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View Full Version : Reflex Racing Special Project: the little mini that could...


ruf
2009.03.10, 01:33 AM
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0774.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0775.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0776.jpg

EMU
2009.03.10, 02:34 AM
Its so cute :p

That mini really put on a show...

Tjay
2009.03.10, 04:19 AM
that thing didn't even traction roll! Awesome driving Joe! It seems that you have been driving mini-z a lot lately! Very consistent and safe driving. I loved the mini-class racing. Where you running proto mount by PN? ;)

ruf
2009.03.10, 08:29 PM
EMU - thanks for the assist! Your F40 was the only thing that could give Philip a run for his money!

Tjay - the thing was traction rolling PLENTY in qualifying. Just a few little tweaks to get it in the sweet spot for the main! Philip was nice enough to provide me with a prototype SWB motor mount. I'll remove the spy shot mosiac when Philip has the parts ready in a couple weeks. It took me a while to get it dialed in, but once it was - LOOK OUT! COMING THROUGH! :D

I'll soon be posting the story of this little guy's race weekend which details the build-up, the frustration, and ultimately the best race I've ever had! In the meantime, I've made some modifications... enjoy!

http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0777.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0780.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0781.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0782.jpg

EMU
2009.03.10, 09:30 PM
Joe... that assist was the funniest thing all weekend. I know it saved you almost a lap ;)

My F40 was fast, and could have given Philip a good run, if the damper screws didnt come out :eek: After they came out completely, and I started to flip every time I hit the sweeper... I had to take it off. Im pretty sure that the damper screws backed out when I swapped the t-plate, the two posts that hold the RM adapter must has rotated, and let the screws back out.

Im glad that you got the car working well, it shows that you dont need the best body to run at the front. I think that was the point, use the car that is the most fun. I know I enjoyed running the cooper when I had it setup well. It was one of the most fun cars that I have driven... comes pretty close to driving an Odyssey Mini-van and finishing 2nd in one of our club races...

herman
2009.03.11, 12:00 AM
thanks for sharing the pics... for a moment i didn't see them (dunno if it's just me or the site)... i think the problem's fixed now... and now i can edit as well.... :D looking forward to this swb motor mount... but wait isn't the mini a M setting (90mm)?

EMU
2009.03.11, 12:10 AM
Herman, that is why the pictures do not show the mount... it is a prototype ;) I wish that I had it. My RM F40 put up the second fastest lap in the class in qualifying. I think even in the main without having a damper screwed to the motormount :eek: Joe drove the wheels off of his cooper, to a well deserved 2nd place finish. I pulled off to watch the show after I started to traction roll every lap without a damper...

bermbuster
2009.03.11, 12:55 AM
in the purest form of racing a mini cooper shouldnt you be using the MR-015 chassis???

EMU
2009.03.11, 01:02 AM
in the purest form of racing a mini cooper shouldnt you be using the MR-015 chassis???
I would have :p He used the PN MR02 -> MR015 track width conversion...

herman
2009.03.11, 01:57 AM
Herman, that is why the pictures do not show the mount... it is a prototype ;)

totally understand the pixilated pics at the motor mount area...
problem for me was the pics totally didn't show up... zip... nada... and for some odd reason... tada got to see all of them all of a sudden...

kinda happened to some other threads that i was checking out... no pics when there should be pics... i should know, i posted pics in that thread... one day it was there... the next day the pic was gone...

weird... sorry to be off topic

tudor_47
2009.03.11, 03:08 AM
Herman ,
the mini looks like one of the Iwaver minis and that is at 102mm wheelbase
The body is lots of fun to drive.

http://www.toyeast.com/v3/catproductlist.asp?cat_id=1426&clvl=4

ruf
2009.03.11, 04:24 AM
bermbuster - yup, I guess you're right. Everything is relative. One man's purity is another man's sellout. I know I was scratching my head at everyone showing up to a "Mini" race with Ferraris and Lamborghinis. That was one of the things that really motivated me to get the thing to work. Putting it in your context, I was kinda selling out by not running an MR-015 setup. But we could take that argument all the way down to box stock. ;)

Anyways, I'll be posting the "story" up in pieces, and part of it will about the reasons I made the choices I did in the building and tuning. Unlike other classes, the motivations behind the decisions aren't exactly straightforward. At Reflex, we have the luxury of running whatever makes us the fastest, regardless of brand/appearance/etc. Some of that methodology shows through (MR-02 chassis, etc). But since the Mini class is supposed to be about having fun, I had a more whimsical approach to some decisions. I hope it showed! :D

herman - EMU's got it right. It's a prototype 90mm mid-motor mount from PN Racing. As for the pics, I've been putting them up a few at a time. Sorry about that.

tudor_47 - nope, not an Iwaver and not 102mm. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of either. I think that's a double negative? :p

herman
2009.03.11, 05:27 AM
dang... all the pics 'disappeared' again... it must be me...

90mm mid motor??? hmmm you be able to use it for the s 86mm setting?

