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View Full Version : Can anyone identify the 2.4 steering FET's?


ianc
2009.06.30, 02:28 PM
Hi folks,

I had an unfortunate incident a couple days ago with a brand new AWD board I was preparing for an MRCG and have blown both of what I believe to be the steering FET's on it.

They are the two chips labelled 08 & 09 on the PCB in the attached photo. The chips themselves are labelled M04, and are in a 6-pin package which is rather smaller than the 3010 motor FET's to their right.

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27586&stc=1&d=1246386378

Can anybody recommend a source for a replacement for this part? Here's hoping... :(

Thanks for the help,

ianc

davskee
2009.06.30, 04:48 PM
I have a 2.4 board that has lifted pads for the forward and reverse fets but all other chips are fine. If intrested I can sell you it.

davskee
2009.06.30, 05:18 PM
Can you post a picture of the otherside of the board please.

davskee
2009.06.30, 05:23 PM
What exactly is the issue with this board?

ianc
2009.06.30, 05:25 PM
Here's the other side. Sorry about the size of the images...

http://mini-zracer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27587&stc=1&d=1246397046

ianc

ianc
2009.06.30, 05:26 PM
What exactly is the issue with this board?

Hi Davskee,

The pictured board is not mine, just a couple pics I happened to have.

On my board both of the six pin FET's identified in the first pic are blown. I saw smoke, have no steering, and both FET's are blistered and bubbled on the top,

ianc

davskee
2009.06.30, 05:29 PM
Your mailbox is full and cannot recieve anymore messages. Well let me know if you need my board or not. Im usually at one of the local bay area mini-z tracks on friday and saturday.

ianc
2009.06.30, 05:32 PM
Your mailbox is full and cannot recieve anymore messages.

Hey, I just got an email to that effect, and have gone and cleaned it out, so please PM again. Good to know you are in the bay area... Thanks again,

ianc

davskee
2009.06.30, 06:01 PM
Where do you guys race your mini-z's out there in Navoto? If theres a store that has a track Id like to try it one time. Do you have a picture of the track or the name of the shop?

ianc
2009.06.30, 09:43 PM
Where do you guys race your mini-z's out there in Navoto?

We have been racing in my garage actually... ;)

But the closest hobby shop with a track is Hobby Town in Petaluma,

ianc

herman
2009.06.30, 11:55 PM
hmm... that's something... blown steering fets on an asf board... how'd you happen to do that? what motor were you running? did you have any stacked fets on your board?

thanks for the pics... although i do have an asf... i haven't gotten around to actually open it up and see what it looks on the inside...

i noticed that the asf doesn't have a ''steering pot'' that you can adjust to center steering like on the previous boards. although i haven't read anything on this, i was just wondering what happens if you max out the steering trim and still can't get it to center...

also got a newbie asf stacking question... where do you stack? the top (with the wires) or on the bottom (without the wires)... thinking that the bottom is the more logical choice, but as a newbie asf stacker... i'm not that sure...

wish i could be of some help...

davskee
2009.07.01, 02:30 AM
you usually stack the bottom but if you need to stack the top you need to do some shaving.

ianc
2009.09.10, 04:50 PM
Just a bump for this thread. I still have a 2.4 board that needs new steering FET's, so if anyone knows a replacement chip that will work, please let me know. Thanks,

ianc

color01
2009.09.10, 08:05 PM
I'm taking a look at a couple supplier websites for you, Ian... but haven't found anything so far. I don't even know if M04 is the FET designation or the package type, as both exist. M04-packaged chips seem to only have 4 legs though so it may not be right. The most reasonable match I've found so far is an NE3508M04 chip (N-channel only... huh) made by NEC. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=NE3508M04-A-ND And that's even only assuming that those two chips really are FETs (they probably are given that they seem to connect to the servo motor wires, but you never know till you find the exact replacement).

Have you taken the chips off the board to see which legs are used/necessary? It might help in the search.

ianc
2009.09.14, 05:21 PM
Hi Brian,

Thanks for that link, but the chip pictured there appears to have only 4 legs, so it would probably not be a suitable replacement?

I have not removed the FET's from the board, no. How would this allow me to see which legs are used\necessary? They all appear to be soldered on... Not sure I really understand the question here...

A friend of mine who works at an electronics house also tried looking for 'M04', but didn't come up with anything. He even went so far as to order a couple of these and try soldering them on, but they didn't work:

http://www.icwic.net/icwic/data/pdf/cd/cd048/FETs/d/95099.pdf

I ran into this issue when trying to make an S3114 servo work with the 2.4 board for the MRCG. I followed the directions in your tut on how to wire it, hooked it up to the board and *fizz* went the steering FET's. Everything appears to check out as far as function of the servo, so not really sure what went wrong, and don't have another board to test with, so the MRCG is going nowhere for the moment until I can find replacement chips for the steering FET's and repair the board. I even wrote to Kyosho asking them, but of course haven't heard back. Am not holding my breath on that one...

ianc

color01
2009.09.14, 06:54 PM
No, probably not Ian. If you remove the chips you can sometimes tell which pins are used, and which pins serve the same function. For example, your "normal" 4562 and 8858 FETs will work just fine even if you solder some of the output legs together, since they're the same output. Of course, that's not always the case so there's no guarantee.

