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View Full Version : Wanting to build an AWD Subaru that won't flip. Low-cost, low-maintenance.


marc
2009.08.12, 05:06 PM
Hello there. I'm thinking of getting back into the Z's and I want to do thing's right this time around.

Here is what I want. I am interested in building a race-worthy 2.4 AWD Subaru WRX STI that will not flip.
What is the cheapest way to go about doing this while utilizing the stronger blue/gray chassis kit? Are the PN sway-bars worth it, and will they prevent flipping?
I've always loved the Subaru and with the Dnano version I just purchased and should be getting tomorrow, I'd like to have a Mini-Z version of it.
I don't want a bunch of alloy, don't care too much for "bling" factor, and I want low-maintenance.
I've considered Atomic's fancy rear set-up suspension system, but look's very complicated to put together and I think their getting harder to find these day's as well.

So need lot's of advice and help here please! My previous builds have been all about looking good and that got pricey. While I like Kyosho's products, that Kyosho-spech AWD I built was also very pricey.
The best one I ever had was the most expensive one and that was Atomics AWD with the extension kit and had the Mercedes Mclaren body on it. That was very awesome, but again, very pricey.

Hope you all wonderful people can help me. I still lack a transmitter, so I would need one that can run my two Dnano's, and my future AWD. Thank you!

I have viewed EGR's web site and they have a cool picture of an RX7 FC3S with all Atomic parts on the blue/gray chassis, and look's like their sophisticated rear suspension system and white dish wheels. Look's pretty cool, but wonder how it performs. I am sure the RX7 handles very similar to Subaru?

okoye
2009.08.12, 05:09 PM
i have a sas :D. your best bet would be to build by buying cheap stock parts.

marc
2009.08.12, 05:11 PM
I don't want in boring bone-stock either. But I don't want it heavily weighed with alloy just for bling factor. I'm also not sure if I want to start from the ground up.
Perhaps if somebody could post some shopping lists, that might be helpfull.

okoye
2009.08.12, 05:13 PM
ok buy kyosho cambered knuckles. buy used stuff. when i said use stock stuff i meant like swing axles. um xspeed. uprgraded fets but keep the simple stuff cheap. look around for shafts on the boards im sure people have some laying around

marc
2009.08.12, 05:15 PM
Just saw that EGR has the latest version of the SAS in stock. But would need to save up first.

ianc
2009.08.12, 05:45 PM
don't care too much for "bling" factor

This can't be the same Marc that has posted here before. Must be some new guy...

ianc

marc
2009.08.12, 05:51 PM
HA! HA! Yea, it's me. I'm trying to build more reasonable cars without spending a fortune and then selling half off. "I SAID, I'M TRYING TO!" LOL!
Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate good looks, but I want to do it the right way this time.

Skv012a
2009.08.12, 05:53 PM
Balance the side weight and use harder tires, thats really it.

Also if you'll race race it, then get alloy for active parts, otherwise bone stock is just fine. I'd never shell $ on half the aluminum gear if I never raced Zs and seen some real damage on the track.

marc
2009.08.12, 06:08 PM
With 5,956 posts under my belt you'd think I'd know it all by now.
What do you mean by the active parts? Wheels are active, but you don't want those to bend/brake.
Suspension is active, but what parts would brake first? What cambers would prevent flipping? Are the PN sway bars worth it?

marc
2009.08.12, 06:23 PM
I've got an interesting question. Would this combination work, the Atomic SAS rear suspension system, and PN's front sway-bar kit? Will this provide the results I want?

okoye
2009.08.12, 06:38 PM
i hear the sway bar doesnt really do much i mean i have one and i used it i dont really see the difference

mk2kompressor
2009.08.12, 06:43 PM
look at tjays pnwc winning car from last year,not too much bling,just very functional and simple.
tjays awd (http://www.fastpaceracing.com/content/tjs-2008-pnwc-awd-mod-setup)

you wont need the ceramic bearings but it should give you an idea of how simple it can be:cool:

Skv012a
2009.08.12, 06:48 PM
I've got an interesting question. Would this combination work, the Atomic SAS rear suspension system, and PN's front sway-bar kit? Will this provide the results I want?
If you're not world pro level, I really don't think you'd need SAS or any other fancy suspension parts. Choose the right height, springs, and tires and you'll be good to go.


What do you mean by the active parts? Wheels are active, but you don't want those to bend/brake.
Suspension is active, but what parts would brake first? What cambers would prevent flipping?

Nothing but the motor really brakes anything, but plenty of parts break. Active parts are just that by definition- anything that actually moves and especially parts that move alot.

