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View Full Version : Reflex Racing 64 Pitch MR-02 Spur Gears.


CristianTabush
2009.07.24, 03:55 PM
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1132_001.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1132_002.jpg
http://www.reflexracing.net/prodimages/images/RX1132_005.jpg

Our line of Spur Gears were designed with maximum performance in mind. We wanted a Spur gear that not only was lighter, but also stronger, truer and more versatile than what is currently available.

We started by going back to the trusty 6 ball design. Lately most spur gears have been increasing the number of balls used. While this is good for ultra high grip tracks, the majority of tracks across the World aren't. This led us to use only 5 balls in the spurs, but many times this proved insufficient engagement in mid- to mid high grip tracks. The 6 ball design is simply the most versatile.

We also eliminated the unnecessary and very heavy center bearing. By Machining the Spur gears instead of molding them, the need for a bearing to make it spin true is not needed any more. This eliminates weight even further in your drive train allowing for quicker acceleration and deceleration.

The spur gear is much narrower as well. This reduces friction even further, again increasing the speed of your car.

Lastly, we made sure the spur gears fit EVERY differential design, regardless of brand. You need not sand down any of the diff parts to make it fit. It is a direct bolt-on. In the case that you did sand down your diff, we offer a spacer kit for $1.00 to take up the gap left from your previous modifying.

Rune
2009.07.24, 06:01 PM
Ordered!
Cant wait to try them out.

pfcparts
2009.07.24, 08:34 PM
Great looking product. Looks to be the 64 pitch
set to get with the loss of the bearing.

Just curious, how durable are those PN shafts?
Per my experience (or inexperience lol), aluminum
threads don't last as long.


parts

CristianTabush
2009.07.24, 09:28 PM
I am yet to have any trouble with the PN Shafts. So long as you do not over tighten them, they should be fine.

Let's get back on track though, this is a thread about our new spurs ;)

EMU
2009.07.24, 09:31 PM
I would have definitely added a few of these to the order that I just received today with the Qteq parts... Would definitely have come in handy at the PN race tomorrow... Will order a few soon ;)

EMU
2009.07.24, 09:40 PM
Just made my order :D Cant wait to try them out, I always thought that the bearing was a little overkill, and added more weight than necessary. May be ok for modified classes, but for stock classes, I think having the bearing out will work better.

Are there plans to produce smaller gears? 52t, maybe even 51t for people that like to gear to the moon...

CristianTabush
2009.07.24, 10:18 PM
I just actually picked them up from the machine shop today, they finished making them yesterday. I wish I could have gotten them out for the NYC regional...

I am definitely planning on different sizes. A 51T and a 55T are the ones that I want to make the most. Increments of just a tooth seem kind of redundant to me, as they make such a small difference. It will be at least a month before we get the other ones out though. A 51T will probably come first and the 55T will follow.

CristianTabush
2009.07.24, 10:21 PM
One of the biggest things that we noticed with Marcus was that the differentials feel SO MUCH SMOOTHER. This is probably due to the fact that they have slim to none chance of rubbing any other diff parts. I always found that with molded spurs, they would sometimes rub the rings and they would have to be shaved slightly to make them work optimal.

rocketman
2009.07.24, 10:42 PM
Great Job CT, I have always been a fan of machined spurs and pinions and hope they work well for you. Glad you thought of this as the other spurs are over kill with the bearing and the contact patch between spur and pinion. I had been trying shorten the pinion so there wasn't so much contact between the two gears. I think it was trinity who did this in 10th scale in the late 80's with great success. I sold tons of the new gears that were thin. Congrats.

MantisMMA
2009.07.24, 10:45 PM
i guess i better start workin on the next batch!! hey CT this may seem hard to believe but i picked up 2 KPH on the dyno with only the spur gear change!! it also increase the first number reading by about 5KPH meaning that it spooled up that much quicker! these things are gonna rule stock class for sure!

CristianTabush
2009.07.24, 10:52 PM
Great news Marcus! Thanks for the kind words Thom! I already have mine installed. Can't wait to run them tomorrow. The quality is so freaking impressive and they mesh so perfectly with PN Pinions.

joey
2009.07.24, 11:10 PM
they look very good, ill have to get a few when you have the 51t made..

rocketman
2009.07.24, 11:59 PM
CT even the teeth are cut correctly to take advantage of longer mesh between spur and pinion. I know you have said that PN match nice but you guys should go the extra mile and get the pinions done also with this tooth profile. You boys got something here on this one. I expect more genius stuff from your abilities.

TB

dvsstrike
2009.07.25, 08:19 AM
ct looks great wish you have the matching thin pinion too. will order some though. with a bunch of other things too.
tim

CristianTabush
2009.07.25, 09:56 AM
Tim, I have thought about it, but at the time, there are 2 obstacles for this:
1.Price: To make the pinions properly, they would have to be molded, and molds are very expensive, we might be able to make some down the road. If we made them machined, they would be even higher in price since it would involve many more operations on a machine to get them cut, so the price of a pinion set would be outrageous as well.
2.Weight: Even if we made them machined, because we found a cheaper way to make them, we would probably have to add an aluminum collar like the PN ones have, therefore gaining back the weight that you would loose by making them thinner.

MantisMMA
2009.07.25, 11:06 AM
CT im impressed with your machine knowledge!!! Tom CT is right, i could make the pinions but they would end up costing more than the spurs because of machine time and to be honest the spur is the one that needs to be more accurate. not only that but when you mold delrin it loses it material characteristics and actually gets soft which is why billet delrin is superior. you guys who are wanting the smaller spur gear, im having a hard time understanding why you cant just run a larger pinion to get the same ratio, in general you want to have a larger spur gear anyway for increased torque and better braking. one of the theories behind having a more efficient drivetrain is that you can actually run a larger spinion gear and get the same run time and higher top end because you dont lose as much power via the drivetrain loss. just a thought!!

dvsstrike
2009.07.25, 11:49 AM
i see it now and you are right about it all. for the smaller spur i like gearing my shiz to the moon. i rather loose some torque because i tend to sqeeze the trigger to quickly. i like the turbo lag:D

MantisMMA
2009.07.25, 12:44 PM
i see it now and you are right about it all. for the smaller spur i like gearing my shiz to the moon. i rather loose some torque because i tend to sqeeze the trigger to quickly. i like the turbo lag:D

you get the same effect from a larger pinion right? give the RR 53t a try, i think you will be pleasently surprised!

CristianTabush
2009.07.25, 02:42 PM
Yo all did give me an idea for the molded PN pinions :P You all will see soon...

ianc
2009.07.25, 05:26 PM
My first thought in looking at this design is that without the bearing, it will allow too much misalignment of the spur gear relative to the diff shaft. The spur wants to tilt anyway due to the force of the pinion on it. This misalignment can easily be seen in the third pic CT posted. This encourages vibration at speed, and could cause the spur gear to rub against the diff plates, adding friction. The bearing helps to keep the spur gear properly aligned for greatest power transmission efficiency.

Of course, I haven't tried them and other people have and like them, so what do I know... ;)

ianc

EMU
2009.07.25, 11:10 PM
Marcus, there are a few reasons that I want the smaller spur... one being controlling the weight distribution by moving the motor. I already run 14/52 on some of my cars, and that barely fits. With a smaller spur, I would have less issues, and could use the 13t instead and have close to the same ratio as with the 14/52, and not have to raise my motor or damper...