EMU
2009.03.11, 05:46 AM
90mm is the shortest wheelbase I believe...

herman
2009.03.11, 06:24 AM
Wheelbase: 86(S), 90(M), 94(L),
from...
http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=100406

i also believe that there's a 98(LL)mm 102(3L) & 106(4L)mm :D

bermbuster
2009.03.11, 06:39 AM
Wheelbase: 86(S), 90(M), 94(L),
from...
http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=100406

i also believe that there's a 98(LL)mm 102(3L) & 106(4L)mm :D

the 86mm wb is achieved w a rm pod.
the new pod from PN is a mm pod. with a mm pod you probably will not have
enough clearance from the motor can to the chassis for 86mm.

bermbuster
2009.03.11, 06:44 AM
bermbuster - yup, I guess you're right. Everything is relative. One man's purity is another man's sellout. I know I was scratching my head at everyone showing up to a "Mini" race with Ferraris and Lamborghinis. That was one of the things that really motivated me to get the thing to work. Putting it in your context, I was kinda selling out by not running an MR-015 setup. But we could take that argument all the way down to box stock..

I hear you and Im just glad to see the mini back racing. It is one of my favorite cars in my collection. In the NYC area we have thriving 015 classes
so my mindset is 015...This car has me intriqued and my mind is changing....
Im looking forward tothe write-up...

Pierro
2009.03.11, 07:40 AM
Hello!

I'm curious to see the new PN mount.

I've seen some similar set-up in France but with an atomic HM pod. These cars are supposed to be very agile. They use narrow 90mm bodies such as mini, toyota yaris vitz, lancia delta, focus...

http://lh4.google.fr/olivier30900/R-RbVc6e6kI/AAAAAAAAD3E/Xi194ytkpSI/s800/P3220012.jpg

http://lh4.google.fr/olivier30900/R-fHos6e7YI/AAAAAAAAECI/o97NgNTtHvk/s800/P3240036.JPG.jpg

arch2b
2009.03.11, 08:12 AM
you would have loved our short wheelbase race we do on occasion in dc. it's always a lot of fun.

Cherub1m
2009.03.11, 10:44 AM
Wheelbase: 86(S), 90(M), 94(L),
from...
http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=100406

i also believe that there's a 98(LL)mm 102(3L) & 106(4L)mm :D

Yep the 934 and 935 porshes are all 86mm. Great acceleration sometime they want to pull wheelies (especialy the 935):D. unfortunately the rear bounce alot, a problem inherant to the rear mount.

Cherub1m
2009.03.11, 11:06 AM
the 86mm wb is achieved w a rm pod.
the new pod from PN is a mm pod. with a mm pod you probably will not have
enough clearance from the motor can to the chassis for 86mm.

PN is coming out with a 90mm MM motor mount? WOW!!! I cant wait, I hope it fits the 90mm Ferrari dino. I waitting patiently to see this thing, because the 94 mm MM motor mounts bearly has room for the motor has an MM.

ruf
2009.03.11, 01:13 PM
90mm is the shortest this motor mount can go. But you are correct on the other Kyosho wheelbase options.

EMU
2009.03.11, 01:34 PM
Hmm, I suppose you should be able to run 92mm, with the Reflex t-plates on this mount... should be good for bodies like the Mini, that dont have enough room ro run 94mm...

okoye
2009.03.11, 01:43 PM
anyone know when this motor mount is coming out? it would help me alot as i feel its the best motor mount. it would allow me to push the car harder and not have to worry about spinning.

this is the best motor mount because i can let the steering go and let the car steer by acceleration :D

EMU
2009.03.11, 02:01 PM
I believe it is going to be released some time in May...

okoye
2009.03.11, 02:06 PM
thats way too long :/ i thought it was gonna be before the end of the month

GoFaster
2009.03.11, 02:28 PM
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0781.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/images/Mini/HPIM0782.jpg

This is what someone from Texas does when they live in California. Try to make a truck out of a mini.

Joe, you figured out the secret to hair growth yet? If so, then let me know. :D

ruf
2009.03.11, 08:03 PM
gofatter - Hahaha! After I finished, it made me want to make one in 1:1! As for hair growth...

okoye - not sure what you mean. You're describing 2 different handling characteristics...

Pierro - I've run the Atomic HM setup, and while it's good, PN really set a new standard with this motor mount. This thing rocks!

Cherub1m
2009.03.11, 08:21 PM
Ok we all know its a 90mm mid mount motor mount...SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!....Oh...I mean 90mm MM motor mount:D

P.S. I want one :D

lfisminiz
2009.03.11, 09:26 PM
Joe, thanks for this....i really need to add yet another chassis to the pile.:eek::D

pfcparts
2009.03.11, 10:58 PM
This is what someone from Texas does when they live in California. :D :D Funny on multiple levels... I suppose CA is a hub for "classics". :p

the 86mm wb is achieved w a rm pod.
the new pod from PN is a mm pod. with a mm pod you probably will not have
enough clearance from the motor can to the chassis for 86mm.

Piggying off that:

Any restrictions on pinions? Seems
like a really tight fit even with the can
mounted vertically (curved sides up).

