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Sandberger
2009.01.15, 10:26 PM
Is there a specific reason for this motor?

I just don't understand why someone would wind a motor that much.

yasuji
2009.01.15, 11:34 PM
Is there a specific reason for this motor?

I just don't understand why someone would wind a motor that much.

i believe that is the same winds as what come in a bone stk car from kyosho
the pnwc 70 t motor is the hand out motor for the pn world cup allowing infinite mods restrictin it with this motor to create the stock class
it is a really good motor and delivers very close racing @ all levels;)

Sandberger
2009.01.16, 11:39 AM
Oh so basically its meant to make more competitive racing.

yasuji
2009.01.16, 12:01 PM
yes....it is faster then a box stk motor smooth and fast for a stk class racer:D

boroEF
2009.01.16, 03:03 PM
This motor can also be geared much higher without issues.
It has much mroe torque (but looks like less RPM) than the stock kyosho motor.

I'm currently running 10t pinion on the stock 44spur, and it can still accel really well. Despite the increased load, the motor does not get warm.

acerpower
2009.01.17, 11:42 AM
they just released an updated version of the 70t. i just picked one up and it has new endbell,new can,and replaceable brushes. also new finish on the can with etching, looks better now as well.i imagine the performance is the same(i haven't tried it yet)

EMU
2009.01.18, 04:20 AM
Performance feels about the same. Possibly higher top end, but doesnt feel like it has more torque. I had a change to try it in my Pan MR02. Pan 70t is one fun class :D

ruf
2009.01.18, 05:27 AM
Oh so basically its meant to make more competitive racing.Yup. Back in the early days of Mini-Z, "stock motor" class was defined by any motor that wouldn't blow up the relatively low power stock FETs in the speed control. After a few years of motor development, this led to some ballistic motors. The cars were just getting too fast, especially with the latest generation of batteries and improved stock FETs from Kyosho. Luckily, we were able to convince PN to restructure the "stock motor" class more like 1/10 scale where they use 27 turn brushed motors. After some experimentation, the 70 turn motor seemed to give the best results: controllable for beginners, but still fun for old pros.

The racing is so close and so much fun, it seems most of the clubs are addicted to 70 turn stock class. Now we need to figure out a way to get the fast guys to bump up and get the mod class going! :p

Felix2010
2009.01.18, 06:28 AM
I haven't tried PN's newest 70t Stock motor, but it looks really excellent. As good as the PN silver-carbon brushes are (10CR45) that PN came out with for the original PN motors, I have always liked the simplicity & performance of the Atomic/EGR-style cans. I am an even bigger fan of the Atomic M1 motor can.:)
One thing I LOVE about the PN 70t (At least the 1st-gen ones) is the huge comm. Very nice quality for a very inexpensive motor.:cool:

ruf - What do you mean when you say, "Now we need to figure out a way to get the fast guys to bump up and get the mod class going"? Is it that many ex-mod-class racers are liking the 70t so much that they now prefer Stock-class over mod? Just curious - What are your thoughts on a "No motor restriction" mod-class, so us motor techies can race our custom motors(Kind of like the rules Cristian posted for a ROAR mod-class)??

dvsstrike
2009.01.18, 11:53 AM
i used this motor last night. the only thing i noticed is that the motor slows down easier(more drag) i liked it i can take corners better with no brakes. speed is the same.

Red Team
2009.01.19, 07:29 AM
This 2nd gen of PNWC motor will be the hand out motor for our club first endurance race, on the 31 of Jan.
For those interested, more info will be found HERE (http://www.redteamracing.info/2008/12/cursa-de-anduranta-mini-z.html)

ruf
2009.01.20, 08:14 PM
ruf - What do you mean when you say, "Now we need to figure out a way to get the fast guys to bump up and get the mod class going"? Is it that many ex-mod-class racers are liking the 70t so much that they now prefer Stock-class over mod? Just curious - What are your thoughts on a "No motor restriction" mod-class, so us motor techies can race our custom motors(Kind of like the rules Cristian posted for a ROAR mod-class)??That's exactly what's happening. And I have nothing against having some good close racing, but the whole racing environment starts to suffer when you have the stock class stacked too deep. Look at 1/10 scale in the days of the "factory stock drivers". What beginner wants to race against a full grid of semi-pro drivers? It's just too intimidating. At least now 1/10 has the superstock class to alleviate some of the sandbagging.