Also, smaller pinion = less weight ;)

MantisMMA
2009.07.26, 01:12 AM
My first thought in looking at this design is that without the bearing, it will allow too much misalignment of the spur gear relative to the diff shaft. The spur wants to tilt anyway due to the force of the pinion on it. This misalignment can easily be seen in the third pic CT posted. This encourages vibration at speed, and could cause the spur gear to rub against the diff plates, adding friction. The bearing helps to keep the spur gear properly aligned for greatest power transmission efficiency.

Of course, I haven't tried them and other people have and like them, so what do I know... ;)

ianc


there is no way that can happen there is no vibration because the pinion is DRIVING the spur, if the pinion is straight the spur is straight hence "floating spur. kyosho diffs do not have the bearing and they dont vibrate. the bearing really does nothing at all unless the diff is slipping it rotates 1:1 with the drive shaft.the spur does not want to "tilt" unless you physically do so. the picture that CT took looks like that because he touched the 2 spurs gears together to show the difference in width.

EMU, i love you like a brother but the dirt that gets on the car would make more of a difference than the weight of moving the pinion in .009" (that is the difference between 52 to 53 tooth spur). to put that in perspective your hair is about .005 to .007 on an inch. if you are seriously concerned about the weight of the pinion cut .100 of the end of the motor shaft it weighs about as much as 2 pinions!!

we just returned from racing and i am sure CT is gonna chime in but on my car the acceleration is phenomenal. CT and i could pull on jacob about 3 ' at the start of the race EVERYTIME!! it was crazy!! and coming out of the slow turns you had to actually back of sooner because the cars acceerated sooo much quicker, i ended up having to turn the EPA down about 10%. unfortunately none of us run stock, i am gonna do some stock testing this week, its gonna make a bigger difference in stock.oh and i almost forgot, i actually geared up 11/53 with the 35t PN, i normally run 9 or 10 and i still got over 20minutes of run time. i normally run 12/53 with the pn70!!!

ianc
2009.07.26, 04:04 AM
kyosho diffs do not have the bearing and they dont vibrate.

True, but they have a bushing sleeve for the diff shaft built in to the spur that's at least 5 mm in length. This effectively precludes any concentric axis of rotation problems between spur gear and diff shaft.

The bearing really does nothing at all unless the diff is slipping it rotates 1:1 with the drive shaft.

It does that. But it also provides position constraint for the spur gear relative to the diff shaft

Don't get me wrong. Christian has some great ideas and this may be one of them. I haven't tried it. I'm just offering my initial thoughts for theoretical discussion. Healthy skepticism as they say...

ianc

CristianTabush
2009.07.26, 04:09 AM
I agree with all the things Marcus stated. This design is not new, it has been proven in larger scales through out time. 12th and 10th scale cars don't use a center bearing, because they are simply not needed, they are simply extra rotational mass that contribute nothing but binding to the differential. The pinion drives the spur, and so long as this is the case, the spur will spin true. In the case you have a loose spur "side-to-side" the spacer kit will keep it from wandering.

I understand what EMU says about shifting the weight of the motor further forward or back with different size spurs, but honestly the difference in size between a 51 and 53 is so negligible, that I doubt it will make a true "noticeable" difference in weight placement. If we were talking about a 41 tooth to a 44 in standard pitch (0.5 module) then the difference is huge, but in this case, it is miniscule. The only benefit from a 51 tooth spur would probably be only noticeable in gearing related issues, for fine tuning purposes.

As how they perform, all I can say is WOW!!! Both Marcus and I were pulling Jacob a good 3-5 feet from a dead start at the begining of the race. It was TRULY IMPRESSIVE. I actually out-qualified Jacob tonight by 4 tenths of a second tonight, and should have beaten him in the main if it had not been for some tape getting caught in my rear tire in the main. Considering I have only been to the track twice since the KO GP, I would say they definitely contributed to my car performing better than his tonight. Jacob finished with a 64 lap run on the PN layout in the main, I finished with a low 63 (should have been a low 64), on the same lap as him.

The car was very quiet and very fast. Mr. Feinstein kept saying that Jacob needed a different gear ratio on his car to make it faster. I was using a 9 tooth pinion, with a 35 turn motor. Jacob was using a 33 turn motor with the same gear. My car was by far faster in acceleration and at least as fast in top speed. We both used ORION 750's...

Skeptical as anyone wants to be, these spurs make your car faster, period. It is not about it being a Reflex Product, it is a matter of Physics. :)

BTW, I just green- lighted the 51 Tooth spur project tonight. I guarantee that if you use these spurs, you will not be dissapointed.

CristianTabush
2009.07.26, 04:10 AM
Oh, and BTW, bigger spurs with bigger pinions are more efficient than smaller spurs with smaller pinions...

MantisMMA
2009.07.26, 07:57 AM
True, but they have a bushing sleeve for the diff shaft built in to the spur that's at least 5 mm in length. This effectively precludes any concentric axis of rotation problems between spur gear and diff shaft.



It does that. But it also provides position constraint for the spur gear relative to the diff shaft

Don't get me wrong. Christian has some great ideas and this may be one of them. I haven't tried it. I'm just offering my initial thoughts for theoretical discussion. Healthy skepticism as they say...

ianc

there is no bushing built into the kyosho spur, if you notice the "bushing" you are talking about is the same thickness as the "bushings" around the diff balls!! it is in essence the exact same thickness as the RR spur, its just an illusion. trust me guys i do this all day everyday, the RR spurs ID (inside diameter) is the exact same size as the bearings ID so it has the same effect.

MantisMMA
2009.07.26, 08:15 AM
let me correct that statement, the center "boss" on the kyosho gear is actually thinner than the boss's on the diff balls negating what you were trying to say what that means is that the spur gear will actually move more than previously thought! if you look closely, the boss's around the dif balls are thicker on one side of the spur than the other. on the thick side the center boss is even with the diff balls but on the other side there is no boss in the center but there are still diff ball boss's.

dvsstrike
2009.07.26, 09:51 AM
someone always has a negative to say... the spurs look great. and is a step forward in this scale. all this tech has been proven already in 12th and in 10th
scale pan cars

yasuji
2009.07.26, 12:10 PM
SWEET...... send me some so i can make my car FASTER!......

ianc
2009.07.26, 04:50 PM
there is no bushing built into the kyosho spur, if you notice the "bushing" you are talking about is the same thickness as the "bushings" around the diff balls!!

It occurs to me that you are talking about the Kyosho ball diff. I was referring to the stock K gear diff, and if you disassemble one, you will find that there is indeed a bushing about 5 mm long cast into it.

I don't have a K ball diff, so I can't comment on its construction.

someone always has a negative to say...

And someone always confuses discussion with negativity. I'm a very good customer of Reflex and will continue to be. I merely expressed my initial thoughts about the product. It is OK to do that here, isn't it? Or is that not allowed?

ianc

MantisMMA
2009.07.26, 05:51 PM
im not offended at all!! the only way to learn is to ask questions! no worries

CristianTabush
2009.07.26, 10:49 PM
Ian, that's the problem with forums instead of face to face discussion. I, at no point took any offense to any of your comments. They are genuine concerns and they are appreciated...