Does your friend know of any other FETs that share that packaging? I have a hunch that you need a P+N type of FET chip (one of each type bundled into the package) rather than the dual-P FET that is shown in the link you gave me. 4562's and 8858's are P+N type FETs, btw, which is why I'm making this guess.

ianc
2009.09.15, 02:05 PM
Hi Brian,

He was able to dig up these two:

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NTGD3149C-D.PDF

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NTGD4167C-D.PDF

They are labeled as 'Complementary N-Channel and P-Channel MOSFET's. Is that what you meant in your last post? Any thoughts on the suitability of these two?

Thanks again,

ianc

zippo855
2009.10.11, 12:23 PM
hello guys, i am having the same issue with my board, and was wondering if these were confirmed to be the correct ones?
thanks
Chuck

color01
2009.10.11, 05:26 PM
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Ian, but I think that these are the right type of chip. Complimentary N/P FETs are the ones typically used to drive motors (if you recall, the AM Mini-Z boards used a pair of 3004's to drive the servo motor). I have no way to confirm that it's correct other than ordering a few sample FETs of both of the ones you've found, and trying to stick them on the board. You could also check the dimensions of the FET footprint that are listed at the bottom of those two PDFs, and compare to the pads on your ASF board.

z3zinho
2010.04.26, 09:56 PM
I just had a board that had that also burned one of the servo fet's. So would like to update you guys on my findings.

So far i have managed to identify the pins on the original steering fet's, and managed to use a 3004 mosfet to get the steering working again. So it's confirmed that q9 and q8 are complementary n/p mosfets.


I can't remember the pins exactly, but looking at the high definition pics ianc posted this is what i can figure out

Pin 1 -
Pin 2 - p-channel gate
Pin 3 -
Pin 4 - n-channel source
Pin 5 - n-channel gate
Pin 6 -

So looking at these pins, none of the transistors posted before is a direct replacement.

Action B
2010.04.26, 10:42 PM
I can repair this problem if anyone needs a replacement steering FET.

I have limited supply though of the stock style steering FETs.

z3zinho
2010.04.27, 01:00 PM
Just did a quick search around for some possible replacement transistors.

http://www.vishay.com/docs/71963/71963.pdf
http://www.vishay.com/docs/71168/si1016x.pdf

The difference between these 2 is the package. I don't have any board near me at this time, but if anyone can just measure the pads and the size of the transistor and we might just have found a replacement :)

ivanmartin18
2010.07.19, 03:37 AM
Hi folks,

I had an unfortunate incident a couple days ago with a brand new AWD board I was preparing for a proto and have blown both of what I believe to be the steering FET's on it.

They are the two chips labelled 08 & 09 on the PCB in the attached photo. The chips themselves are labelled M04, and are in a 6-pin package which is rather smaller than the 3010 motor FET's to their right.

Can anybody recommend a source for a replacement for this part? Here's hoping... :(

Thanks for the help,

ianc

Same thing happens to me yesterday!! Did somebody find a replacement?

Thanks in advance!

color01
2010.07.19, 04:17 AM
Alberto has found two candidates above -- even if they're not exactly the OEM chip, as long as the specifications are good then they should be OK as a replacement.

As soon as I get back from my trip I can measure the steering FETs on my 02 ASF board. I think we all kinda forgot about this for a bit, heh. :o

ivanmartin18
2010.07.19, 06:57 AM
Ciao Brian,

Thanks for the answer :-)
I think both of the ones Alberto found are too small, the biggest one is 2.0mm and the fet's on the board looks 2.5 or 3.0mm...

In the mean time, following the suggestion made by Alberto about using the same "standard" fet's, I follow the schemes on the datasheets and here is the results (image attached) Do you think is possible to put together all the ouputs (pins 3 and 6) as on the "standard" fet?

Regards!

ivanmartin18
2010.07.19, 08:58 AM
I think i've found the right size: SuperSOT or TSOP package. It's 3mm x 2.85mm big.

What about the Fairchild FDC6327C? http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FD/FDC6327C.pdf

And the Vishay SI3586DV? http://www.vishay.com/docs/72310/si3586dv.pdf

Thanks

HaCo
2010.08.21, 02:40 AM
Hey guys,
A friend of me has the same problem. Via google I came to this thread (although I know the forum very well :p ).
If the FDC6321 is a good candidate, you can find them here: http://www.mikromodellbau.de/Shop/artikeldetails.php?aid=724

I have an order pending there, will ask if he can add one for test and let you know of course.