Will probably pick up one to try out on the fc,
but that is one heck of a long wait.:eek:


parts

herman
2009.03.12, 02:24 AM
EMU's got it right. It's a prototype 90mm mid-motor mount from PN Racing. As for the pics, I've been putting them up a few at a time. Sorry about that.

...no worries... 90mm mid motor mount sounds cool...

90mm is the shortest this motor mount can go. But you are correct on the other Kyosho wheelbase options.
:D... i guess having a 86mm mid mount will indeed be a technological challenge, haven't seen my cars in a while... but i'm not even sure that it is physically possible having a 86mm mid mount... (but then again i could be wrong)...

pretty interested in seing that 90mm mid mount... the suspense is pretty dense... so let the cat out of the bag already... spill the beans... show us the pics... :D

the only short 86mm bodies i know of are the lancia stratos, and the porsche 934 / 935

you would have loved our short wheelbase race we do on occasion in dc. it's always a lot of fun.
what type of bodies would you consider short wheelbase?

Cherub1m
2009.03.12, 09:07 AM
Joe, on your previous post you said "SWB motor mount"

1) what does SWB stand for?
2) like pfcparts, I am wondering what range of pinion is the motor mount able to fit?
3) can you use a regular 44 tooth spur(48 pitch) or do you have to use a smaller spur gear?
4) how much does it weigh? (weight patrol:D)
5) everyone is saying its mid mount, can you confirm that it is a mid mount?

Thanks,

herman
2009.03.12, 09:12 AM
"SWB motor mount"
short wheel base motor mount... just guessing...

Skv012a
2009.03.12, 09:37 AM
90mm MM sounds insane! It will kill the difficulty of using a short RM car, but if it will allow me to compete with 02 thats all I'll need. Also, if it'll support 94 as well, it will be perfect.

GoFaster
2009.03.12, 03:17 PM
gofatter. hahahhaha .........not any more. :D Remember? I did the crack cocaine diet.

okoye
2009.03.12, 05:57 PM
gofatter - Hahaha! After I finished, it made me want to make one in 1:1! As for hair growth...

okoye - not sure what you mean. You're describing 2 different handling characteristics...

Pierro - I've run the Atomic HM setup, and while it's good, PN really set a new standard with this motor mount. This thing rocks!

i have been babbling. what i meant to say is that i can get more control with an mm motor mount, allowing me to push the car really hard

G0DZ1LL4
2009.03.15, 07:11 PM
Hi all,

90mm is short, very short for MM motor position ...

But it fit ... and when you run with it your "mini" is very low CG contrary to high CG Atomic HM motor pod :mad:

I've made one very homemade, very simple but it rocks !!!

Please note dual foam tires (homemade too !)

Here is my own mosaik :)

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/mini%20MM.JPG

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/pod%20ar.JPG

z3zinho
2009.03.15, 08:25 PM
Hummm... two-chocolate foam tyres? Yumii :D

G0DZ1LL4
2009.03.17, 09:23 AM
any news ? new photos ? Got an ultimatum date for non mosaic photos ? :D

Hummm... two-chocolate foam tyres? Yumii :D

Yup "kinder" secret treatment for tyres :)

Cherub1m
2009.03.17, 09:39 AM
Hi all,

90mm is short, very short for MM motor position ...

But it fit ... and when you run with it your "mini" is very low CG contrary to high CG Atomic HM motor pod :mad:

I've made one very homemade, very simple but it rocks !!!

Please note dual foam tires (homemade too !)

Here is my own mosaik :)

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/mini%20MM.JPG

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/pod%20ar.JPG

Hi GODZILLA

Nice!!! at least your mosaic allows us to see some of the design. Ok time to move it to the next phase of development and get it out into production. :)

herman
2009.03.19, 04:54 AM
looks pretty aerodynamic too...

Skv012a
2009.03.21, 12:16 AM
I thought that such mount would basicly be a 45 degree HM and looks like I was right. As long as it can do 90-94 I'll be veeeeery happy when PN makes one of these.

Biff
2009.03.25, 11:52 AM
Same ole Joe. :p I remember that Tamiya Hybrid thing you built about ten years ago. Thing werked! :D

PNracing
2009.03.25, 12:06 PM
Joe, on your previous post you said "SWB motor mount"

1) what does SWB stand for?
2) like pfcparts, I am wondering what range of pinion is the motor mount able to fit?
3) can you use a regular 44 tooth spur(48 pitch) or do you have to use a smaller spur gear?
4) how much does it weigh? (weight patrol:D)
5) everyone is saying its mid mount, can you confirm that it is a mid mount?

Thanks,

After 2 weeks should be release for sell
90MMMMMM (90mm Mid Mount - Motor Mount)
Joe and me is using my prototype at KO race Mini Sport Class

Answer your question
1) 90mm and 94mm
2) & 3) All pinion range can use on this mount including 64P 9-14T
4) I'm not sure, I will weight later, almost same as 94mm motor mount
5) Yes.
6) Also comes with new damper plate system

Philip
PN Racing

Traveler
2009.03.25, 01:07 PM
Philip,

Thanks for the info!

What about the cost for the mount and the damper system?
Do you know if it will fit under the RML bodies like the Lambo Countach?