Cambers won't help when you're talking uneven 40+ grams of weight...

pfcparts
2009.08.12, 07:25 PM
If I was a mod, I would have banned you
for your own sake... I'm serious...

I don't think you building any new
cars is a good idea period until you
at least saved up some money for
yourself or are at least able to
use your own credit card again...

You don't need all this stuff.

You buy all this crap up marc and end
up overing yourself and selling these items
at a huge loss.

It's a nutty cycle.

It is probably good for these guys
who buy your stuff, but it isn't a
good look for you if you end up with
bad credit and nothing to show for it
other than that money hole you dug for
yourself.

I just sold you a fully modded dnano murc
at a steal and you ended up selling your
track... :( Instead of buying a starter pack
to actually use your dnano you buy
another dnano and want to upgrade that
one before you can even run the one you
already bought!!! :eek: Mind boggling.

Now you want to build a new awd... :eek:

I don't want to see you hawking this stuff
at a loss two weeks from now... Especially
if it was a car I sold to you for you as a
friend lol. :p

If I were you, I'd just I'd be content to run
those cars I have...


parts

marc
2009.08.12, 10:34 PM
Let me re-ask my original question like this.
Reflex Racing was/is very smart in providing newbies with stages for their MR02 cars. We need the same thing for the AWD and even more so since it's so pesky to fine-tune for racing. I am an amateur, I do appreciate good looks, but I want it to perform well first.
I still want to use the Subaru WRX body, but need to set up the car in such a way that it won't flip.
Let's say I start off with the very basic 2.4 ready MA010 chassis set, we all know bearings and tires go first, so what's next?
I don't want to do what Parts mentioned in buying all this expensive stuff and then selling it right off for half price.
Our local club's racing season is about to start up again and I'd like to start with a descent car.
Is there a offset that the Subaru can accommodate which will help widen its track for more stability, yet will not make it look like a low-rider? Perhaps what they call a stagard look? I think that's the term.
Anyway, I just want something simple, not showy, but will be a very good racer.

For racing season, I would like to build one GOOD AWD, and one GOOD MR02 and keep those for the entire season and enjoy'em for a long time.

Tjay
2009.08.13, 12:22 AM
Just read the title...

PN30 fronts
PN low down springs
Kyosho 20 Rears
-3 degree camber all around.
Super glued tires to the rim

Skv012a
2009.08.13, 01:11 AM
Just read the title...

PN30 fronts
PN low down springs
Kyosho 20 Rears
-3 degree camber all around.
Super glued tires to the rim

I'd say:
-30s or even 40s tires to start with,
- PN MR02 lowdown springs x2 if not just 1 set to start playing with
-Atomic shim set (do NOT get PN shims if you don't want to buy their a$$pensive knuckles because they won't fit stock nor stock-like aftermarket ones)
-0 camber to avoid spending possibly unnecessary $ at this point
-some lead tape to balance out the motor side if not just tape and a quarter or two

Action B
2009.08.13, 01:11 AM
Balance the side weight and use harder tires, thats really it.

Also if you'll race race it, then get alloy for active parts, otherwise bone stock is just fine. I'd never shell $ on half the aluminum gear if I never raced Zs and seen some real damage on the track.

Sky, your always talking about adding weight to the AWD. In my opinion, the trick to making AWD great is reducing weight. EVEN IF that means your car is less balanced. However, if you can find someone really good who actually adds 40g of weight to the side of their car let me know. I know reflex racing guys don't do that on their setups and they are supposed to be the best of the best right?

Skv012a
2009.08.13, 01:14 AM
Sky, your always talking about adding weight to the AWD. In my opinion, the trick to making AWD great is reducing weight. EVEN IF that means your car is less balanced. However, if you can find someone really good who actually adds 40g of weight to the side of their car let me know. I know reflex racing guys don't do that on their setups and they are supposed to be the best of the best right?

Who said you'd have to add 40? Adding 5-10 to the right area will do the trick since there's the motor, servo, and the board to add onto the number. I used rough battery weight to make a point. I also made plenty of threads regarding the subject, so marc will benefit greatly from using the search button ;)

mk2kompressor
2009.08.13, 04:38 AM
i dont run any added weight on mine...
40% of the rolling problem is the outer edge of the front tyres digging in when the car rolls into the bend,40% is the same with the rears and 20% is the width/body you are using.
you need to give it camber to prevent 80% of the problem from happening.
i have used atm slick r tyres(front) on some new racers cars when they havent got knuckles yet(they have a rounded sidewall)

ianc
2009.08.13, 10:56 AM
I've got a better plan for you Marc: forget about the AWD for now.