Grtz

ianc
2010.08.21, 12:41 PM
will ask if he can add one for test and let you know of course.

Thanks Haco,

Will be interested to learn if you find out anything,

ianc

fraga
2011.01.16, 03:01 PM
I see we have a few candidates in this thread, but has anyone been able to use one of them for a successful repair?

Action B
2011.01.16, 07:46 PM
I have only tried with direct replacement from parts boards and it works. Maybe I will order some of these and give it a shot if no one else has any updates.

pedrocamp
2011.01.16, 08:19 PM
I would like to be able to source these FETs a well. I have had too pull a pair off a parts board a while back.

fraga
2011.01.17, 03:07 AM
I just ordered the Fairchild ones (FDC6327CCT-ND). Will update once I get to try them.

Only one steering fet is blown on the board I will be working on but since I'll be using a different fet version, should I replace both with the new ones?

ianc
2011.01.17, 10:40 PM
should I replace both with the new ones?

Definitely a good idea to keep them consistent. Please keep this thread updated if anyone discovers anything!

ianc

fraga
2011.01.25, 11:41 AM
I got and tried the FDC6327CC, but unfortunately I have inconclusive results.

The fet matches in size and I was able to replace the bad one with no problems. I tested at that point and I got the servo to move correctly. The board was not on the car so I can't say if it would had worked correctly with a load.

I then proceeded to replace the other fet and ran into problems removing it and lifted the pads. The attempt to repair the pads was unsuccessful (I have successfully repaired lifted pads on thruttle fets, but this was too small) and the board is done at this point, so I won't be able to test any further.

I did got 2 more fets for Sai, who has a board with the same problem so hopefully we will have better results with those ones.

pedrocamp
2011.01.25, 11:48 AM
Thanks, look forward to the update.

Action B
2011.01.25, 11:48 AM
I got and tried the FDC6327CC, but unfortunately I have inconclusive results.

The fet matches in size and I was able to replace the bad one with no problems. I tested at that point and I got the servo to move correctly. The board was not on the car so I can't say if it would had worked correctly with a load.

I then proceeded to replace the other fet and ran into problems removing it and lifted the pads. The attempt to repair the pads was unsuccessful (I have successfully repaired lifted pads on thruttle fets, but this was too small) and the board is done at this point, so I won't be able to test any further.

I did got 2 more fets for Sai, who has a board with the same problem so hopefully we will have better results with those ones.

I have experience with repairing lifted pads on steering FETs. Let me know if you'd like me to take a look. Since this is related to building community knowledge I wouldn't charge anything for the repair if it is indeed repairable.

fraga
2011.01.31, 08:18 PM
I have experience with repairing lifted pads on steering FETs. Let me know if you'd like me to take a look. Since this is related to building community knowledge I wouldn't charge anything for the repair if it is indeed repairable.

Well, I think I read your post to late; after I failed to repair the lifted pads I used the board as a "test and training" board. I would need to check what its status is at this point, but I think it now is beyond repair. I'll pull it out latter this week, evaluate the damage and let you know.

Thanks for the offer do. I am also interested in contributing to the community knowledge. I did ordered 2 more steering FETs for a board Sai has with the same problem, so we should also get more info once he attempts the repair.

-j

SaiTam
2011.02.16, 10:00 AM
I'll attempt to fix this today. I'm not sure what to do with the missing pads yet. Is this board totalled?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/dealerxing/Mini-z/SAM_1208.jpg

z3zinho
2011.06.13, 12:43 PM
Did anyone pursue this any further? The FDC6327C has a pinout different from what i had originally found out...

I haven't looked into this for a long time, but am trying to repair a board for a guy at our local forums... once I have a definite answer I will update you guys. ;)

datsunking
2011.06.13, 01:24 PM
these r trade secret i guess :p

delrosa81
2011.06.15, 05:31 AM
these r trade secret i guess :p

Yeah most prob, it would be good if someone who have had prior experience on this to chime in on this.

z3zinho
2011.06.15, 01:59 PM
I have got back into this issue lately. And this is what I have found out
The
FDC6327C and SI3586DV won't work!!!!!

They aren't direct replacements. I think in the portuguese forums we have determined the exact part number for the OEM fet's, but to prevent more misinformation I won't post it until I have tried those fet's myself, which I hope to in 1 to 2 weeks tops.

Action B
2012.01.11, 11:15 AM
Any update on this?

Running out of junked spare 2.4 boards to pull steering FETs from for repairs.

z3zinho
2012.01.11, 04:56 PM
http://mini-zracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36716 ;)