As for the motor rules in the ROAR proposal, I wrote the initial draft, so I don't have any problems with them. ;) Keep in mind that a motor limit is an UPPER limit until you start doing handouts, which should ONLY happen in stock, IMO. Handout mod makes no sense at all to me. If it's a manufactured sponsored race, then open the mod class to motors from that manufacturer. There should be nothing stopping you from running a 70T in full mod, and I suspect that a lot of people would be faster that way. Again, just my 2 cents.

Skv012a
2009.01.21, 03:09 AM
Currently my drifter motor and I like its heat management. Decent speed and power. Despite the fact that I'd like to try this guy in my MR, I'm too addicted to tuning it to Speedy 07 and the top speed that thing pours out. Maybe upcoming Hfay will turn me around to getting used to these improved stock motors.

hpgod
2009.01.21, 06:53 AM
Now I wish there was a tamer motor out there for the true stock/beginners racers. New fets and batteries have speed up the cars beyond a novices controlabilty. 19years of rc racing tells me it will only continue.
I tried an eco but its too slow. I wish there was something in between 70t and eco. 75/80t in a good can so cleaning in a open endbell can.
When i started 1200s were the best C battery in 1/10 scale. A new better battery has come along every 6-12 months.

Tjay
2009.01.21, 02:10 PM
Now I wish there was a tamer motor out there for the true stock/beginners racers. New fets and batteries have speed up the cars beyond a novices controlabilty. 19years of rc racing tells me it will only continue.
I tried an eco but its too slow. I wish there was something in between 70t and eco. 75/80t in a good can so cleaning in a open endbell can.
When i started 1200s were the best C battery in 1/10 scale. A new better battery has come along every 6-12 months.

I hear you. I tried the eco motor and it is way too slow. It would be cool to find a real stock motor/class. With the new PN and ATM it almost feels like Atomic Stock R with stock 3010 fets on an AM board. It doesn't feel like stock at all. I kind of miss the old/original PNWC stock 70 turn motor.

yasuji
2009.01.21, 02:23 PM
I hear you. I tried the eco motor and it is way too slow. It would be cool to find a real stock motor/class. With the new PN and ATM it almost feels like Atomic Stock R with stock 3010 fets on an AM board. It doesn't feel like stock at all. I kind of miss the old/original PNWC stock 70 turn motor.

lol.....i think that this motor is much too slow;):rolleyes:...but if you think it is too fast just run with less powerful batteries.....like energizers or any of the bulk batteries you can buy on ebay for less than a dollar a cell:p

yasuji
2009.01.21, 02:24 PM
better yet run alkaline's.......lol:rolleyes:

yasuji
2009.01.21, 02:29 PM
ll......or run the pnwc mod motor all the time then put the pnwc st motor in.....you might think that something is wrong with your car.....lol:D

ruf
2009.01.21, 04:32 PM
We gotta keep the new blood coming in, or we'll just be racing with ourselves... :( Stock is supposed to be slow. :D

Tjay
2009.01.21, 05:23 PM
lol.....i think that this motor is much too slow;):rolleyes:...but if you think it is too fast just run with less powerful batteries.....like energizers or any of the bulk batteries you can buy on ebay for less than a dollar a cell:p

Not too fast but rather faster than how a stock motor should be. Also it is more consistent and cleaner driving lines with the slower motor.

yasuji
2009.01.21, 06:18 PM
We gotta keep the new blood coming in, or we'll just be racing with ourselves... :( Stock is supposed to be slow. :D

i didnt say stock was fast.......lol:rolleyes:
isnt that why some clubs have a "box stock" class?????
i think ilr did it best with the gearing restriction....
we make our cars fast....if u put a pn 70 turn motor in a box stock 2.4 chassis with a 7 pinion and 44 spur....will it be fast?

ruf
2009.01.21, 07:37 PM
Box stock has two purposes: entry point and cost control.
Stock should be a development class. I wasn't aware that you were a fan of the DMG 600cc "superbikes"... :p

Big boys like you should be in mod. Hell, I should be in mod if I ever practiced... I will say that I've heard of new racers being frustrated by the skill level of the local competition.