Some pictures would really be nice.

PNracing
2009.03.25, 03:15 PM
Philip,

Thanks for the info!

What about the cost for the mount and the damper system?
Do you know if it will fit under the RML bodies like the Lambo Countach?

Some pictures would really be nice.

The price not yet confirm, should be under 40.00

Should be fit in RML base on the damper design, may be need cut little hole for damper top, depends on body, my F40 I need cut little.

Cherub1m
2009.03.25, 03:37 PM
After 2 weeks should be release for sell
90MMMMMM (90mm Mid Mount - Motor Mount)
Joe and me is using my prototype at KO race Mini Sport Class

Answer your question
1) 90mm and 94mm
2) & 3) All pinion rang can use on this mount including 64P 9-14T
4) I'm not sure, I will weight later, almost same as 94mm motor mount
5) Yes.
6) Also comes with new damper plate system

Philip
PN Racing

WOW 2 weeks!!!:D Thanks for the information. I'll be waitting for it.

Also, I like your first name:D.

Traveler
2009.04.01, 10:18 AM
Joe, you received permission from Philip to post pics, so lets see what's behind the spy shots. Thanks!

G0DZ1LL4
2009.04.01, 10:27 AM
Yeah ! Come on ! :rolleyes:

I want to see too ! :D

Cherub1m
2009.04.01, 12:39 PM
Tic, tac, tic, tac, tic, tac, tic, tac...:D

Skv012a
2009.04.01, 02:09 PM
Mm, so it comes w/ new DDS. Man, that means it'll be what, 40-50$?!

ocean rodeo
2009.04.01, 02:28 PM
Mm, so it comes w/ new DDS. Man, that means it'll be what, 40-50$?! PN said under 40.00

G0DZ1LL4
2009.04.02, 09:18 AM
I've found some 3D drawings from PN :D

Hope the mosaics will dispear soon ! ;)

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5808/mr90941.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1714/mr90942.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7755/mr90943.jpg

ruf
2009.04.02, 01:03 PM
Mosaics gone on the original pics. :)

ianc
2009.04.02, 01:22 PM
Joe or Phillip,

Any clue as to whether this would fit (with shock) under a shaved 935 body?

ianc

Cherub1m
2009.04.02, 10:35 PM
Mosaics gone on the original pics. :)

Thanks Joe:D. I will most definitely get this motor mount.

benmlee
2009.04.02, 11:02 PM
I am a little slow. Just saw this thread. Is all making sense now. No wonder Joe's car looked like it handled so good at the KO Propo race. Thought he was running a RM or HM, so I was amazed at how good a HM or RM can handle. The way his car drove was definitely different than other cars on the track. Hard to explain, but it was turning crisp with minimal body roll and none of the swing of a RM.
Is just hard to believe, but whether the motor is in front, on top or behind the axel makes a big difference. You just can't tune out the difference. At least I can't do it.

matxr4ti
2009.04.03, 02:10 AM
nice i want to built one like his

edhchoe
2009.04.03, 02:04 PM
Mosaics gone on the original pics. :)

The mosaic reminded me of frog eggs being fertilized....http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/387767492_87f5558ecf.jpg

Cherub1m
2009.04.03, 02:37 PM
Hi all,

90mm is short, very short for MM motor position ...

But it fit ... and when you run with it your "mini" is very low CG contrary to high CG Atomic HM motor pod :mad:

I've made one very homemade, very simple but it rocks !!!

Please note dual foam tires (homemade too !)

Here is my own mosaik :)

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/mini%20MM.JPG

http://g0dz1ll4.online.fr/miniz/perso/Minimm/pod%20ar.JPG

Ok g0dzill4, PN Racing has disrobed and showed the glory of their 90mm mid motor mount. Now it's your turn to bear it all :D

deloreanaka8
2009.04.03, 10:00 PM
Those 2 foam tires remind me of an old chassis I used to race in the 90's, the Trinity Street Spec.

http://steliosh.net/rc/images/spec102.jpg

G0DZ1LL4
2009.04.07, 02:12 PM
Oh yeah ! White Milk / Black chocolate :rolleyes: !
Viva portugal ! ;)

Did we will got big pictures of real Mount (not drawings) later ?
First one are little and dark :(

ShortBus
2009.04.14, 01:48 PM
just curious on what offset wheels were you using on the mini setup?

ruf
2009.04.14, 06:06 PM
ShortBus - I was running +1 narrow in the front, but they were shaved down to 8mm width since the PN tires are a little narrower than Kyosho. I was running -1 semiwide in the rear. These started as -1 wide, but shaved down from 11mm width to 9.5mm.

ruf
2009.04.14, 06:15 PM
Chapter 1:

1/14/09
PN says: Do you plan to go to KO race in March?
Joe says: Yup
PN says: Maybe I will build a 90mm AWD for the Mini Sport Class
Joe says: AWD 90mm?
PN says: KO race will have a Mini Sport Class for 90mm cars only
Joe says: Ah awesome :) I should do that too
PN says: 2WD or AWD? They are running them together
Joe says: I have a Mini Cooper MR-02 right now :)
Joe says: Turns so quick, but traction rolls
Joe says: I need to try and fit a sway bar on it
PN says: Yes maybe you need a harder front tire
Joe says: I think I’ve got 25’s on it!
PN says: You should try 30. Or stock tire
Joe says: Yah I guess so
blahblahblah...