CristianTabush
2009.07.27, 12:00 AM
Also, I noticed there is a mad face on one of my previous posts, I don't know how that got there, so I would just like to clear that up. This is one of those threads that can't be edited.

Anyways, back to your questions, and more importantly comments and experiences with these new spurs...

tudor_47
2009.07.27, 03:39 AM
CT,
I saw that you green lighted the 51T spur in a previous text,

how far away are they?


I always run the 52 Pn 64 pitch gear so a 51 would be interesting to try.
Thanks!
/Johnny

MikeL
2009.07.27, 07:49 AM
CT are you going to put together a package with the qtec parts, pn shaft and your spur?

CristianTabush
2009.07.27, 09:25 AM
Johnny, the spurs will be made as quickly as possible. I would say it will take no more than 4 weeks, but Marcus can chime in better than me on that one...

As for making a package, I am considering selling them as a differential "kit", obviously dissasembled to keep the price a little lower. I am just waiting on the new Reflex Diff rings to Arrive, they are already being manufactured, by the same company that makes our bearings, so you know they will be top notch. ;) I think the rings are still a couple of weeks away though.

CristianTabush
2009.07.27, 09:28 AM
FYI, we are also starting kicking around different ideas for a different diff shaft. The ultimate goal is to use all Reflex exclusive parts for the differential ;) We would never just copy a PN design though. So as long as their diff shaft is better than what we can come up with, that's the shaft we are going to use.

MantisMMA
2009.07.27, 09:32 AM
CT,
I saw that you green lighted the 51T spur in a previous text,

how far away are they?


I always run the 52 Pn 64 pitch gear so a 51 would be interesting to try.
Thanks!
/Johnny

im ordering material today so depending on our work load it should be no longer than 5 weeks but more than likely four.

briankstan
2009.07.27, 03:55 PM
CT are you going to put together a package with the qtec parts, pn shaft and your spur?

this is what I'm interested in as well. Or maybe a list of what is needed so I can get the correct parts. ;)

minittrackmann
2009.07.27, 03:56 PM
Yah Im interested in that as well!

pfcparts
2009.07.27, 04:36 PM
A package at little less would be ideal,
especially during these times...

If you don't already have parts to convert
your wallet is in for a world of hurt.

As is, your looking at close to 50 for
just some of the parts of the diff
pictured here excluding the pin
(WTF PN, WTF?), plates, bearing,
e-clip, o-ring, or diff balls... :eek:

On the plus side you guys do have free
shipping over 80. :p

I thought PN's new diff set was expensive...
but WOW! :o


parts

CristianTabush
2009.07.27, 04:53 PM
I know, building a diff with all the parts gets expensive, but I am working on bringing the prices down, I promise.

Among the things I am looking to do is also making a less expensive alternative to the PN Aluminum shaft that is close to the same weight. The QteQ parts are always going to be high, they are made in Japan, so there is no way around it, and unfortunately, the margins are not very good to where I could discount it in the package. I want to shoot for an ultra high end diff in the 50-55 dollar range, I think this will be very achievable once I find a good shaft alternative.

B-main
2009.07.27, 06:04 PM
you could always use shafts like 1/10 pan cars use a carbonfiber rod with stainless steel ends .its just an idea

B-main
2009.07.27, 06:08 PM
kind of like this http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1406

Tjay
2009.07.27, 06:16 PM
awesome! I can't wait to try it!!! Thanks Reflex!

color01
2009.07.27, 07:55 PM
Optimization makes things a lot more expensive... look at 1/10 TC, just 5 years ago the plastic-tubbed shaft-driven AE TC3 was still a winner. I'm sure these new spurs are worth it though, I just bought a machined Delrin pinion and the difference vs. the molded ones is already evident. Machined spur to match it would be ace-- just waiting for my next paycheck. :o



kind of like this http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1406
I've had designs for a diff like this for years but have never found a carbon rod that's within tolerances... I suppose with enough initial investment you could have them custom made, but I definitely haven't built up the funds to swing it yet. The rest of the job seems straightforward, just put them together like 1/12 diffs.

CristianTabush
2009.07.27, 10:28 PM
I have some ideas about a CF shaft, it is just not within the pricing structure that we are looking for. The price of the shaft in the link is expensive, 22.00 is much higher than the PN shaft which is already high at 14.00. Optimization does make the hobby more expensive, but at Reflex, part of our philosophy has always been to make the hobby more affordable. Sometimes this means a slightly higher initial price, but much longer life span, and sometimes it means cheaper and higher quality. I prefer the later ;)

rocketman
2009.07.27, 11:57 PM
I could go on for hours here on this one, I'll spare you the boredom. If it is going to be more expensive than Al then Mg is the way to go, Durability, ultra light weight and ease of machining are its high points.

pfcparts
2009.07.28, 03:40 PM
Good deal ct, I'm sure we'll all keep an
eye out for that.

Optimization is more expensive but jeez
there has to be a cap or else people
wouldn't adopt it... *cough* PS3 *cough*

I used to think 30 was the limit on a
good ball diff, but it has since doubled...

Nowdays 50 would actually be reasonable... :(

Try to reel people in, not push them
out lol.

-----

I thought the discussion was headed towards
cheaper alternatives...

Aren't magnesium alloy chips highly flammable?

Wouldn't that make them more of a hassle to
machine?

Also, with the shaft directly rubbing on the bearings
creating dust, would that be a good idea as it sits
next to the motor?

It is an interesting thought though.


parts

MantisMMA
2009.07.28, 03:58 PM
I could go on for hours here on this one, I'll spare you the boredom. If it is going to be more expensive than Al then Mg is the way to go, Durability, ultra light weight and ease of machining are its high points.

magnesium is not easy to machine!! it will actually catch on fire if the speeds and feeds are not exact. most magnesium products are molded and then maybe lightly machined. and its fumes are toxic!! i think bang for the buck is aluminum, its ultra cheap and easy to machine.

rocketman
2009.07.29, 12:09 AM
I am more that willing to defer to the authority on this issue, and agree with you and your technical analysis over the issues wit Mg. My thought is that if you are going to have a 22.00 axle if cf and a 14.00 axle of Al then as magnesium is about 25-40% more than aluminum that it seemed in the ballpark. The comment about machining is that other alloys, more expensive alloys, are not going to yield a better performing product , share problems with machined magnesium as far as swarf goes but in my view nothing performs better for our circumstances. I have had more than 100 CF 10th/12th/18th scale axles fail on me while I was trying to build a tamiya ball diff for the road wizard. Yes it was years ago and the glues and techniques are better but the product at CF really isn't and in my view is clearly a wear item and expensive wear item. Magnesium, get one and the your done. So the ease of machining was based solely on the thought that there are other materials out there that machine with more difficulty than Mg and that was my point from information I got from the Mg machinists who used to build my oval cars by hand.

MikeL
2009.07.29, 09:39 AM
magnesium is not easy to machine!! it will actually catch on fire if the speeds and feeds are not exact. most magnesium products are molded and then maybe lightly machined. and its fumes are toxic!! i think bang for the buck is aluminum, its ultra cheap and easy to machine.