You do have a great point, that gearing may be another way to skin the cat.

lfisminiz
2009.01.21, 09:33 PM
The motor is perfect to me for stock with all the different boards/gearing/batts etc.....HOW about a class for novice stock and pro stock?? ;)

MantisMMA
2009.01.21, 11:06 PM
ok i have had two of these new motors and both of them seem to drag badly! they both feel like the bushings are too tight, they dyno the same but on the track they dont accelerate very well coming out of the turns and the have a drastic amount of drag brake and are noticeably harder to spin. also run time is almost cut in half and they get hot!!i typically have bad luck with picking bad ones but 2 back to back has got to be rare! anybody else have this problem?

MantisMMA
2009.01.21, 11:09 PM
at our tracks here in houston we make all newcomers race a box stock car with only bearings,h plate and tires allowed, in order to advance to super stock( PN70 motor with any chassis upgrades) you have to win box stock 3 times!

dvsstrike
2009.01.22, 07:16 AM
i too also have this issue with the motor i posted in the first page of this thread

hpgod
2009.01.22, 08:41 AM
Tjay. you exactly right on the speed increase. The handling on the cars has improved and the batteries are way better. I am now running the same pace in stock we ran 2 years ago with the atomic stock r/pn speedy 07 on 3010 fets in mod.

A new racer will have a non perfect handling car. An ew racer will usually ask what batteries to get and will have good batteries usually before the get a good handling car.

x_zminiracer
2009.01.22, 11:55 AM
chucked mine in the dremel and ran it it a couple of minutes followed by a single cell break in of 10 minutes.

Put it in my 8 t pinion 44 t spur short course MR02 w/ new lightened steel diff shaft.

noticed a good deal more drag compared to the old 70 (like the 'new' drag brake i do).

also seemed to me it did not spin up as quick as the old one, but as it does get up it has more power. May just be me but on my short practice course it seems better, faster.

although i feel it may be slower for taller gearing and longer courses.

I didn't notice any significant decrease in run time though the motor and batteries were a bit warmer than with the old 70.

MantisMMA
2009.01.22, 04:01 PM
after a bit more R+D i have discovered that i have to use a thicker lube than i normally do and i have to lube one side and then let it sit with the lubed bearing side up for about 5 min and repeat on the other side. this loosened it up quite a bit. i even did 10 minutes with 2cells under water and that also loosened it up quite a bit. i will try it out again tonight and chime in tomorrow with the results. i know for sure that using motor spray at the track will not work.

x_zminiracer
2009.01.22, 10:34 PM
i put glidex for bronze bushings in before and after break in. mines still noticeably tighter to spin than the older version.
oh and picked up 6 laps in practice w the MR02 but that just may be me getting better lol, tied for laps with my MA10 running the older version. they were pretty even before and still now, just both have better better condition motors in them since last i put them on the computer.

Felix2010
2009.01.24, 04:51 PM
The 2009 PN 70t motor will have more drag from the brushes than the previous PN 70t motor that used the "standard" PN motor can. A benefit of the "Tamiya-4wd/Atomic/EGR" & now, the "new" PN) motor can is the brushes have firmer tension against the comm compared to the standard motor cans' brushes. This can result in drag, but also means superior current transfer to the comm.
As with any bushing motor, armature seating is crucial, as is bushing condition. The armature should have a small amount of play on both the comm-end and the pinion-end inside the can to keep binding from arising. If there is no play, it might be a good idea to open the motor and check the spacers on the armature. Sometimes removing a spacer can relieve binding.
Bushings also need lube. The Glidex II lube is a good choice. Clean & lube the bushings often.
The comm on the 1st version PN 70t was huge for a stock motor (Awesome!), even larger than many modified-class motors. A large comm + higher-tension brushes = more punch; It also usually means more "drag".

edhchoe
2009.03.29, 03:10 PM
How does this motor compare with Kyosho V speed motor in terms of power and efficiency?

ocean rodeo
2009.03.31, 08:02 PM
When breaking in brushes how long should you run the slave for? I read that proper breakin takes 1.5 hours? Do you take breaks or do you let it run constantly for that time?