And that's how it started.
We all knew that Philip would never leave his beloved MR-02 chassis for the AWD... :)
Missing my old 1:1, I had built up a Mini Cooper MR-02 using PN narrow front end just to goof around with.

to be continued...

ocean rodeo
2009.04.14, 08:17 PM
ShortBus - I was running +1 narrow in the front, but they were shaved down to 8mm width since the PN tires are a little narrower than Kyosho. I was running -1 semiwide in the rear. These started as -1 wide, but shaved down from 11mm width to 9.5mm.

May I ask how you shaved your wheels?

ocean rodeo
2009.04.14, 08:19 PM
Chapter 1:

1/14/09
PN says: Do you plan to go to KO race in March?
Joe says: Yup
PN says: Maybe I will build a 90mm AWD for the Mini Sport Class
Joe says: AWD 90mm?
PN says: KO race will have a Mini Sport Class for 90mm cars only
Joe says: Ah awesome :) I should do that too
PN says: 2WD or AWD? They are running them together
Joe says: I have a Mini Cooper MR-02 right now :)
Joe says: Turns so quick, but traction rolls
Joe says: I need to try and fit a sway bar on it
PN says: Yes maybe you need a harder front tire
Joe says: I think Ive got 25s on it!
PN says: You should try 30. Or stock tire
Joe says: Yah I guess so
blahblahblah...

And that's how it started.
We all knew that Philip would never leave his beloved MR-02 chassis for the AWD... :)
Missing my old 1:1, I had built up a Mini Cooper MR-02 using PN narrow front end just to goof around with.

to be continued...

Nice!!! Now i'm building one:eek: but, am going to run the Golf GTI:D

ruf
2009.04.14, 08:31 PM
May I ask how you shaved your wheels?I am pretty picky about this stuff. I use pretty coarse sand paper on a flat surface. I go through 5 back-and-forth passes and rotate 60 degrees. The consistent and constant rotation every few passes keeps you from taking off too much material in one area from uneven pressure and keeps the width consistent. I keep going until I'm all the way around. This ends up being 30 back-and-forth passes which takes off 0.5-0.75mm depending on the wheel, the pressure I'm applying, sandpaper, etc. Clean it up with the back of an xacto knife.

Once around lightly will take a PN front wheel down to 8.0mm.
Twice around lightly will take a PN rear wheel down to 9.5mm.
Once around heavily will take an Atomic front wheel down to 8.0mm.
Twice around heavily will take an Atomic front wheel down to 9.5mm.

PN and Atomic wheels start out at different widths. I can't remember exactly what, but I think the PN's are about 8.7mm with a thin lip. The Atomics were almost 9.0mm with a thick lip.

This is just what works for me. It's not super time consuming, but some might consider it overkill.

ocean rodeo
2009.04.14, 10:07 PM
I am pretty picky about this stuff. I use pretty coarse sand paper on a flat surface. I go through 5 back-and-forth passes and rotate 60 degrees. The consistent and constant rotation every few passes keeps you from taking off too much material in one area from uneven pressure and keeps the width consistent. I keep going until I'm all the way around. This ends up being 30 back-and-forth passes which takes off 0.5-0.75mm depending on the wheel, the pressure I'm applying, sandpaper, etc. Clean it up with the back of an xacto knife.

Once around lightly will take a PN front wheel down to 8.0mm.
Twice around lightly will take a PN rear wheel down to 9.5mm.
Once around heavily will take an Atomic front wheel down to 8.0mm.
Twice around heavily will take an Atomic front wheel down to 9.5mm.

PN and Atomic wheels start out at different widths. I can't remember exactly what, but I think the PN's are about 8.7mm with a thin lip. The Atomics were almost 9.0mm with a thick lip.

This is just what works for me. It's not super time consuming, but some might consider it overkill.

OK but this might sound dumb but are you taking away the inside or outside of the wheel?:o

ShortBus
2009.04.15, 12:03 PM
looking at the pictures on the first page of this post - it looks like he just shaved off the outside lip of the rim

EMU
2009.04.15, 04:46 PM
I have done both the way that Ruf explained, and also used a tire truer, with a file... which I prefer since you can mount a tire, then file away the lip until it is flush with the tire...

ocean rodeo
2009.04.15, 04:57 PM
I have done both the way that Ruf explained, and also used a tire truer, with a file... which I prefer since you can mount a tire, then file away the lip until it is flush with the tire...

Fancy...;)

Traveler
2009.04.29, 04:29 PM
Joe,

Is chapter 2 coming at some point? I have my 90mmmmmm but haven't done anything yet. I have a Lambo Countach which it might go on, or maybe I'll use a AWD Subaru WRX body. Both are 90mm wb.

Traveler
2009.05.04, 03:17 PM
Bump :)

ruf
2009.06.04, 06:56 PM
Chapter 2 on the way. Sorry got bogged down at work, and I haven't found this thread since the reorg... :(

mugler
2009.06.05, 04:18 AM
Chapter 2 on the way.