Do you think alum 2mm threads would hold up? I would want steel threads for the wheel nuts personally.

CristianTabush
2009.07.29, 10:26 AM
They will hold up, they do on the PN shaft. They do on 1/10th scale buggies, trucks and Pan Cars. The issue is simply not overtightening these cars as they are small and easy to strip due to the force that some people use on the nuts and bolts.

MikeL
2009.07.29, 10:30 AM
They will hold up, they do on the PN shaft. They do on 1/10th scale buggies, trucks and Pan Cars. The issue is simply not overtightening these cars as they are small and easy to strip due to the force that some people use on the nuts and bolts.

Which PN shafts are alum? I thought they were all steel? I'm guessing the new ultra light one?

MantisMMA
2009.07.29, 12:50 PM
I am more that willing to defer to the authority on this issue, and agree with you and your technical analysis over the issues wit Mg. My thought is that if you are going to have a 22.00 axle if cf and a 14.00 axle of Al then as magnesium is about 25-40% more than aluminum that it seemed in the ballpark. The comment about machining is that other alloys, more expensive alloys, are not going to yield a better performing product , share problems with machined magnesium as far as swarf goes but in my view nothing performs better for our circumstances. I have had more than 100 CF 10th/12th/18th scale axles fail on me while I was trying to build a tamiya ball diff for the road wizard. Yes it was years ago and the glues and techniques are better but the product at CF really isn't and in my view is clearly a wear item and expensive wear item. Magnesium, get one and the your done. So the ease of machining was based solely on the thought that there are other materials out there that machine with more difficulty than Mg and that was my point from information I got from the Mg machinists who used to build my oval cars by hand.

everything you say is true but i think one of the issues with all of this is that market for miniz axles is not going to warrant reflex having a Mg cast made because machining from bar stock would not be efficient at the quantities needed. now if Ct wants to make 500 axles that would be a different story but it would prob take 4 years to sell that many axles! As stated by CT as long as you dont overtighten the axles you wont have issues with the Al. some people still use the stock plastic wheel nuts!
as far as the CF shaft is concerned, i think that i could be done within reason but honestly if it does not end up being lighter than aluminum than why bother? a lighter shaft makes less of a difference than say lightweight diff plates or balls because they rotate at a higher rate of momentum. ie switching from SS balls to ceramic balls makes a bigger diff than switching from a SS axle to an Al axle in acceleration. this is one of the reasons the QTEC parts make such a big difference!

CristianTabush
2009.07.29, 03:31 PM
Well put Mr. Marcus!!!

The reason why I am contemplating making an axle is simply because of economies of scale. The more of them I make, the cheaper I can sell them for, and the cheaper a truly "Ultimate" differential kit for sale will be. I don't want to just release another shaft though. I am looking at it from different angles to see if it is possible to build a better one. One possibility is to integrate a true thrust bearing into the diff. This will make the differential action even more consistent than what it is today. We are playing around with different designs right now, so don't hold your breath waiting for it, as it might be a while.

On the good news side, I just heard yesterday that our diff rings are almost finished. These are being made by the same factory that makes our bearings, so the quality qill be second to none. Another good thing: The Price!!! I am looking at about $3.00/pr... :)

Davey G
2009.07.29, 04:12 PM
Which PN shafts are alum? I thought they were all steel? I'm guessing the new ultra light one?

Yup, the new orangey/burnt anodized one is aluminum.

rocketman
2009.07.30, 11:55 AM
Marcus. I agree.

dvsstrike
2009.07.31, 09:38 PM
tried the spurs. they are great.fit a little snug on the pn alumn shaft...but with a little work. perfect! super quiet,also. i'm running a 13t pinion on pn70t super fast.

rocketman
2009.07.31, 10:25 PM
So I have spent some time today looking at the gears I got and Marcus and CT, they are awesome. Just exactly the way they should be. Now if you guys are going to bring out other sizes, can I dye them to easily ID the different sizes or will it negatively affect the strength of the Delrin you guys used.

Great innovation for racing.

CristianTabush
2009.08.01, 12:17 AM
I have not tried dying them. I would just mark them with a sharpie to tell them apart. The reason why I chose white delrin was to be able to identify wear easily and be able to replace them when necessary.

CristianTabush
2009.08.01, 12:18 AM
Tim, good to know they worked out for you :) Funny you say they were snug on the PN Shaft. Was there perhaps a little bit of burring left in the center hole?

Thanks for the feed back I really appreciate it guys...

pedrocamp
2009.08.01, 04:16 AM
I ordered two and one of them was tight on the PN shaft, nothing a deburr-scraper tool won't take care of though. My car felt faster out of the corner and diff action was improved, thanks Reflex...

dvsstrike
2009.08.01, 06:00 AM
no burr in the hole. just snug. i just ran a reamer through it

MantisMMA
2009.08.01, 08:29 AM
interesting, about the snug fit although its better to be tight than loose in this situation but we did not come across that in testing. has anybody tried the RR spur with a complete qtec setup along with either the PN al shaft or 3r ti shaft yet? i would like to have some feedback from a PN70 car.

MantisMMA
2009.08.01, 08:30 AM
to answere your question Tom, the dye will not effect the delrin. this brings up a point though. i think i can get grey black and white delrin.

CristianTabush
2009.08.01, 08:39 AM
Check the OD on your PN Shafts... Make sure they are the same. These were all cut on a NASA- precision CNC Machines. I will start checking the spurs for these inconsistencies as well. Glad you all like them so far... :)

MantisMMA
2009.08.01, 11:06 AM
the same drill was used for all of the parts and they were drilled at the same time so the hole sizes are all the same. so either there is a burr on the hole or the PN shaft may be on the high side of their tolerance.the drill cannot make a smaller hole its impossible but it can make a bigger hole.

EMU
2009.08.01, 12:38 PM
I am going to be building a Qteq/3Racing ti/Kyosho plate diff with Reflex balls and spurs... just need to find my shaft, I misplaced it :eek:

dvsstrike
2009.08.01, 02:47 PM
i hate when i misplace my shaft!:D but the topic at hand...i'm running all qtec an the pn alum sfat as well as nitride diff balls, works awsome with the pn70t.

CristianTabush
2009.08.01, 03:08 PM
Just got done measuring a fairly large sample of each. The Spurs vary within 0.1mm in ID, the Shafts vary within 0.1mm in OD. If you happen to get a big shaft and a small spur, this is a 0.2mm variation, which would account for them being a little tight. So neither product seems to be flawed. I much rather have tight than loose fit though.