Get an 02 and race it for awhile. When you get it completely sorted and your club standing is pretty good and you feel happy after every race, then think about getting an AWD.

Concentrate on ONE thing until you get it licked, then move on to the second. Hopefully without selling the first...

ianc

marc
2009.08.13, 11:40 AM
Thank's ianc, I do plan on EVENTUALLY having both chassis just to keep thing's interesting.
Last time I raced I have won several races with my old MR02's and now I'd like to go with the AWD. I want the AWD because I like that '06 Subaru WRX so much, not sure how it'll work on the MR02 and I don't think it would be successful on the MR15, it might flip more frequently. When I built my Kyosho-spech MR15 with the Nissan Skyline body, that thing always flipped! Way too much body roll I suppose.
I just really want to learn how to properly set up a competitive AWD without spending a fortune.
The MR02 I can pretty much figure out, it's less pesky of car.

Skv012a
2009.08.13, 12:02 PM
Thank's ianc, I do plan on EVENTUALLY having both chassis just to keep thing's interesting.
Last time I raced I have won several races with my old MR02's and now I'd like to go with the AWD. I want the AWD because I like that '06 Subaru WRX so much, not sure how it'll work on the MR02 and I don't think it would be successful on the MR15, it might flip more frequently. When I built my Kyosho-spech MR15 with the Nissan Skyline body, that thing always flipped! Way too much body roll I suppose.
I just really want to learn how to properly set up a competitive AWD without spending a fortune.
The MR02 I can pretty much figure out, it's less pesky of car.

Try a true spirit of MR15- KPGC10. Besides, use the subaru on a 02, whats wrong with that?

marc
2009.08.13, 12:21 PM
Try a true spirit of MR15- KPGC10. Besides, use the subaru on a 02, whats wrong with that?

Because the real Subaru is AWD, and I want it's handling to be scale-like.

Action B
2009.08.13, 12:39 PM
i dont run any added weight on mine...
40% of the rolling problem is the outer edge of the front tyres digging in when the car rolls into the bend,40% is the same with the rears and 20% is the width/body you are using.
you need to give it camber to prevent 80% of the problem from happening.
i have used atm slick r tyres(front) on some new racers cars when they havent got knuckles yet(they have a rounded sidewall)

I think your right on the money here kompressor. This is why so many people glue down the outside edges of their tires.

marc
2009.08.13, 01:45 PM
I don't like glueing the tires on. Only way this method would work is if you have a ton of wheels with different tires on each rim. That way, when you want to change your "degree", you just simply swap wheels like real racer's do.

mk2kompressor
2009.08.13, 02:59 PM
you glue the edges of the tyres to create slip when the car rolls onto the sidewall.
it does help to glue the tyres on the rim though;)

marc
2009.08.14, 11:33 AM
Should I look into saving up for this new chassis?
Limited Edition 10th Anniversary Kyosho Mini-Z MA-010 Chassis Assembly Kit SP
Seems like my best bet instead of picking/choosing the right parts.

color01
2009.08.14, 02:35 PM
What's wrong with the stock clear chassis, bro? That's about the only thing you'll keep on it for a racer.

marc
2009.08.14, 03:41 PM
I've been reading that the blue/gray would be stronger than the clear ones which tend to crack.

Skv012a
2009.08.19, 05:46 AM
Should I look into saving up for this new chassis?
Limited Edition 10th Anniversary Kyosho Mini-Z MA-010 Chassis Assembly Kit SP
Seems like my best bet instead of picking/choosing the right parts.

Since it comes w/ ball diffs and other goods, it might actually be a decent idea. I've grown to enjoy harvesting used parts, but then you do have to think about what you're getting.

As far as gray being stronger, it is true. Clears somehow just don't hold up too well after prolonged impacts and other strains. I had to patch my smoke bucket numerous times in numerous places, so I really enjoy using the gray right now.

marc
2009.08.25, 03:14 PM
I prefer the look's of the smoked chassis, but wish it was stronger. Funny, they started off the MR02 the correct way, then gave you the optional smoked chassis/gold terminals with it. On the AWD, they reversed it. Gave you the smoked chassis stock, and gave you optional colored chassis/gold terminals. Hmmmm, what gives with that? :D

addicted
2009.09.28, 05:42 PM
yea, the blue/grey is definitely stronger, my smoked cracked where the batteries are, though i have a spare smoked if i ever want to return to it (2x smoked + 1x blue/grey)

and i think it'd be a good idea for you to get that limited edition setup, as it does come with alot of stuff you're going to upgrade anyway!