Bring it :D

minittrackmann
2009.06.14, 10:57 AM
Chapter 2, were is it????

loll

ruf
2009.07.07, 11:03 AM
Chapter 2:

2/25/09
PN says: 90mm motor mount sample is here
PN says: I just assembled it. Sooooooooooo sweet
PN says: I can’t wait to try
Joe says: *&$% it! Send me a pic
Joe says: Maybe I’ll try to sneak out of work to pick it up.

And just like that, the PN 90mm MM MR-02 motor mount was born. I would make it out of the office in time to pick up the test sample, so I had Philip send it to me. I rebuilt my 2WD Stock MR-02 with all the new Mini chassis components just in time to MISS the last day that Kenon would ever be open. For some reason, I didn't understand what Philip meant by "I'm closing the track today." I just thought, "Yeah I know. I'll try to stop back by tomorrow for some testing..."

next chapter: testing and tuning...

ruf
2009.07.07, 11:11 AM
Chapter 3:

3/2/09
PN says: I tested the motor mount today. The setup is GOOD!
PN says: I beat Chad in stock class at last Friday
Joe says: hahahaha
Joe says: awesome
Joe says: what spring
Joe says: are you running wide tires?
PN says: on my track, front yellow
PN says: F40 body
PN says: yes
PN says: 1 front, 0 rear
Joe says: yah i'm going to run mini cooper
PN says: another choice is AE86
PN says: also very good and stable
Joe says: yah
PN says: when i put on the F40, sooooooooooooo good
PN says: huge difference
PN says: wide rear tire
PN says: i also used an F1 shock on top, much better
Joe says: interesting
Joe says: i never liked the f1 shock
Joe says: prefer the oil shock
Joe says: but may be too high for this setup
PN Philip says: oil shock is too big, try the f1
PN Philip says: i can set you up
Joe says: i don't care i'm still running mini cooper :p
Joe says: will be fun

Sure I had committed to running the Mini Cooper body, but I still had a few tricks up my sleeve. I decided to abandon the front swaybar attempt since there was just no room in the chassis for any of the conventional setups. First thing I did was lighten up the body. The "sunroof" mod is popular with racers, and remains legal in most classes. It usually results in a few 0.1g from the top of the car. The funny thing about the mini cooper body is that the roof is only glued to the windows and has no other attachment points to the body. This makes it very easy to remove and thin out with a dremel and wire brush attachment. I would be running an MR-02 chassis with the PN MR-0175 tower bars to reduce the roll with this already tippy setup.

The other big upgrade would be the rear wheels and tires. I've experimented with semi-wide (9.5mm) rear tires in stock class before with some success. I find that in certain traction/temperature situations, they work as well as full wide rear tires. I had some sample semi-wide SSG's laying around, and I knew that these would be just the ticket. The standard 8.5mm narrow wheel/tire setup leaves room in the Mini Cooper wheelwell, so I knew we had some space to play with. Simple math said that 9.5mm semi-wide tires on a -1mm offset semi-wide wheels would give me the same rear track width as the standard 8.5mm narrow setup.

So where do you get -1mm semi-wide wheels? You make them! :D Starting with Atomic -1mm wide wheels, I carefully sanded them down to the correct width and glued up the semi-wide SSGs. Why all this trouble for wider wheels and tires? Well first of all, we would be running PN 70T stock motors which have more than enough grunt with race batteries to overpower narrow rear tires. The smaller contact patch of narrow rear tires not only affects the power application, but the consistency of the handling via squirm. I thought that a narrow aspect ratio (unless trued WAY down) might squirm badly under the combination of acceleration and cornering loads on exit. At this point, I hadn't figured out whether the chatter/traction rolling in my previous setup was generated from the front or the rear of the chassis. I suspected a little bit of both - sometimes the nose would tuck in corner entry, sometimes the rear would hop around on exit. I hoped that the semi-wide rear tires would give me a more consistent and stable rear contact patch to apply power during corner exit and solve 1/2 of the problem.

Just for good measure I also sanded some Atomic +1 narrow wheels down to 8mm width for use in the front. With camber, they had no issues rubbing, and I thought they might help in the front end stability department...

Took the new setup + a few options out to OC/RC to shake her down. Better than before (due to the damper plate system), but I was STILL traction rolling when the tires got up to temperature and if I started pushing it. I tried going stiffer on the suspension, damping, etc. to control the oscillation, but no help. The car did feel very consistent when I backed the pace off to 80%, and the thing could turn on a DIME. It was very interesting being able to run so deep into a corner, stay wide, turn in late and not wash out and blow the apex. On top of that, the car could actually tighten the line on exit under power. This would come in handy a little later... ;)

next chapter: roll the dice! it's race day!

doug01n
2010.03.04, 01:52 PM
Hello Joe!

I'm buying a Cooper and a PN 90MMMMM (lol) to build a racer Cooper on an MR-03 Chassis.