MantisMMA
2009.08.01, 04:08 PM
i hate when i misplace my shaft!:D but the topic at hand...i'm running all qtec an the pn alum sfat as well as nitride diff balls, works awsome with the pn70t.

so going from your normal diff to the "super" diff what driving characteristics did you notice? were you able to run faster times?

pedrocamp
2009.08.01, 07:33 PM
I am running the full QTEQ kit with the PN aly shaft. I tried both spurs on this same shaft and found one snug and one that fit nicely. I agree it is just tolerance overlap, I'd rather have them slightly snug and finish to fit than loose. I found that I didn't have to crank down on the diff as much and the car accelerated better. My diff has a bit more noise than I did with the PN 53T. I changed pinions and still had the gear noise, a little quieter though. I will have to fit up my other spur gear and see how noisy that one is. Both my pinions are used, the second one has very few laps though. I will try a new pinion as well.

bobbyz
2009.08.02, 12:21 AM
just wanting to check if these new spurs will fit on a Kyosho MR-01 diff shaft also?

thanks, bob

CristianTabush
2009.08.02, 03:55 AM
They are going to make a little more noise than the plastic ones if not meshed correctly because the material is much harder, this is just a property of harder materials.

As for fitting the MR01 diff, It should, I can't think of why it would not work.

pedrocamp
2009.08.02, 07:11 AM
Do you recommend any more or less gear mesh play than the standard PN Spur? I had to add a spacer to limit the side to side travel but it still has about .010". How much did you limit this?

CristianTabush
2009.08.02, 11:01 AM
I mesh them about the same, but remember 64 pitch meshes much closer than all the other modules (48 pitch, 05 pitch).

As for spur gear play, it does not really matter if there is a bit. The spur gear is the same width as the PN center bearing, so effectively they are the same "width" the reason why the PN spurs won't move so much side to side is because they will hit the rings as they move. This is not an issue since when the spur gear moves, it drives the pinion, making it practically impossible to for it to touch the rings/diff assembly.

With that said, using spacers to take play away does not hurt at all. I have actually done it with all the brands of spurs I have used to reduce excessive space. Atomic's AWD spring pre-load washers work great for this...

pedrocamp
2009.08.02, 11:11 AM
I had sanded my diff half on the QTEQ part to work with the Kyosho rings so there was a bit if side to side play with your spur. I noticed that the gear would actually travel far enough to contact the diff ring and "bond" itself to the face due to the grease, the diff felt tighter due to the drag of the spur stuck to the diff ring. I don't know if this could have happened on the track but I added the spacers just in case.
Do you think the machined pinions are a better match for this spur?

CristianTabush
2009.08.02, 11:17 AM
If you sanded your parts, definitely, use the spacer kit. I actually have both my diffs like this for the same reason. I think the machined pinions will probably mesh better, but the molded ones should give you no problem.

dvsstrike
2009.08.02, 01:19 PM
the new diff and gear runs great slows down alot easier and i now have my inertia off so that it rolls real easy. its faster coming out of corners and it does not have tq steer with the diff tight

wcrotty
2009.08.05, 01:36 PM
I agree with all the things Marcus stated. This design is not new, it has been proven in larger scales through out time. 12th and 10th scale cars don't use a center bearing, because they are simply not needed, they are simply extra rotational mass that contribute nothing but binding to the differential.

Hey Cristian,

just an FYI,

I'm built my 10th scale and building my 12th scale pan cars for the IIC vegas race and both use center bearings.

Spur gear looks cool though.

Bill

CristianTabush
2009.08.05, 01:38 PM
Tomatoe, Tomato. My World GT Car doesn't have one :o

wcrotty
2009.08.05, 02:07 PM
Cool, what are you running?

CristianTabush
2009.08.05, 04:43 PM
Gen X10 :P

Have not driven it yet though, it is just built sitting on a shelf. It really belongs to a guy I built it for, but he still owes me some money for it, so I am just awaiting payment to send it out. Cool car though...

Tjay
2009.08.07, 03:05 AM
I'm quite busy so I'm going to skip some of the pages... I meant all. :D

I'm running the ultra light weight shaft by PN racing with the 1st gen diffs (black). My question is, how do I make the spur stay in the middle? Using the spacer in the middles does not make any sense since I'm running PN diffs and without the spacer, the spur get stuck on to the outer diff and when it does, the grease is making the diff action feels sticky. Like it has a lot of resistance. Unlike when you have the spur in the middle. It is super smooth.

So how do I make this spur sit in the middle? I think if I can have the spur not touching the side disc, it would be much smoother and faster.

MantisMMA
2009.08.07, 07:44 AM
Tjay , the spur is not going to sit in the middle, no spur gear actually does , they are all offset. look closely at the PN and kyosho spurs. if you take a pn spur gear and sand it so that it is equal on both sides it is going to sit to the same side, the reason is that the pin in the shaft is closer to the right side and the RR spurs are flat . but if you think about it the only time the spur gear and the diff are not spinning 1:1 is when you actually in a long sweeping turn. the spur gear will touch if you push it towards the side but when you are driving it will center itself between the pin and the DR side diff ring! hope this makes sense. basically what i am telling you is that the thickness of the spur is the same as all spurs but because it is flat you can actually see whats going on and its kind of an optical illusion!!! check the play that you have with any of your other diffs , it is the same.

MantisMMA
2009.08.07, 07:47 AM
also if im not mistken, you only need the spacers if you shaved down the diff hub previously. if you put the spacer on the right side of the dif its going to push the spur into the pin and that will make it feel rough.

Tjay
2009.08.07, 11:54 AM
Thanks Marcus! The installation is pretty straight forward however, when testing the diff with your hand, the diff feels like it has a lot of grease packed in it, when there's only minimum (balls only). Reason why it felt that way is because the spur is stuck on one side of the plate and in this case it's stuck on the outer side (Right Rear). The disc and spur are so flat that when they touch it is almost like a suction. That or it could be the grease that got spreaded out from the balls to the disc, causing the spur to stick on the disc.

I know exactly what you mean when the car is on power and the spur center itself out however, I did a test on this spur last night and the car hooks on a half to off throttle steering coming in to an "S". I think the spur is causing a "drag brake" when the speed of the spur is slowed down. Since the spur needs to be constantly powered to be on center, off throttle (slower speed) will cause the spur to offset itself.

I am not done with my testing and I will definitely put more time into it. The great thing about this spur though is the significant difference in speed. I know I did felt the speed coming out of a corner. I was running 4.00 gear ratio with my PN motor/spur and with Reflex spur and PN motor I can run 3.7 gear ratio and the car is almost as fast a atomic USA motor. That's pretty fast!

MantisMMA
2009.08.07, 12:41 PM
thats the kind of feedback we are looking for!! just for kick try assemblying it dry and see if it does the same thing, we have not come across this as of yet.

CristianTabush
2009.08.07, 01:06 PM
DON"T ever run your diffs dry though. Test it, but grease actually keeps crap from getting inside. What needs to be done is to play with the shimming of the spur. I have found good results with my sanded diff parts. It is easier to center this way, but it is not dire that it is done, especially with parts such as the PNs...

To center the Spur on PN diffs use 1 Gold Atomic AWD Spring tension shim (0.2mm thickness, part no.AWD084) on the left side of the spur and 2 blue and 1 gold on the right side (1.2mm of shimming) this acts much like your front bearing spacers and helps the thrust bearing work more effectively, achieving awesome diff feel. Try it out!

CristianTabush
2009.08.07, 01:17 PM
Nix the results, I just did it better and got more precise fitment.
PN Diff:
1 gold and 1 blue spacer on left side, (0.6mm) and 3 blue (1.2mm) on the right you might still be able to fit an extra gold to get extra tight fitment, so long as it is not binding, it works awesome.

