01.26, 07:34 PM
He means the side plate. There are two plates on the side of the chassis that connect the chassis to the motormount. between the right plate and motormount you need to shim...

ohh, i know what going on, sorry i though he was talking about my mr-02, duh. i do have my F1 though and will try the shims, ty

ShortBus
2011.04.26, 11:05 AM
this is an old thread but I have been having some issues on "right" turns while getting on throttle. when you guys play with these shims are you shimming the entire carbon side plate (3 screws) or just at the motor pod?

EMU
2011.04.26, 11:09 AM
Normally we just shim the mount...

MantisMMA
2011.04.26, 01:03 PM
im starting to think that it is more the fact that the dif is offset. i race 10th scale F1 just about every week and they do the exact same thing!! i just made a car that has the motor mid mounted and a centered gearbox and guess what, the tweak is gone!
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/452827-mantisworx-f1-chassis-sneek-peek-9.html

i think that it may just be the drag from two bearings on the left side and absolutely zero friction on the right side. i wonder if it would make a difference if you used some super high end dry ceramic bearings with no shields???

EMU
2011.04.26, 01:56 PM
The diff offset for me makes the car spin more on left turns... not right.

Jeff, what direction are you running the car? Clockwise or counter clockwise?

MantisMMA
2011.04.26, 02:24 PM
on this video the car is spinning badly on a left turn but it is due to a collapsed spring that i didnt notice til i got home. kinda off subject but cool vid regardless!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mantisworx?feature=mhum#p/u/1/RK1ZFwrOCU8

outlaw-star
2011.08.31, 09:43 AM
I am having similar issues, when you say shim on the right side, which right? looking from the front of the car or the back? :)