What did you think about racing with the Cooper body against other 90mm chassis? It's a chalenge for me try to make a serious racer car with this body I just looooove.

ruf
2010.05.16, 02:52 AM
Too be honest, I didn't have anything for the guys that had found F40 bodies. They were almost running regular stock laptimes. I didn't have any issues with RX-7's or AE86's or any of the other more vintage style bodies.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Chapter 4 of 5 coming this weekend! Just starting to get back into it!

doug01n
2010.05.16, 11:00 AM
Yesterday had a successfull night at Galpas' track yesterday, runing the following setup:
Front alloy PN arms 0 and 1.9 caster
Front used GPM V-tires (slick almost)
red soft springs
90mm MM pod with soft black springs on the disk
dual spring shock with a little pre load at the small one
rear narrow V-patern Atomic tires 10.

The car was like a sloc car... fast and predictable. I think I'll run all tires the same (V-patern), but I only had one pair available. Will order some more pretty soon!

Another funny thing: If you enter the turn toooo much over powering, the car may flip... but as the roof of the cooper is rounded, 95% of the times the car falls on his wheels again, so you just keep runing. I think this is all about the lower CG possible, with MR-03 battery configuration and the 90mm pod.

Oh.. forgot to say... it's a carpet track... here's a picture of it being finished... but you can see the layout:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4913/galpas.jpg

skyler
2010.05.16, 07:50 PM
Yesterday had a successfull night at Galpas' track yesterday, runing the following setup:
Front alloy PN arms 0 and 1.9 caster
Front used GPM V-tires (slick almost)
red soft springs
90mm MM pod with soft black springs on the disk
dual spring shock with a little pre load at the small one
rear narrow V-patern Atomic tires 10.

The car was like a sloc car... fast and predictable. I think I'll run all tires the same (V-patern), but I only had one pair available. Will order some more pretty soon!

Another funny thing: If you enter the turn toooo much over powering, the car may flip... but as the roof of the cooper is rounded, 95% of the times the car falls on his wheels again, so you just keep runing. I think this is all about the lower CG possible, with MR-03 battery configuration and the 90mm pod.

Oh.. forgot to say... it's a carpet track... here's a picture of it being finished... but you can see the layout:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4913/galpas.jpg

What T-plate did you use?

doug01n
2010.05.16, 10:44 PM
Original Kyosho plastic so far...
Next week will arrive the reflex pivot system and the 4,5mm SSG atomic plate.

skyler
2010.05.17, 03:48 AM
Thanks doug. Tell me about Reflex's pivot system. I haven't heard about it yet.

ruf
2010.06.19, 06:23 PM
Thanks doug. Tell me about Reflex's pivot system. I haven't heard about it yet.I think he's talking about our new MR-03 adjustble t-plate mount. It lets you install a setscrew where you want to adjust the fore/aft stiffness of the t-plate.

http://www.reflexracing.net/proddetail.asp?prod=RX1151

ruf
2010.06.19, 06:24 PM
Chapter 4: Race Day!

After a long drive up to NorCal, we got set up in the mall area. This was my first mall race and Binh and the Inside Line crew really put together an awesome venue! There was an escalator leading to the second floor where spectators could gather for a bird’s eye view of the racing action below. Practice was VERY crowded with a line 20-30 racers long waiting to get their shot on track in timed intervals. I knew my F1 car was fine, and I really wasn’t that concerned about Stock 2WD, so I focused on the Mini. As usual the track started off very green and slippery which brought the push out of most cars.

Some of you may wonder what those stupid pink flowers are all about. I always like to grab a random memento at each big race. In our rush, I hadn’t packed a pit towel or napkins or anything to wipe down the tires after gluing. We happened to be pitted next to this plastic flower bush, and the mall kindly “donated” some flowers so I could wipe the excess CA off the sidewalls (critical on the Mini fronts). I found the flowers in my pitbox a week later and there you have it.

I started out with semi-wide SSG’s on the rear with -1 offset Atomic wheels that I had shaved down. They provided plenty of forward traction, but I was struggling with finding the correct front tire for balance. I tried a variety of different tires from sticky to hard, and fiddled with the dual rate to dial in the steering. As the grip came up, traction rolling started rearing its ugly head. I ended up having to lift before the sweeper and bend it in to prevent the little Mini from flipping off the track. I miscalculated this more than a few times resulting in some pretty spectacular crashes much to the delight of the crowd that had gathered above. Lots of oohs and aahs and groans from the onlookers didn’t do a lot for my confidence. It felt like everyone in the mall was watching my little red cannonball careen off the track…

Come the qualifiers I really focused on blocking out the crowd and getting some solid conservative runs in. I managed to save a few of the traction rolls with some rather entertaining bicycles in the sweeper and the infield. This brought a smile to my face, and I really started having fun. I ended up qualifying at the rear of the grid in 9th, but I was confident that if I could keep it on all 4, I could fight my way into the top 5 for the main. I was the ONLY Mini Cooper in the field surrounded by F40’s, RX-7s, and other low slung coupes. While the top-heavy Mini had its issues, I was able to turn under just about anyone on exit, as long as the car didn’t end up on its lid.