For shims, use the Atomic AWD084 part.

The spurs don't really need shimming, but if you are facing the problems described, this should eliminate them.

CristianTabush
2009.08.07, 01:33 PM
I keep looking at the diff and I saw something about it that I had not experienced previously. Our spacer kit does not work because of the inside diameter of the PN Right Diff Half. I have worked out a solution and will release a spacer kit specific to the PN diff. If you want to make one yourself, again it takes only an Atomic AWD084 kit. I am using a total of 1.6mm of spacing on the right and 0.4mm on the left. But it can also go 0.6mm on the left and 1.4 on the right.

Tjay
2009.08.07, 01:38 PM
Cristian: I'm at work and it is exactly 11:38am. You're gonna make me drive to the shop and hook up my Mini-z... lol.

I will definitely try that out. Thanks!

CristianTabush
2009.08.07, 02:38 PM
NP, when we did these, we had more of the Kyosho and QteQ diff parts in mind. I do think centering the spur, even though not necessary to see an increase in performance with these gears, will make the differential action work better than without it, and far better than any other diff I have ever felt...

MantisMMA
2009.08.07, 03:54 PM
CT why dont you type up the spacer sequence for each shaft ie PN ,3r,kyosho and then each shaft with qtec parts?

CristianTabush
2009.08.07, 04:23 PM
I will. I am working on it ;)

minittrackmann
2009.08.09, 12:50 AM
When running the qtec parts. Do you have to use ca glue and glue the star to the plate? Or is ca not a must?

Ca'ed my one diff and it runs great. but now that im not home i dont have ca and i wanna build it...

Cody

lfisminiz
2009.08.09, 01:27 AM
Cody.......ca glue the star tips to the plates. Check reflexes site...1st article is on diff rebuild and it shows it.;)

LARRY

EMU
2009.08.09, 02:28 AM
You can sand the plate with rough grit paper on the reverse side of the plate that contacts the balls, to hold it in place better, then rebuild it with CA when you get home...

I had a chance to try out the Reflex spur today. I built up a Qteq diff with Kyosho ti shaft, o-ring and diff plates, Reflex bearing and balls... I am impressed. With the large spacer from the reflex kit (1mm 3Racing red I assume), it was a little too long, and locked the spur to the right wheel. I used 3x small spacer (.3mm ATM red) on the right side of the spur, and it worked very well. I am going to try the .5mm 3Racing blue and one .3mm red spacer and see how it is... The Qteq diff has a lot cutout on the inside of the right wheel plate holder, so more shims are needed than the ATM/PN or shaved down Kyosho diffs...

I didnt have any sandpaper, but the diff still felt good... I have a Qteq diff with a PN spur on a different car, both with 70t motors... I felt a little more pull out of the corner, and more control through the corner with the 6 balls compared to the 5 in the PN. Mesh was really good, I couldnt hear the car at all.

The Qteq diff parts and the Reflex spur are an amazing match! With a few shims to prevent the spur from rubbing the right diff plate, its perfect.

When shimming a diff that is sanded down, is it best to try to center it around the balls? As even as possible between the two plates? Or is there very little difference.

Another thing to note... I was using -1mm offset rear wheels, and I still had a little room. This spur is going to do wonders on the F1 diffs :P It cuts down on diff building time a lot. You dont need to shave down the hubs, which makes it a pain to use a Kyosho diff. And you have a lot more clearance for the rear wheels for F1 and negative offset rear wheels.

The best spur on the market. Hands down. I plan to swap over many if not all of my cars.

GIHOSU
2009.08.09, 03:24 AM
I have seen 2 Reflex Spur equipped cars simply walk away for A-main wins. Phil put one in his stock car and he had 2 laps on 2nd place if I remember correctly. Eugene had an amazing pace with his MR-015 tonight. I think he was 2 laps up on 2nd as well. As he stated, he built his diff right before the race. He used Kyosho grease. His corner exit speed is noticeably quicker with the Reflex Spur. If you can consistently exit every turn hotter you win the heat. Every race is decided in the turns.
I am fortunate enough to possess one of these valuable pieces of work. This is going right into my MR-015 because my usually strong car just doesn't seem to have the feeling that I need. I had a very strong run in the B-main. I bumped up to the A but I had trouble with my steering. I must have some RCP chunks in the case. After a few laps it was drifting hard to the left and I took it off instead of trying to steer an outside line on every turn to let faster traffic fly by.

Eugene really made me think a lot about the GT-R body that I have, Iím going to break the seals on it and see what it can do. The body change alone could be a welcome eye-opening.

The diff upgrade is proving to be a severe advantage over a PN 64p spur. Christian, please get us some pinions that match the quality of your spur. As much as I want to see quality parts be proven to perform at a higher level, I want a pinion so we can enjoy the maximum power gains that can be attained with parts that run with precision and decreased resistance.

My car background is with 1:1 cars. I set up my Zís to drive that way the real car would. Car nuts spend big bucks to reduce friction. All we have to do is buy a $10 spur. In comparison, we are blessed. I havenít installed mine yet. I just observed. Next week Iíll be able to post actual results.

EMU
2009.08.09, 03:33 AM
My car was so fast, that someone gave me a 'handicapped SLOW 70t"... I put it in, oiled the bushings, and was the fastest car on every section of the track. The motor was actually a little faster than the motor that I had in there originally which was from the March KO race, but was not fast compared to any of the 70t motors that I got at the PN race a couple weeks ago.

GIHOSU
2009.08.09, 03:46 AM
Hmmmmm, the super secret lube was effective. Thanks to NASA and the great state of Tennessee...

CristianTabush
2009.08.09, 10:28 AM
Guys, I am very happy to hear these results... This is extremely good new for us... Like I stated, I am working on spacing diatances and I am planning on making spacific spacing kits for all brands of diffs...

EMU
2009.08.09, 10:38 AM
I think .9mm on the right side of a non modified qteq diff is a good start :P

color01
2009.08.09, 07:24 PM
Just bought a spur and shims, Cristian -- can't wait to completely rebuild my diff yet again. :D

CristianTabush
2009.08.09, 07:30 PM
Hopefully it makes you go faster :)

lfisminiz
2009.08.09, 09:18 PM
Cristian...did you get an update on the ETA for the diff rings to go with the spur and Q parts?;)


LARRY

CristianTabush
2009.08.09, 10:29 PM
Rings are in... They are up on the site now... I am working on the media and technical info tonight... I just introduced a new twist into the diff ring world :P

lfisminiz
2009.08.10, 04:33 AM
Good to hear....need the goods to finish up my diffs..........;):)


LARRY

MantisMMA
2009.08.11, 11:48 AM
out of curiousity, does anyone still feel the need for 51t??

EMU
2009.08.11, 04:13 PM
51!!! Of course :P I always like to have options, and when using the 13t or 14t pinions with the 53t, I have to lower the rear axle to get appropriate gear mesh (ATM 94 mm motormount).

tudor_47
2009.08.12, 04:48 AM
Yes!

give us 51!
and while you're at it give us a 52 aswell!
/Johnny

chad508
2009.08.14, 07:08 PM
okay i got the spur and shim set but i cannot figure out where the shims go on the dif. they will not slide over the diff where the qteq plates are. does anyone have a pic of the diff with shims they would share? thanks

EMU
2009.08.15, 12:10 PM
With the Qteq diff parts. Put the left plate holder/plate on the shaft, put the spur on (with balls), put about 6-9mm of spacers, put the right plate holder/plate on, bearing and e-clip...

color01
2009.08.16, 01:08 AM
RE Qteq diff hubs, for those of y'all who modified them to work with PN spurs, a good number of ATM AWD084 shims seems to be as follows:

Between left diff hub and spur -- 1 gold (0.2mm)
Between right diff hub and spur -- 5 blue (0.4mm) total 2mm of shims

There's still a little bit of angular play left but the axial (left/right) play is next to nothing.

I like this new spur very much, Cristian + Marcus, feels pretty solid and definitely very light. I expect to see a good improvement in acceleration and deceleration when I finally get my MRCG1.1 on the track after a few months. :)

chad508
2009.08.16, 08:11 AM
my problem is the shims will not slide over the shaft where the spur goes. its a little thicker there and will not slide over that part. i've tried on pn ultra light weight shaft and a atomic tt shaft. i checked o make sure order the right shims and i did. just not having much luck.

Old Crow
2009.08.16, 03:55 PM
I want Chad to get his question answered, and mine mite have a same or similar answer, the spur gear itself, does not spin freely on the PN Alum Light weight shaft. I did see earlier where this was discussed, but what would be the best method for getting the hole slightly bigger so it will spin freely, but not be too loose. I don't want to ruin it.

Thanks

CristianTabush
2009.08.16, 05:26 PM
The spur not spinning freely does not really affect performance. A couple of runs and it will loosen up. As for Chad, I think you might have ordered the incorrect shims. The part no is AWD 084 or AR-174

As for making the hole bigger, a drill bit with the same diameter as the shaft will do the job best. If you are careful, you can use an X-ACTO knife to barely clean up the edges...

chad508
2009.08.16, 06:25 PM
according to my order i got the awd084. i do not have the atomic label anymore to make sure that is what i got. is their any way you can see if thats what was shipped to me cristian.
thanks chad


The spur not spinning freely does not really affect performance. A couple of runs and it will loosen up. As for Chad, I think you might have ordered the incorrect shims. The part no is AWD 084 or AR-174

As for making the hole bigger, a drill bit with the same diameter as the shaft will do the job best. If you are careful, you can use an X-ACTO knife to barely clean up the edges...

MantisMMA
2009.08.17, 03:05 PM
Yes!

give us 51!
and while you're at it give us a 52 aswell!
/Johnny

im working on the 51's but im pretty sure there will be no 52's but maybe 55's down the road for f1's or high revvin mods!!

on a side note i had a VERY good driver do some testing for me while we were in Cali for the regional and here is what i did:

his car the way he ran it he would run consistent 9.7's and maybe squeak in a 95 on ocassion.

took his diff assembly off and installed my QTEC/REFLEX super diff along with a set of SSG's and his best time dropped down to a 9.4 but averaged around 9.5

i next put his diff on and the same SSG's and his fast lap was a 9.5 but his consistency was not as good as it was with the super dif but was better than his original setup.

his basic setup was 94mm pn70car with a 360GTC body(and he is not a reflex driver). so just as we expected the super diff was more consistent and faster, the first words out of his mouth after we got the diff set right was "WOW this is very smooth and predictable, it comes out of the turns alot faster"

chad508
2009.08.17, 04:47 PM
well i think i found my problem with the shims. i just found the sheet and some how i did order the wrong thing. i got the awd079 shims instead. oh well i need to make another order anyways. maybe i'll have better luck then.

color01
2009.08.25, 02:17 AM
So I finally got a chance to try these out... I'm impressed! Brought the MRCG1.1 to Inside Line Racing for the first time in a long time.

My initial thoughts were that the Reflex spur/machined PN 64p gears still aren't quite as quiet as a Kyosho spur/PN Pro-match pinion combo, but they're close and the tighter mesh is only a good thing.

As for power delivery, it was definitely there. I only got good battery power for the first 5 minutes, but for those minutes I was not losing out to the local Mod cars and could muster enough corner exit speed to make some good passes. The biggest difference IMO is the immediate deceleration when letting off the trigger. The rear end has become a lot more sensitive thanks to all the latest diff parts, and the drag braking effect has been intensified -- good, but will take time to get used to. Because of the increased drag brake it's just too easy to throw the car into a drift. :eek: Nonetheless, two thumbs up for the Reflex spur, and hope it serves me well this Wednesday. :)

Rune
2009.08.31, 07:02 PM
All I can say. Wow!
This really works good.
As Color says, not only are the acceleration increased, but the decelleration also.

I use K plates, QteQ diff hubs (grinded down), PN alu shaft, and the shim set that Reflex sells with it fits perfectly.
Great product Reflex Racing.

MantisMMA
2009.09.01, 12:26 AM
So I finally got a chance to try these out... I'm impressed! Brought the MRCG1.1 to Inside Line Racing for the first time in a long time.

My initial thoughts were that the Reflex spur/machined PN 64p gears still aren't quite as quiet as a Kyosho spur/PN Pro-match pinion combo, but they're close and the tighter mesh is only a good thing.

As for power delivery, it was definitely there. I only got good battery power for the first 5 minutes, but for those minutes I was not losing out to the local Mod cars and could muster enough corner exit speed to make some good passes. The biggest difference IMO is the immediate deceleration when letting off the trigger. The rear end has become a lot more sensitive thanks to all the latest diff parts, and the drag braking effect has been intensified -- good, but will take time to get used to. Because of the increased drag brake it's just too easy to throw the car into a drift. :eek: Nonetheless, two thumbs up for the Reflex spur, and hope it serves me well this Wednesday. :)


we are finding that diff adjustments are for more critical now, try loosening the diff just a weeeeeee bit and you should eliminate that entry drift but still allow some rotation on exit. because the car decelerates so quickly both tires are "locking up". when Jacob and i were first testing with it at my track, every time we put the car back on the track we had to adjust the dif because of the increased track grip!

Traveler
2009.09.25, 07:17 AM
Loving the 53t spur, but waiting on the 51t. What's the latest Reflex?

CristianTabush
2009.09.25, 07:19 AM
Early to mid next week for the arrival of both more 53T and the all new 51T

Traveler
2009.09.25, 07:24 AM
:cool: Thanks!

Traveler
2010.02.24, 09:46 AM
I now have 5 QteQ/RR diffs :eek:, all on 3R Ti shafts. Awesome combo! :D

For unmodified QteQ diff hubs on 3R shafts with Kyosho rings, 2mm of shims to the right of the spur seems to be perfect!

The last two diffs I built had the 51t RR spur. I think I like it even more than the 53t on my home track, and expect to like it even more when I get the cars on the larger track at my LHS.

Keep up the good work Cristian & Marcus!