For the main, I rolled the dice and tried a trued PN 20 degree front tire – stickier than I had been running in qualifying. I dropped my dual rate down and tested the front into the sweeper on the warm up laps. My hunch had paid off! Reducing the steering angle had all but eliminated the traction rolling! It wouldn’t hold up to a Scandinavian flick, but I could finally bend the little Mini into the sweeper at speed. I still had plenty of steering in the infield, and the reduced steering scrub had totally freed up the car for some pretty amazing corner speed.

When the horn sounded, I rolled into the throttle anticipating a pile up in the first corner. Looking for a gap, I ended up getting knocked backwards by a more enthusiastic driver, so I had a lot of work to do. In dead last, I settled down and just tried to nail the same line lap after lap while adjusting to the new steering characteristic. A few laps into the race, the tires came up to full temperature, and I finally got a feel for what I could get away in each corner. By that time I had started reeling in the other drivers. This is where it got exciting. I would pressure for a few corners, wait for a little mistake and duck right underneath. It felt like I was passing someone almost every other lap. When I came up on another driver coming onto the straightaway, I took an outside line in the sweeper just to be safe. Imagine my surprise when the little Mini slingshotted the long way around and completed the pass going into turn 1! The car was so on edge, but if I did my part, I could put it anywhere on the track. Given my tendency as a race announcer, I started providing my own color commentary from the drivers stand infused with plenty of laughter and disbelief as the Mini clawed it’s way through the field.

Being lost so deep in the field, the announcer hadn’t noticed my rise through the running order, but the cheers of the crowd above and my fellow racers in the pits brought to light that I was now sitting in 3rd place! I was stalking 2nd place who was running an excellent tight line. I got the drive coming out of turn 1 and the earlier outside pass in the sweeper made me think I could at least stay on the high line into the tight infield. I was as surprised as anyone when the little Mini carved a beautiful line around the outside and ahead into the chicane. From there, I pulled away in to a solid 2nd position. Up in front Philip’s F40 was gone. His car was turning almost the same laptimes as Stock 2WD. While I couldn’t manage to track down the win, I had just driven one of the best races of my life, grinning and laughing the whole way to 2nd place. From the cheers in the crowd and the celebration in the pits afterward, it felt like a win.

I can’t lie and say that the Mini never traction rolled during the main. I got a little aggressive on the exit of turn 2 and managed to tumble into the chicane, beaching the Mini on the rail. The car was literally high centered in the worst spot on the track for a marshal to get to. My buddy Emu had run into some mechanical trouble with his F40 (which was also ballistically fast), so he was laps down on the field. He had just come around the sweeper when he saw where my car was, rounded turn 2, made a beeline for me in the chicane and plowed full throttle into the rail I was on top of. The result? He could have broken my t-plate. He could have bent my axle. He could have broken his car. He could have flipped me on my lid. None of those things happened. The impact popped the little Mini off the rail onto the other side, landing on its wheels and I was back on course costing only a couple seconds for my mistake! A completely intentional, unselfish gamble by Emu had easily saved me a lap so I could continue mowing down the field. To this day, I still can’t figure out how he managed to spot my car, recognize it, weigh the risks of his track position and mine, formulate his harebrained scheme, and execute it against all instincts (it’s completely unnatural to intentionally drive straight into a rail) – all in about 1 second. It’s things like that that you never forget. Even at a toy car race.

EMU
2010.06.20, 02:16 AM
Chapter 4: Race Day!
I can’t lie and say that the Mini never traction rolled during the main. I got a little aggressive on the exit of turn 2 and managed to tumble into the chicane, beaching the Mini on the rail. The car was literally high centered in the worst spot on the track for a marshal to get to. My buddy Emu had run into some mechanical trouble with his F40 (which was also ballistically fast), so he was laps down on the field. He had just come around the sweeper when he saw where my car was, rounded turn 2, made a beeline for me in the chicane and plowed full throttle into the rail I was on top of. The result? He could have broken my t-plate. He could have bent my axle. He could have broken his car. He could have flipped me on my lid. None of those things happened. The impact popped the little Mini off the rail onto the other side, landing on its wheels and I was back on course costing only a couple seconds for my mistake! A completely intentional, unselfish gamble by Emu had easily saved me a lap so I could continue mowing down the field. To this day, I still can’t figure out how he managed to spot my car, recognize it, weigh the risks of his track position and mine, formulate his harebrained scheme, and execute it against all instincts (it’s completely unnatural to intentionally drive straight into a rail) – all in about 1 second. It’s things like that that you never forget. Even at a toy car race.

:D

My race was over, my damper screw had backed out on my RM setup, so I was severely limited entering corners. I spotted the mini stuck on the rail, with no marshall in sight... and reacted. The funniest part, was that it landed right on its wheels, and you got right back on pace. I made the best out of the miserable race that I was having... I think I pulled off the lap after the incident, and watched the rest of the race.

I had gotten tired of watching the car flip off the track every time around the sweeper. To not flip on the sweeper I had to slow down a lot, and take the longest line around the corner that I could (which meant blocking everyone elses line). I felt good that I could help you out. I wanted to see that Mini work its magic ;)