JuniorWKR
2011.03.29, 10:29 AM
i have been working on my reflex spur gears and i really like them.. first you get a some estra punch outta them.. especially in stock due to the light weight... in mod its a little tougher for me to notice because i run a small amount of slip in my diff but im sure its there... the major thing i noticed with this spur gear is the amount of decelaration i get... its a huge difference... its like instantly adding drag brake... i love it... i can dive into the turns so much faster and tighter now... i am running this spur on all 3 of my diffs... 2 qtec setups and one pn setup...

wha ti noticed about this spur is ther was some extra play in it due to how narrow the spur is and it was causing some vibration issues for me... i solved it with a simple fix...

i first crazy glued in the center bearing as instructed on the website... i then apllied a small amount of glue to the outter edge of the bearing and installed a awd diff shim to each side of the spur... it works and fits flawlessly... its amazing how smooth this spur is and how centered it stays now... i am attahing a pic for you guys to reference... sorry for the poor pic quality it was from my phone...

tr1kstanc3
2011.05.03, 11:28 AM
wha ti noticed about this spur is ther was some extra play in it due to how narrow the spur is and it was causing some vibration issues for me... i solved it with a simple fix...

i first crazy glued in the center bearing as instructed on the website... i then apllied a small amount of glue to the outter edge of the bearing and installed a awd diff shim to each side of the spur... it works and fits flawlessly... its amazing how smooth this spur is and how centered it stays now... i am attahing a pic for you guys to reference... sorry for the poor pic quality it was from my phone...

Do you have a part number for the awd diff shim, or the dimensions for the shim itself? I'd like to try this since I've been having issues with it not staying centered. Thanks!

JuniorWKR
2011.05.03, 11:33 AM
i dont have a part number as it came in the kit with the kyosho awd diff for the awd... not sure they sell them seperatly... maybe CT can help you out in this area.. or maybe you have a buddy who has some extra shims from his awd...

EMU
2011.05.03, 08:56 PM
I know that ATM makes a shim set for the AWD diffs... I will try to find the part number...

Not the ATM version (3Racing)... but here is a 6x8mm set (.1/.2/.3mm thickness): http://store.hkshobby.com/product_info.php?products_id=8997

chad508
2011.05.03, 09:58 PM
on the reflex site it is either AWD079 or the AWD084. i got both not being sure which was right. one set is 2mm inside and the other is the 3mm inside diameter, which is the ones needed to space out the spur. hope this helps

chad508
2011.05.03, 10:56 PM
now that i can see the pic JR posted what i used is not the same. i used the shims CT suggested when he first released these spurs. although they may still work for you

Traveler
2011.05.04, 08:51 AM
i have been working on my reflex spur gears and i really like them.. first you get a some estra punch outta them.. especially in stock due to the light weight... in mod its a little tougher for me to notice because i run a small amount of slip in my diff but im sure its there... the major thing i noticed with this spur gear is the amount of decelaration i get... its a huge difference... its like instantly adding drag brake... i love it... i can dive into the turns so much faster and tighter now... i am running this spur on all 3 of my diffs... 2 qtec setups and one pn setup...

wha ti noticed about this spur is ther was some extra play in it due to how narrow the spur is and it was causing some vibration issues for me... i solved it with a simple fix...

i first crazy glued in the center bearing as instructed on the website... i then apllied a small amount of glue to the outter edge of the bearing and installed a awd diff shim to each side of the spur... it works and fits flawlessly... its amazing how smooth this spur is and how centered it stays now... i am attahing a pic for you guys to reference... sorry for the poor pic quality it was from my phone...

Neat fix JR. I never had a problem with the v1 spurs, but I do find it hard to keep the v2 spur with bearing centered. Are you using the 2mm or 2.5mm center bearing? In the tutorial on the website, CT shows the bearing being flush with one side of the spur and protruding on the other side. Is this what you did, or did you try to center the bearing in the spur?

Thanks!

JuniorWKR
2011.05.04, 08:59 AM
i centered the bearing...

Traveler
2011.05.04, 09:09 AM
Thanks JR! Do you know if you are using 2mm or 2.5mm bearing on your QteQ setups?

JuniorWKR
2011.05.04, 12:03 PM
i will have to ask CT... it was whatever he sent me... i will find out and get back to ya...

tr1kstanc3
2011.05.04, 12:37 PM
I found a part number from Kyosho for 6x8mm shims.

KYO96046

Traveler
2011.05.05, 05:26 AM
I just took a little closer look at mine and can better see what you did now.

Betting you used the 2mm thick center bearing, as its about the same thickness as the spur. I you had used the 2.5mm one, there would have been a gap between one or both of the AWD diff shims and the spur.

Went ahead and did mine like yours and hope it works better. Will have to let the CA set for a while... It was pretty stressful applying CA so close to the balls inside the bearing, but I think I kept the glue out because it still spins freely.

Thanks Junior!

JuniorWKR
2011.05.05, 10:25 AM
no prob... let me know how you make out...

JuniorWKR
2011.05.05, 10:59 AM
mine is with the 2.5mm bearing then. I have the space between the shim and the spur on both sides since i centered the bearing... once i had the shims in place and the glue was dry i then filled in the gap with a small amount of additional glue...

fwiw... i sanded the spur, bearing and shims to ensure the glue would maintian its bond... i ahve been running all three diffs this way for some time now and have rebuilt them multiple times and have not had a sigle shim come loose...

this application works wonders for me and keeps the shim centered perfectly...

i also did this on the reflex car that i built for kevin from action and he ran the car all day at the east coast districts and loved it..

Traveler
2011.05.05, 12:13 PM
mine is with the 2.5mm bearing then.

Ooops! I used the 2mm bearing

JuniorWKR
2011.05.05, 01:35 PM
try it... you may just have to add another washer shim if you find there is still to much play... it should work fine though...

Traveler
2011.05.05, 01:41 PM
We're racing tonight, so I will through it in a diff when I get to the track. Wondering if you encountered an issue with the AWD shims. The ones I have (don't know what brand) are not perfectly flat. I didn't sand them like you did, and I wasn't sure what orientation would be best, curved out like (spur) or curved in like )spur( . Think I ended up with (spur( . Any thoughts on this?

JuniorWKR
2011.05.05, 02:44 PM
when i glued mine on i then sat them with the shim down on my pit board and then put a weight on top so when the glue dried it dried perfectly flat.. it worked perfect... then i just did the other side the same way..

Kevin S.
2011.05.05, 03:31 PM
i also did this on the reflex car that i built for kevin from action and he ran the car all day at the east coast districts and loved it..
The car that Junior built for me for the East Coast Districts at MHS is absolutely sick. I absolutely love it. It is an all Reflex Car and I couldn't have been any happier with the way he built it for me :D Thanks Junior

JuniorWKR
2011.05.05, 09:12 PM
no prob homie... glad you like it... now you know why i like my cars so much... reflex makes great products for the racer in all of us...

tr1kstanc3
2011.05.08, 09:10 AM
I used a 2mm bearing centered equally inside the spur. I then glued one 6x8mm shim to the side that is closest to the right wheel. The left qteq hub was not sanded flat to the diff ring so it prevents the spur from rubbing that side. Everything stays centered now.

I used this shim set. http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_25_1451_251/products_id/5827/n/Losi-5mm-6mm-Metric-Shim-Set

JuniorWKR
2011.05.08, 11:01 AM
aweswome.. thats great news... all my hubs where previously sanded so i used the 2.5mm bearings and the spacer on each side...